Will the Unborn of an "UNsaved Preggo" be Raptured?(Fundie Viewpoint)
Posted by kidlesskim
http://www.learnthebible.org/children-in-the-rapture.html
Here's a little more fundie Rapture trivia in honor of us all having dodged the bullet yesterday since the Rapture failed to take place as predicted. I suppose that we have a free pass, at least until December of NEXT year.
larious My traditional commentary is throughout the "sermon" in red.
Children in the Rapture
Church Lady Moo Piously Ponders:
I have a question about the rapture. I was ask by someone that if the rapture will take place and their are unsaved mothers who are pregnant and we believe that a child is saved if he does not reach yet the age of accountability. My question is "Is the child in the womb will be raptured?"Ouch! That would be pretty freaky to be nine months in pig ONE minute and then totally deflated without warning in the blinking of an eye! As usual though, women pull the short stick when it comes to Bible stuff.
Pompous Preacher Pontificates:
Actually, there are several problems concerning the rapture. No, actually there are a LOT of problems with the Rapture myth with the first one being that it isn't addressed or depicted AT ALL in The Holy Bible like it's interpreted by fundie nutcases..
People have wondered about the unborn, both of the saved and of the lost, and about the children who have not reached the age of accountability, both the children of the saved and the children of the lost. They are not saved in the technical sense. They are safe. We know that if they were to die before they lose their innocence that they would go to be with God. I have already dealt with this question on the web site. "Saved"-"Safe" WILL be going to heaven, what's the fucking difference?
However, what about the rapture? We know that the born-again believers will be taken up to be with Christ. Without a DOUBT that's common knowledge.larious But what about our young children? Probably nothing could be more horrifying for a Christian mother of young children than to think that her children could be left behind to face all the horrors of the tribulation as described in the book of Revelation while she was at peace up in heaven. Ummm, that doesn't sound much like Heaven as described then if it involves awareness of those loved ones "Left Behind". As you mention, there is also the problem of the children, born and unborn, of the lost. Will they get different treatment than that of the saved? What kind of a God holds baybees responsible for their own salvation?
Unfortunately, there is not an easy answer. I think that the children of believers are especially protected. We will deal with this first and then try to see if this applies to the children of the lost. Here are the reasons I believe the children of believing parents will be taken up at the rapture of the saints.
... and therefore kids of the UNsaved will NOT. Talk about taking the "sins of the father" to it's highest level!
This ENTIRE passage below (in bold) is preposterous. ONLY the saved parents' kids get to be raptured so therefore, the rapture talk can be a "comfort" ONLY to those parents.
The entire point of teaching the rapture is for the purpose of providing comfort. BULLSHIT! It's a scare tactic if there ever WAS one! The classic passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
. The first verse of this passage states its purpose: "that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope" (v.13). The last verse of the passage concludes, "Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (v.18). The rapture is a message of comfort. Now my reasoning is this: if the rapture did not include the young children of Christian parents, how could it be a comfort to them? They would be terrified that at any moment the Lord could come and take them away only to leave their little ones to the wiles of the antichrist and his horde. It just makes no sense at all.
Christ made a special effort to show His care and concern for children. On one occasion He declared, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:14
). How could He leave our children behind when He takes us up to heaven? I believe that He could not.
A somewhat difficult verse is found in 1 Corinthians 7:14
- "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." I have taught that this verse refers to the powerful effect that even one Christian parent can have on a home and on the children. However, if we apply this verse to the present problem, perhaps it has further meaning. Does God look on the young children of believers as holy in any real sense? Do these children have a protection that the children of lost parents do not have? I am not ready to say dogmatically, but this verse may be teaching this. At least, when considered with the points above, we can rest assured that the children of believers who have not yet reached the age of accountability will be received into heaven along with the saved parents. So, in other words he has re-written scripture to fit modern day majority where it's mostly single moos as head of household OR to include the ever so common moo goes to church for the kyds, but duddy stays home and watches football scenario. If the moos felt it was hopeless, then they wouldn't drag their kids to church and drop their WIC checks into the offering plate now would they?
m
Now, can I give the same assurances to the lost? No, I cannot. The second point above might be used to argue for them, but the other two points cannot be used for the children of the lost. In other words, the argument is much weaker for them. As far as I can tell, this is an area of information that is not revealed to us. We have to understand that God does not tell us everything. I tend to believe that they probably go up, but I have to admit that I am lacking in proof. I have to resort to the faith that is required in other sticky problems like this: "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25). So, "in other words" he doesn't think that the UNborn or the existing kids of a non believer has a snowballs' chance in hell, but never the less up above he sugar coated everything in order to keep the sheeple and their offerings rolling in.
------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!
Here's a little more fundie Rapture trivia in honor of us all having dodged the bullet yesterday since the Rapture failed to take place as predicted. I suppose that we have a free pass, at least until December of NEXT year.
larious My traditional commentary is throughout the "sermon" in red.Children in the Rapture
Church Lady Moo Piously Ponders:
I have a question about the rapture. I was ask by someone that if the rapture will take place and their are unsaved mothers who are pregnant and we believe that a child is saved if he does not reach yet the age of accountability. My question is "Is the child in the womb will be raptured?"Ouch! That would be pretty freaky to be nine months in pig ONE minute and then totally deflated without warning in the blinking of an eye! As usual though, women pull the short stick when it comes to Bible stuff.
Pompous Preacher Pontificates:
Actually, there are several problems concerning the rapture. No, actually there are a LOT of problems with the Rapture myth with the first one being that it isn't addressed or depicted AT ALL in The Holy Bible like it's interpreted by fundie nutcases..
People have wondered about the unborn, both of the saved and of the lost, and about the children who have not reached the age of accountability, both the children of the saved and the children of the lost. They are not saved in the technical sense. They are safe. We know that if they were to die before they lose their innocence that they would go to be with God. I have already dealt with this question on the web site. "Saved"-"Safe" WILL be going to heaven, what's the fucking difference?
However, what about the rapture? We know that the born-again believers will be taken up to be with Christ. Without a DOUBT that's common knowledge.
larious But what about our young children? Probably nothing could be more horrifying for a Christian mother of young children than to think that her children could be left behind to face all the horrors of the tribulation as described in the book of Revelation while she was at peace up in heaven. Ummm, that doesn't sound much like Heaven as described then if it involves awareness of those loved ones "Left Behind". As you mention, there is also the problem of the children, born and unborn, of the lost. Will they get different treatment than that of the saved? What kind of a God holds baybees responsible for their own salvation?Unfortunately, there is not an easy answer. I think that the children of believers are especially protected. We will deal with this first and then try to see if this applies to the children of the lost. Here are the reasons I believe the children of believing parents will be taken up at the rapture of the saints.
... and therefore kids of the UNsaved will NOT. Talk about taking the "sins of the father" to it's highest level!This ENTIRE passage below (in bold) is preposterous. ONLY the saved parents' kids get to be raptured so therefore, the rapture talk can be a "comfort" ONLY to those parents.
The entire point of teaching the rapture is for the purpose of providing comfort. BULLSHIT! It's a scare tactic if there ever WAS one! The classic passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
. The first verse of this passage states its purpose: "that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope" (v.13). The last verse of the passage concludes, "Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (v.18). The rapture is a message of comfort. Now my reasoning is this: if the rapture did not include the young children of Christian parents, how could it be a comfort to them? They would be terrified that at any moment the Lord could come and take them away only to leave their little ones to the wiles of the antichrist and his horde. It just makes no sense at all.
Christ made a special effort to show His care and concern for children. On one occasion He declared, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:14
). How could He leave our children behind when He takes us up to heaven? I believe that He could not.
A somewhat difficult verse is found in 1 Corinthians 7:14
- "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." I have taught that this verse refers to the powerful effect that even one Christian parent can have on a home and on the children. However, if we apply this verse to the present problem, perhaps it has further meaning. Does God look on the young children of believers as holy in any real sense? Do these children have a protection that the children of lost parents do not have? I am not ready to say dogmatically, but this verse may be teaching this. At least, when considered with the points above, we can rest assured that the children of believers who have not yet reached the age of accountability will be received into heaven along with the saved parents. So, in other words he has re-written scripture to fit modern day majority where it's mostly single moos as head of household OR to include the ever so common moo goes to church for the kyds, but duddy stays home and watches football scenario. If the moos felt it was hopeless, then they wouldn't drag their kids to church and drop their WIC checks into the offering plate now would they?
mNow, can I give the same assurances to the lost? No, I cannot. The second point above might be used to argue for them, but the other two points cannot be used for the children of the lost. In other words, the argument is much weaker for them. As far as I can tell, this is an area of information that is not revealed to us. We have to understand that God does not tell us everything. I tend to believe that they probably go up, but I have to admit that I am lacking in proof. I have to resort to the faith that is required in other sticky problems like this: "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25). So, "in other words" he doesn't think that the UNborn or the existing kids of a non believer has a snowballs' chance in hell, but never the less up above he sugar coated everything in order to keep the sheeple and their offerings rolling in.
------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/questrap.htm
Here's a staunch fundie's kid-rapture interpretation. I take this as basically SCREW the babies who couldn't POSSIBLY have known about Jeebus and allow them be abandoned by raptured parents. Leave them alone on a vile and dangerous earth to fend for themselves and raised by NON believers for SEVEN YEARS. Then they can get a chance to become saved and go to heaven. My God, all of this shit is absurd.
"......Infants are not saved and they are not in Christ; nor are they part of the church. It would be wrong to point to a living infant and say, "That baby is saved and has eternal life and his sins are forgiven!" On the contrary, every baby is born in sin and every infant has a wicked sin nature (Rom. 5:12, Psalm 51:5; Job 14:4; Psalm 58:3). Babies are not saved and they do not possess eternal life. If this were true, then does this mean that when they get older they become UN-saved and forfeit eternal life? This is Biblically absurd. It would also be absurd to say that all the unsaved children around the world growing up in Hindu and Muslim and Buddhist homes are part of the church that is in Christ.
Keep in mind that an infant that is a year old at the time of the rapture will be approximately 8 years old at the time when Christ returns to this earth to rule and reign, and thus will be certainly old enough to make a responsible decision for or against Christ at that time or even prior to that time.............."
Whether or not Christ takes infants that belong to saved parents is not revealed in the Scriptures, though it does seem reasonable to suppose that God would take such infants instead of leaving them parentless and defenseless. One thing we do know for sure is that God will do what is right (Gen. 18:25; Rom. 9:14). God is certainly far more concerned for every infant and young child (saved or unsaved) than we are...".
Oh wait! In the opening paragraph he says that baybees are doomed and then later, after making it PERFECTLY clear that Muslim and Buddhist baybees are fucked, it makes sense to him that babies of SAVED parents will likely go on up in the Rapture.
------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!
Here's a staunch fundie's kid-rapture interpretation. I take this as basically SCREW the babies who couldn't POSSIBLY have known about Jeebus and allow them be abandoned by raptured parents. Leave them alone on a vile and dangerous earth to fend for themselves and raised by NON believers for SEVEN YEARS. Then they can get a chance to become saved and go to heaven. My God, all of this shit is absurd.
"......Infants are not saved and they are not in Christ; nor are they part of the church. It would be wrong to point to a living infant and say, "That baby is saved and has eternal life and his sins are forgiven!" On the contrary, every baby is born in sin and every infant has a wicked sin nature (Rom. 5:12, Psalm 51:5; Job 14:4; Psalm 58:3). Babies are not saved and they do not possess eternal life. If this were true, then does this mean that when they get older they become UN-saved and forfeit eternal life? This is Biblically absurd. It would also be absurd to say that all the unsaved children around the world growing up in Hindu and Muslim and Buddhist homes are part of the church that is in Christ.
Keep in mind that an infant that is a year old at the time of the rapture will be approximately 8 years old at the time when Christ returns to this earth to rule and reign, and thus will be certainly old enough to make a responsible decision for or against Christ at that time or even prior to that time.............."
Whether or not Christ takes infants that belong to saved parents is not revealed in the Scriptures, though it does seem reasonable to suppose that God would take such infants instead of leaving them parentless and defenseless. One thing we do know for sure is that God will do what is right (Gen. 18:25; Rom. 9:14). God is certainly far more concerned for every infant and young child (saved or unsaved) than we are...".
Oh wait! In the opening paragraph he says that baybees are doomed and then later, after making it PERFECTLY clear that Muslim and Buddhist baybees are fucked, it makes sense to him that babies of SAVED parents will likely go on up in the Rapture.
------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!
Quote
navi8orgirl
Well, doesn't this put a crimp in the pro lifer argument about babies being babies when sperm-n-egg collide? If they won't be saved this implies they have no soul until birth. And they are not innocent at all as they are born in sin?
Talk about speaking out both sides of your mouth.
I hadn't thought of it in that light navi8orgirl, but you are correct!
winkIt's about what most of us have thought regarding pro-lifers for quite some time. They'd just as soon want that NON Christian baybees(and NON Caucasian as well) never be born or get dumped in the river like a sack full of murder evidence than they would that THESE baybees get birthed. However, when it's a WHITE CHRISTIAN baybee, then it's a whole different story, although I have heard some of them say that they want ALL baybees born and given up for adoption to a "good Christian couple". They change their stories so often, sometimes even within the same topic of conversation as depicted above, that it's difficult to know WHAT any of them actually believe. I often wonder if they even know what they believe.
------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!
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