Another fundie who doesn't understand the reason for adoption.

So, I was reading up on childfree articles (bored as I'll get out), and then I stumbled on this little gem where mom-body pride is rampant, and apparently Jillian Michaels is somehow lacking in some sort of quality because she chose to adopt instead of ruining her body with childbearing, because you know, looking good is how she makes her living and losing that for a baby is preferable in No Logic Land. The writer then goes on to tout Christian shit about how babies are sanctifying and insinuating that adoption is less-than. I figured I would have some fun with it. I mean, loving your body is one thing, but putting down adoption? That's just insane. Here's the URL: http://katewicker.com/2010/04/i-almost-heart-my-mom-bod.html

And here's another gem on her site about how us childfree are fearful of life and this is why we don't have kids. I mention it because I referenced that post in the response to the one mentioned above. And that URL is: http://katewicker.com/2013/09/why-i-might-have-chosen-the-child-free-life.html

And here's what I posted:

"I feel that the response to Jillian Michael’s thoughts was not the best way to handle that. I feel that Jillian Michaels was doing a truly selfless act by not creating more of HER and choosing to improve a life of another person that she had no hand in creating. Sure, body image discussions might be a little vain, but I feel that her vanity has the chance to uplift a child without a home and family, which is more than mothers with biological children can say. Her ends most certainly justify her means in this case. It doesn’t matter why she’s adopting, she’s adopting! I even think it’s better because she is able to have children but won’t. She denying herself a supposedly “blessed” thing, to serve another person! Christians everywhere should laud her.

It is vastly irresponsible, as Christians, to laud producing more children when we can’t even give the ones that already exist a home when they have none. Until we can look up from our gonads and see that life is more than just our ability to produce children and criticize the physical worldview of a fitness icon, then we will never become what Christ wanted us to be. Until a parent can forgo the “joy” of producing children and do what’s right, even when it doesn’t serve them the same feelings, I won’t accept their self-imposed sainthood. It simply makes no sense for a Christian to forsake the orphans of the world for their own bliss. It’s denying actual self-sacrifice. It’s saying, “you aren’t of my loins and are therefore worthless to me”. That’s truly a sadder sentiment, at least from my perspective.

Jillian Michael’s decision to adopt is just simply superior, objectively and morally, to overlooking the ones in need in favor of self-serving propagation. I won’t say that parents are inherently selfish, because anything a person does for themselves, whether having kids or no, is selfish. I’m not having children because I’m following in Christ’s footsteps (another childless man, perhaps he was fearful?) the best I can, and I am skeptical that he would have been able to do all the wondrous things he did if he had to pick Timmy up from soccer practice.
I’ve always seen children as more of a stumbling block to self-sacrifice, as I’ve heard many parents say they can’t donate/volunteer/die for a cause because… Kids. They can’t help anyone but their kids usually, not always because they don’t want to, but because they usually can’t. Parents simply can’t do as much for the world beyond their households because they have prior obligations. Their world, as I’m sure you can attest to, shrinks.

I thought that perhaps you could use another perspective of child-freedom while I was here. While us Child-free people don’t have kids, just know that if everyone had them, the world would probably be a considerably harsher place. Please ponder that, and recognize that while not everyone has children, those who don’t aren’t guaranteed to be grappling with pettiness. As fear is of no concern to me. Thank you for your time. For what’s its worth I think you’re an excellent writer."

Man, I love to hit fundies where it hurts. :yeah :satan

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So.. We know that food and water are running out, with overpopulation and all... Yet people keep on poppin' out those babies! I guess they want to have their baby and eat it too...

My top reason is that parenting gives you a free license to be selfish based purely on the fact that you're being selfish for an emanation of your own self. The illusion that what you do to benefit your children benefits them solely is a fallacy. Every parent benefits from the benefits that their children receive. Henceforth, it gives one a license to perpetuate a dog-eat-dog mentality that I perceive to be amoral. Parents say that their children are their greatest loves, what they forget to add is that they are their ONLY loves and only because their children are a reflection of themselves. I prefer to be able to love multiple people and have lasting relationships of many types and possess the essential core value of empathy for all than to restrict myself to an echo chamber of ego-masturbation and self-serving chicanery.

In short: Not parenting makes you a better person.

I agree 100%. It's actually the reason why I don't want kids - at least a big part of it. My career goals are humanitarian-based, and I will support causes I care about, both in person and financially. I don't want to say "Oh, I had big thoughts about the world once...but life happened, tee hee!" No thanks. I also value friendship tremendously, and don't want to turn into one of those people who doesn't give a shit about anyone besides their flesh and blood.
I've decided too that, if somehow an alien takes over my brain and makes me non-cf when I'm waaay later in life (I am not a fence-sitter: this is hypothetical for the sake of discussion) then I'd adopt. Part of it's the childbirth issues, part of it is that I hate dealing with babies, but a biggest part is that I'd rather improve the lives of people who are here, and help give an existing person a future, than create a new person and only care about them.

As an adoptee... I concur !

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starlady
As an adoptee... I concur !

What starlady said.

I'm a bit foggy here, but doesn't God in the New Testament mention something about if He wanted/needed more 'sons of Abraham' He make the rocks sprout them. That is, the dominant theme seems to be (spiritual) adoption, and no longer did it have to be blood lineage. (Catharsis, you might remember better then I might. )

Plus, Adam had babies with Eve, Jesus didn't, and He's considered the 'new Adam' by Christians. So I don't know why this thing of having babies is still pushed so hard, when even God (by His example) says it's not necessary.

Another adoptee chiming in here, these people can go fuck themselves with a hot curling iron. Would they rather the unwanted babies or orphans to end up in the system, possibly with horrible and abusive foster parents and all other manner of newsworthy horrors?

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nightfire
I'm a bit foggy here, but doesn't God in the New Testament mention something about if He wanted/needed more 'sons of Abraham' He make the rocks sprout them. That is, the dominant theme seems to be (spiritual) adoption, and no longer did it have to be blood lineage. (Catharsis, you might remember better then I might. )

Plus, Adam had babies with Eve, Jesus didn't, and He's considered the 'new Adam' by Christians. So I don't know why this thing of having babies is still pushed so hard, when even God (by His example) says it's not necessary.

Yup. For reference that's Matthew 3:8-9. But context might be an issue, as it doesn't mention childbearing, but the idea is certainly generalizable if meditated on further. It's interesting so I'm probably going to do that! This concept is also spoken about by the apostle Paul (marriage free and childfree), who wrote most of the New Testament.

On the question, I feel that people are asked to have children because it stunts spiritual growth, the ability to think for oneself and grow their faith ("broad is the way" and all that jazz). Christians often believe that the world is at odds with their religion, and this is the one time I would bet that that were true. But this is stymying because of the rampant existence of false Christians, and the fact that true Christianity has pretty much been lost. The fact that wisdom is almost looked down upon in our society, be it secular or inspired by faith is possibly a symptom of this.

Many who say they follow Christ don't actually do so. They follow the law because it requires little thought while actual intellectual reconciliation is required to discover a comfortable lifestyle that relies on faith. As some may know, being a "good person" doesn't help much in the "getting to heaven" category. But I would also argue that if a person is only a Christian to get to heaven or establish a moral code of living, then that's not only morally deficient (it's taking, but not reciprocating) but also belies a lack of imagination.

Wasn't Moses adopted?

So Jesus says something to the effect of meeting the wrath of God if you hurt little ones, and a lady with a shit-load of money adopts an orphan to give that kid a great life, and the Christofascists need a Waaaambulance?

If these fruit-cakes would learn about their own religion it would help society a LOT1

Moses was indeed adopted, by the pharaoh' wife. As well as Christ (in a way) as Joseph knew that he wasn't his. Yet he raised him anyway. And crazy old crone, you've got no idea how much I agree with you, as the supposed point of being a Christian was to help others and make life less shitty. People drive me nuts anymore.

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So.. We know that food and water are running out, with overpopulation and all... Yet people keep on poppin' out those babies! I guess they want to have their baby and eat it too...

My top reason is that parenting gives you a free license to be selfish based purely on the fact that you're being selfish for an emanation of your own self. The illusion that what you do to benefit your children benefits them solely is a fallacy. Every parent benefits from the benefits that their children receive. Henceforth, it gives one a license to perpetuate a dog-eat-dog mentality that I perceive to be amoral. Parents say that their children are their greatest loves, what they forget to add is that they are their ONLY loves and only because their children are a reflection of themselves. I prefer to be able to love multiple people and have lasting relationships of many types and possess the essential core value of empathy for all than to restrict myself to an echo chamber of ego-masturbation and self-serving chicanery.

In short: Not parenting makes you a better person.

The only thing fundies give a fuck about is themselves and their church coffers. They don't actually give a shit about anything Jesus said or did, they make it up as they go along.

Of all the good Christian things to do, I would have thought adoption was pretty high on the list, but nooo, if you adopt, that kyd hasn't had x number of generations being indoctrinated, so it stands less of a chance of being a future Soldier of Gawd.

Yet another adoptee here. My adoptive parents weren't perfect by a long shot, but they did give me educational and cultural/travel advantages that my birth parents would never have given me, even if they could have. My life is definitely better for having been taken from my bio-"parents" and then having been adopted.

As for Jillian Michaels, she could have chosen not to adopt (and still kept her body in shape) but she decided to reach out to another human being in need of help...I consider that a great thing. Kudos to her and any people who decide to do the same. A lot of needy kids out there in need of loving nurturing parents.

These "Christian" cows don't know what they're talking about.

The only reason these cows are mad is because Jillian Michaels chose to keep her body and adopt. They're all pissed off that they sluiced and ended up with 'tiger stripes' and vassholes.

I remember when she first announced that she was thinking about adopting - I was over at another forum, the late TWoP - and the cows over there were absolutely raging over it. At the time, she was also very open about having a disorder (PCOS? Endo? something like that) that basically meant that she would have to go through tons of medical treatments to get inpig. She made a offhand comment about "not wanting to put her body through that" - and that set the moos lowing. The number of people that called her selfish, vain, and egotistical blew my mind. The number that insisted that she couldn't possibly have a disorder because she "looked fine" made me dumbstruck. Apparently only their spaychul sneauxphalxes are allowed to have "invisible" disorders.

While it (obviously) wouldn't be my choice to adopt, I applaud her for doing it instead of fucking up her health for the all-mighty pignasty attention whoring "experience". I think it just pisses the cows off that she cares more about actually raising a kyd than getting attention for an expanding gut. Being able to keep her figure is a plus (but FWIW, I don't think that's primarily why she chose to adopt).

She seems like an all around good person, and most people who have been around her IRL seem to love her, even if she's not the kind of trainer that I would work well with. And anything and anyone that pisses the self righteous moos off gets a thumbs up from me (for that at least).

That fundies are whining about her choice doesn't faze me at all. According to the fundie churches around here, all women are good for are breeding Gawd's army like livestock. A woman having a career that focuses on health and being educated about health and looking good is sacrilegious in so many ways. Following Jesus doesn't factor into it at all.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde

Whatever, yo. Her exercise videos fucking work. Maybe the cows should get off the Internet, spend the $7 one one of her DVDs, and actually follow them. The 30-Day Shred takes no more than 30 minutes out of your day; a "bizzy mawm" can spare 30 minutes. It'll cut into her Facebook time, but that's a sacrifice she can make.

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

paragon schnitzophonic I love her DVDs - especially the two strength training ones she has aimed at beginners. I wouldn't want her as an actual trainer day-to-day I don't think, but her DVDs are the bomb. I didn't even make it though the first circuit for 30-Day Shred though. That one is monstrous. However, I am really out of shape, cardio-wise, so it's my goal right now to be able to do the entire DVD program some time this year.

I really don't think that these 'bizzy mawms' actually want to put forth the effort into looking good. They have excuses ready constantly, and we all know that if they really wanted to look better, they could start with a shower. They can't even manage that. I think somewhere inside, they like being filthy overweight cows because they can use it to get udder rubs about how 'self sacrificing' they are.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde

Bottom line- these cows are jealous harpies.

They can scream their religious bullshit all they want, but what it comes down to is these moos never got past their bitchy highschool mentality.

Jillian looks awesome and they hate her for it.

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I miss my little feather baby.