Food for thought on sterilization

I found a longitudinal study over 14 years that found that women without children who were sterilized before age 30 had only a 6.3% chance of regret relating to the procedure. Not anywhere close to the figures of 20-30% that pronatalist docs shit around. I have attached the scientific paper.

Thanks! I've heard of two studies (haven't seen either), one saying that women over 30 are less likely to regret sterilization, and one saying that women who don't have children are less likely to regret it. I like that this one combines it. wink

I look forward to reading it!

I also added it as a resource to epic threads, so anyone trying to convince the gynocologist in her life can find it quickly.

What I find odd is that women under 30 without children at time of sterilization have lower regret rates than women in their thirties. One would think that this would be more common knowledge but considering how fucking pronatalist the media is I am glad that I could even find something like this on ScienceDirect.

I think this should be sticked up and be in the memorable posts thread...

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“I was talking about children that have not been properly house-trained. Left to their own impulses and indulged by doting or careless parents almost all children are yahoos. Loud, selfish, cruel, unaffectionate, jealous, perpetually striving for attention, empty-headed, for ever prating or if words fail them simply bawling, their voices grown huge from daily practice: the very worst company in the world. But what I dislike even more than the natural child is the affected child, the hulking oaf of seven or eight that skips heavily about with her hands dangling in front of her -- a little squirrel or bunny-rabbit -- and prattling away in a baby's voice.”


― Patrick O'Brian, The Truelove


lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

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t.
I think this should be sticked up and be in the memorable posts thread...

I second that notion.

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lab mom

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t.
I think this should be sticked up and be in the memorable posts thread...

It already was added.

That's the idea why they won't drop the sterilization age to 25 in Finland although many of us signed petitions and one organization did efforts to change the law. It still reamins 30 because it is believed that women (without kids) who get sterilized under 30 have more chances of regret.

Nice find! Thanks for sharing xx

Look at how low the numbers for, "lack of comprehension about procedure" are. While that seems to fly in the face of the idiot moos who claim to regret sterilization because they "wanted more children" (HURR DURR), it's still pretty telling that nobody really goes into it not expecting it to be what it is. Now can I PLEASE just sign my consent/waiver form and get it over with already?! eyes2

In other news, the high probability of regret as a result of "remarriage/divorce" made me lol. Just gotta have one of your own, eh toots?

It's interesting how much bias there is in the writing. They were looking for people who regret it, and that's what they found. Note that some of the regret is due to the believed medical side effects, not only because people wanted more children. There is very little reference to the extremely low risk of regret for women who don't have children, especially when they go about listing risk factors and include "being under 30" as one of the risk factors when it is clear from the data that it is actually "being under 30 and already having children."

No matter what conclusions they draw, the data clearly shows that women who don't have children are extremely unlikely to regret sterilization.

I don't get the regret thing to begin with. Find me one person alive who doesn't regret anything and we will talk about it. Honestly, my mother loves me but I know sometimes she regretted/regrets having me (and my sis). Same my dad. And she regretted having worked for years with her parents. And probably other things.

Why regretting children should be different? (whenever having or not having them). You regret, you get over it.

_______________________

“I was talking about children that have not been properly house-trained. Left to their own impulses and indulged by doting or careless parents almost all children are yahoos. Loud, selfish, cruel, unaffectionate, jealous, perpetually striving for attention, empty-headed, for ever prating or if words fail them simply bawling, their voices grown huge from daily practice: the very worst company in the world. But what I dislike even more than the natural child is the affected child, the hulking oaf of seven or eight that skips heavily about with her hands dangling in front of her -- a little squirrel or bunny-rabbit -- and prattling away in a baby's voice.”


― Patrick O'Brian, The Truelove


lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

We don't think potential regret in some should drive decisions for others, because we know that adult life is filled with choices which will always mean there are regrets, and what's important is to learn how to handle it well. However, the pronatalist cultural assumption is that regret about children that weren't born is unbearable and to be avoided at all costs. So that's the argument which is used against women who seek sterilization: you might regret it. That's why these sorts of studies matter, because they show that very few of us do regret it. It deflates the bingo given to us by people in a position of power over our bodies.

If we weren't in a pronatalist culture, people would look at these figures and say "That's great - 80% of people are still satisfied, 14 years later! That's far better odds than we get with IVF!" In other words, the experience of the 20% wouldn't be as important as the experience of the vast majority who are satisfied. Sure, they'd like to reduce the number of people who are dissatisfied by looking at risk factors and giving additional counseling to people who are at high risk for regret (those with children under 3, it seems), but when someone is convinced they want to do it, they'd conclude that the odds are on her side and just fucking do it!

I found another article. Similar findings. This one says that 7.1% of women under 30 without children at the time of the great fix regret it.

I have access to technical papers through my university account and I finally decided to look this up.

I'm so glad you are - this is the kind of language that makes sense to me and should make sense to most medical professionals as well.

(Re: second article) Well. Great that they don't think that young women should be denied sterilization, but it sounds like they are in favor of trying to encourage alternatives because they claim there is no way to predict which ones will regret sterilization. I would very much have liked to see a grid which would allow me to see the cummulative possibility of regret for a combination of any two factors to see if that is really the case, because I strongly suspect that if that were done, this study would reveal that one highly predictive way of identifying lack of regret is not having children in the first place.

Consider that a little over 50% of the people were aged 18-30 at the time of the sterilization. The cummulative probability of regret was 40.4% for 18-24, and 15.6% for 25-30, but for "No previous pregnancies" it was 7.1%. So unless young women were overwhelmingly not represented among those who had not been pregnant - which would be quite unusual in a study where they make of 50% of the respondants - there's quite an elephant in this paper.

My feeling on it is I don't give a shit how many regret it. They made an informed decision and it just didn't happen to be the right one for them. It isn't like they made a "wrong" decision for themselves that will end their lives or anything and whenever any of these cows come back later and moo and low, wail about reversals, and sue doctors, it only makes it more difficult for other women who KNOW what they want to get a tubal ligation. I'd be willing to bet the ones who regret having been sterilized are feeling that way because they are seeking to seal the deal with a new man with a "one of our own" loaf. TOUGH SHIT, You can simply be satisfied with the kids you already have or adopt.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

All that I know is that I have been lied to for the past 3 years (either intentionally or by omission) in the fight to get the fix (I am 22) and there have been time where I thought that I almost had earned my freedom. There are at least 2 studies confirming what I knew was true all along and it is time for me to get really fucking angry. The numbers do not lie.

This is the fucking elephant in the mother fucking pronatalist room and I have seen it in all its ugly, hairy, naked glory. Time to shove this shit up the pronatalists' asses and see what happens.