Smothering articles: spawning again and postpartum rage

I occasionally get Commode funnies delivered to the inbox of a junk/free samples email because I may or may not have made a throwaway account on the site to access the lulzy miscarriage late period section (which was, at the time, members-only).

Anyway, a couple of the more amusing articles included in this month's newsletter are as follows:


http://www.mothering.com/articles/urge-another-baby/
First one is a Moo of five who is feeling that familiar quivering and frothing in her loins now that her youngest has been weaned. She started at 23 and her eldest is 15, meaning Moo herself is pushing 40. Not a good time to breed again.

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Moooooo
After so many years of being in the pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding cycle I sometimes wonder if my body is now hardwired this way, caught on a loop. Or is having another baby the easy thing to do, the comfortable choice? Nudging my business along and stepping out into the world as a professional would be the most challenging thing I could do in life right now – it is the area holding the most potential for self growth.

Well sure, when your life revolves around shit, puke, not sleeping, not having fun, ferrying screaming brats to various extra-curricular activities and trying to cook food to please the palates of seven people for a decade and a half, you probably don't know how to do anything else with your life.

And I gotta give a big, fat, resounding NO to a Moo-run business venture. Starting one's own business takes a lot of time (and overtime), money and effort, not to mention some knowledge of the basics. I would not trust a breeder-run business; you know she'll cut corners and be stretched far too thin between family and work to do either job effectively and the quality of service will be in the shitter.

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Moooooo
My husband is not keen for another baby, and now that our youngest is a toddler life has become that little bit easier. We can go out at night. We can take on more commitments and begin to work more purposefully toward our goals. We are enjoying the extra freedom, I am enjoying it. Then there is the financial pressure of another mouth to feed, and the social pressure that looks down on large families as the resources of our planet are gradually stretched.

But my heart, and that urge that flicks on like a switch but feels impossible to switch off. I am between a rock and a hard place – scared to rock the boat and the balance we have achieved by giving into my deep yearnings, and scared that I will one day be living with regret about not following my heart.

Bitch, shut the hell up and be grateful for what ya got. Five damn kids that, as far as I can tell, are alive and healthy. You have a husband that stuck with your ass in spite of five kids and still loves you enough to want to go out with you and do adult things with you. He doesn't want another one, probably because he doesn't feel like paying for another loaf when the oldest one is getting close to getting the fuck out of the house and the youngest one just got off the bottle/tit. Take the hint.

Just because you get an urge doesn't mean you have to act on it. That's the great thing about being a human being (an allegedly intelligent life form): you have the mental capacity to think about shit and weigh the pros and cons before making a decision rather than acting on impulses. Ten bucks says she "convinces" Duh to have another one (read: oopses him).

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http://www.mothering.com/articles/postpartum-rage-start-lose-control/
Second story is about postpartum rage. Not depression, but screeching, murderous rage. The author discusses how she almost pounds her six-year-old into ground beef because the stupid brat almost kicked Moo's preemie loaf in the head.

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Moooooo
I knew I hadn’t hurt my eldest when I put her in her booster seat, at least not physically. What left me shaking was not just the adrenaline rush but the disturbing, painfully clear realization that I had wanted to hurt her, and that it had taken an alarming amount of restraint to not hit her. In some horrible, dark corner of my heart, I wanted her to suffer and feel ashamed

To be honest, I think that's a rational response when someone almost kicks your loaf's head in, even if that someone is also your child. This is the story of just about every single Moo in the Gentle Discipline forum over there: you can tell from their writing that they're just itching to beat their brats to a pulp, but they "can't" for reasons only they seem to understand.

The thing I don't like is when these heifers will wax poetic about how much they'd like to wail on their bastards, but then end their tirades with a line of bullshit regret. Then all the other heifers flock to them, offer hugs and udder rubs and say shit like, "Oh mama, you're doing so good! You're just having a bad day." Some even admit they hit their kids and then boo-hoo about it. Seems like you can do anything to your kids, so long as you pretend to be upset about it afterward.

I think if these cows just spanked their fuckin' kids when they misbehaved, they wouldn't have all this pent-up frustration and rage as they attempt to "gently" discipline the fuckers. I think almost booting a loaf in the head is grounds for a good ass-beating. And if they do "lose control" and spank the kids or yell at them deservedly, they undo any progress by apologizing to the child. This Moo should not have apologized to her brat because that gives the impression that Moo's reaction was not justified, and as said, I think it was. Let that fuckin' six-year-old know what a little cunt she was; let her be upset and brood for a while knowing Mommy yelled at her and was pissed. It does a kid good to know when they do wrong so they don't do it again.

However, I don't feel the least bit sorry for these women. They chose to breed multiple times, and since they can't deal with all their stair-step children at the same time, they attach an important-sounding clinical term to what is, plain and simply, a combination of anger, frustration and buyer's remorse. Ever notice how a lot of Moos have postpartum depression for like ten years? I think this postpartum rage is just the kewl, trendeigh new thing Moos think they can be affected by.

Most people would get pissed off trying to wrangle a six-year-old, a four-year-old and an infant. It's called being human. It's not a medical condition. If ya can't hack it, Moo, sell the loaf while it's still cute and desirable and keep the older two.

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Cambion

http://www.mothering.com/articles/urge-another-baby/
First one is a Moo of five who is feeling that familiar quivering and frothing in her loins now that her youngest has been weaned. She started at 23 and her eldest is 15, meaning Moo herself is pushing 40. Not a good time to breed again.

Don't these people ever think of their lives in linear terms? By the time the kid goes off to college, she'll be pushing 60 years old. And then what? While all of your friends are discussing retirement, you're going to be starting a business? Considering the amount of time and energy which must be devoted to getting a business off the ground, that will be darn near impossible for someone who is 60 years old AND has never had to answer to ANYONE in the adult world before.

What's happening here is a woman who is leaning toward choosing the path of least resistance, once again. Her husband should've divorced her years ago, but now he's stuck.

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Moo #1
Nudging my business along and stepping out into the world as a professional would be the most challenging thing I could do in life right now – it is the area holding the most potential for self growth.

Moo doesn't admit that growing as a person, doing something new, and stepping out beyond one's comfort zone are all scary. I seriously doubt that someone who has defined herself by the products of her reproductive organs for her adult life is capable of these things. She'll take the socially-acceptable escape route for females and have another kid. Or she'll get her "business" going, and discover it's though and have an oopsie so she can retreat back into the "safe" confines of defining herself through another person.

Quite often, trolls here and IRL tell the childfree they are "scared" of having kids. While I'm realistic about what I see as the drudgery of having kids, I'm not "scared" to have kids. I am a competent person; I usually succeed at whatever I set my mind to. The parenting lifestyle is something I simply don't want.

Figuring out who you are and what you want to do with your life and developing your own identity outside of another person, whether it be a spouse, a child or a parent, are hard. Figuring out what kind of paid employment you can stand so that you can support yourself, and doing it for 40 years--that's hard. But it's part of being an adult: supporting yourself, not leeching off another person, and having your own identity. Those are the things that make you a grownup, not engaging your reproductive organs.

IMO, there are a lot of women out there who are really scared of NOT having kids. First of all, there's the social pressure they would face. . (CF = social pariah. Your marriage isn't real, you aren't a real woman, blah blah blah. Not to mention there are a fair # of men out there (at least I encountered them) who want the woman to have kids, because it really doesn't affect them all that much.)

If women didn't have their kids, they might be expected to develop an identity outside their kids. They might have to deal with their husbands as a real adult facing another adult, and negotiate the relationship they want, rather than manipulating or guilting their husbands into what they want because the are The Mama.

Men don't have the socially-acceptable way to retire from life. Men are still expected to support themselves and any offspring they have.

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Cambion

Just because you get an urge doesn't mean you have to act on it. That's the great thing about being a human being (an allegedly intelligent life form): you have the mental capacity to think about shit and weigh the pros and cons before making a decision rather than acting on impulses. Ten bucks says she "convinces" Duh to have another one (read: oopses him).

Exactly. I saw some hot guys at a death metal concert I went to recently ("regular" looking guys don't really do it for me a whole lot, hah). I got the urge to grab their junk to feel if they were impressive below the belt, as well. What can I say, I love the cock. But I didn't, because:

1. I am married, I love my hubby, and we abide by the "look, don't touch" rule, and
2. I can control myself, unlike mindless fucking breeder-brains, even though all logic and caution says not to drop that loaf, they still go ahead and do it.

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If women didn't have their kids, they might be expected to develop an identity outside their kids. They might have to deal with their husbands as a real adult facing another adult, and negotiate the relationship they want, rather than manipulating or guilting their husbands into what they want because the are The Mama.

THIS!! up

AND

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After so many years of being in the pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding cycle I sometimes wonder if my body is now hardwired this way, caught on a loop.

Probably so. She has become a brood cow who waddles about, shits out a calf, and then stick her udders in a milking machine for a couple of years (unless she lets the kids suck on her until they are 3 or 4). :BS

Bitch needs to read this article before her marriage is fucked for good.

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/01/i_called_him_pathetic_he_accused_me_of_ruining_his_life_what_children_did_to_our_marriage/

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aliceblue
Bitch needs to read this article before her marriage is fucked for good.

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/01/i_called_him_pathetic_he_accused_me_of_ruining_his_life_what_children_did_to_our_marriage/

And the last line says it all, doesn't it? After all this, and yet she has learned nothing, and she sees this unending and overwhelming chaos as some kind of beautiful scrambled mess that they've made together, i.e., their unity as a couple ~ togetherness. Oh wow was that article just depressing.

So glad I must be missing whatever gene it is that makes me completely immune to that "siren call," or the "urges" aka

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Cambion
that familiar quivering and frothing

larious in the loins that the Moooothering moos seem to have that just compels them to neeeeeed to be preeeeeeeegnant. IDGI.

That salon article. What. the. Fuck?

I'm completely speechless at the stupidity of both parties.

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We made the decision over a lunch of hamburgers and tears (mine). I don’t know how other couples navigate the rocky terrain of major marital disagreement, but we boiled it down to this: My desire for a third kid was greater than my husband’s desire not to have one. He was OK with the prospect of another child, at least in theory. But he couldn’t go back to diapers the color of mustard, to mewling cries in the dead of night. He made it clear to me that he didn’t have it in him to do that again.

These people utterly astound me. Why did these idiots proceed when one of them was only okay with having another baybee "in theory." In theory? I have to put that in big font because you aren't debating the merits of going out to dinner. You are talking about bringing another person to the crowded rock, about fucking up someone else's LIFE when they see their parents fighting and resentful and they grow up with a parent who didn't want them.

And of course they took the leap and Wifey ended up with TWINS.

And they call the CF selfish?

I don't get this moo logic - you've found someone, you're happy together, so the next logical step is... to fuck it up by introducing another (very needy and demanding) person to your relationship? Lolwut?

This is yet another reason I don't want any DNA replicants. I love my other half* and I don't want to share him with anyone. If that makes me selfish, then fine.

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night owl
So glad I must be missing whatever gene it is that makes me completely immune to that "siren call," or the "urges" aka

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Cambion
that familiar quivering and frothing

larious in the loins that the Moooothering moos seem to have that just compels them to neeeeeed to be preeeeeeeegnant. IDGI.

When I experience quivering and frothing, it usually means I'm about to puke (probably because I'm hungover).

*To any lurking moos whose relationships have turned to shit: WE'RE DOING GREAT. Been together 4 years and we still act like we just got together. In fact, yesterday, he spontaneously sang A Heart Full of Love from Les Mis to me. When was the last time your sperm donor did something romantic and silly for you? Bite me! :yeah

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mypersonality.info

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it."
George Bernard Shaw

"An oyster can play catch if u only give it the oprotunity"
Some random YouTube commenter

"hate comments will be deleted!! fuckers!"
Some random YouTube uploader

Did the guy from the salon article not realize his wife was not dealing with a full deck when she was weaping over hamburgers to have another baby? That man should have been on the phone making an appointment for the Big V in between bites. But the wife, WHAT a disrespectful idiot. Her husband is flat out telling her he doesn't want a baby. Instead of trying to meet him part-way, asking if he would consider adopting or fostering an older child she must have the pregnancy and DNA replicant. Both of them are horrible people.

That moo in the Slate article is a lying whore. She tried to blame them having the first kid on her husband. I went to her blog, like the third post down she says....


"I had a plan for my family. I wanted three children. If you had asked me before, I would have said this: two boys, relatively close in age, and then maybe a girl, though I wasn’t bothered about the sex. I would wait a little longer to have the third child—settle the first one into school, break the back of the second’s toddlerhood—so I could appreciate fully that last ride round the carousel of new motherhood. So I could swill it in my mouth like the fine wine it is."


She planned this whole thing, it was the twin business that messed it up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you can't feed your baby, then don't have a baby. And don't think maybe, if you can't feed your baby."
- The wisdom of the late Michael Jackson
"The mother of the year should be a sterilized woman with two adopted children." - Paul Ehrlich

Vasectomy. They're both stupid. Honestly, I think it's hilarious that they had twins. What a shitshow!

These woman don't know enough to get some new hobbies to keep their time occupied. Nope. Thus the "need" to breed.

The re-breeding Moo says it herself: "Or is having another baby the easy thing to do, the comfortable choice?" Obviously not physically comfortable, but emotionally and mentally comfortable because it's not only familiar territory, it's really the only territory she has known for most of her adult life. All she knows how to do is mooooooo. And maybe she's an alright parent and her kids aren't assholes like most are. Who knows.

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bell_flower
If women didn't have their kids, they might be expected to develop an identity outside their kids. They might have to deal with their husbands as a real adult facing another adult, and negotiate the relationship they want, rather than manipulating or guilting their husbands into what they want because the are The Mama.

So very true. Being a Moo is everything to women: an excuse, a way out, an often sole identity, a job title, a perceived symbol of authority and maturity, and proof of fertility, fuckability and heterosexuality. I think the more insecure and unconfident a woman is about herself and her life, the more likely she is to breed. By not having kids, a woman isn't "special." I think a lot of women know that being a Moo is the only way to be considered a "mature" adult while still being able to act immature and do allegedly immature things like watching cartoons while eating dinosaur-shaped chicken nuggets. If you do that shit as an unchilded adult, people huff at you or think there's something wrong with you. But if you're a breeder, somehow it's acceptable.

Negotiation, discussing things, having a personality and an identity all their own... these are all marks of an adult, but they all also require special effort that some women are not willing to put forth. It's just easier to spread and sluice because the title of Mommy is relatable (in the sense that so many other women are Moos), it's an easy role to fill, there's plenty of support, you get more welfare benefits, and breeding is Just What You Do When You Grow Up^TM.

And that Salon article is so full of breederific fail. The author and her husband seemed to be pretty happy with their decision to have the first kid, so why the fuck throw another kid into the mix? The first one was still young enough to need a lot of attention, and then the second loaf turned out to be a typical asshole baby that cried all the time. But fine, whatever. That's how you learn to shut down the babby oven, but what gets me is that these two idiots were already starting to unravel at the seams due to the kids and they decide to have another one. Then they throw snake eyes and wind up with twins, and even though neither really wanted two more loaves, they refused to reduce the pignancy by half because, I'm sure, they'd spend the surviving maggot's childhood thinking about what the other kid would have been like.

Of course, they cap the article at the end with a typical cliche line of breeder bullshit: a poetic variation of It's All Worth It^TM. She's fooling herself if she thinks her relationship with her husband will ever be anything like what it was. If he sticks around until all the loaves are out of the house, there will almost certainly be no spark left between them and they'll be more like roommates. Those little smiles that creep across his face occasionally are probably the result of Duh having gone through the five stages of acceptance. He's just finally landed on that final step where he looks at his shithole of a life and tries real hard to find something worth smiling about so he doesn't kill himself or his family. That, or he's got a piece on the side that isn't childed.

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catharsist
Vasectomy. They're both stupid. Honestly, I think it's hilarious that they had twins. What a shitshow!

So this.
He wasn't oopsed. He consented to both pregnancies and anybody with two working brain cells knows that twins can happen and it isn't terribly uncommon.
Also, fuck both of them for putting this shit on the Internet for their brats to read later.
I don't object to being honest about the perils of breeding but it should not be done so the unwanted spawn can find it later.
Both of them should sucked it up and raised their kids. And they are both still assholes who shouldn't have so much as a pet snail, much less kids. As it is, they should get over it, including the Lookmydickwerx half of the couple.

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Cambion

Negotiation, discussing things, having a personality and an identity all their own... these are all marks of an adult, but they all also require special effort that some women are not willing to put forth. It's just easier to spread and sluice because the title of Mommy is relatable (in the sense that so many other women are Moos), it's an easy role to fill, there's plenty of support, you get more welfare benefits, and breeding is Just What You Do When You Grow Up^TM.

Many of these moos are afraid of being known for enjoying sex. In some circles sex is only accepted by the herd if the woman does it for reproduction. This is a part and parcel of our Puritan society.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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StudioFiftyFour

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Cambion

http://www.mothering.com/articles/urge-another-baby/
First one is a Moo of five who is feeling that familiar quivering and frothing in her loins now that her youngest has been weaned. She started at 23 and her eldest is 15, meaning Moo herself is pushing 40. Not a good time to breed again.

Don't these people ever think of their lives in linear terms? By the time the kid goes off to college, she'll be pushing 60 years old. And then what? While all of your friends are discussing retirement, you're going to be starting a business?

From what I can tell, the answer is NO. All the moos think of their widdle babby as an infant forever, and some of the duhs do too - especially with girl-sprogs. In fact, I kind of this this is a tell-tale sign of a future breeder - can you look at something and see the long term or are you forever seeing the "here & now, as long as it's infantilized." If you can envision something 20+ years in the future, and it doesn't involve grandbrats, congrats you might not be a breeder!

Actually, from what I can tell, long term linear thinking is a problem for most people, which probably explains why most people are breeders. A good friend of mine just bought a business (she took it over from her former boss) and her long term thinking just isn't there right now. *Everything* is here and now. I think the longest she's thought into the future is a couple of weeks. It's driving me crazy. And she is 33, with no kids (although she does have 4 doggies), and is nearly killing herself to keep this *already established* business running and afloat. Breederwoman up there? She hasn't got a chance. She has a better chance of being accepted here than running a successful business. And I know what this place would do to her. mob :satan wink

And that Salon article made me sick. How ANYONE can live through that or read it and think 'it's allllllll wooooorth it, mooooo' and/or 'yep, lets do that' baffles me. That marriage is doomed. That marriage was doomed a long time ago, but they just keep throwing grenades at it. Fuck that. I'd rather be single the rest of my life than live in a marriage with someone I think is pathetic, or who thinks that I ruined his life. Breeder logic. WTF.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde

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amethyst114


From what I can tell, the answer is NO. All the moos think of their widdle babby as an infant forever, and some of the duhs do too - especially with girl-sprogs. In fact, I kind of this this is a tell-tale sign of a future breeder - can you look at something and see the long term or are you forever seeing the "here & now, as long as it's infantilized." If you can envision something 20+ years in the future, and it doesn't involve grandbrats, congrats you might not be a breeder!

Actually, from what I can tell, long term linear thinking is a problem for most people, which probably explains why most people are breeders. A good friend of mine just bought a business (she took it over from her former boss) and her long term thinking just isn't there right now. *Everything* is here and now. I think the longest she's thought into the future is a couple of weeks. It's driving me crazy. And she is 33, with no kids (although she does have 4 doggies), and is nearly killing herself to keep this *already established* business running and afloat. Breederwoman up there? She hasn't got a chance. She has a better chance of being accepted here than running a successful business. And I know what this place would do to her. mob :satan wink

But isn't that just... well... dumb?

When you're pushing 60 years old, if you still have your health, and if you've done your due diligence in saving, that can truly be a great time for a person or a couple. That time can be used for rest, travel, and doing the things in life you always wanted to do, but never could because of time or work constraints.

I'm not knocking the millenials specifically here, but the mentality in this country is becoming one where "adulthood" isn't starting at 18... or 21... or 25... and it's largely becoming undefined. Hell, this generation is permitted to stay on their parents' health insurance plans through age 26! So if you're cranking out kids in your late 30s, you could be literally 65 years old and still have them living at home.

I think it's entirely possible that these late 30s/early 40s hipster helicopter parents will have all kinds of regret and resentment when their children are still living in their home in 2040 and they're working into their 70s...

Studio, I agree with your assessment of the numerous idiots who are failing to launch. However, I don't have so much a problem with waiting to breed as I do waiting to become an adult. Part of this is the Lifescript idea that one grows up between 18 and 21, is married by 25 and breeding within the next few years. I don't think marriage or breeding are signs of adulthood but I am fucking sick to death of people who won't start their own lives until their late twenties and "boomerang" back by the early thirties. I'm not talking about people who are caring for ailing parents or grandparents (and yay to my husband who approved the dependent relocation benefit for his single, CF employee who was primary caretaker to his elderly grandfather) or people who are disabled. I don't think not marrying, not spawning, spending money on hobbies or travel rather than brats makes one a child. I do think being a permanent dependent for no reason other than a personal choice is crap (and no, I'm not talking about a multi generation household where all contribute, I'm talking about people who contribute nothing to the household as if they were still 15).

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evilchildlessbitch
Studio, I agree with your assessment of the numerous idiots who are failing to launch. However, I don't have so much a problem with waiting to breed as I do waiting to become an adult. Part of this is the Lifescript idea that one grows up between 18 and 21, is married by 25 and breeding within the next few years. I don't think marriage or breeding are signs of adulthood but I am fucking sick to death of people who won't start their own lives until their late twenties and "boomerang" back by the early thirties. I'm not talking about people who are caring for ailing parents or grandparents (and yay to my husband who approved the dependent relocation benefit for his single, CF employee who was primary caretaker to his elderly grandfather) or people who are disabled. I don't think not marrying, not spawning, spending money on hobbies or travel rather than brats makes one a child. I do think being a permanent dependent for no reason other than a personal choice is crap (and no, I'm not talking about a multi generation household where all contribute, I'm talking about people who contribute nothing to the household as if they were still 15).

ecb, Let me be clear in that I am in no way endorsing any kind of a LifeScript (TM) pathway. I do not care what kind of lifestyle people choose to live. What I certainly do believe is that there will be a lot of dysfunction and resentment in the LifeScript if current trends continue and the late 30s/early 40s breeding carries on.

Hypothetically, at age 40, the pahrunts breed and think that little Johnny is going to grow up to be wonderful. Twenty years later, he's not in college and is smoking pot in the basement, where he lives. They were expecting a "cancer curer" and instead got a LifeScript which they had not at all anticipated. What kind of resentment is that going to fuel? They're 60 years old and wanting to spend their time and energy on some of the things you've mentioned--travel and hobbies--and instead, they're dealing with a dependent who is unlikely to leave anytime soon. And with automation being what we think it will be in 2035, there will be significantly fewer decent wage jobs and significantly more Johnny's!

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StudioFiftyFour

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evilchildlessbitch
Studio, I agree with your assessment of the numerous idiots who are failing to launch. However, I don't have so much a problem with waiting to breed as I do waiting to become an adult. Part of this is the Lifescript idea that one grows up between 18 and 21, is married by 25 and breeding within the next few years. I don't think marriage or breeding are signs of adulthood but I am fucking sick to death of people who won't start their own lives until their late twenties and "boomerang" back by the early thirties. I'm not talking about people who are caring for ailing parents or grandparents (and yay to my husband who approved the dependent relocation benefit for his single, CF employee who was primary caretaker to his elderly grandfather) or people who are disabled. I don't think not marrying, not spawning, spending money on hobbies or travel rather than brats makes one a child. I do think being a permanent dependent for no reason other than a personal choice is crap (and no, I'm not talking about a multi generation household where all contribute, I'm talking about people who contribute nothing to the household as if they were still 15).

ecb, Let me be clear in that I am in no way endorsing any kind of a LifeScript (TM) pathway. I do not care what kind of lifestyle people choose to live. What I certainly do believe is that there will be a lot of dysfunction and resentment in the LifeScript if current trends continue and the late 30s/early 40s breeding carries on.

Hypothetically, at age 40, the pahrunts breed and think that little Johnny is going to grow up to be wonderful. Twenty years later, he's not in college and is smoking pot in the basement, where he lives. They were expecting a "cancer curer" and instead got a LifeScript which they had not at all anticipated. What kind of resentment is that going to fuel? They're 60 years old and wanting to spend their time and energy on some of the things you've mentioned--travel and hobbies--and instead, they're dealing with a dependent who is unlikely to leave anytime soon. And with automation being what we think it will be in 2035, there will be significantly fewer decent wage jobs and significantly more Johnny's!

I am in no way endorsing "Lifescript" but I am endorsing independence. There comes a time where nobody is owed food, shelter and praise just for being born. I am not talking about people who are disabled due to conditions at birth, due to life experiences or age. But yeah, a 30 year old who still feels "owed" something for being above ground and sucking air? No. There comes a point at which parental obligation ends. People should be taking care of themselves by the mid twenties. This whole assuming a childlike dependent role until 40 while wanting adult rights at 18 is something I am over. We are all the captains of our own ship. With that right comes responsibility.

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evilchildlessbitch
I am in no way endorsing "Lifescript" but I am endorsing independence. There comes a time where nobody is owed food, shelter and praise just for being born. I am not talking about people who are disabled due to conditions at birth, due to life experiences or age. But yeah, a 30 year old who still feels "owed" something for being above ground and sucking air? No. There comes a point at which parental obligation ends. People should be taking care of themselves by the mid twenties. This whole assuming a childlike dependent role until 40 while wanting adult rights at 18 is something I am over. We are all the captains of our own ship. With that right comes responsibility.

I was independent in my early 20s, and I'm with you 100%. I just think that the hipster breeders are going to find themselves dealing with a lot of disappointment and resentment some 25-30 years from now.

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There comes a point at which parental obligation ends. People should be taking care of themselves by the mid twenties.

This is a big difference between my generation (I am over 50) and the current generation. When I was 23 years old, I was fully self-supporting and not living in my parents' house. Back then, you WANTED to get out of your parents' house and it was expected they wanted you out too. When I moved out I lived in a crummy apartment (but it was clean, at least my room was) and was self-supporting. I looked for happy hours with free food. I had roommates.. I struggled financially but it taught me to live on less for the Greater Good. I do the same now because I want to retire.

One of my DH's nieces is 32 years old, able-bodied and still lives at home. She has a master's degree. She worked for a little while but prefers not to. Her Moo, who sits on her ass too and hasn't worked in 25 years, has a second husband (not the layabout's father) and he pays for both of them to sit home on their asses. In fact, the Wallet is retiring soon and they are considering retirement destinations with the kid in mind. it boggles DH's and my mind...Stepdud is the biggest chump alive. And don't look at the Moo--she WANTS the kid there. I guess they keep each other company. I've been out with them and heard the Moo say that Moo pays for things so her daughter doesn't have to use "her" money. :crz

**Note, I realize things were a lot cheaper then and I don't slam anyone for living with their folks. Not my business but I think anyone who is an adult and is working should contribute to the family's expenses. There is no free lunch, and the sooner kids learn that, the better it will serve them.

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bell_flower

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There comes a point at which parental obligation ends. People should be taking care of themselves by the mid twenties.

This is a big difference between my generation (I am over 50) and the current generation. When I was 23 years old, I was fully self-supporting and not living in my parents' house. Back then, you WANTED to get out of your parents' house and it was expected they wanted you out too. When I moved out I lived in a crummy apartment (but it was clean, at least my room was) and was self-supporting. I looked for happy hours with free food. I had roommates.. I struggled financially but it taught me to live on less for the Greater Good. I do the same now because I want to retire.

Sounds like we are generational sisters. I was out by 22, even if I was driving a cheap car and living in a cheap apartment, existing on a $189/week paycheck. It wasn't only that life with my grandmother was dreadful, making my independence feel like an escape, but it just felt weird. It was time for me to have my own place, be responsible for myself, live by my own clock.

The youngsters talk about how hard it is today: a poor job market, big college loans to pay off, a higher cost of living .. but each generation has its difficulties becoming fledged. I was paying 17% interest on my car loan, took a job in the mail room at a corporation that had a data center I wanted to break into. I had to work up from there. I ate a lot of bologna and Hamburger Helper, to the extent that I can't bear to have those things in my house, today.

*shrug* It was simply considered The Thing to Do. Part of the American Dream, I guess, which is something that few folks feel exists, today. And it probably doesn't, not as defined by previous generations. But, living in very sketchy circumstances can be survived. I fault today's parents for thinking that their offspring simply wouldn't be able to get along on their own unless they had the same standard of living independently as they did when they were the responsibility of the parents. It won't kill young people to live a hand-to-mouth existence for several years, if that's what it takes to be independent.

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Dorisan


The youngsters talk about how hard it is today: a poor job market, big college loans to pay off, a higher cost of living .. but each generation has its difficulties becoming fledged. I was paying 17% interest on my car loan, took a job in the mail room at a corporation that had a data center I wanted to break into. I had to work up from there. I ate a lot of bologna and Hamburger Helper, to the extent that I can't bear to have those things in my house, today.

*shrug* It was simply considered The Thing to Do. Part of the American Dream, I guess, which is something that few folks feel exists, today. And it probably doesn't, not as defined by previous generations. But, living in very sketchy circumstances can be survived. I fault today's parents for thinking that their offspring simply wouldn't be able to get along on their own unless they had the same standard of living independently as they did when they were the responsibility of the parents. It won't kill young people to live a hand-to-mouth existence for several years, if that's what it takes to be independent.

My estimation is that by in large, today's kydz couldn't fathom the thought of living like that. No iPhone? No data plan? No 200+ channels on TV? And paying for your own car? With your own low-wage job???