Yay, we're filthy hedonists!

Ha. Yet another article written by someone who can't fucking STAND that we're not living child-centered lives: http://tinyurl.com/kq92k9o

He uses a lot of intellectual allusions to try and cover for it, but he has his drawers in big knots over the fact that CF live what he considers "pleasure-oriented" lives. A lot of his arguments are ones I've seen before, just with more philosophical name-dropping.

Okay, we'll set aside the part where I work for a living, pay taxes, treat my loved ones well, and do all those typical adult things like reconciling my checking account, cleaning the house, taking the cat to the vet, and all those things that most adults do, childed or not. I'd say that yeah, much of my life outside of work and the aforementioned everyday responsibilities is, in fact, pleasure-oriented. And how, exactly, is this bad? Who's being hurt? (well, maybe the people who ask me nicely, but that's a whole 'nuther reality that would probably make this dude's head explode)

This guy is a complete fuckin' idiot.

I am NOT childfree to live a hedonistic life. I am CF because I didn't want to bring another human being onto an already overpopulated planet, I didn't want to be a single moo raising a child in poverty and I didn't want to raise a child with a MI, possibly passing those bad genes on to it.

As a result, I live a life of freedom and joy, not one of misery, poverty and depression. I am not contributing to the problem of overpopulation, which makes me feel good about who I am, and I'm not raising a child who could turn out to be a sociopath, tard or worse.

There are MANY good reasons why people don't have kyds, and this guy is only reading into it what he wants to see. In other words, he's JELLY of the childfree! Sux to be him.

So basically what I think he's saying, besides calling us hedonists, is that as human beings we are supposed to forego pleasure and the things that would make our life - our only life on this planet, mind you; more bearable and enjoyable for the misery and hardship that comes with having children?

Hahahahaha larious

Having chyldrun is a voluntairy option, and obviously those that choose not to have them actually put some serious thought into it before doing so. Unlike a lot of the breeders out there who spawn just because they are told to do so.

I bet this male author is probably a father. Either he bred without giving it much thought or thinks that all women should do so because being a mooomy is so important and the only thing women are good for.

Edit: Looking around the site, I can not find a link to get in contact with these morons. I wanted to write an e-mail with my opinion on this article.

Oh and he is a parunt......... Figures...

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The Author, on immortality...
But we can imagine those lives, and the ones following from them down through the ages, while we are alive, and know that something intangible about us will live on through them. Just as something equally intangible promises to live on from someone who devotes his life to the goods of honor or glory, or sacrifice for a noble cause.

Why are people so convinced that they'll become immortal if they have children? I really don't get this concept at all. Death is a terrible thing that most humans are haunted by, to some degree, but it's not avoidable via having children. In fact, a few generations down the line, no one will know you, remember you, and chances are, they won't care enough to do any research into your life & times.

Articles like this used to upset me but now I pretty much just shrug my shoulders and move on. There is nothing that can be done or said to persuade the author to show an ounce of respect for the childfree, so I think it's useless getting upset over it. However, it should be pointed out that the resources that children need are heavily subsidized by those who do not have children. Sometimes guys like this need to be reminded that he and his children need successful, childfree people to keep working and paying taxes. It's not the other way around. If childfree folks pack their bags and offshore their jobs and bank accounts en masse, the shit will really hit the fan for western society.

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StudioFiftyFour
Why are people so convinced that they'll become immortal if they have children? I really don't get this concept at all. Death is a terrible thing that most humans are haunted by, to some degree, but it's not avoidable via having children. In fact, a few generations down the line, no one will know you, remember you, and chances are, they won't care enough to do any research into your life & times.

You bring up one concept that I didn't mention in my comments about this idiot.

I've always thought that "children as way to fight mortality" is a very unhealthy attitude. America in general is really, really bad at death. We don't handle it well, we don't want to talk about it (but couch it in optimistic-sounding terms, like "I prefer to focus on life!"), and we do everything we can to deny it. I think admitting that you'll someday be gone and likely forgotten is part of having a healthy relationship with your own mortality.

Yeah, your kids will outlive you. But they are not YOU. They will have their own lives, with their own goals and values. Their lives after you're gone won't be lived FOR you.

Writings like this don't piss me off...idiots like this aren't worth getting worked up about. Mostly, I am amused by how deeply this guy sunk himself into denial.

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randomcfchick


Yeah, your kids will outlive you. But they are not YOU. They will have their own lives, with their own goals and values. Their lives after you're gone won't be lived FOR you.

Writings like this don't piss me off...idiots like this aren't worth getting worked up about. Mostly, I am amused by how deeply this guy sunk himself into denial.

That's another strange concept, the idea that your children will be exactly like you, even to the point of attitudes, emotions, opinions, ideology, so many people think that their kids are going to be carbon copies of them.

I can't imagine what kind of disappointment and resentment grows out of this kind of thinking.

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randomcfchick
Ha. Yet another article written by someone who can't fucking STAND that we're not living child-centered lives: http://tinyurl.com/kq92k9o

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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StudioFiftyFour
However, it should be pointed out that the resources that children need are heavily subsidized by those who do not have children. Sometimes guys like this need to be reminded that he and his children need successful, childfree people to keep working and paying taxes. It's not the other way around. If childfree folks pack their bags and offshore their jobs and bank accounts en masse, the shit will really hit the fan for western society.

Eloquently said, I stand very firm on this belief, if we all had kids or just f'd off to other county's/planets, who would be left to support the shamoos and other breeders who take days off at random cause gruntliegh got the sniffles, or who pays those high income taxes that go into government support for poorer family's(dumb family's)? The non bred teens?

Frankly I too have medical conditions I wouldn't want to pass on to another unsuspecting generation, but way before that, as a teen I realized what most breeders don't, I thought about the option of having a clone, figured it might be common by my 30s, I like myself a lot, and it sounded like a more pleasent option than just having a random kid, a no big deal thing, but I thought about it and realized I am who I am because of my perants/brother and all the experiences I've had through life that happened at different unique times in my life to shape me into the me today, like for instance I love long hair, mines thin its hard to grow long, but I do anyway, my mum frequently cut it short as a kid because she liked short hair because hers was so thick.

Now if I were raising my exact clone, I would want her to have long hair, but with no counter influence she might choose short hair because I always made her keep it long... Point is, I realized that even an almost exactly identical clone, growing up in a different time, different family dynamic and influences, wouldn't make her exactly the same or better than me as I was when I thought it, so why the hell would a 50% DNA replicant be any better?

I was always surrounded by people who even as kids talked about who they'd marry, when, where, how many kids, what genders, and a complete list of names for them, I always felt strange because as a kid/teen, I didn't think that was something you had to worry/think/talk about till you were an adult with a partner, when I tried to think of these same topics, so as to not feel left out of peoples conversations, I would go way past the simple answer and always fall back on the obvious, you grow up, get a job, and life takes over, its the chaos theory, I don't like not knowing what's ahead, so I set my own path, job, car, house, pets, 9years later serious boyfriend, conclusion? My life is perfect the way it is, why would I want to ruin what I have worked so hard to create for myself, pets and now partner?

Partner or not I can live out the life I want to live, and I choose to do so.

He says that individuals who are childfree, when faced with annhilalation, will feel a flood of regrets... What about parents who seek to be immortal, living through the lives of their children while losing their own? What about the endless drove of people who wish they didn't have children? Are they not going to feel regret at their demise? Do they not feel regret at their lives as they yet live? He hasn't done all of his research. Stupid shit in a pretty package, ain't that academia? A bandaid on the wounded pride of breeders. That's all that is.

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You bring up one concept that I didn't mention in my comments about this idiot.

I've always thought that "children as way to fight mortality" is a very unhealthy attitude. America in general is really, really bad at death. We don't handle it well, we don't want to talk about it (but couch it in optimistic-sounding terms, like "I prefer to focus on life!"), and we do everything we can to deny it. I think admitting that you'll someday be gone and likely forgotten is part of having a healthy relationship with your own mortality.

It's true, America does have an unhealthy attituide about death and dealing with it. That's why there's an industry solely dedicated to ripping off families of the decesed. Check out this Penn and Teller B^ll$*it episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIu5fO7SFmo

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He says that individuals who are childfree, when faced with annihilation, will feel a flood of regrets.

If the world goes to shit: comets, nuclear war, famine, the collapse of technology/government and/or disease, I for one will not be saying, "Hey I wish I'd bred some kids so they could experience this fun too!" Because nothing says "happy fambilee" like breeding future people to starve.

Parents won't be so fortunate.

It's not pleasure we CF seek, it's FREEDOM. Freedom to come and go as we please, freedom to get a good night's sleep, freedom to not have little ones dependent on us, freedom to live our own lives the way we choose.

For me, when I combine being CF with being an early retiree, I can enjoy childfreedom with pure economic freedom, a terrific combination.

Ooh, its 4 PM here, time for my daily afternoon (and quiet) NAP!

Yes, he's just jealous.

He must be miserable and is projecting his care free fantasies onto us.

Random - re the "Philosophical name dropping". Yeah, GMAFB eyes2 One of the issues I had on that was - who considers these Greek Philosophers "ancient"? I would consider these people modern. Ancient to me would be long before that. I'm not sure about the Greeks but other scholars were often Priests or Monks - who had no children.

I really can't stand people who try to bolster their arguments with alot of pseudo intellectual claptrap. This has got to fall under something like False Authority or Appeal To Authority. I'm surprised he didn't shove As A Parent in there too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

There's something about this too that gives me a feeling of "Smart Shaming". Which is a term I just made up for when Pro Breeders denigrate the intelligent for not breeding. We've all seen it - "too many stupids breeding", "it's Idiocracy", "not enough smart people breeding", etc.

I came upon one of those the other day, I can't remember where so I will paraphrase - it was some woman talking about how she was CF and enumerating the reasons why and some commenter said something along the lines of ~ "Everything you say is why YOU WOULD make a GREAT MOTHER".

Who does this "author" point out - Brooklyn Hipsters or someone like that IIRC. It just reeked of what I'm calling "Smart Shaming". Maybe there's another term for this.

Oh and what he's trying to do is get people to second guess themselves. Are you sure your lives aren't empty? Fun things will fall flat!
This is part of the "Shaming" he's trying to do, as is his invoking of "Authority" (Philosophers) to try to appeal to the more educated.

I'd really like to give this guy a piece of my mind. I'd like to tell him also that I do believe I've *converted* a few people to being CF. Not that I set out to do that, I'm a live and let live type of a person. But I've been open about being CF with people and they asked me questions - not in a 'grilling' sort of way - but more from the angle of "I didn't know you could do that" or "Huh, I never considered that". I do know I've given some people food for thought. I'm sure the topic of being CF, the things you can find online, this is food for thought for people too and I bet it all burns his ass RIGHT up!

It seems the book that launched his tirade here burnt him up pretty good

Notice how he speaks of these Philosophers and "Immortality". He doesn't say anything about his own experiences along the lines of "Being a Dad makes me happy". You almost want to assume the negative because he equates 'the other' (CF) with pleasure. One could thus infer he's not having all that much fun in life. Ergo, he's jealous.

Sucks to be DUH!

Do you want to hear about my Hedonistic after hours plans for next week? I'm going to wash my kitchen walls. BIG TIME EXCITEMENT! SUPER FUN PARTY TIME!!!

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Zzelda
There's something about this too that gives me a feeling of "Smart Shaming". Which is a term I just made up for when Pro Breeders denigrate the intelligent for not breeding.

I think you're onto something here...

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Zzelda
Do you want to hear about my Hedonistic after hours plans for next week? I'm going to wash my kitchen walls. BIG TIME EXCITEMENT! SUPER FUN PARTY TIME!!!

People who wash kitchen walls are selfish. Who will wash your kitchen walls when you get old? smile

What does he mean filthy? Unlike moos we all shower frequently!

_______________________________________________
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

Quite often it's not just the walls that need washing. Usually from cooking a delicious filet that costs what a breeder would spend in a week to feed their little crap factory. No over-processed baloney here.

So according to that pseudo-intellectual, self-righteous diatribe, CF are all selfish yet ultimately deluded hedonists:drool, and breeders are selfless humanitarians sluicing crotch-barnicles for the greater good larious:crz:kill...Linker, get off the cross Honey, we need firewood!

Gotta love the hypocritical judgement he has for CF being 'selfish' and then goes on to promote the immortality gained from having kids :d'oh. Methinks this guy is facing his own mortality, as well as the misery of breeding, and is pissed at his own mistakes of careless inpigging, so he targets us CF. Clear cut case of projecting if you ask me... and what's the bet with his clearly evident festering hostility, he probably drives a very large and sporty car .

Interesting. I often google the names of people like that to see what other nonsense platforms they pitch. The CF shamers I typically assume to be uber conservative and highly religious. In this case - the guys seems to be a liberal. Color me shocked. I know that breeders can be liberal, but, as liberals they tend to mind their own business.

I would like him to explain how he can have this view towards religion and politics ...

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Linker is concerned our liberal democracy—defined as one that emphasizes individual freedom, limits the power of the state, and the like—is threatened by traditionalist believers and radical atheists.

... and jump all over CF people for not breeding. Isn't the choice or orientation that CFs make about having children also part of that "individual freedom?"

LINK to his book - 'The Religious Test.'

I felt myself being inflated by having to absorb all the hot air chow-chow talk that guy spouts. What I did take from the article is this one totally inane paragraph

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They want to work hard and play hard, enjoying the fruits of their labor without the constraints, sacrifices, and trade-offs that come from raising kids. Children might be a good, but they're a good that would take away from what they consider to be the highest good, which is the enjoyment of pleasure. So they forgo having them.

I have always viewed whatever material and "fruit" advantages that were gained being CF as a bonus, not an expected end. Being CF doesn't mean becoming rich or having more freedom or less responsibility. And if one does end up with more material goods, they can never be taken for granted. One disastrous event could wipe all that out. I've seen it in my own life over the past year, with Dh's health problems.

Simply put, for myself anyway, is that being CF is the path I was meant to take. I have never had the desire, nor been able to understand the impetus to be a parent. I felt that way back when, at a time before I even knew what I'd become as an adult or how that orientation would affect my life.

ETA: it's really not fair that the publication for which he writes has no place for readers to respond to the articles. Or perhaps if you have a digital subscription it does. The only way to respond to the dolt is if you follow his twitter feed.

Welp, gotta do something with that BA in philosophy, I guess...

This idiot's major fallacy is equating having children with "goodness". It is not a question of good or bad -it is simply a preference. Does my ordering chocolate cake at a restaurant instead of apple pie have to become some gawd-awful, convoluted philosophical debate as well? :smn

Besides, there are some terrible, selfish reasons for having children. It's not always about raising the next generation and being altruistic. Does the pedo who has kids so he/she has ready victims fall into the "good" category? What about the millions of trash out there who have sex mindlessly and pop out kids like pez dispensers? They rarely nurture these children or ensure them a life outside of poverty. I doubt this falls into Mr Kantian's vision of altruism and sacrifice.

Besides, if living a CF life is all about hedonism, damn I'd like to get in on some of that! I work all day and then come home and do household chores. I'm beat by 7 pm. My only act of "hedonism" is the hot bath I take before bed. Weekends I spend catching up on cleaning and laundry. Sometimes my husband and I will go to the zoo or something. I hardly have a life centered around pleasure and self-satisfaction.

If having children is selfless, there should be no individual benefit to having them. No bingos about the family name being passed on, 'immortality', unconditional love and the like. Also, people would be quite happy to see having children restricted to those whose offspring are mose likely to bring the greatest benefit to society.

We'd probably also have a debate about whether reproduction is actually good for society, instead of just blindly assuming our economic pyramid scheme is not only optimal but inevitable.

I don't see any of these things happening.

If not having children were the same as hedonism, nobody would respect celibate religious figures. Nobody without kids would donate time or energy to charity, or follow a lower-paying career path which involved helping people.

There'd be quite a problem convincing all those hedonistic people (everyone, at some point in their lives) to become altruistic breeders. In fact, nobody would breed because it would require them to give up their pleasures. None of us would bother to lift a finger to try to protect the environment.

Again, we don't see this.

People who believe this ridiculous dichotomy appear to have never spoken to a childfree person, and are instead projecting about how they lived before they had children.

Nowhere in that article does that ignoramus say anything about medical and psychological reasons that factor into the decision to stay CF. That really hits a nerve with me. I knew I didn't want kids from the age of 5, but there's nothing like finding out you have major hormonal issues (or really, any other chronic disease) to really cement that decision. I have hypothyroidism and PCOS. I was lucky enough, after years of trial and error, to find a birth control pill that dumbs down my PCOS symptoms enough so that time of month isn't debilitating. That trial and error was actually how I found out I have a low tolerance for progesterone, the hormone your body mass-produces in huge quantities during pregnancy. I hadn't had my period in 6 months after another failed pill and my gyno had to give me a progesterone pill to restart it. This dosage was the same exact amount produced in the first trimester of pregnancy. I had to take it for one week. I was sick for a month and a half. It was like having the stomach flu induced. Why the hell would I ever want to put myself through intense illness like that, just to bake a baby and prove I'm not "selfish"? If someone were to drug me, strap me to a gurney, artificially inseminate me and actually succeed (good luck with that since my fertility is double-compromised), I'd probably end up miscarrying anyhow, so there's my revenge on the "selfless" suffering you'd endorse. At least the high-estrogen birth control I'm on now works with my body chemistry. The hypo is a whole other story. I don't show up well on lab tests and doctors don't do a damn thing about upping your dosage of meds unless they see evidence. Those tests are based off a median that in no way reflects how deficient each individual really is. Does this philosophical idiot know that pregnancy fucks your thyroid permanently? I'm going through enough trying to regulate it now so my life isn't a walking stupor without 15 hours of sleep each night. I'm sure you'd be a real effective parent if you had barely enough energy to cater to yourself, right? The last thing I need is to throw all the work I've been doing with my endo down the toilet and restart thanks to the detrimental effect of breeding hormones. To add to that, I've suffered from PTSD and panic attacks most of my life. I need to put enough effort into my own well-being, and taken what I battle with, having kids--biological or adopted--would break me. Just because I have a uterus doesn't make me a means to an end. I am an end. So, faux-Plato, you call that filthy, unrestrained hedonism?

He also doesn't mention the very simple fact that parenting just isn't for some people. Period. It doesn't need any lengthy explanations. Clearly, you equate this lack of maternal or paternal instinct to slathering yourself in oil and having a ten-hour orgy in the lupenaria of Ancient Rome, but some people were just meant to make other things besides babies. Just like some people weren't meant to be accountants because they royally suck at math. Or like some people weren't meant to be teachers because they have no patience. Same idea. So why is this so unacceptable for people who just do not want to be parents, especially women who do not want to be parents? DNA is also not the only tangible legacy you can leave. There are plenty of people who share your genetic material, and you probably don't even know some of them exist. It's not exact but neither is the DNA passed on to kids. It's only half yours, half someone else's. As people breed and rebreed, your specific genetic code becomes lost--unless you leave a blood sample so some Dr. Frankenstein can clone you in a couple centuries, and I have no intention of being the human version of Dolly the sheep. If you want to leave a lasting legacy you have to actually make an impact. Crazy, I know, because it actually requires effort! Mine will be writing and art. That will be my legacy. That will make me immortal. No genetic material required.

Remember, Mr. Philosopher (I'm sorry, is it Dr. Philosopher?): this is a person you refer to as a filthy hedonist.

_________________________________________________________________

"If your parenting didn't make him a sociopath the lack of it did." -Jessica Jones

Anyone wanting to communicate with the guy can reach him at the e-mail address found on his website

I'm A Ridiculous Breeding Wanker

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randomcfchick
Ha. Yet another article written by someone who can't fucking STAND that we're not living child-centered lives: http://tinyurl.com/kq92k9o

He uses a lot of intellectual allusions to try and cover for it, but he has his drawers in big knots over the fact that CF live what he considers "pleasure-oriented" lives. A lot of his arguments are ones I've seen before, just with more philosophical name-dropping.

In reading this again, I find it really bizarre that this man is so interested in the lives of other people whom he doesn't even know.

A few weeks ago I wrote a post about youth sports and how there are kydz participating on so many teams, that they're absorbing all of the free time of their parents on weekends, and weekdays as well. And their parents are willingly tolerating all of this!

But I don't feel like my tone was the same as this guy's. People can spend their time as they choose to. If they want to waste weekend after weekend watching a bunch of 6 year olds kick soccer balls around... I'm completely fine with that. If they want to live a childfree existence, maybe a hedonistic one, I'm fine with that, too.

I don't see any need to write commentaries on how other people should live.

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We won't really be around to go on living through our children's lives, and the lives of their children. But we can imagine those lives, and the ones following from them down through the ages, while we are alive, and know that something intangible about us will live on through them. Just as something equally intangible promises to live on from someone who devotes his life to the goods of honor or glory, or sacrifice for a noble cause.

He's insecure. He thinks it is unselfish to have this need to fantasize about something that is only that, a creation of one's own mind, and then he compares it with actually being a hero and being remembered for something noble. There is no comparison, the man is just grasping at something and he is a sad person lacking in purpose. He is projecting his desperation on to others, who least deserve it. I would dare say that that most of the CF live intentional lives, are proud of being strong and free thinking, and cannot be shamed about being childfree.

The weakling has himself convinced that we HAVE to be bad, when he himself admits his own selfish need to be something *intangibly* immortal. He's upset because we are NOT that selfish and elitist. And yes, he's pissed because he is targeting smart people, (smart shaming, yes) damn those people who do not want to pass on smart genes and fantasize about fake people in the future with their very special blood lines.

Hedonistic, eh? Yes, because working my ass off at the airport five days a week (AND dealing with douchebag breeders/brats) just screams hedonism. :crz This asshat can fuck off

(Also, between the diabetes, cancer, MI, and other things that float in my genetic cesspool, I'm selfish for not wanting anyone else to have that fun.)

_________________________________________________________

Why live in a fishbowl, when you could be swimming in the ocean?

"She, and all other rabid breeders, are like crabs in a bucket headed to Red Lobster. When they see a smarter crab escaping, they try to pull it back in." - Miss Hannigan

"Yeah, that's what family is about - guilt tripping people into cleaning up someone else's mess." - mrs. chinaski

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