Girlfriend wants child or break up

Oh yeah, and I meant to say this the first time, but I think PWS's post was sneaky, subversive and brilliant. Shoot. why didn't I think of it myself?

Techie wrote this:

"I think that your ex is a pile of rubbish. Giving him a boot was a good idea. That fool married you and he knew you had a tubal. What a butt head."

Thanks. It was rough at the time, but he did me a favor. Last I heard, his girlfriend went back with her husband (so much for his baybee fantasies) and he was sobbing to any person who knew me how he "didn't know why she left" etc. What a tool. And the other great thing is he would have been totally unsuited to be a parent: impatient, poor impulse control, not much more than an overgrown brat himself.

Technie also wrote:

"I do not think that issue of kids can be discussed completely before marriage. You got the living proof of that. "

So true. In fact my best friend in the whole world, a vet no less, always told me she didn't want kids. After she'd been married about a year they went off bc "to see what would happen." Well, what happened is that she got pregnant and she regrets it now although she is sucking it up and doing her job as a parent.

I've seen many people do this over the course of my life and I think it comes down to programming. Most people really can't imagine being married with kids. It's Just What You Do and all that or maybe their own families make them feel guilty or obligated. You have to be one stubborn M**her F***er to stay childfree in the face of family pressure. Guess I am one.

That's why I heartily recommend sterilization for single people. I do believe I am an extreme case. Most sterilized people don't divorced for this reason because they don't marry morons. But in my situation, it could have been so much worse. He could have oopsed me. As it was, it was a pretty short conversation: "What the fuck do you mean you want kids? You can't have kids with me, you moron. Remember? "

And you are also correct that the CF person gets the short end of the stick. My ex wasn't just cheating...he was also lying about his affair. (He also chose to cheat when I was caring for two ill relatives, one terminally.) He lied about it until I accidentally found out about it.

There were "good Christian" people in my life who knew all this, and knew I was sterile before we married, yet they excused his behavior because he wanted baybees. Because it's Normal And Natural to want baybees, even if your spouse, to whom you made a committment, can't produce them.

Needless to say, I don't speak to those people any more.

Please calm down, Peppertree. Jesus...one would think I was the devil incarnate for being so honest. Most people hate honesty. I never insulted Jim...or you for that matter. I am sorry you feel the way you do. I don't think any way or the other about you. Don't worry, you are not on my mind one bit except for the response I am giving you.

After thinking about this lively post over the weekend it occurred to me........ I actually KNOW a couple who were in a very similar situation. I went to college with the chick. She was a gold digger through and through and got her hooks into the son of one of my area's wealthy business owners.

She wailed and cried how she wanted BAYBEES, and LOTS OF THEM from HIM. He wanted none. They were both still in college for christ sakes.

Well, life goes on, they graduated and after "much ado" - she "decided" she wanted HIM and not all those BAYBEES.

After all, she was feeding into his dreams and desires of being able to travel, long days on the golf course, hang out at the country club, fancy parties and the whole deal.

So, the story goes, he thinks the coast is clear, after all - the baby talk had finally stopped. They got engaged, got married, BAM! 3 months later they had an "accident" - then another and another. She is the typical gold digger too. Stays home, youngest kid is 14, no desire to do anything other than live off hubby and his family's money. She's happy as a pig in shit and he's totally miserable, but knows a divorce would cost him major $$$. I last talked to this girl about 6 years ago.

My question is, where was his brain? To actually THINK a girl from a lower middle class family (no jabs here, my family is LMC) finally getting her hands on that rich mayun, would give up the free meal ticket of having a baby? If he had half a brain, he'd have dumped her in college instead of wasting all that time with her - time he could have moved on - and time she spent concocting her "plan."

Bell_flower said, "As it was, it was a pretty short conversation: 'What the fuck do you mean you want kids? You can't have kids with me, you moron. Remember?' "

If his goal wasn't about reversing your tubal, maybe he was going to give you the song and dance about how you and he should adopt... Either way, knowing your stated CF beliefs, he was unreasonable. Getting him out of your life was a great move.

Sorry I was gone for the last few days, but I got Friday off, and took some time off to do things for myself and relax a little bit from this situation.

First, I only had minor more discussions with her on the issue. She didn't quite seem to understand the basic issue I have with wanting to be child free. Instead she was concentrating on all the 'noise' around the situation involving finances, responsibility, realities, etc. So I boiled it down to one concise thing for her.

Basically, I analogized it for her in this way. Basically, I am cruising down the interstate of my life. The traffic is clear, the weather is nice, and the music is up. Now, you are asking me to yank off the steering wheel, huck it out the window, and hope for the best. Why the heck would I want to do that?

Of course, this can solicit no answer. There isn't one, except that we are polar opposite. This has helped a lot. The crying is gone, the complaints are gone, and we are starting to move our seperate ways. There is an understanding and acceptance of that. I know most of you do not agree with me, but treating people with respect because they have a polar opinion of yours is not a bad thing. You can't oops someone who is not doing anything to be oopsed. Sleeping with someone else is easily proved. You can call me stupid, but I do not believe this would happen anyways, since she knows I am aware of these kinds of tactics.

She went out with the girls this weekend, and I relaxed at home by myself. It gave us both time to refresh, so that we can get on with the process of going our own ways without it being 'ultra' emotionally charged. I did not go out with this girl for 4 years because she is stupid and crazy. I did that once with an ex wife, and will not repeat that. She may be crazy about having a child, but she knows that I can be stubborn as a mule. Once my mind is made up on something largely affecting my life, it is not going to be influenced. That is what my ex wife did to me, and I will never let it happen again.

In my state you can not be considered common law (as it is in many states) unless you present yourself as husband and wife. We have zero joint anything. She has no access to my money or credit, nor do I have any to hers. It's clean and simple. Even in a marriage the only assets that can be considered joint is ones where both parties contributed. Even in my one year marriage, she owed me money at the end for some debt. I paid no money. So a live in relationship break up will not result in any of those issues.

She does have a job that pays money, and her own insurance she is on, so she can get her own place. She will go the room mate route, so security deposit will not be an issue on that. Regardless, it is an easily dealt with situation.

I am not offended by any of the posts. I was just letting you know that the 'dump the bitch' type statements maybe make us seem a bit more harsh than we have to. A statement of essentially the same thing saying 'The differences just can't be worked out, and it is time to go your seperate ways' is exactly the same thing. Child free is such a 'bizarre' thing to so many people since so much of our society is opposite this. I sure want people to take us seriously, and not see us as some crazy fringe people. Look at PETA for a fine example of how you can look like a lunatic if you take the 'in your face' approach. Then look at Friends Of Animals (which one of the founders broke off and formed because of the issues) and how their message is taken more seriously.

So things are still in progress. The time off was good, in that it allowed me some time to look into myself, and reassure my choices. I watched ads on TV and realized how many of them push the child full life. It was amazing when you are involved in it, and you are more sensitive to the pervasiveness in our society.

So I am kind of wandering around in this post at this point, so I will let it rest with only a sum up statement on how 'offended' I was by things and some other statements. I am not offended. My mind has not been changed, nor will it. My ego was not stroked by 'having my children'. I could care less about that, since I don't want any. I can not get oopsed, since simple DNA clears that up and I have made it clear that I am aware of women taking this tactic. I am not just a 'nice guy'. I stand firm on my opinions, but have reasonable compassion. I don't want to be 'anti-baby crazy', as I think it is as bad as 'baby crazy'. I have my choice, it is right for me, and I will stand with it. I don't believe there were any other outstanding individual questions.

I will keep you updated as things go along. I can guarentee you, however, I will not be talked into children. I prefer to keep the steering wheel firmly in my hands.

Jim

ok good jimo, i know some of us seem more.. militant than others. we each have our views.

the one thing i would be careful about, is when she has gone out with her friends. if they are breeders, they may talk her into oopsing, it depends on the friends. be aware that she may try to get u drunk. it has happened.. just be careful.. thats all i can say.. and the offer of u emailing me holds good.

i agree treat people with respect, i usually do unless they have betrayed my trust at least 3 times.. but thats just me..

so dont worry we all have the best interests in mind, just we see it differently. i am a more middle ground kinda guy...

good luck on it.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

No worries on getting me drunk. I have not drinken so much as to not make rational decisions in a very long time. I don't think that is going to change overnight.... Honestly, I really can control myself and not have a situation to get oopsed in. I don't see refraining from sexual behavior as THAT difficult.

Jim

Jim: I'm glad that you stayed the course! We did want the best for you. Too many men seem to fall into fatherhood, and it certainly is not fair for the children brought into it.
Also, we've read and seen in real life women oops their partners, so you have to keep that in mind. Ha, if that makes me a mysogynist(sp?) so be it.
Yea! And I love Friends For Animals. They were advertising in a trade magazine that I get, for a Vet. Tech. position, but I don't want to move to Utah.

i just made that broad statement i am like a boy scout always prepared. i have heard of women getting men drunk insensible drunk and manually just to get the "donation". i never take things for granted.

i even read once one woman put rohypnol in a guys drink. this may be a myth but, truth is stranger than anything made up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5087815-104770,00.html

A woman was yesterday found guilty of using the "date-rape" drug Rohypnol to knock out a wealthy banker and film director and steal thousands of pounds of goods from their luxury flats.

Selina Hakki, 37, a mother of two, targeted the men at plush London nightspots and encouraged them to take her back to their flats. She then spiked their drinks and suggested they retire to bed.

While the men lay unconscious she helped herself to designer clothes, watches, clocks and cash. When the men awoke, they discovered their valuables had gone.

*** not that i am saying it just be careful whatever you do.. once the baby rabies rears its ugly head, be prepared for anything. they will justify anything for that child. some are worse than others

jimo i am just preparing you to be careful

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Jim, I am glad for you that this is going better than expected.

You and others may think I am harsh for the suggestion of getting the woman o-u-t. Being respectful does not mean being a doormat. Often, we are told to be "respectful" at the cost of our own well-being and allow others to take from us. Telling someone to leave when you have been paying the bills is not "mean" or "disrespectful".

I hope you have a time frame for this woman to move out or you may have a non-paying roomie for quite some time. This happens more than one things. As Mercurior and Sharon stated, a few of us have seen "worst case scenario" in these situations or know of family and/or friends who went through the same. Many people have the "I am too smart to let anything like THAT happen to me," only to find that the other individual was a little slicker.

I am another one who is always prepared. Being firm when it comes to remaining childfree does not equate any of us to PETA! Most people do not like it when those go against societal grain and are very honest about it.

Do be careful and take care of yourself, Jim. It is still a walking time bomb until this woman is out of your home.

KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My question is, where was his brain? To actually
> THINK a girl from a lower middle class family (no
> jabs here, my family is LMC) finally getting her
> hands on that rich mayun, would give up the free
> meal ticket of having a baby? If he had half a
> brain, he'd have dumped her in college instead of
> wasting all that time with her - time he could
> have moved on - and time she spent concocting her
> "plan."

This is off-topic but this is one of the main reasons why I think the classes should not mix. Maybe I sound like someone who is for the caste system but there is a reason why most wealthy families do not want their sons or daughters marrying people who do not have the same type of $$$. Gold-diggers and gigolos being after the family money via marriage and/or babies, I can see why the rich do have the "attitude" that many of complain about. What happened to this fellow in your post is proof positive how these young men from families with money really need to be discerning when it comes to intimate partners. Don't even have "fun" with those girls! This guy should have gotten rid of this gold-digger in college and looked at women from his own socio-economic background.

As a woman who was married to a man who had money along with his family, I was very uncomfortable around these people who looked down on me. In the divorce, I took nothing and had zero interest in fighting the pre-nup. I very briefly dated a man who made more in a month than I did in a year! This was another person I felt very uncomfortable around especially his "better than you" attitude yet claiming most of his "best friends" made less than $30 grand a year. How thoughtful of him! I often wondered WHY he chose lower middle class women to date. Possibly, he knew he could not be shitty to a woman of his own class? The man was snipped so he was not worried about the "lower class" oopsing him.

SchnauzerPup Wrote:
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> He's probably tired of getting bitched at in here.
> He asked for advice, not the Spanish Inquisition.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

Sorry, I had to.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

"There is an understanding and acceptance of that. I know most of you do not agree with me, but treating people with respect because they have a polar opinion of yours is not a bad thing."
Thank you! It's nice to have a reminder of this.

"I am not offended by any of the posts. I was just letting you know that the 'dump the bitch' type statements maybe make us seem a bit more harsh than we have to. A statement of essentially the same thing saying 'The differences just can't be worked out, and it is time to go your seperate ways' is exactly the same thing."
The thing some folks seem to have forgotten is that over the course of a 4 year relationship sometimes people become attached to each other. They might even like being around each other to the point that simply "kicking the bitch out" doesn't seem so easy. One might actually enjoy being around "the bitch" usually. Sure, "the bitch" may have changed her mind about wanting children, or lied about it originally, but I'm sure she has many other positive qualities that Jimo might find difficult to part with. It's easy for us to say "fuck her! she can sleep in the gutter", but we don't have a relationship with her at all or Jimo beyond this forum.

To be honest, I don't really care what happens in Jimo's life. It's his to live however he wants, and what I have to say as a complete stranger, should have little bearing. It's just curiosity that keeps me reading...real life os way more interesting than the latest celebretard trainwreck.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Nothing good will come of this for you, if you cave to her threats and emotional games.
Do what is right for you.
Be careful she might get pregnant without your consent. Women do it all the time to get what they want. Best of luck and I hope it works out for you

"There is an understanding and acceptance of that. I know most of you do not agree with me, but treating people with respect because they have a polar opinion of yours is not a bad thing."


I took that quote to be a bit insulting. It sucks to have to go through what you are going through, Jim. I went through this myself. But making sure that you take care of yourself does not mean you aren't treating people with respect.

Peppertree: Techies post was fairly blunt too, so why just say something to Amethous? Amethous is just being straight with him.
Looks like it's working out well for him so far too.

Sharon J:

Because Am had at least two posts that I could remember that I thought were unnecessarily aggressive toward Jim. However, I thought (and I'm not the only one) many of the posts (NOT just Am's) were becoming increasingly nasty and aggressive.

The post that prompted me to respond was one in which Am accused Jim of "caving" just because he hadn't posted an update on the situation in some time. I felt it was unfair to jump to that conclusion and immediately start pelting Jim with nasty comments like "I have no sympathy for you" "you did it to yourself" and "better you than us." All this WHEN NO ONE ON THIS BOARD EVEN KNEW WHAT HAD HAPPENED YET. It was unnecessary. If Jim had actually given in to his girlfriend's demands, those comments would have been warranted. However, this was not the case and I thought people were being abusive without any basis.

In addition, I thought it a good idea to ease up on the aggressiveness just in case we managed to scare Jim off. Jim came to this board as a person in need and wanted our advice on his situation. I thought it important that he be treated with respect and I was starting to feel like he no longer was. There WERE many good, honest, straightforward, constructive bits of advice for him here in the beginning before it devolved into stuff like "If you caved, well more fool you...And if you did, no sympathy from me whatsoever." I was simply hoping we could dial it back a notch so Jim might be more receptive to our advice and be steered in the right direction.

Jim himself said exactly this: "I was just letting you know that the 'dump the bitch' type statements maybe make us seem a bit more harsh than we have to. A statement of essentially the same thing saying 'The differences just can't be worked out, and it is time to go your seperate ways' is exactly the same thing. Child free is such a 'bizarre' thing to so many people since so much of our society is opposite this. I sure want people to take us seriously, and not see us as some crazy fringe people."

I'm sorry to have ruffled so many feathers, but that is what boards like this are for. People come here to speak freely and exchange different ideas and opinions. Everyone here is free to state their opinions in whatever language they choose and others are allowed to respond however they see fit. Just because we all share a common interest/opinion on a certain topic (in this case being childfree) that doesn't mean we all have to agree on absolutely everything. And if you can't handle being called out on something you said, then you need to bone up or go elsewhere.

"I was just letting you know that the 'dump the bitch' type statements maybe make us seem a bit more harsh than we have to. A statement of essentially the same thing..." So Jim's saying that he doesn't mind what posters here are saying, but he wants them to sugar-coat it in 'nicer' words so people won't think badly about us. Who cares what they think? Who needs their approval to be/stay CF? To those 'so many people' Jim referred to: FUCK YOU!

We're all adults -- if you can't handle people not wrapping their opinions in 'nicer' words (even though you claim to believe we're all entitled to 'speak freely'), then YOU need to 'bone up or go elsewhere', because this is clearly not the place for you. Anybody who comes to THIS website and expects people to hold their tongues (or fingers?) IS 'crazy' -- on the very first page you see, the rant page, Bratfree's 'mission statement' says "you usually have to bite your tongue... Not here. This is the place to let it all out" -- that's what we do. I LIKE that people here don't mince words. I LIKE that people here don't tip-toe around "sensitive" subjects so as not to hurt anyone's feelings. I LIKE that people here don't try to placate others. I LIKE that we're not expected to wear the (borrowing from Ame) "nicety-nice" mask we're forced to strap on in real life.

And one more thing -- Ame said, "I have no sympathy for you, Jim, *if* you caved. You did it to yourself. You will be dealing with a bitch girlfriend/maybe-wife and a baby while we are childfree. Better you than us..." She didn't 'accuse' him of anything -- and more than a few of us agreed with her 'bed. made. lie' way of thinking.

i agree with nour, all this blame game on jimo, will make him think twice about our advice. and maybe not follow it.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Peppertree, you still did not answer about Techie's post. That is sweet of you to want to protect Jim's feelings when he came here supposedly wanting honesty about this situation. Many people will bitch about their spouse or significant other but will freak when some harsh things are said about the looters in their lives.

Is it that you will not disagree with a male but will behave as many females do when it comes to an outspoken woman? I don't care that you called me out. That is why I am still here. Would you be able to call out a man and have him return the favour?

Since you were so sensitive about "being nice", Techie did mention being really PO'd at the guy's girlfriend and said some pretty bad things, which I found funny...by the way. I am a little surprised you were not getting on the man's case for his comments about blow jobs during a period when I never mentioned the woman's sexual habits.

Believe what you want. Jim is still dealing with this woman in HIS home. Until the wanna-moo is out, there are still going to be problems for this man. I do not placate others. Stating it as it is does not make the childfree "crazy" or a "fringe group". People use that shit to try to shut us up as they did with the early feminists.

As Stephanie stated, many people do feel they have to put on th e"nice" mask in public and walk around lying to themselves or others. If a person does cave to a partner who wants those babies, it is really his/her problem. Again...better them than me.

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i agree with nour, all this blame game on jimo,
> will make him think twice about our advice. and
> maybe not follow it.

If Jim does not follow anyone's advice, that is his decision. "We" did not make him do or not do anything...

OK, on all of these recent posts I felt obligated to respond to what I was really trying to communicate. First, I could care less about 'harsh language'. It doesn't offend me personally. That was never an issue.

So here is what I was trying (apparently unsucessfully) to communicate. I walked into this list off of a search engine that linked to a different page, that referenced here. It seemed to be an active discussion group about a side of things that is not very well represented out there (Child Free). It was more in line with the 'other side', rather than being told the standard 'you will love it once they are here'. My mind was mostly made up, but I wanted a bit more reinforcement, and possibly opportunities for introspection or of understanding, or experiences.

I did receive several useful bits that helped me to strengthen my resolve, and understand further the nature of what my girlfriend was really going through (several links to baby sites that were very telling).

But I also received tirades of 'Dump the Bitch' type statements. Now I agree that if all's you want to do is vent angers, then you have that right. If you actually care about influencing somebody's opinion to tell them that living the Child Free lifestyle is ok, do you really think that helped them at all? If my mind wasn't mostly made up, and I was sitting on the fence, I believe I would have left here immediately, never to return. The statements seem not so helpful. They don't provide any insight, any strength, or contain any useful information at all.

I wasn't 'insulted', 'offended', etc. It just wasn't at all helpful to the situation, and was just a bit off putting. It didn't make me feel like there was going to be further useful information, and I quickly considered just leaving. Then I got a few posts out there that had some cool tidbits, that were not simply just 'Dump the bitch or you will get oopsed' repeated 10 times over. I think that it was quickly apparent about that information.

So I provided thoughtful responses about my concerns and thoughts. To that I received back (and I don't care if you stuck an 'if' in there) that I was going to cave and become a father. Just because I didn't immediately huck the girlfriend out on the street. The very fact that I might actually want to communicate anything with her was percieved as 'caving in', and leading to the inevitable child. If you can't see that as a bit demeaning, then so be it. I know that if I wasn't a bit stubborn, I certianly would have left after that. I think at that point that anyone who might have been sitting on the fence looking for advice about being child free as a valid option would have left (at least 90% of them anyways). So you now have run someone off who was facing a tough decision just because he didn't immediately respond to 'dump the bitch'.

If this board is just a place to spout off anger, and that is all it is meant to be, then I apologize for my statements and will simply move on. I'm more insterested in discourse and insight, than simple venting. I guess everyone needs their chance to vent as well. If that is the primary purpose of the board, then so be it.

That was my rationale about trying to explain that there might be better ways to influence people than the simple statement to 'dump the bitch' again and again. I know I almost walked away immediately, and maybe should have. Now it has devolved into further insulting me because I tried to point out any of this above. Somehow my 'feelings are hurt' because of things said. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I apologize for wasting your time,

Jim

This whole thing is fucking ridiculous. All my original post said was: "Can we be a wee bit nicer to Jim, please?" and then this absurd shitstorm ensues.

I'll say it AGAIN: My beef WASN'T with people being brutally honest and saying whatever needed to be said. I think that's great, that's all fine with me. My problem was with the fact that people started attacking Jim (and I'll say it a THIRD time now) WHEN NO ONE EVEN KNEW FOR SURE WHAT HE HAD DONE YET. And trying to justify such aggression by saying "Oh, well, we only said we would have no sympathy for Jim *if* he caved" is no justification at all.The fact remains that no one here knew what had happened yet, so there was no real reason for such comments in the first place.

So, my problem wasn't with people making aggressive comments (I make them too) and my goal wasn't to get everyone to 'play nice.' It was simply to remind people that, just because Jim hadn't posted that didn't mean he "caved," and to maybe save the nasty comments for when and if we found out he actually did give in. Let's save our venom-spewing for situations where we actually know what we're talking about, yes?

It's also really sad that I am now being called "crazy" for feeling this way. If this is the way we treat each other, then the childfree community really doesn't have much hope of ever being respected or taken seriously.

As of now, I'm washing my hands of this little fiasco. It's clear that any aggression directed toward me is a result of people being miffed because they were told they were wrong. And to react in such a way is, well, childish.

See you all on some other thread!

Peppertree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole thing is fucking ridiculous. All my
> original post said was: "Can we be a wee bit nicer
> to Jim, please?" and then this absurd shitstorm
> ensues.

Sorry you feel the way you do. For someone who wants to be so "nice", you are on the cuss-fest! It is probably better that you let go of this and how others posted on this topic. This is really out of your control re: how I or anyone else posts. That was really sweet of you to want to protect Jim.

Jim, you have to make your own choices whether or not to have your girlfriend move out or to continue your relationship with her.

All I can say is that the longer you allow her to stay on, the more of a chance the lady is not going to want to leave. Most people are not going to want to move out when someone else has been supporting them for as long as you have with your mate.

My experience with my own life and others I worked with is that the person who often no longer wants the relationship because certain stips were not met still wanted to stay on in the house when they were not paying toward anything.

I chose to move out of my apartment when I decided to end my marriage. My ex was not going to go anywhere. He was on the lease but not paying. He suddenly had to ante up with me not there and my putting disconnect dates for the utilities as well as password protecting the accounts. The joint checking was canceled as well as those check Visa cards.

You will basically have a roommate without any of the perks: such as help with the bills or intimacy. It is going to be hard to date - if you chose to do so - with an ex-girlfriend living in the house even if she has chosen to sleep in another room. The jealousies will be there & most women will run fast not wanting "drama".

If you do decide to go to another childfree-by-choice thread, you may want to read many of the postings and threads before baring your life. Or...better yet, a board where there are moms and the childfree posting together may be a better route. We CF'ers tend to not hold back. Moms may be not as crazy and more gentle...:lips