Moo butthurt because doctor stood up to her ridiculous demands.

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mistress rotwang
Whenever I have any kind of surgical procedure I am not allowed to have any of that shit so why do people in labor get it? Next time I have a colonoscopy I want relaxing music and flowers!

You should be allowed to have those things too, as long as you pay for it yourself.

But aren't you unconscious during a colonoscopy?

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

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SlumSlut

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mistress rotwang
Whenever I have any kind of surgical procedure I am not allowed to have any of that shit so why do people in labor get it? Next time I have a colonoscopy I want relaxing music and flowers!

You should be allowed to have those things too, as long as you pay for it yourself.

But aren't you unconscious during a colonoscopy?

Doesn't matter if I'm knocked out, I still want it
Besides, wasn't there a thread about how someone on this board wanted their boyfriend or husband with them while they got an abortion but they weren't allowed to? Why should pregnant women be treated differently than any other patient?

meh. what happens on the mooternity ward doesn't affect me personally, but the candles seem like a dumb idea. open flames + hopsital = disaster.

As long as they're not using public funds for their candles and flowers and music, I don't care.

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SlumSlut

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CF_Amy
I don't work in a maternity ward, but I will have to at one point due to nursing school clinicals and PA rotations. Not looking forward to it, at all, but I would not CHOOSE to, I will be going into Orthopedic Surgery (hoping for a spinal surgery sub-specialty). At all the hospitals I've been to, there are strict "no scents" orders for staff, you can wear deodorant, but no scented lotion/body spray. Yes, they can and will send you home to shower.

I know that is true in a lot of places, but in many situations aromatherapy is becoming more of a mainstream practice. There is a difference between requiring employees to remain odor-neutral and using odors to create a therapeutic environment. Hospitals exist for the benefit of the client, not for the benefit of employees. You paid to provide a service, the hospital doesn't exist to give you a job of which you dictate the terms. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier in another line of work? It's not too late to change your major. You seem to be putting your needs above the needs of your clients. That's not the type of person I'd want taking care of me. It reminds me of the nurse I had after my hysterectomy. She wanted to put the catheter back in and i said "no" and she lied and said my doctor ordered it. I didn't let her put it back (I'm leaving out some details but trust me, I knew there was no need to have it put back and I was/am fine), but i did talk to my doctor afterward and she said she would not have ordered it put back while i was not under anaesthesia. What IS it with some of you nurses and catheters? I think it's some kind of sadistic-pleasure thing. (and I said SOME of you nurses, not "you nurses" or "all nurses". I've been around groups of nurses talking shop and it never fails, at least two of them are obsessed with putting catheters in people (especially men), and they always tell these stories with a sick gleam in their eyes).

Are you fucking kidding me? You're seriously suggesting I CHANGE MY MAJOR because I'm DREADING my OB rotations?! I'M GOING INTO ORTHOPEDICS, NOT OB. I only said I'd work OB if it was the ONLY job available. For almost 6 figures, I can deal with needy, entitled moos for a couple months.

Oh, and not wanting incense/scents in the room is generally a hospital policy, BUT, if they do allow it and it gives a staff member a RAGING headache to where she can't see/think straight, couldn't that be a safety issue? If that makes me selfish, FINE, I'm selfish. Heaven forbid I want to be able to see/think straight when someone's life is potentially in my hands.

I have NO issues with UNSCENTED "candle lights", the ones that are a light bulb and produce no heat or flame. But real fire and scents? No. It is a safety and in some cases a health hazard for people other than moo.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What is a home without children? Quiet. ~Henny Youngman

I don't want people who want to dance, I want people who have to dance. ~George Balanchine

"I took the batteries out of my biological clock and put them in my vibrator"

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CF_Amy

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SlumSlut

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CF_Amy
I don't work in a maternity ward, but I will have to at one point due to nursing school clinicals and PA rotations. Not looking forward to it, at all, but I would not CHOOSE to, I will be going into Orthopedic Surgery (hoping for a spinal surgery sub-specialty). At all the hospitals I've been to, there are strict "no scents" orders for staff, you can wear deodorant, but no scented lotion/body spray. Yes, they can and will send you home to shower.

I know that is true in a lot of places, but in many situations aromatherapy is becoming more of a mainstream practice. There is a difference between requiring employees to remain odor-neutral and using odors to create a therapeutic environment. Hospitals exist for the benefit of the client, not for the benefit of employees. You paid to provide a service, the hospital doesn't exist to give you a job of which you dictate the terms. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier in another line of work? It's not too late to change your major. You seem to be putting your needs above the needs of your clients. That's not the type of person I'd want taking care of me. It reminds me of the nurse I had after my hysterectomy. She wanted to put the catheter back in and i said "no" and she lied and said my doctor ordered it. I didn't let her put it back (I'm leaving out some details but trust me, I knew there was no need to have it put back and I was/am fine), but i did talk to my doctor afterward and she said she would not have ordered it put back while i was not under anaesthesia. What IS it with some of you nurses and catheters? I think it's some kind of sadistic-pleasure thing. (and I said SOME of you nurses, not "you nurses" or "all nurses". I've been around groups of nurses talking shop and it never fails, at least two of them are obsessed with putting catheters in people (especially men), and they always tell these stories with a sick gleam in their eyes).

Are you fucking kidding me? You're seriously suggesting I CHANGE MY MAJOR because I'm DREADING my OB rotations?! I'M GOING INTO ORTHOPEDICS, NOT OB. I only said I'd work OB if it was the ONLY job available. For almost 6 figures, I can deal with needy, entitled moos for a couple months.

Yes, I AM suggesting that you CHANGE YOUR MAJOR because I don't think you're going into the medical field for the right reasons. If you're doing something you'll hate just for the large paycheck, you will suck at it. I hope I never have you and your almost-six-figure salary taking care of me. You have already indicated that you expect patients' needs to be subordinate to your preferences. THat would be the same thing as if i complained that students come in to my lab and mess it up. The lab is here for the students, not for my benefit. I wouldn't have a job if there were no students to come in and mess up the lab. The same goes for you and the consumers who make your job necessary. You are there to provide service for THEM, they are not there to make your workday as pleasant and stress-free as possible.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

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SlumSlut

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me
Also I have worked in a hospital before, just not on a mat. ward, and there's no way in HELL they would allow candles. Definite fire hazard right there. I can't believe this woman would even suggest it.

I agree, if it is a safety hazard (open flames are not allowed where oxygen is being used, etc.) it shouldn't be allowed. I have not read the article, i just glanced at the headline. I still think they should be allowed to have muzak, ambient light, and that kind of stuff. There are those reed-diffuser things that don't require being set on fire like incense or candles.

If you want all that crap the way you want it, either stay home or go have the kid at some crunchy midwife-type birthing facility. As long as I don't have to pay for it.

The reality is, if something is safe, in many modern birthing suites (yes in some newer hospitals there are birthing suites) much of this is available. Things that are not safe like open flames and overpowering scents may not happen, but music and lighting can be arranged.

Things like this weren't available when I finished nursing school but since then when I've done work related clinical rotations (being in the prehospital field we are required to do some annual clinical rotations in areas out of our usual scope) I've seen the lighting and music done. Room lighting can be set up and focused lighting on the delivering clinicians work area. The infant warmer has its own lighting so that is also covered. Moo should have done her homework before choosing a hospital and physician.

Heck it's still better lighting and atmosphere than what I deal with. Delivering one in the front seat of a Ford Taurus is no damm picnic!

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"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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SlumSlut

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CF_Amy

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SlumSlut

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CF_Amy
I don't work in a maternity ward, but I will have to at one point due to nursing school clinicals and PA rotations. Not looking forward to it, at all, but I would not CHOOSE to, I will be going into Orthopedic Surgery (hoping for a spinal surgery sub-specialty). At all the hospitals I've been to, there are strict "no scents" orders for staff, you can wear deodorant, but no scented lotion/body spray. Yes, they can and will send you home to shower.

I know that is true in a lot of places, but in many situations aromatherapy is becoming more of a mainstream practice. There is a difference between requiring employees to remain odor-neutral and using odors to create a therapeutic environment. Hospitals exist for the benefit of the client, not for the benefit of employees. You paid to provide a service, the hospital doesn't exist to give you a job of which you dictate the terms. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier in another line of work? It's not too late to change your major. You seem to be putting your needs above the needs of your clients. That's not the type of person I'd want taking care of me. It reminds me of the nurse I had after my hysterectomy. She wanted to put the catheter back in and i said "no" and she lied and said my doctor ordered it. I didn't let her put it back (I'm leaving out some details but trust me, I knew there was no need to have it put back and I was/am fine), but i did talk to my doctor afterward and she said she would not have ordered it put back while i was not under anaesthesia. What IS it with some of you nurses and catheters? I think it's some kind of sadistic-pleasure thing. (and I said SOME of you nurses, not "you nurses" or "all nurses". I've been around groups of nurses talking shop and it never fails, at least two of them are obsessed with putting catheters in people (especially men), and they always tell these stories with a sick gleam in their eyes).

Are you fucking kidding me? You're seriously suggesting I CHANGE MY MAJOR because I'm DREADING my OB rotations?! I'M GOING INTO ORTHOPEDICS, NOT OB. I only said I'd work OB if it was the ONLY job available. For almost 6 figures, I can deal with needy, entitled moos for a couple months.

Yes, I AM suggesting that you CHANGE YOUR MAJOR because I don't think you're going into the medical field for the right reasons. If you're doing something you'll hate just for the large paycheck, you will suck at it. I hope I never have you and your almost-six-figure salary taking care of me. You have already indicated that you expect patients' needs to be subordinate to your preferences. THat would be the same thing as if i complained that students come in to my lab and mess it up. The lab is here for the students, not for my benefit. I wouldn't have a job if there were no students to come in and mess up the lab. The same goes for you and the consumers who make your job necessary. You are there to provide service for THEM, they are not there to make your workday as pleasant and stress-free as possible.

Unless you break your hip or back, or do something stupid that lands you in the ER, you don't need to worry. Pregnancy grosses me the hell out. Which is why I won't go into OB. Novel concept. I don't think I have to worry about it because I very rarely see openings for L&D nurses, most hospitals want ER nurses, which is where I am at home. Once I get my PA however, I will hopefully be going into orthopedic surgery or trauma surgery (leaning more towards Ortho, especially spinal surgery). In surgery, I won't need to worry about scents because surgeries can (and have been) cancelled if the patient is wearing lotion/perfume.

If someone's perfume or incense gives your provider a headache, I think it is within the doctor's right to say "please don't wear that in the delivery room, it gives me a headache and I don't think you'd want the on call dr to deliver your baby because your perfume/incense gives me such an intense headache, I can't see straight". That's why doctors, nurses, etc. are NOT allowed to wear scented perfume/lotion, for the patients. Why is it so unreasonable to expect the same courtesy from your patients? It doesn't have to be just OB patients, it can be any patient/doctor. If they don't like the "no scent" policy, they can go somewhere else.

I've personally NEVER seen any doctor OK with a patient lighting candles/incense in a hospital room. They might exist, but I've never seen one.

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thom_c

Heck it's still better lighting and atmosphere than what I deal with. Delivering one in the front seat of a Ford Taurus is no damm picnic!

My adoptive mom said the same thing, except hers was in an orange grove with the migrant kids holding lanterns.

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What is a home without children? Quiet. ~Henny Youngman

I don't want people who want to dance, I want people who have to dance. ~George Balanchine

"I took the batteries out of my biological clock and put them in my vibrator"

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mistress rotwang

I can see both sides

And MAN do I wish there were a med person right here that could fix my tooth! OW! Oh I have taken so many aspirin that I might be heaving up blood soon. O_oo.

Hey you med folk want something to REALLY worry about? I might be gambling away your pension funds

(Nah, I don't handle that kind of $$. Scared ya though, huh?)

You know, it does make you think that you could make a biz out of this ~ you could make special hospitals just *for* these types of births. Might be a $$ maker. Like those "Cancer Treatment Centers" that are on TV.

Some one else can do this, I'm lazy
And actually, I think sim might already exist. ?

Fuck, I am going to PULL this tooth out with pliers!!!
DAMN!

I am glad to have the reading here to take my mind off of this. Self employed people are entitled to have a 'sick day' too.

I can't help it. I have a spectator mentality when it comes to fights: I don't care who is right as long as I find the fight amusing and I'm not dragged into it.

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mistress rotwang
I can't help it. I have a spectator mentality when it comes to fights: I don't care who is right as long as I find the fight amusing and I'm not dragged into it.

I don't think of this as a "fight". I have a strong opinion against medical so-called "professionals" who think their work is all about THEMSELVES, that is all. And, CF_Amy is the one who started this thread, so she put herself out there for criticism as far as my Internet Rule Book™ is concerned.

But I am glad you got the opportunity to use the "Popcorn", "I'm with stupid" and "Jerry Jerry" emoticons all together in the same post. That's what they're for: relieving us of the irksome task of constructing complete coherent sentences. Go you.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

I hear ya MR. I like to read all angles and do not know much about med things (which is to my detriment, actually).

Hey - where you at? You wanna come pull my tooth out? It'd be entertaining ~
I can give you 10 bucks and a half a can of flat beer too!

LOL

Damn! I just thought - because there is also pain elsewhere - what if I have a tumor in the sinuses?
(This is why I gotta be careful with med topics - I have a tendency to be a hypochondriac and have a wild imagination.)

Do appreciate our med folk here! No Dentists or techs though, are there?

Arright Ima shut up about this now. Erg.

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Zzelda
I hear ya MR. I like to read all angles and do not know much about med things (which is to my detriment, actually).

Hey - where you at? You wanna come pull my tooth out? It'd be entertaining ~
I can give you 10 bucks and a half a can of flat beer too!

LOL

Damn! I just thought - because there is also pain elsewhere - what if I have a tumor in the sinuses?
(This is why I gotta be careful with med topics - I have a tendency to be a hypochondriac and have a wild imagination.)

Do appreciate our med folk here! No Dentists or techs though, are there?

Arright Ima shut up about this now. Erg.

Should be a emergency dentist in your area - just google it. Advil works better on dental pain than aspirin. Just make sure you follow the directions on the bottle strictly.

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"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Hey Thom, you must've read my mind because I was just thinking of going to the store for Advil.

I am hoping to hold off on the Dentist. It is not super bad, it comes and goes. Got sinus issues also, which I think may be aggravating it.

Aha - look - this thread is doing me some good because it just dawned on me that one of the things that might be bothering my sinuses is a scented candle that's sitting about 2 feet in front of me here. I'm going to go put that in the bathroom.

Here's just quick example of what is really out there regarding birthing suites:

Hospital based

http://www.morrishospital.org/services/family-birthing-suites/ in IL

http://www.uamshealth.com/birthingsuites in AR

http://www.health-first.org/hospitals_services/hrmc/birth_suites.cfm in FL

http://www.smmcbaby.org/ ME

http://www.mosestaylorhospital.net/Services/Pages/Family%20Birthing%20Suites.aspx even in backwards Scranton PA


Stand alone non hospital

http://www.betterbirth.com/bella-natal UT

http://www.birthcenter.com/tour_index.htm WA

http://www.hypnobirthinglasvegas.com/birthplan.html good old Vegas NV



The more I look at this the more I think moo is full of shit and is puffing this thing for attention.
That collection of links took me 180 seconds (hey if the moos don't have to go to years till age 35 why should I go to minutes?). If she had done any homework at all she could have found a center that would have given her half the world for access to her insurance / welfare card.

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"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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mistress rotwang
Doesn't matter if I'm knocked out, I still want it
Besides, wasn't there a thread about how someone on this board wanted their boyfriend or husband with them while they got an abortion but they weren't allowed to? Why should pregnant women be treated differently than any other patient?

(bolding mine)

They shouldn't. The woman who got an abortion should have been allowed to have her support person in there with her. And you should be able to have soothing music during your colonoscopy. I should have been able to get the lights dimmed when they were giving me a headache during my last hospital stay.

I do think that a lot of medical professionals forget that they are there to serve the patients and not the other way around. I think that if something can make an ill person better then it makes sense for hospital staff to try and accomodate them as long as it's safe, legal, and the patient is paying for it themselves.

In cases where the patient's request is not feasable for safely reasons (eg, the open flame from the candle), then the hospital should be open to alternatives (like dimmed lights or those flickering fake candle thingies) rather than telling the patient to basically shut up and take what they're given.

Now if the moo insists that she WILL have actual candles, safety be damned, and they WILL be strongly scented, and the room WILL be dark as a cave, and is generally not willing to make any compromises whatsoever, then I can see an argument for telling her to just suck it. But in general, I think it does more good than harm to accede to little requests that make life slightly more pleasant not just for moos, but anyone who finds themself needing to spend time in the hopsital.

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noneanddone

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mistress rotwang
Doesn't matter if I'm knocked out, I still want it
Besides, wasn't there a thread about how someone on this board wanted their boyfriend or husband with them while they got an abortion but they weren't allowed to? Why should pregnant women be treated differently than any other patient?

(bolding mine)

They shouldn't. The woman who got an abortion should have been allowed to have her support person in there with her. And you should be able to have soothing music during your colonoscopy. I should have been able to get the lights dimmed when they were giving me a headache during my last hospital stay.

I do think that a lot of medical professionals forget that they are there to serve the patients and not the other way around. I think that if something can make an ill person better then it makes sense for hospital staff to try and accomodate them as long as it's safe, legal, and the patient is paying for it themselves.

In cases where the patient's request is not feasable for safely reasons (eg, the open flame from the candle), then the hospital should be open to alternatives (like dimmed lights or those flickering fake candle thingies) rather than telling the patient to basically shut up and take what they're given.

Now if the moo insists that she WILL have actual candles, safety be damned, and they WILL be strongly scented, and the room WILL be dark as a cave, and is generally not willing to make any compromises whatsoever, then I can see an argument for telling her to just suck it. But in general, I think it does more good than harm to accede to little requests that make life slightly more pleasant not just for moos, but anyone who finds themself needing to spend time in the hopsital.

The thing of it is, had the moo in the original post done her homework she would have found the facilities that routinely provide the sort of amenities she desired. Modern birthing suites and birthing centers were designed just for the things she wanted.

I'm kind of surprised music wasn't available at the colonoscopy. I just taught an ACLS class at a GI clinic here. Music was available in the suites. And lights could be dimmed in the recovery area.

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"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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SlumSlut

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mistress rotwang
I can't help it. I have a spectator mentality when it comes to fights: I don't care who is right as long as I find the fight amusing and I'm not dragged into it.

I don't think of this as a "fight". I have a strong opinion against medical so-called "professionals" who think their work is all about THEMSELVES, that is all.

I think you would be hard pressed to find many medical professionals who go into the medical profession strictly "for themselves" considering how hard it is to succeed and how expensive it is. Usually if you ask a medical professional why they chose their field, their answer would be the same as EMS, cops, firefighters, and other service personnel - "I wanted to help people." These days it's not exactly a good way to get rich, that's for sure. And it's a lifetime of hard work, long hours, red tape, ungrateful people, possible lawsuits, insurance messes, etc.

That said, I have never gotten the impression that Amy was any more self-involved than the rest of us. I think she has a valid point - doctors have needs too, and if I were an asthmatic doctor being asked to work on some daft idiot who doused herself in baby powder and White Shoulders, there might be a problem. A hospital should be a sterile environment that is hospitable for EVERYONE there, those who need help and those who provide it. Personal preferences for scents and atmospheres shouldn't even really be an argument. If you want to give birth or have surgery in a suite decked out like Shangri-La, shop around for a hospital that has it. Like, WTF.

These days, many offices have no perfume policies because of the needs of others who also work there. I think not having a headache or asthma attack at work isn't asking too much. "Needing" to smell like Vanilla Sugar isn't a need as opposed to people who need to breathe AIR or to be able to see.

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And, CF_Amy is the one who started this thread, so she put herself out there for criticism as far as my Internet Rule Book™ is concerned.

Well this is true for all of us and all threads; why are we criticizing her today? She's just as CF as the rest of us and I think I can say with some confidence that being accused of being selfish is pretty old hat and we don't expect it from each other. I would expect being accused of being "about myself" by some fatass moo who needs candles and to have her udders tweaked shoving out her calf (and don't all the best laid birth plans of mice and moos fall by the wayside once serious labor starts and they start lowing for their drugs anyway?), not another CF person.

Just saying. Can't we all just get along?

BTW, when my ex had his colonoscopy, I remember there being music. Not that I think anyone but the doctor cared. My ex didn't even notice it was there because he was being a nervous wreck. I was allowed to go into the procedure area with him for a few minutes and then kicked out. But I do remember the CD player before I left the room.

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law
I think you would be hard pressed to find many medical professionals who go into the medical profession strictly "for themselves" considering how hard it is to succeed and how expensive it is. Usually if you ask a medical professional why they chose their field, their answer would be the same as EMS, cops, firefighters, and other service personnel - "I wanted to help people." These days it's not exactly a good way to get rich, that's for sure. And it's a lifetime of hard work, long hours, red tape, ungrateful people, possible lawsuits, insurance messes, etc.

This. Want to know WHY I'm going into spinal surgery? Because my husband and I both have spinal issues, if I can spare one person the agony we've both gone through, my career will be a success. Ideally, I'd like to invent a way to re-generate nerves so paralyzed people can walk again. I have had a save or 2 in my very short EMS career, it was the best feeling in the world to know that you had a hand in someone being able to go home to their family or celebrate another holiday with their loved ones.

But, if you are paying someone to do a service for you, you should take their needs into consideration too. Would you make your lawn boy work in the middle of the afternoon when it's 110 degrees outside? I hope not. I'd ask he come over in the morning or evening when it's cooler.

Also, a ton of people in the delivery room IS a safety hazard. When my friend had her baby, only 3 were allowed and they had to stay at her head. If something goes wrong, do you really want Aunt Mary impeding the doctor? Be it a birth or an ICU room. There is a reason why they kick family out if something happens. It's mainly for safety. The doctor's/staff's and the patient's. Dunno about any of you, but even if I were to shove a kid out of my vag, I don't want my whole family staring at it as I'm crowning!

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What is a home without children? Quiet. ~Henny Youngman

I don't want people who want to dance, I want people who have to dance. ~George Balanchine

"I took the batteries out of my biological clock and put them in my vibrator"

Fresh flowers, balloons and other gift-type items are forbidden in some sections of the hospital because they can harbor bacteria, so it is not only a concern of potential allergy by one or another patient, but of infection control.

As for giving birth in a bathtub, most hospitals will never allow that because they turn into bacterial cesspools that require lots of sanitizing and it is a risk management issue.

"The infant warmer has its own lighting so that is also covered"

gotta warm `em before ya eat `em!

"That's why doctors, nurses, etc. are NOT allowed to wear scented perfume/lotion, for the patients."

as someone sensitive to smells, I appreciate this!

"Fuck, I am going to PULL this tooth out with pliers!!!"

don't do that!


Let me knock it out with a hammer!


"As for giving birth in a bathtub, most hospitals will never allow that because they turn into bacterial cesspools that require lots of sanitizing and it is a risk management issue"

also, the baby can float away!

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Snark Shark
if they REALLY want things ALL NATCHERALL they should give birth in a DARK CAVE SURROUNDED BY HIPPIES.

Oh, yes. The perfect punishment. And since it's natural, I hope everyone foregoes deodorant. Would serve her stupid ass right, thinking that the "perfect birth" is going to actually help matters, as far as hers and her spouses "entry into parenthood" and the sprog's "entry into the world".

I was born all regular and shit - and I wasn't at all traumatized by it, since you know, it's not like I can remember, or anything. As far as I know, my first memory was of me repeatedly climbing out of my crib at the age of 2 or 3, only b/c I was still awake, and it sounded like people outside my room were having a lot of fun, and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I do NOT remember not having candles, incantations, and the whole village in the delivery room... and I don't give a fuck. My mother could tell me that my top 3 favorite bald Italians were in the room at the time, as well as Al Pacino sporting the Serpico look, and it wouldn't make any difference, except for me wondering how the hell my mother knew all of those people, and got them to come over for the birfin'... and if my favorite baldies had hair, back then.

*EDIT - I can see having an iPod or something, for relaxation, or concentration on breathing, or something (or enjoying your epidural to the fullest extent), but to subject the whole room to music that may not suit their tastes... I don't know. Music trolls fucking piss me off.

Sorry for the long post, but jeez. It's not as if the bitch and her vag dumplings aren't going to get the red-carpet treatment for the rest of their lives, or anything.

I probably over-reacted in this thread, but I still feel the way I do.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

It's not exactly reasonable to judge a person's motivations or abilities on the basis of one or two posts from them, nor to lump them in with every other professional that may have fallen short of our personal standards. It's no more reasonable or useful to make uninformed judgments about their career choices, which are really none of our business.

Let's leave the Eau de Moo in the diaper aisle.

A wide range of places have no scent, no flame policies. I, for one, don't question it. If moo wanted a birthing experience tailored to her every whim, she should have researched her options before assuming that the hospital would provide.