Dear Abby: I'm a male oopser; my daughter is suffering because of that; but I'm not really the bad-BAD guy in this

WTF does this guy want? Sympathy? Hell-to-the-fuck no

Where was he when his daughter was being bullied to escalate her education and get out the house? Or when her financial support was pulled? He says she feels unwanted by her mother - well, it doesn't seem as if he has stepped up to bat. Oh, and he knows that he did wrong in oopsing his wife, but it's wonderful that his daughter exists because of her feelings toward him. Talk about a freaking narcissist.

Gawd! Both parents ought to be painted with honey, staked out in the desert and have a jar of ants poured on them. They're both so self-absorbed in how this child's existence affects them, while the duhd is trying to act rueful about what he did while painting his ex-wife as the more dastardly one in this situation.

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DEAR ABBY: My youngest daughter, "Lizzy," the sweetest and most conscientious of my children, has been cut off yet again by her mother, "Ruth." Ruth pressured Lizzy to graduate from high school a year early because she couldn't date with a child still at home. (Her words.) After graduation, Lizzy was shipped off to another state for college, then abandoned to find her own funding for continued education.

Lizzy feels unwanted by her mother and desperately wants to know why. The truth is, Ruth didn't want that pregnancy in the first place and has held it against Lizzy. The deeper truth is I wanted another child and deliberately got Ruth pregnant. I never told anyone, even after Ruth divorced me several years later. As far as I know, she has always accepted it as accidental.

What I did was wrong, yet I can't imagine a world without my daughter in it. Lizzy is the only one of my children who has become close to me since the divorce. The others all believe their mother's lies about me -- that I cheated on her, which is the opposite of what really happened.

Should I share the truth about her birth with my daughter? I'm not sure because I have always believed it is a major mistake to admit to a child of any age that their pregnancy was a surprise, let alone that it was unwanted. Two of my siblings weren't planned, and one of them has become a bitter and distant adult. I want to help my daughter understand and accept her mother's insane actions and get on with her own life. What should I do? -- GUILT-RIDDEN DAD

DEAR GUILT-RIDDEN: Lizzy already has a pretty good idea that she wasn't wanted, and I wouldn't be surprised if her mother hasn't told her she was a "surprise" baby. Do not try to expiate your feelings of guilt by telling your daughter what you have told me. That is a discussion you should have with your confessor, not your child.

It may take a therapist to help Lizzy forgive her mother and get on with her life. What you should do is pay for at least half of her therapy and contribute toward her education.

FREAKSHOW!!!!!

I'm sure he never cheated on his wife, nuh-uh. He's a saint. A real family man.

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also I am not looking for a women with kids or diseases herpes or any other sexual deceases

If he wanted this child so bad, then why is she living with her mother? It's rather crazy to oops someone because HE wanted it, yet SHE is taking up the mother duties (even if begrudgingly). I thought we were past the 50's. I believe that if YOU want it born, then YOU take care of it!


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The title of "good parent" doesnt come freely from me. If you choose to dabble in creating new life, then my opinions of your actions will be harsher and my praise will be harder to elicit. It's a tradeoff. If you are foolhardy and shortsighted enough to try your hand at playing God, you best be willing to live up to the expectations that come with such a station. Hopefully you'll find SOME relief in your contention, as I have yet to see a generation who has...
Godspeed, Catharsist

When I read this quote from FB:
"U know the Devil is soooooooool busy! Hes trying evrything he can to spread his NASTINESS...... but u know what i say......HOLYGHOST FIRE!!!! IN JESUS NAME AMEN."
I LOL every time.

My ex H tried to oops me. That's when I got right the fuck out of there!

I got some flak, too - from my $ obsessed family - he had $.

Yeah he could choke on his $ for all I cared - I am NOT having kids!!!

Once he pulled the attempted oopses on me I was OUT!

It started with talking about others' kids. Then, more talk, wheedling / attempting to coerce me (KNOWING I was CF from DAY ONE - and - agreeing to that) - but he had a hidden agenda all along and even admitted to me "I thought you'd change your mind" ^TM.

The final straw was when he began slipping off the plastic. Caught him doing this. And one time - he even forced himself on me, sans condom.

And that was the last time.

I was just thinking about this today actually. Was feeling kinda blue from PMS and lack of sleep. I said to myself - just think - you *could be* with the ex and stuck with kids - imagine how crappy THAT would be!

And it cheered me right up!

Yes I know - regarding my remark here of 'stuck with kids' that I surely could have an abortion. But - he went so far as to threaten me - that he would do everything to prevent that and 'take me to court' even. How that would be of benefit, I don't know. But he was so adamant about the scenario (potential pregnancy) and how badly that mattered - I feared he'd even try to lock me up or something!

And - both families were on HIS side - they would have leaned on me mercilessly to bust the loaf.

THANK FUCK! I kept my wits about me and got hell AWAY from him!!!

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Miss_Hannigan
FREAKSHOW!!!!!

I'm sure he never cheated on his wife, nuh-uh. He's a saint. A real family man.

Quoted for the fucking truth.

He deceived his wife into pregnancy and childrearing (she should have aborted but I can see how a married woman who already had kids and whose husband was putting extreme pressure on her would defer) but he wants everyone to know he's not a cheater!

That's like Gary Ridgway getting upset at investigators when they accused him of rape. He's a serial killer but NOT A RAPIST!!!!11!

If someone is THIS insane to breed, why don't they choose someone who WANTS to? Isn't that the path of least resistance anyway??

That's horrible, Zzelda. Fortunately you got out of that hell-hole.

Where the hell was he while his daughter was going through all of this? Behind a glass, pressing his nose up against it and saying 'oh but i love you, I don't know what to do'? Fucking asshole. He went through all of that bullshit of knocking up the unwilling mother but doesn't want to put in the work of raising the damn child?

@Zzelda, wow he sounds like a fucking nut. I don't know what exactly taking you to court would have done - if abortion is legal, then there's no way a man can legally force you to stay pregnant. Glad you got away from him because someone who makes bullshit threats and finds out those threats are meaningless will figure out much worse things to do on their own.

And as with any oops, I don't know what the idiot writer is trying to accomplish by writing this. Moo has made it very abundantly clear to the daughter that she was not wanted and I'm sure she doesn't need Duh telling her he deliberately knocked Moo up. The daughter might actually have a good relationship with Duh - I'm not sure. But if he tells her that she exists (in what sounds like a shitty childhood and current life) because he was a selfish bastard, she will probably never speak to him again. And I wouldn't blame her. Both the parents are at fault - Duh for deceiving his wife and Moo for keeping a pregnancy she did not want. The less you want to have a kid, the more you will resent it if you give birth to it, and it's not fair for a kid to grow up getting treated like dirt because its parents have shit for brains.

I hope the girl disowns both her parents.

Ranty CF goodness (updated 3.23.2012)
Caffeinated Childfree

Thanks for the thoughts guys

Pretty sad to be raped by your own husband. I still have a hard time thinking of it like this though, because we were 'in the middle of things' - where the pressure / force started was when he refused to use the condom and shoved it in anyway. Despite my protests.

It is hard to view this as 'rape' with voluntary sex and you (I) had gone that far.

But it is, though.

It is not what I wanted and I told him to stop. (Or put the condom on.)

I am glad I realized this. No one should force you to do anything against your will.

And what he was trying to force was - impregnating me against my will. I had no aversion to sex - it was the unprotected part I protested.
And he ignored. And literally held me down and forced himself on me.

Bad memories

I hate to even talk about this, it disturbs me - but - I do feel I should so as to help others.

NO MEANS NO!

Even if you willingly fuck someone - if they force some act upon you - this is wrong.

And a person who does care about you would NEVER do such a thing. Never do anything for their own wants if you say NO. No matter what the act. I know a girl who got anally raped by a BF - she always said NO to that - but then he just went ahead and forced her.

These things ARE rape.

I want to say this so others will stop and think, too.

Do not stay with a person like this! You might be confused and think it's kind of a grey area or something since you do have sex with the person.

But it is NOT OK for *anyone* to force you to do *anything* you say NO! to!

You don't force others to do *anything*. Sex or *any other thing*. Don't be blinded by 'grey areas' either - on any subject.

Not an easy thing for me to talk about, but I wanted to say a bit more because it might help others.

Thank you for your courage to share, Zzelda.
I do not watch "Family Guy" because it has too much violence that is supposed to be funny. I do not find it funny. I do not care if it is a cartoon. It's the idea of the violence being presented in a so-called funny way to make it acceptable. It's not.

Wow Zzelda, I'm so glad you got out of that horrible, toxic relationship!

I'm with you a hundred percent, when a person says, "No" it means NO. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if a person was willing to have sex in the beginning....if they change their mind, or don't wish to participate in a certain act, then it's no longer consentual.

I've been through sexual abuse, and I talk about it because I think it can help others come to terms with it. Sadly, it's so commonplace nowadays. So many people being abused in this heinous manner.

It doesn't matter if it's a husband, wife, friend or stranger. Rape is rape.

You have gone on and become a successful biz gal, and done great things with yourself! You are an awesomely strong woman and you should be proud of yourself for that. You didn't need that jerk....or his loaf in order to find happiness. You have managed to create a beautiful life for yourself, without those burdens.

Congratulations for those accomplishments girlie!

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If he wanted this child so bad, then why is she living with her mother? It's rather crazy to oops someone because HE wanted it, yet SHE is taking up the mother duties (even if begrudgingly). I thought we were past the 50's. I believe that if YOU want it born, then YOU take care of it!

Guys like this want to knock the woman up and dump the cunt work on them to keep them under their domination and control. It's not about having a baybee; it's about keeping the woman tractable. They know a woman with a young child is less likely to leave. In other words, they are fucking creeps.

And while I don't condone affairs in a marriage, I've known some people who have them on the way out of a marriage because they meet someone nice and they grab it like a fucking life raft.

I don't condone affairs, but in some cases I sure understand them.

bell_flower: I don't condone affairs, but in some cases I sure understand them.

I don't condone them either, and would never sleep with a married man.

I do, however, understand that people are human and crave love and affection. If someone has been denied those feelings from their spouse...they will eventually stray to someone else who will give it to them.

I believe that most affairs are not just one person's fault (ie: the one having the affair) but it's a problem with the marriage or relationship as a whole. If both parties don't wish to change, then the problem won't go away.

As for the young girl, I feel very sad for her. She will have to eventually get over it, because she can't allow her ignorant asshole parents to ruin her entire life. She deserves to have a good life despite her moo not wanting her...and her duh oopsing the moo. These were things that were not in the daughter's control, and she shouldn't have to pay for her parent's mistakes.

I agree that the parents should be doing whatever they can to help this girl...from education to psychotherapy...to get her on her feet, so she can live a normal, healthy life.

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dreamlife
Thank you for your courage to share, Zzelda.
I do not watch "Family Guy" because it has too much violence that is supposed to be funny. I do not find it funny. I do not care if it is a cartoon. It's the idea of the violence being presented in a so-called funny way to make it acceptable. It's not.

Dreamlife -

I just edited that part out about the Family Guy episode because I thought I was meandering off my own points.

For those who missed that - I mentioned the FG episode where Peter goes abstinent and Lois literally drags him forcefully into sex.
Forces him. And it disgusted me and made me angry!

I feel the same as you too, DL, in that I kind of used to like this show - when it was kind of sarcastic and funny - but then it seemed to turn overly crass and violent. On many subjects. I don't watch it anymore.

This makes me think of something else to add to my previous thoughts - maybe that's why I thought of someone resorting to violence - my exH - when we were in the middle of this and I said put the condom on and he refused and I said NO - he did not cajole or sweet talk or say like - oh - another couple minutes - I'm not ready yet - he held me down and forced himself on me.

My point being here - BEWARE of the Sweet Talk and BS too!!! That's what he tried before it escalated to this. And I had sensed too - before - with the talk of - oh, I'm not close yet, I don't need it yet - I suspected even then he had an agenda to impregnate me. (This is what he tried previously, leading up to this - and I mean *before* this incident - previous days / past - I just thought he didn't like the condoms. But then I began to suspect it *wasn't* just that - he had another agenda going / was trying to knock me up even before this ~)

And when I called him on it, said NO, be careful and put it on now - he resorted to straight up violence.

I want others to try to see these signs.

BTW - this happened to me about 10 years ago, and I have been involved with some much better people since then. The following LTR BF literally wanted to kill this guy. Which also gave me pause because violence is not the answer. He never forced me to do anything though.

We broke up and I've since gone out with an older man. This is not serious. But I do now seek out older men. Maybe I think they will be wiser and more mellow? I don't kid myself though - anyone can be an asshole. Watch their general behavior.

My ex H hid his true intentions very well. He wanted kids all along, he was just BSing me to get me to stay. He hid his true agenda very well.

OK. Enough on this. Past is past.

I do hope it may be of some benefit to others ~

M6 ~

Thanks for your thoughts too, just saw

I feel the same for you, that you have the courage to share about past things.

I wish you peace, you deserve it, and so do we all!

Maybe some others here can pick up some wisdom too, and some bad things can be prevented.

I hope so.

It just occurs to me - I thought of something else - I was once jumped in the street by - who knows if he wanted to rape me or rob me or what? But I beat the living shit out of the guy! I was big into exercise, training, etc, at the time - and I literally almost killed the guy.

This is the 'classic rape' (or robbery) scenario.

But to me - what we also have to watch out for - maybe even more so - are the "Sweet Talkers", those operating off hidden agendas - these people are extremely dangerous too - and these are the ones I hope to tell people to watch out for.

Hate to promote any paranoia - but - just take care. And speaking of what I just wrote - you can feel better and gain peace of mind by learning how to fight. I can fight dirty, too. I'll take one of your eyes out. Read and learn. Take Martial Arts. Feel you can't? GUN.
I always carry a piece, illegal or not. I figure - if I get pinched with it - I will tell the Judge - look - AIDS infected rapists don't get permits, either.

What's additionally scary though is - it's not always the stranger - it's often a person you know. And trust.

Erg.

Well. I hate to be a downer here, just wish for others to think and be safe.

I had a boyfriend who threatened once that he could force himself on me. I fucking laughed at him. I had at least 40 pounds on him (he was a bean pole. I look like Clarissa of The Two Fat Ladies, even then). We once got into a wrestling match in the front yard (not sure in the timeline of the comment) and I clobbered him. It ended when he tried taking me to the ground with him and I put my elbow out and nailed him in the balls. One time, he was being a little jerk at the beach and I picked his ass up and waded out into the water with him.

Yeah, he's gonna force himself on me.

Sounds like duh in the Abby letter and zzelda's ex are "reproductive users".

Zzelda, what your ex did was really awful. Someone on the other CF board had the same experience and she didn't refer to it as rape but other posters did. WTF with these guys who try to force impregnation on women who don't want it. Do they really think she will keep it? Guy rapes a childfree woman and she is going to just keep the loaf and they all will live happily ever after - yeh right. These guys are lucky they don't get thrown in jail or worse because I've known some bad things to happen to rapists.

GOD

DAMMITTTTTT!!!!!!!!

That is all, for now. I will be back, with certainty.

Sounds like a certain dude isn't being too responsible with his marriage, "safe sex", or fatherhood that obviously happened more than a few times as a result.

Oh - and that is one reason why I don't get involved with romance anyway. :/ (Zzelda, you should have pressed charges against that animal you were unfortunate to marry, BTW.)

Wow Zzelda your ex sounds like a crazy fucking psycho who would be better off in a straightjacket.

But I highly commend you for getting out of that situation - being strong and saying "No!" with conviction is a good thing.

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selidororous
Wow Zzelda your ex sounds like a crazy fucking psycho who would be better off in a straightjacket.

But I highly commend you for getting out of that situation - being strong and saying "No!" with conviction is a good thing.

The really odd thing was - he was perfectly fine. UNTIL he got his hooks in me. And then he did a complete 180 personality wise and /or he decided it was OK at that point to let his 'true self' out.

Some people operate with hidden agendas and it's not always easy to spot.

I would guess that you just have to observe *their behavior* very carefully and not always put stock in just their words. And some people are very good at fooling you or at least keeping their true plans for you hidden.

I have this guy and this period pretty much gone from my memory. I'm trying to think if there were any red flags ~

He was kind of jealous of my work. I had a nicer job and made more $ than him. He was never overly controlling though *at first* and I had male friends and everything. He was kind of a "follower" type of person, and disliked change or anything new or different. Red flags waving towards a Life Scripter? Maybe.

He really had me fooled though. As the old saying goes - you don't really know someone until you live with them.

I am interested in men in the late 40s to early, mid 50s age range. I like older men anyway and I think that I'd have a better chance to find someone who knows what they want in this age range. (I am mid 30s and men in this age range to mid 40s - many are Wanna Breeds - or - don't really know what they want. Ex H was same age as me.) Of course this is no guarantee and I would not discriminate against anyone.
I do like older men in general, I love that shaggy silver grey hair especially.

I am also very interested in what sort of work they do / what sort of education. I have taken alot of flak for this and even was lectured big time by a friend of mine over it. Like he thought I was too picky or a snob or something.

It has nothing to do with that - to me, these things point toward the person's *personality*, interests, and possibly future plans.

A Fundamentalist Preacher is probably not going to be CF, as example.

Well, let's be careful out there! I am happy to be single and focused on my own plans at present.

I really wish abrahamic religions were right about a place called hell, so these male oopsers (including zzelda's ex) could be repeatedly burnt and being poked with extra hot metal bar right on their righteous balls and assholes, in the deepest layer of hell.

they technically rape when they try to oops a female into carrying his seed. sadly, it's legal, because 'who could ever deny a surprise little bundle of joy us, male oopsers, try to give to you ladies?'

these kind of stories are horrifying, tomorrow it could happen to me or anybody else here...

Oh how I hate this idea that if you agreed to sex, it means you agree to any and everything that comes with it.

If at ANY POINT either party says NO, that should always be respected.

People think BDSM is terrible and about abuse, but how can it be when safe words are paramount, and individual's personal limits are respected?

I cannot imagine anything worse than a partner, especially one you've known for a while, totally disregarding your feelings in this way. I was raped at 14, but I don't really even consider what happened to me as a sexual experience at all. It was a conclusion of many years of 'bullying' (har-de-har) and what I figured would be another beating turned into a gang rape as well. To me, it was all just part of all manner of violence, and these were thuggish toe-rags that I knew to be just that. For someone you TRUST to do that, well, my heart goes out to all of you who have suffered that.



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'Though I am satisfied at first by my actions, I'm suddenly jolted with a mournful despair at how useless, how extraordinarily painless, it is to take a child's life. The thing before me....has no real history, no worthwhile past, nothing is really lost.' AMERICAN PSYCHO - Patrick Bateman critiques killing a child

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Zzelda


The really odd thing was - he was perfectly fine. UNTIL he got his hooks in me. And then he did a complete 180 personality wise and /or he decided it was OK at that point to let his 'true self' out.

Some people operate with hidden agendas and it's not always easy to spot...

He really had me fooled though. As the old saying goes - you don't really know someone until you live with them.

Zzelda I also wanted to say that I'm glad you got out of that situation and toxic relationship when you did! I was raped in a similar fashion about 11 years ago by someone I was dating at the time - originally consented to sex but he switched up what he was doing, I said, "no" and he forced me into the act anyway. I didn't stay with him much longer, but for some reason it didn't register as rape at the time. I knew he didn't respect me, and I stopped seeing him and lost contact. I was 18 at the time and pretty inexperienced with sex and relationships in general (shy kid in school and didn't date much), and it seems stupid now, but at the time I didn't think I had a case against him to press any charges. It sucks to drag these past events out into the light, but I also agree that talking about it can bring others to awareness and either prevent others from experiencing similar things, or alert others that it may be happening to them and they can stop it.

Another ex who I dated and lived with on and off in my early to mid 20's did the same bait-and-switch personality thing. He was really nice in the beginning, then after about a year, he turned emotionally abusive, and I was a fool to continue to be involved with him after that point. I guess I hoped the person he pretended to be when I met him still existed somewhere in there? I won't go into all the gory details, but his verbal abuse escalated to physical one time and that was the last time, I was DONE after that, and I'm so glad. I only kick myself for putting up with being verbally abused for so long. Verbal can escalate to physical and usually will, but it took that one incident to wake me up that he was capable of hurting much more than just my feelings. It was odd because this dude grew up with parents who did not argue or abuse each other and I was always like, "how did a guy come from a family like that and turn out so fucked up?" Maybe some people are just born fuckups, and this guy was one for sure.

I've also put that time in my life to the past and rarely think about it, but at the same time, if we are completely silent about these things, we run the risk of denying others who might be in similar situations the chance to be aware that they're in situations where they should get out. When someone is "sucked in" it can be easy to normalize their situation because it's the path of least resistance, but maybe if someone reads our stories they can sum up the courage to get out. People who are abusers will NEVER change, and the veneer on their personality when you met them was just a show to hook you in, a mask, a performance. When they know they fucked up, they will for a short period of time pretend to be that person again, a "honeymoon" period of sorts, but it's only an act to fool you. And I strongly believe that abusers should never be in relationships, but this is not an ideal world.

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GaiasRevenge
Oh how I hate this idea that if you agreed to sex, it means you agree to any and everything that comes with it.

If at ANY POINT either party says NO, that should always be respected.

People think BDSM is terrible and about abuse, but how can it be when safe words are paramount, and individual's personal limits are respected?

I cannot imagine anything worse than a partner, especially one you've known for a while, totally disregarding your feelings in this way. I was raped at 14, but I don't really even consider what happened to me as a sexual experience at all. It was a conclusion of many years of 'bullying' (har-de-har) and what I figured would be another beating turned into a gang rape as well. To me, it was all just part of all manner of violence, and these were thuggish toe-rags that I knew to be just that. For someone you TRUST to do that, well, my heart goes out to all of you who have suffered that.

if you are two consenting adults who both want to do a bunch of whips and chains and gag balls crap. be my guest. i do not want to know or need to know this shit. i am not into that crap in no way or shape.

sorry to hear about the rape. i don't even know what to say about that.

i was mildly molested by a relative (just touching stuff) and i don't think i felt victimized so much as how i normally feel when shit like this goes down, which is "are you fucking kidding me". i was fortunate to have parents who had open channels of communication with me and my sister and believed me. one of my cousins was not believed by her mom (because i think her mom had the hots for him. her mom is a total demon) and it apparently had escalated with her, but i put the kibosh on him.