Dear Amy: Validating the childfree

I'd sympathize if it wasn't for the fact that she had THREE kids. She couldn't figure out after the first that maybe being a mother wasn't all it was cracked up to be?

And again with the whine "I didn't know it was going to be like this!"I guess, despite the testimony of other mothers, in various forms, she thought it'd be different for her.

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Dear Amy: I felt compelled to write in after reading the letter from "Going Solo," the woman who wondered if she would regret never having children. You said that not every parent was blissfully happy with their choice.

Well, I'm a happily married mother of three, and my life is out of control.

My house is a constant mess, and a mountain of laundry is always waiting. I'm an unappreciated chauffeur, housekeeper, sports organizer and cook, and my wages are nonexistent. I signed up for this not knowing what it was truly like.

I love my children very much, but being a parent isn't the ultimate thrill of my life. It isn't even my greatest passion.

I know it sounds selfish, and it is, but I didn't realize how selfish I was until I had children. — Overwhelmed Mom

Dear Overwhelmed: Thank you for being honest about your experience.

oh jeebus. my thoughts in bold:

Dear Amy: I felt compelled to write in after reading the letter from "Going Solo," the woman who wondered if she would regret never having children. You said that not every parent was blissfully happy with their choice. here's the deal: you either have kids or you don't. pick whichever one makes more sense to you personally and go with it.

Well, I'm a happily married mother of three, and my life is out of control. whose fault is that? and something tells me she is not happily married.

My house is a constant mess, and a mountain of laundry is always waiting. I'm an unappreciated chauffeur, housekeeper, sports organizer and cook, and my wages are nonexistent. sounds like she is a SAHMoo - so why is her house a constant mess? either stay home and take care of the house like it's your job, or put the kids in daycare and get a real job.and why does she have to be appreciated? her husband is going out earning a living so she can stay home and whine about not being aappreciated - where is the appreciation for him? I signed up for this not knowing what it was truly like. really? have you lived in a cave most of your life?

I love my children very much, but being a parent isn't the ultimate thrill of my life. It isn't even my greatest passion. then get a fucking JOB already! do volunteer work! get a hobby! join a bookclub! why are these women so helpless?

I know it sounds selfish, and it is, but I didn't realize how selfish I was until I had children. yet CF are the selfish ones, right? shut up, moo and get a life.

The usual bed-made-lie for the whiny mom.

But I am stunned that Amy didn't swoop in and hustle her to the next scheduled services at the Alter of the Almighty Famblee. That's her usual m.o., after all. Amy actually let her say "Parenthood sucks for me", without challenging it or trying to band-aid anything. Wow.

Dear Amy: I felt compelled to write in after reading the letter from "Going Solo," the woman who wondered if she would regret never having children. You said that not every parent was blissfully happy with their choice. I'd wager MOST parents aren't happy with their choice. I don't know and have never known ANY parent, my own included, who weren't outwardly looking forward to when their kids moved out. I can't imagine I am the only one who has noticed this because it isn't like anyone keeps it a secret. She just CHOSE to bury her head in the sand and I can only guess the attention and festivities surrounding the pregnancies and births was just too tempting for her to pass up.:bayybee:bal

Well, I'm a happily married mother of three, and my life is out of control. Riiight. As usual they are transparently deceptive when they purposely add in the adjective, "happily" when describing their marriage, quickly followed.up by all the reasons they are NOT "happy". Besides, if someone's entire life is "out of control" there isn't any aspect that can be remotely considered, "happy". Chaos is not an indicator of happiness in any scenario.

My house is a constant mess, and a mountain of laundry is always waiting. Then she's a failure at being a stay at home moo! We know she has at LEAST 7 or 8 hours in the day when the kids are in school and the husband is at work to do housework. There is NO REASON, none at all, she can't have that house in pristine condition BEFORE noon on any given day, leaving her an additional 3-4 hours for errands, personal grooming or exercise, and meal planning. This cow is simply woefully unorganized, like MOST stay at home Moos.

I'm an unappreciated chauffeur, housekeeper, sports organizer and cook, and my wages are nonexistent. I signed up for this not knowing what it was truly like. Like Myrna says, WHY this need for "appreciation". It's a mystery to me WHY these unemployed cows always seem to NEED this validation of their worthiness and pats on the backs from the kids and husband. It's common knowledge kids expect Moo to do for them and why SHOULDN'T they be doing their jobs without the constant need for praise? Does she give her husband praise for earning their living? Shouldn't a well organized life and happy kids and a husband be enough? I keep MY house clean and organized and always have, FOR ME. ***I*** like and enjoy organization and that my husbands always have seemed to enjoy the side effects of my organizational skills, planning ahead, and things running smoothly is a bonus.

She KNEW IN ADVANCE this wasn't a paid position, a greatly unappreciated "job", and EVERYONE knows this, so I fail to see how she could NOT have known what it was truly like.

I love my children very much, but being a parent isn't the ultimate thrill of my life. It isn't even my greatest passion. I get so sick of them qualifying every complaint with,"BUT I LOVE MY CHILDREN!". Any time a Moo prefaces a statement with, "I love my children but", or, "I wouldn't trade my kids for anything in the world, but...." we can just about guess a complaint will follow. For some reason they seem to believe if they say one of those type things regarding professing their unconditional love, it will somehow cancel out the fact what they are about to say contradicts that claim. If parenting was among her "greatest passions", then she'd be in the minority. It's by and large a thankless position and for good reasons that include, the kid didn't ask to be born, it's her duty to adequately provide her offspring with care, she has no other "job" with which to occupy her time and take up her energy, and she entered into it voluntarily when she could have avoided it entirely!:bedmadelie

I know it sounds selfish, and it is, but I didn't realize how selfish I was until I had children. — Overwhelmed Mom They ALWAYS say, "I know this sounds selfish" and I think they say it for several reasons which include the following:

1)They think they are COMPLETELY selfLESS for gracing the world with their kids, but that by saying they think they are selfish then people will jump in with, "NO YOU ARE NOT SELFISH, anything but! Look at all you DO for your famblee!"

2)They think by saying that they are absolving themselves of blame for a chaotic disaster of their own making. "I know I sound selfish, and being the sainted cow I am, I am doing the best I can! PLEASE validate my feelings of being overwhelmed and tell me it isn't my own fault my house looks like an episode of Hoarders!"

3)They are distancing themselves from what they believe are the TRUE selfish people, which of course would be us mean, selfish, and childless people.

4)They are fishing for compliments, much like when someone who looks like a million dollars says, "I know I must look a mess!" or when a someone with a spotless home, but with one dish in the sink says, "Please overlook the mess!" when someone stops in for a visit. What they want to hear is how they or their house looks wonderful, how horribly messy or disheveled the other person is, or enjoy hearing things like, "You ALWAYS look great and your housekeeping skills are stellar!" I KNOW when my house or I look good, which is about 95% of the time, so I don't feel any desire to fish for compliments because I don't NEED them.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Elsewhere -

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-26/features/ct-ae-0826-amy-20120826_1_elder-abuse-minimum-wage-life-dad

- the LW also says:

"their ages are 13, 9 and 7."

In other words, they're old enough to be pitching in and then some.

John Rosemond has said more than once that when he was three - yes, three - his mother had him washing floors. Of course, he wouldn't have done it very well at the time, but clearly the point was to get him USED to going through those social motions, uncomplainingly, that would be good for him - and for his divorced mother - as early as possible. (Not to mention the need to have him forget, ASAP, that there was ever a time when he didn't have to do unpaid work that benefitted the whole FAMILY, as opposed to practicing at music or sports, which only benefit the kid!)

I really don't understand it when people say their laundry is piling up. This isn't 1900, you don't have to go down to the creek and beat your laundry against a rock to wash it. Throw the shit in the washer, then the dryer. Fold it while you watch tv, make your kids fold it while they watch tv. Folding laundry takes mere minutes, the most time consuming is the socks. If you can't sit on your ass and fold laundry, you need to take yourself down to the creek and beat your head against the rocks.

My laundry piles up, but that is because I am lazy and spend all my quarters playing pinball.

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mistress rotwang
My laundry piles up, but that is because I am lazy and spend all my quarters playing pinball.

I should clarify that I am referring to the people who don't have to go to the laundromat, because I would probably be drowning in dirty laundry if I didn't have a washer and dryer at home.

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badgersqueaks

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mistress rotwang
My laundry piles up, but that is because I am lazy and spend all my quarters playing pinball.

I should clarify that I am referring to the people who don't have to go to the laundromat, because I would probably be drowning in dirty laundry if I didn't have a washer and dryer at home.

I hate the fucking laundromat. My next place will have washer and dryer included. When I have convienent access to clothes cleaning machines I go overboard with them and wind up doing loads of one sock, a pair of jeans, three shirts, and a clean pair of underwear every day...

Mistress Rotwang said, "My laundry piles up, but that is because I am lazy and spend all my quarters playing pinball."

Pinball? Where on earth is there still a machine?

I'm an old (yes, I am old, shaddup ) pinball player. No machines anywhere around my way any more, and I miss them terribly. Video games just don't cut it.

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kman
Mistress Rotwang said, "My laundry piles up, but that is because I am lazy and spend all my quarters playing pinball."

Pinball? Where on earth is there still a machine?

I'm an old (yes, I am old, shaddup ) pinball player. No machines anywhere around my way any more, and I miss them terribly. Video games just don't cut it.

The sub shop in the small town where I go to college. Any arcade.

I plan on renting one when I get enough money and switch them out every few months when I kill all of the records. One of the perks of being CF.

I'm just glad there is more stuff out in the media that supports our POV

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mistress rotwang

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badgersqueaks

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mistress rotwang
My laundry piles up, but that is because I am lazy and spend all my quarters playing pinball.

I should clarify that I am referring to the people who don't have to go to the laundromat, because I would probably be drowning in dirty laundry if I didn't have a washer and dryer at home.

I hate the fucking laundromat. My next place will have washer and dryer included. When I have convienent access to clothes cleaning machines I go overboard with them and wind up doing loads of one sock, a pair of jeans, three shirts, and a clean pair of underwear every day...

For Future Reference -- we rent a washer and dryer. We live in an apartment and found out we save ten bucks a month by renting than going to the laundromat. Plus, they're right there when we need them. We can always throw in a load of towels, cook supper, and fold them later while listening to John Coltrane on the stereo, laughing at how the cats found the towels first. Ours come from Azuma Rentals for $34 a month, together. They fix them, too.

It is my opinion that these women end up in this kind of situation, because they live their lives with zero self awareness. How anyone can have even one child without taking some time out to question their motives behind that choice is beyond me, and yet I've seen intelligent women with so much potential fuck up their own lives beyond repair without even giving it a second thought. down

Case in point is my sister. My twin sister. I watched her have not one, not two, not three, but five kids in less than seven years. I'll admit that one of my main reasons for not having kids was financial in the early years, but I pretty soon realized that money problems was a convenient excuse for not spawning; it was a 'legitimate' and 'responsible' reason I could give for not having babies. From the very start though, before I could even articulate my childfreedom, I did worry about the kind of mother I would make. I'd never spent time around small kids or babies while I was growing up, so my first real contact with them came from my best friend having kids and my sister's kids. Watching their pregnancies progress and learning about childbirth did absolutely nothing to endear the process to me. Instead the thought of having to go through that made me so anxious that I nearly had a breakdown when my husband and his parents put pressure on me to get pregnant more than a decade ago.

At that point I was still thoroughly indoctrinated and I tried so hard to come to a point where I could find that 'inevitable' part of life appealing. It just didn't work. Every second I spent with my friend, staring into her daughter's wailing, red face; every time I saw my sister mindlessly scream at her kids, I had the same thought - that will not be me! I had absolutely no interest in spending years of my life cleaning up diapers, vomit and snot. When I started articulating these thoughts, I took so much flack from, well, everyone! Every single bingo you can imagine came my way. To this day my friend still believes - and tells me to my face - that she knows me better than I know myself and that I will be a great mom someday. eyes2

My sister on the other hand, while having similar emotional (and I dare say psychological) issues to mine as a result of unrelenting verbal, physical and emotional abuse for the first 20 years of our lives, launched herself into motherhood without a second thought. At that time she'd finally attained the university spot she'd been working towards for five years, but she threw it away in favor of becoming a SAHM. I do understand her reasons for it up to a certain point - it was easier to commit to an unchallenging, predictable life than going out into the big, bad world and facing the possibility of failure. I understand it, because I've lived it, giving up work to become a housewife almost six years ago. My home is familiar. It's safe. I don't have to live up to anyone's expectations, because there are none.

In the past year I've been changing. I'm ready for a new direction and a new challenge. I can no longer justify squandering my life, hiding away from the world. My husband and I talked it over and we're both going back to school next year. My goal? A doctorate in psychology by the time I'm 40. Although incredibly scared, I'm also so damn excited to get started! ongue2

My sister, on the other hand, has denied herself any such opportunity not only by having five kids, 8 years old and under, but also by buying into concepts sold on the mommy forums like attachment parenting, exclusive breast feeding, elimination training and homeschooling. For years I was the villain because I suggested her life would be easier if she just sent her kids to school. For years I was accused of abusing her kids because of my intolerance towards their feral behavior, when she was the one who regularly freaked out and left bruises all over them. Nothing but projection. I truly feel that the mommy forums as a whole is nothing more than a brainwashing vortex, sucking in vulnerable, insecure women and spitting out raging, entitled momzillas. That is what I saw my sister become. There is nothing left of the woman she used to be.

I haven't been in contact with my sister for going on two years now, but there are a few things I'm certain of. If she's not pregnant again, she will be soon. With every child she has, she expects an emotional void to be filled and she can never quite understand why it only gets worse with every child added to the family. She still resents her kids and hates her life, beats herself up and wallows in self loathing, because she simply can't live up to the idea she has of what her life is supposed to be like. Her solution is to alienate her family and 'real life' friends (because the only ones who could possibly understand are her mommy forum pals), accusing us of causing all her problems. She has zero accountability in her own life. Zero accountability and zero self awareness, which causes her to sentence herself to a life of unrelenting drudgery for the foreseeable future, a life from which there is no escape. :headbrick

Sorry if this is way too long and/or doesn't make any sense. I guess I've been waiting to get it out of my system for a long time.

Wow ruby, your sister sounds like a hot mess. I am so glad that you had the intelligence and foresight to avoid the entire breeder-drama, and pursue your goals and dreams. That's what being CF is all about. The world is YOUR oyster.

You can do whatever you want, whenever you want. Your freedom, your life, your home and your marriage belongs to you and your partner. No shrieking, demanding children to deal with on a daily basis.

I hear screaming brats all around me; whether I'm out and about, or just on my patio, trying to relax with a smoke and glass of wine. I feel so damned lucky that I don't have to deal with it. If I want to, I can go inside and close the door.

Never will that be the life of a CFer. Never will the burden, stress and depression of child-rearing plague us. Nothing is more validating to us CFers than breeders themselves. They are the greatest validation that we can get for our own lifestyle choice. We made the better decision, and they know it. I think that's why they try every which way imaginable to try to lure us over to the dark side.

Ruby, how AWFUL you had to watch your twin self destruct like that after drinking the Koolaid! I am so glad for you to have been able to persevere and not follow her into that hellhole. It sounds like you consciously made the choice to not become a slave to the White Picket Fence Moo Fantasy™ of a knight in shining armor, happy famblee, sparkling McMansion, endless Tupperware parties, and a lifetime of bliss that nearly ALWAYS ends up with a slob in a dirty t-shirt, a bunch of thankless wailing kids, and a house that belongs on the hoarders show, :smn

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

@ mumofsixbirds and kidlesskim

I truly believe that the big decisions we make in life should be made based on a thorough understanding of who we are as individuals. I got married at 21, a decision I struggled with for a long time, but my husband and I worked through it and we're now happier than ever, approaching our 12th wedding anniversary. We're looking forward to the prospect of broadening our horizons through study and, quite possibly, traveling abroad within the next few years.

I have no doubt that I would have been miserable if I'd followed the same path as my sister and everyone else I know. I'm the only childfree person I know (my husband is still on the fence) and have been fielding accusations of selfishness and abnormality my entire adult life. I never considered myself a strong person, but now that I'm older I can look back and see that I possess and possessed more strength of character than I ever thought possible, being able to withstand that constant, unrelenting bullying from everyone I know. I'm happy with my choices and who I am, something I never thought I'd be able to say.

I believe if my sister had put any real thought into what it takes to be a good parent, she would have realized that she wasn't suited to the task. Instead she keeps making the same mistake over and over again, each time expecting a different result.

Why these moms need constant praise is baffling. I mean, I like praise and I love being recognized for a job well done, but it isn't a daily requirement for me, and I can get along just fine without it. I don't need to be validated for every thing I do, and these moms really don't either, not that they see it that way.

I also don't get all the millions of blogs these moos write about how hard it is, and how no one appreciates what they do and blah, blah,blah. Listen, honey, don't bitch to me about how fucking hard your life is when you drive a Cadillac Escalade and wear $300 shoes, because I will not be sympathetic to your non existent plight. Your kids are hellions because you made them that way,with your preposterous gentle parenting and allowing the little bastards to get away with every bad behavior unfpder the sun because you think it's important that they express themselves. You made this bed for yourself, so quit bitching about it.

WTF do they do all day when the kids are at school? 7 hours seems like plenty of time to do laundry and catch up with household chores. A mani-pedi takes, what, an hour, tops?