Child Free Does NOT Equal Child Hater

ChildFree Does NOT Equal Child Hater
In light of this public slander and prejudicial commentary made of late by Dr. Drew and others about Childfree people in general and Bratfree.com in particular, I'd like to set the record straight. While I know there is a small percentage of people who hate kids, like with everything else they are from all walks of life and include childfree people AS WELL AS childed people. Most childfree people loathe bad behavior from kids AS DO people with children! Does ANYONE LIKE bad kid behavior? I don't think so. As an example,I'd like to call it to the attention of everyone that, in that survey a few years back from frequent business flyers regarding not allowing little kids on flights, that 85% of those who condoned separate "family seating" areas were parents! Also, the majority of complaints in restaurants involving unruly kids are made by OTHER PARENTS.

It doesn't take a genius statistician to realize that, out of the tens of thousands of complaints about bad kid behavior in public, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for even half of them to be from childfree people as we are a small minority! The majority of our topics criticized as "kid hating" are actually our hating of bad behavior and anger against the parents who allow it to continue or who condone it. Speaking for myself and the vast majority of people who are childless BY CHOICE, I state the following:


1)We don't hate children just because they are kids. We generally have to get to know a person, JUST LIKE CHILDED PEOPLE, before we can make a decision as to whether we "hate" them.

2)We do NOT enjoy or desire for ANYONE, including children, to be mistreated, abused, or harmed by anyone else

3)We do NOT condone child abuse or neglect by anyone.

4)We do NOT condone or desire ANY child to be murdered.

5)We are INCENSED when parents harm or kill their kids. I consider it an especially heinous crime because they created these kids and are supposed to protect them as they are incapable of protecting themselves. Parents are in a position to legally AND morally protect their own children and when they don't OR when they are the abusers or killers, or they allow it to happen, they have totally abused their position of trust of an innocent being they voluntarily chose to create and raise. To me, when a parent is responsible for their own child's abuse or death it's worse than if a stranger had climbed into the window and done it.


My Personal Stance
Speaking only for myself and not intending to sound like an apologetic, but simply wanting to make my stance clear for the liars spouting falsehoods online lately regarding child-freedom, I do NOT hate kids. I am a beloved aunt of four, a kid magnet, a former teacher of kids, and I raised someone else's kid from age 2-15 many years ago and did a damned good job of it from all accounts. I just DO NOT WANT or desire to be a parent for a variety of reasons which do NOT include I hate kids or wish them any harm. The ONLY problem I have with badly behaving children lies squarely where it belongs and that is with their horrid parents.


We BAN Posters Who Condone Abuse OR Murder!
***Even ChildFree people who hate kids in general, that is they don't like anything about kids and avoid kids altogether, do NOT wish children any harm.. If ANYONE posts they condone murder of kids on this site they get BANNED as we do NOT condone the abuse or murder of anyone, including children.****

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Well said. hankyou

Thank you, Kim, for setting the record straight! :yr

Very well said!

I was hoping someone would post something like this, thank you!

Bravo Kim!

This needs to be made into a STICKY.

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I miss my little feather baby.

You are my favorite bratfree member, Kim.

Edit: Does that mean we can't say "I would have performed a post-natal abortion if I ever had a tard like that." Or even "lil' sizzlers are so obvious they should at least try to be creative--lil' floaters, lil' pancakes,or lil' poisonings."

Yep. I won't say that I like kids, but I can tolerate them for a little bit. Well-behaved children -- few and far between these days -- I probably don't even notice in public. But, there are plenty of spoiled, out-of-control little hellions running around these days.

I have a nephew. I certainly don't hate him, but a little goes a very long way. It's not particularly his fault; he has a loser drug-addicted neglectapotamus for a mother, and his father overindulges in order to try and make up for that I guess. I feel for the shitty home life, but I only have so much patience. If it's for an hour or even 2 at a time, I can probably handle it. The recent 5-day visit? unbearable.

He talks back; doesn't listen. He's not overweight but he eats like 3 adults rolled into one. He constantly helps himself to food, without asking, and having been told he's had enough. He's spilled food and moved furniture over/in front of it, leaving me to find it. He has to be in everything; including car repairs that he has no business in the middle of. He talks, non-stop at a hollering level, over everyone. I normally enjoy driving and have gone thousands of miles across the country. After 2 minutes in the car with him yammering and interrupting conversation while I was trying to drive, I thought I was on the verge of a panic attack. I don't normally have panic attacks.

That's just a small example of why I'm not under the spell of "zomg teh chyldrun!!!" I can handle it -- barely -- for brief periods of time; but I'd prefer to avoid it as much as possible. That does not make me a monster.

Kim, you don't owe that defense to anyone. It did not need to be said. Those who think "childfree" is the same as "child hater" are of such low intelligence as to be beneath contempt, and not worth the time it takes to explain even a single word to them.

Another view point...

I really dislike children as a whole. I find them loud, ignorant, destructive, and annoying. I regard them with the same thoughts as I do drunk college kids. I just simply do not like them. I dislike them because I view the behavior as ridiculous. If I saw a 20 something acting like the normal toddler, I would shoot them dirty looks too. And here's the REAL shocker.

I do not have to like your child

Period. End of story. I am a perfectly functional human being that just simply doesn't like the way children, as a whole, just ARE. And you know what, if no one likes that, CF or otherwise, they can shove it. My opinion on children doesn't make your or the child you associate with's life any shorter. So if that bothers anyone lurking, feel free to learn a new viewpoint.

That being said: I STILL, even though I generally don't like children, do not wish to see them harmed. It isn't hard to dislike something and still care for its well being. I mean shit, parents hate their kids all the time and they still get fed.

I just felt the need to speak up for the handful of us that just straight don't like children, as the apologetics on this topic get QUITE steep, and I don't need to seek redemption for a simple preference.

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catharsist
Another view point...

I really dislike children as a whole. I find them loud, ignorant, destructive, and annoying. I regard them with the same thoughts as I do drunk college kids. I just simply do not like them. I dislike them because I view the behavior as ridiculous. If I saw a 20 something acting like the normal toddler, I would shoot them dirty looks too. And here's the REAL shocker.

I do not have to like your child

Period. End of story. I am a perfectly functional human being that just simply doesn't like the way children, as a whole, just ARE. And you know what, if no one likes that, CF or otherwise, they can shove it. My opinion on children doesn't make your or the child you associate with's life any shorter. So if that bothers anyone lurking, feel free to learn a new viewpoint.

That being said: I STILL, even though I generally don't like children, do not wish to see them harmed. It isn't hard to dislike something and still care for its well being. I mean shit, parents hate their kids all the time and they still get fed.

I just felt the need to speak up for the handful of us that just straight don't like children, as the apologetics on this topic get QUITE steep, and I don't need to seek redemption for a simple preference.

This is pretty much me, too. Of course I don't want to see anyone harmed and I don't wish anyone harm.

However, that doesn't mean I like kyds or like being around them. My feelings typically range from complete lack of interest to outright dislike. Zero interest in the well-behaved ones and dislike of the bratty ones. And not just dislike of lax parents; it's a dislike of their obnoxious kyds, too. I don't give their kyds a pass just because "they don't know any better because they haven't been taught."

I don't like being around any of them, behaved or not, and especially don't like the very heavy societal pressure to focus on whatever chyuld is in the room, smile at it, and go talk to it, all in that sing-song-y, fakey voice filled with wonder and awe at the holy mirakul that is ~your chyuld. And no, I don't owe anyone any good reason for my complete lack of interest or dislike.

Like catharsist, I'm not fond of children. That's short-hand for saying that I'm not fond of a range of behaviors which are almost universally found among young children, but are not exclusively found among them:

• Innumerable questions which do not constitute lively discussion but basically boil down to "Why? Why? Why?"
• Inability to engage in nuanced conversation about topics such as politics, literature, philosophy and current events.
• Repeatitive pointless movement out of boredom, often resulting in the destruction of objects (e.g., kicking feet against the back of a bench and leaving scuff marks) or hurting people (e.g., kicking the back of the airline seat in front of them).
• Disregard for and lack of acknowledgement of others who share the space, for instance running into the street without taking into consideration the cyclist who will have to brake suddenly to avoid striking them.
• Persuing unwanted social interactions and failing to respond to social cues, for example by saying "Hi! Hi! Hi!" to someone minding her own business.
• Not recognizing personal space or property by touching other people or other people's things without permission.
• Poor personal hygiene and disgusting personal habits such as picking noses, coughing without covering the mouth, and playing with food.
• Painfully high-pitched voices that make my ears ache when employed at a volume quite unsuitable for indoors. Even just conversation is unpleasant, but when they shriek with glee, I need to check if my ears are bleeding.
• Attention-seeking crying when not in pain.
• Throwing a fit or whining when disappointed or simply tired.

And yet that does not mean I want to torture or murder children. It just means I don't want to spend time around them, and that I expect parents to make their children obey the social contract when they're in public.

I'm pretty sure nearly every person has imagined acts of violence which they would never actually commit. (I'm pretty sure most parents have envisioned hurting their children from time to time. I think their shame over this is why they so violently reject accepting that some parents do harm their children. Hence the defense of "suffered enough" for a parent who has killed, because it would be unthinkable to believe it is intentional, as that would suggest that it could have been you, if you'd snapped...) There's a gulf between entertaining these daydreams and actually acting on them, and people who aren't busy denying their own feelings acknowledge this. If a childfree person lets off a bit of steam by talking about how they want to smack someone on the face with a trout, to an audience of other childfree people, that can hardly be taken as a credible threat. Obviously, it is hyperbole and it serves an important function as a safety valve to keep people from actually doing the sorts of things that may cross their mind but which they recognize would be unethical, illegal, and generally not a good idea. That this concept actually needs to be explained to some people is evidence of how bubble-wrapped the world is becoming.

If I started listing what I dislike about breeders this post would be way too long. But they are the real problem, because children just haven't been taught how to behave in public. Children aren't the ones demanding privileges and if they think they're the center of the world it isn't their fault because they haven't matured. Breeders, on the other hand...

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night owl
However, that doesn't mean I like kyds or like being around them. My feelings typically range from complete lack of interest to outright dislike. Zero interest in the well-behaved ones and dislike of the bratty ones.

Me too: I'm indifferent to well-behaved ones and dislike the ones that are bothering me.

I find children to be difficult to be around as a whole, but then, I'm severely introverted and find most people difficult to be around as a whole. Children, though, don't really have a concept of personal boundaries, and it's pretty much guaranteed that my personal bubble of introversion is going to be intruded upon if I cross paths with one out in public. The whining, the fidgeting, the staring, the expectation that everything they do is going to be lauded as precious by everyone around them, the fact that they shout instead of talk at a normal decibel all the damn time... You know what? It's not children that annoy me, it's the rudeness that follows them around like a stink cloud. Parents are so wrapped up in adoring their kids they don't bother to teach them manners or basic consideration for others.

It's not just children who annoy me in public. People who insist on whistling or singing along to the song on the muzak system make me want to stab someone. I encounter rude adults sometimes. But I've been conditioned like one of Pavlov's dogs to cringe whenever I see a child, because nine times out of ten the kid is going to act like a undisciplined beast and make itself unbearable to be around.

If parents want people to stop complaining about their kids' behavior they need to do something about it. I'm sick of the mentality that kids get a pass for everything because they're kids. I certainly knew how to act properly from a young age - it is entirely possible to teach children manners. I see a lot of commentary from parents amounting to "if you don't want to be bothered by anyone, don't go out in public!!" Wrong. I certainly have the right to go out with an expectation that I won't be harassed by your kids' noise or foul behavior.

I'm with catharsist - I don't have to like your kid. And yes, if you let your kid interrupt my day by allowing it to act like a undisciplined brat around me, I will give you the stink eye. Just like I would give anyone acting like a rude idiot the stink eye. And, for the record, not liking your kid does not equal me wanting to see your kid suffer.

Parents need to get over themselves and stop expecting that everyone is going to adore their kids. It is not the end of the world or the second apocalypse if some people don't like children.

I DO NOT OWE ANY PARENT MY LOVE/INTEREST/AFFECTION FOR THEIR KID(S).

Want to have them without thinking and for the stupidest reasons? Go right ahead. Just don't drag me into it or try to forcibly convince me to join your "exclusive elite common shit club".
Want to kill/neglect/abuse them because you realize they're not dolls but actual human beings? I do not have sympathy or mercy for you. Kill yourself and see if I give a fuck.

That is all.

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"Don't you know how to deal with children?!"
"I don't like animals who act on instinct."
I think you're on to something Akihiko.

I do not want any harm to come to children. In fact I'm outraged by bad parenting and parents that would be cruel to their kids. If you breed them, feed them and take care of them. If you didn't want them, you should have thought about that so :bedmadelie Most people these days have a choice, and you do not have to listen to society's expectations to breed.


I usually do not care for the company of children and do not wish to spend my time with them for the reasons some people have posted above. I do not see why that is a problem, and I do not see why people need to shove their kids or breeding in our face constantly.

A brief story of bratty chyld behavior, the sort that NO ONE likes regardless of childed/childfree status:

Was just in White House Black Market yesterday (not a place I frequent, though I like their things). My better half is quite understanding about my need to browse sale racks, so while we're poking around a Moo of about 40 or so with two young girls comes in. The Moo is at the counter gabbing with a sales person, and the girls are busy running amok. They might have been around 8 or 9, but way too old for that kind of behavior. One kept up a steady "Mom...Mom...Mom..." Also wanted to try on some shoes there. If you've seen their shoes, you know they aren't for kyds. Oy veh! At some point, the two sprogs knock over some stuff. "Mom, I didn't do it! I didn't do it!" Ad nauseam. No, that mean ol' poltergeist tipped over that stuff! :

At least oblivious Moo and the kyds left before I paid for my purchases. Damn, how do parunts tune out that crap? Just insufferable...

It takes a child to raze a village.

We don't need to explain or justify anything as to why we are CF. If non-CF people don't like us, it's their problem, not ours. I am CF because I do not want kids. Period. End of discussion. If parents cannot accept that, then too bad for them. Their feelings, anxieties, reasons, and thoughts mean nothing to me. Their life, their problem. We shouldn't have to explain, or justify our lives to them. If they don't like what they read here, then they shouldn't lurk here. Their life, their problem.

I'm also with catharsist on this one.

I don't like children. I'm aware that they're not necessarily bad people, but I don't enjoy their company. They have no sense of boundaries, hygiene or social etiquette - yes, that goes for your kid too, Moo-of-super-speshul-and-sooo-well-behaved-chyyyld - and they're awkward. Yes, I know all children are individuals, but they are ALL young and they are ALL still learning. Since they're not my spawn, it's not my responsibility to be a part of their learning process and I have ZERO interest in it. There have been kids whom I liked, I won't lie, but they're VERY few and far between, and I could still tolerate their company only for a short while at a time.
Having said that, I'm always polite to children unless they're total brats (even then, I'll almost always take it with the parent first if I can). Even though I don't choose to be in their company, I'm not mean or impolite to a person of any age unless their behavoir warrants it. Harm is the last thing I wish upon them. Boyfriend and I even helped a lost sprog while people - many of them being famblees with children - passed her by without even giving her a second look (because PMYABP, as you knoweyes2). We did it not because we secretly want to be around human larvae, but because we didn't want a person in need to be hurt. But I don't owe jack shit to your spawn - a conversation, a learning experience, watching over them or even help - nothing. I'm not here for your child's entertainment.

Sorry for all the rambling.


Edit: Typo.

I don't have low self-esteem. That's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else.
-Daria

I think our diverse feelings on it and commentary on this topic prove my point. "ChildFree people", like every other group of like minded individuals, come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Most importantly though, as far as the topic at hand goes, is that although our opinions run the gamut of hating kids in general and avoiding them entirely, being tolerant of certain kids and liking specific ones, to indifference, NO ONE has stated they condone abuse, neglect, or the murder of kids, which is what the libelous slanderers have recently alluded to and WHY I started this topic. It isn't a debate about anyone's "level of Child-Freeness" or claiming there's a right or wrong way to be Child-Free, rather it's a statement that "those Child-Free people", as a whole, DO NOT condone harm to kids, at the very very least. The biggest difference here is "we" don't wish murder on ANYONE, including children.:headbrick

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

I just can not resist baiting some trolls into admitting their murderous tendencies. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with the parents that try to infiltrate here thinking wannabe killer attitudes will make them seem cool to us. Nothing will make anyone seem cool. You either are or are not.

It is easy to remember being a child, with all the awkward moments that entails. Doesn't make me appreciate little shits in public, but I know it is all down to the parents, not the kids.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe all of them are innocent widdle anjul babbies, but the worst damage parents can do is done before the age of two, and by and large I think the little sociopaths out there were born to fucking psycho breeder brains who dehumanize their babies into THINGS, not nascent people.

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milenascarlet
I DO NOT OWE ANY PARENT MY LOVE/INTEREST/AFFECTION FOR THEIR KID(S).

Want to have them without thinking and for the stupidest reasons? Go right ahead. Just don't drag me into it or try to forcibly convince me to join your "exclusive elite common shit club".
Want to kill/neglect/abuse them because you realize they're not dolls but actual human beings? I do not have sympathy or mercy for you. Kill yourself and see if I give a fuck.

That is all.

This is EXACTLY how I feel too. Very well said.

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I miss my little feather baby.

I'm indifferent to most children, though I have run across a few I've liked to some degree. What I hate is annoying behavior and noise, and children exhibit a lot both. I hate Kahyleigh in the pizza restaurant because she's screaming at full blast, and I hate Paetyn in the grocery store because he's running around creating a hazard.

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But I don't owe jack shit to your spawn - a conversation, a learning experience, watching over them or even help - nothing.

This brings to mind a few things I hate about too many modern parents:

*Their whining about people who refuse to acknowledge their preciouses in public, (most of the whining on Fakebook, to which they post continuously all day)
*Their whining they deserve something because they are parents or single parents
*Their disdain toward child free, using terminology such as "You don't know what tired is" and "You don't know what true love is" and "You can't be broke, you don't have children"
*"But they're just kids!" as an excuse for results of lack of discipline


And a few things about the pro-natalism attitude in society:

*Only children are important, let's focus heavily on children's charities and guilt trip for not contributing
*Disproportionate requests for votes to increase taxes for things that benefit only childed families
*Employers favoring the childed, more benefits at jobs for the childed
*Dual income married couples seen as some sort of 'cash cow' for the government through high taxes

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It's not just children who annoy me in public. People who insist on whistling or singing along to the song on the muzak system make me want to stab someone.

Same here. There's a whistling oaf who works in the produce section of my closest-by decent grocery store. He works on weekends and that's when I shop; yes I could shop during my work week but I pull 12 hour days and it's not convenient. Anyway, I heard Oaf say I'm Happy To Be Alive or some type shit to another customer one day. Well, goody gumdrops for him. But he whistles along to any song which comes on the radio. And loudly. It's skull piercing and nearly drives me bat shit insane. I try to ignore it when I am in the section and get out as soon as possible. One day I must have had a nasty look on my face. He told me, "Smiyuule, it's not THAT BAD!" That earned him an even nastier look to which he acted all butt hurt. I swear he remembers me because since then he's avoided me (even though he still whistles). Fortunately, today he was not on shift when I was shopping.

BTW, I have imagined a variety of ways of him meeting his demise :flaming
, and same imagining for obnoxious children. I would not actually harm anyone, though.

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rudegubmintworker
*Their disdain toward child free, using terminology such as "You don't know what tired is" and "You don't know what true love is" and "You can't be broke, you don't have children"

Try having insomnia, bitch. Try studying in a very demanding school program. Try having a job.

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rudegubmintworker
*"But they're just kids!" as an excuse for results of lack of discipline

They're "just kids" when they misbehave, yet "they're people too" when they end up not allowed somewhere because of the way they act (due to, you know, just being kids).

I don't have low self-esteem. That's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else.
-Daria

Well, I actually do dislike children quite intensely - I dislike anyone who's loud, rude and stupid and children just happen to be all three of those things naturally, and I find infants and toddlers utterly repulsive.

BUT - I don't particularly want to see them being abused. I'm not gonna like the obnoxious little bastards any time soon, but I'm not in favour of seeing them beaten, left in hot cars, allowed to be molested by Moo's Dick of the Week.

And don't get me started on those stories about the infants born without brains being kept alive, most likely in agony and with no ability to understand what's happening. That takes a level of cruelty and selfishness I can't fathom.

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mypersonality.info

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it."
George Bernard Shaw

"An oyster can play catch if u only give it the oprotunity"
Some random YouTube commenter

"hate comments will be deleted!! fuckers!"
Some random YouTube uploader

This is an excellent thread.

The "funny" thing is that we live in a topsy-turvy world where if you don't have kids but dislike kids, you are, somehow, responsible for children being harmed. You are, somehow, the one to be glared at. To be blamed. To be hated.

The thing is, THE PARENTS are literally responsible for their biological children being harmed. This includes the parents who are not abusive to their bio-kids. Here's why: When you create a child, you create a person who will suffer and die. You create a person who WILL be harmed. If your child is injured in any way, shape, or fashion, it is YOUR fault, end of story. Because if they did not exist, they would not experience harm. Very simple.

Instead of taking ANY responsibility for their actions, it's common for parents to take their understandable frustrations/anger/hurt/etc. out on the wrong groups and act like the childfree, especially childfree people who don't like children, are the bad guys. ANYONE. ANYTHING. Is the bad guy but themselves. It's 100% absurd but it's hard to realize this because even the childfree have been brainwashed to feel apologetic for who we are even if we've done nothing wrong.

If you like kids, that's just how you feel. If you hate kids, that's just how you feel. I'm indifferent to kids, but I can understand why some childfree don't like kids. They do require you to shut your mind down to deal with them and they are difficult to deal with because their brains aren't fully developed, and not everyone's personality meshes well with kids. (This includes a good amount of parents as well, though many pretend that they looooove raising their kids SO MUCH)

Unless you go around being mean to children (I'm talking doing hurtful things to them. Not liking them is not mean), you have nothing to be ashamed about. You have nothing to apologize for. No justification is required from you. We live in a world where parents tell US to apologize for NOT being responsible for kids getting hurted/killed. I'd laugh if it weren't so deranged.

Metaphorically speaking, a childfree person who hates kids, is wearing a "DON'T PUT KIDS NEAR ME" shirt, and is standing near a traffic-heavy road is MILES AWAY from parents who put their bio-kids ON the goddamn road and hope that they don't get seriously injured or killed by a car or truck. "FUN" FACT: They WILL get hit by at least one vehicle. And, more than likely, the parents will blame the childfree person for, um, not stopping the truck that's going 60+ mph.

If someone needs to look in the mirror and be concerned, it's the bio-parents or would-be bio-parents. THEY are the ones who fucked up, not us.

NOTE: To any lurking parents who are confused by the above: I am NOT advocating for the murder of biological parents and/or their children. I am against suffering and death. The thing is, I don't pretend that parents are not responsible for what happens to their biological children, unlike most parents. I don't pretend that suffering is justifiable. I am the person that you should fear the least.

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Anti-natalist & Parenting License advocate.