Childfree dating and why I hate it

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JohnDrake
I think there's a double standard with CF men and women. With CF women, if she doesn't want kids, she's independent and being self sufficient but if a man doesn't want kids, it's because he refused to grow up. All totally stupid in my opinion.

Err, CF women are completely vilified. We're considered selfish and not real women. As Techie wrote:

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Techie
I have another theory on single duhs and CF dating. A few posters on this board have mentioned that men push for kids less frequently than women do. I wonder if the opposite is true. Men fight for their right to be CF less frequently than women do. When I really think about it, a question comes up. How many men really have the balls to walk away if their SO is demanding baby batter for breeding? Based on real life experience and based on what I see on this board,CF women, if are cornered about breeding, they will fight with all that they got. But men? I think many just go with the flow and allow their SO to dictate how things will happen.

I agree with this. I think there is less social pressure on boys, and later men, or at least it starts at a later age. So many haven't really thought out their position and how to defend it, whereas women have been fending off bingos since they were little girls and have only grown more entrenched in their opinions.

Add to the fact that the woman bears the physical cost of parenthood in a way that the man doesn't, and socially is still expected to perform the majority of the cunt work, and it's no surprise to me that there are more outspoken CF women than men.

I have no doubt that CF men deal with bingos, I just expect it is a different experience. Otherwise, why would there be so many more CF women on this board (and other boards) than men, and so many more articles about "CF is okay, really" by women?

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Techie
I have met CF women since then, but something weird happens. In my mind, I may have a desire to get to know them and all that. But, when she actually tries to reciprocate and tries to get to know me, I don't know why, I pull back. Some people say that I just love my freedom too much while others say I just haven't came across "the one" yet. Maybe I am just numb to relationships. Who knows.

I used to get a similar thing, but slightly different, for starters im female, so it always struck others as odd that I would keep myself single, I just didn't see any point in dating, I had my independence, I had female friends and plenty of guy friends I wasn't interested in being sexual with, so I wasn't missing out on any of those close friendship bonds people usually desire when they only have a single gender friend group. i'd go on dates, and soon as the guy wanted to get closer to me, i'd freak out and disappear from contact.

truth for me was, I wasn't interested in dating, I enjoyed friendships more than I desired a partner, I spent more time with the dates that only wanted to hold hands and show me places they enjoyed, than the ones who wanted a kiss on the first date and a feel up on the second.

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JohnDrake
I met my wife online in a discussion forum for a common hobby we shared at the time. We started off just swapping tips and my helping her with her computer problems. It then morphed into a friendship and we started talking on the phone a lot, learning more about each other. I then travelled across the country to meet her, scared to death I'd let her down, but I didn't. A few years after that, we married, and have been happy ever since. The chances of that happening again are slim to none.

I had decided I didn't want children but she was sort of on the fence, but then decided she didn't want them either. We are not only spouses, but we're best friends who keep no secrets and trust each other all the way. Finding something like that is rare and am not sure I could find it again.

then enter mr. exile, I worked with him for several years, wasn't one of my close friends, but we still talked easy, had a lot of things in common and never had any conflict, when I changed jobs and I started catching trains late at night, we started talking more on the phone because I was scared of the area I had to catch the train in, what started as a 40min train trip call, turned into 3hrs of just talking, catching up on weekends to play console games, after a few months we considered dating, and so far its been 2 yrs, still no arguments/conflict, still talk easy and openly about just about every aspect of life, death, friends, health, desires, family, hobbies and beliefs, with plenty of importaint things in common.

I understand how rare this kind of relationship is, if we split up, I doubt I could find someone to do this again with any time soon, and I doubt I would even try to, based on my past independence and preferring to stay single, rather than dating anything that moves just in case their the one.

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Techie
I have met CF women since then, but something weird happens. In my mind, I may have a desire to get to know them and all that. But, when she actually tries to reciprocate and tries to get to know me, I don't know why, I pull back. Some people say that I just love my freedom too much while others say I just haven't came across "the one" yet. Maybe I am just numb to relationships. Who knows.

Given how your last relationship ended, you might be a bit wary of women who say they are CF. This need not be at a rational level, in which case even if she showed you proof of sterilization you might still keep her at arm's length.

Of course there's no need for there to be something wrong with you. Maybe you're just really content with being single, and nobody you met has provided a compelling reason to change that.

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exile

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JohnDrake
I met my wife online in a discussion forum for a common hobby we shared at the time. We started off just swapping tips and my helping her with her computer problems. It then morphed into a friendship and we started talking on the phone a lot, learning more about each other. I then travelled across the country to meet her, scared to death I'd let her down, but I didn't. A few years after that, we married, and have been happy ever since. The chances of that happening again are slim to none.

I had decided I didn't want children but she was sort of on the fence, but then decided she didn't want them either. We are not only spouses, but we're best friends who keep no secrets and trust each other all the way. Finding something like that is rare and am not sure I could find it again.

then enter mr. exile, I worked with him for several years, wasn't one of my close friends, but we still talked easy, had a lot of things in common and never had any conflict, when I changed jobs and I started catching trains late at night, we started talking more on the phone because I was scared of the area I had to catch the train in, what started as a 40min train trip call, turned into 3hrs of just talking, catching up on weekends to play console games, after a few months we considered dating, and so far its been 2 yrs, still no arguments/conflict, still talk easy and openly about just about every aspect of life, death, friends, health, desires, family, hobbies and beliefs, with plenty of importaint things in common.

I understand how rare this kind of relationship is, if we split up, I doubt I could find someone to do this again with any time soon, and I doubt I would even try to, based on my past independence and preferring to stay single, rather than dating anything that moves just in case their the one.

I know exactly what you mean. I didn't date anyone just to be going out, I wanted to date someone I had things in common with, who had a compatible personality, who could be a friend, etc., but I could never find that so I didn't date anyone for a long time until I met my wife. I'm not a partier/drinker and it seemed in my 20s, that's what most women in that age group wanted, not someone who was a little more quiet and reserved like me, so I was pretty much locked out of the dating scene. I doubt I could ever find someone like my wife again so if I were to end up without her, I'd probably stay alone. I enjoyed being single and if I had to, probably could do so again.

When I was dating, I had a LOT of guys who would say that they're CF, but then dump me years later when they discovered that they couldn't change my mind. I actually had several of them tell me that, flat out. "I thought I could change your mind."

I also had one boyfriend TRY to "oops" me. First, I noticed that pills would be gone from my BC that I had not taken. I didn't do that "week off" so I it didn't really matter if the days didn't sync. I didn't think anything of it at first. I did notice that I would be a different amount off every now and then. Then whole packs of BC went missing. I would have to keep getting more and more and they'd disappear. At about that same time he didn't want to condom up any more. When I told him no condom=no sex he would, but he'd need to go to the bathroom to put it on and take it off instead of doing it in front of me, and they kept breaking, a LOT. (He was putting holes in them/tearing them on purpose.) I put 2 and 2 together and was trying to decide what to do about it when he brought up in conversation, "So, if for some reason you were to get pregnant..."
To which I replied:
"You would be paying for an abortion, immediately."
"and if I didn't?"
"I would kill myself trying to get it out of me."
He looked horrified.
We never had sex again, and he and I parted ways amicably shortly after. He knew that trying to force me to breed wouldn't work, and I knowing what he was pulling on me would never get me to even sleep in the same bed with him again.

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yurble

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Techie
I have met CF women since then, but something weird happens. In my mind, I may have a desire to get to know them and all that. But, when she actually tries to reciprocate and tries to get to know me, I don't know why, I pull back. Some people say that I just love my freedom too much while others say I just haven't came across "the one" yet. Maybe I am just numb to relationships. Who knows.

Given how your last relationship ended, you might be a bit wary of women who say they are CF. This need not be at a rational level, in which case even if she showed you proof of sterilization you might still keep her at arm's length.

Of course there's no need for there to be something wrong with you. Maybe you're just really content with being single, and nobody you met has provided a compelling reason to change that.

I think it may be a little bit of all that you have mentioned. I have to admit, I now check out people with a magnifying glass and pay really close attention to how they behave. There is some concern about her possibly changing her mind. Then comes the part where I feel like, well, if I pull away now, I won't have to worry about her changing her mind. And then, I also look at how I connect with someone. Being CF is a great start, but it is only a start. Sometimes I do not find a good connection. Other times I feel like I have so much freedom that I almost do not feel like I want to give that up at the moment.

I think you are also correct about me meeting someone who would give me a compelling reason to change my situation. I think that once I come across the right person, things will just fall in place, just like they did in the past. Ok, maybe the past is not a good example, but hey, relationships worked good until the baby rabies time bomb went off. Couple times, recently, I have met a couple of CF women where at first it looked like they were going to make it all happen. But then we would lose connection some place and we would not stay in touch for who knows what reason, kind of like in the movie The Adjustment Bureau. Stuff happens, some say "maybe we will meet again"

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bunny
When I was dating, I had a LOT of guys who would say that they're CF, but then dump me years later when they discovered that they couldn't change my mind. I actually had several of them tell me that, flat out. "I thought I could change your mind."

I also had one boyfriend TRY to "oops" me. First, I noticed that pills would be gone from my BC that I had not taken. I didn't do that "week off" so I it didn't really matter if the days didn't sync. I didn't think anything of it at first. I did notice that I would be a different amount off every now and then. Then whole packs of BC went missing. I would have to keep getting more and more and they'd disappear. At about that same time he didn't want to condom up any more. When I told him no condom=no sex he would, but he'd need to go to the bathroom to put it on and take it off instead of doing it in front of me, and they kept breaking, a LOT. (He was putting holes in them/tearing them on purpose.) I put 2 and 2 together and was trying to decide what to do about it when he brought up in conversation, "So, if for some reason you were to get pregnant..."
To which I replied:
"You would be paying for an abortion, immediately."
"and if I didn't?"
"I would kill myself trying to get it out of me."
He looked horrified.
We never had sex again, and he and I parted ways amicably shortly after. He knew that trying to force me to breed wouldn't work, and I knowing what he was pulling on me would never get me to even sleep in the same bed with him again.

that is horrific, but not because you didn't want kids, but for how little respect he was willing to show you and how far he went to try and force it, before even bringing it up as a topic to get your thoughts on the matter, specially since it was YOUR body, that he was trying to parasite up without your consent or initial knowledge.

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bunny
When I was dating, I had a LOT of guys who would say that they're CF, but then dump me years later when they discovered that they couldn't change my mind. I actually had several of them tell me that, flat out. "I thought I could change your mind."

I also had one boyfriend TRY to "oops" me. First, I noticed that pills would be gone from my BC that I had not taken. I didn't do that "week off" so I it didn't really matter if the days didn't sync. I didn't think anything of it at first. I did notice that I would be a different amount off every now and then. Then whole packs of BC went missing. I would have to keep getting more and more and they'd disappear. At about that same time he didn't want to condom up any more. When I told him no condom=no sex he would, but he'd need to go to the bathroom to put it on and take it off instead of doing it in front of me, and they kept breaking, a LOT. (He was putting holes in them/tearing them on purpose.) I put 2 and 2 together and was trying to decide what to do about it when he brought up in conversation, "So, if for some reason you were to get pregnant..."
To which I replied:
"You would be paying for an abortion, immediately."
"and if I didn't?"
"I would kill myself trying to get it out of me."
He looked horrified.
We never had sex again, and he and I parted ways amicably shortly after. He knew that trying to force me to breed wouldn't work, and I knowing what he was pulling on me would never get me to even sleep in the same bed with him again.

That's terrible. I wish there were laws in place so this fucker could have spent time in the big house. I am surprised that you did not do something to him. Not to worry, shit like this will come back and bite him in the ass. Sooner or later he will be a single duh, whining about child support, whining about that women won't date him, whining about everything.

Meh. He's writing his own punishment. No actual harm was done. I'm pretty sure he's got brats now. I saw his FB and his photo is of him+brat, and I assume it's his. He didn't friend me though and the last chick he was with (probably the moo) was against him having ANY contact with me EVER again. We were friendly up until then. She's apparently some kind of obsessive catholic freak and thought I was a "bad influence" at the time. I wager that he's a prisoner to her womb by now.

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bunny
Meh. He's writing his own punishment. No actual harm was done. I'm pretty sure he's got brats now. I saw his FB and his photo is of him+brat, and I assume it's his. He didn't friend me though and the last chick he was with (probably the moo) was against him having ANY contact with me EVER again. We were friendly up until then. She's apparently some kind of obsessive catholic freak and thought I was a "bad influence" at the time. I wager that he's a prisoner to her womb by now.

He sure did get what was coming to him. It's nice to see that he is her whipping boy. He may not be "friends" on FakeBook with you, but you can be sure that he will eventually get tired of baby momma drama and he will be trolling dating sites for a child-free woman again. He will get rejected, multiple times, after which he will be writing sad stories about CF women shutting him down and that he is such a prize because his dick works (r).

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bunny
No actual harm was done.

I am glad that you choose to not be a victim, but sometimes an attempt to harm is just as bad as harm itself. Guy is a coward and a giant asshole and I hope you let him know that. I equate boys like him to Dylan Roof - a backstabbing fucker. I use term "boys" because men don't do stuff like that.

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bunny
Meh. He's writing his own punishment. No actual harm was done. I'm pretty sure he's got brats now. I saw his FB and his photo is of him+brat, and I assume it's his. He didn't friend me though and the last chick he was with (probably the moo) was against him having ANY contact with me EVER again. We were friendly up until then. She's apparently some kind of obsessive catholic freak and thought I was a "bad influence" at the time. I wager that he's a prisoner to her womb by now.

I think it's a bad idea to be friends with an ex on Facebook. Having them in front of you all the time makes it hard to move forward and leave the past in the past. An old boyfriend of my wife's tried to friend her recently. He fathered his first in high school(cheated with another girl while dating her) and had since fathered other kids. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a similar situation to what you mentioned as he was always after sex. She told him to get lost and he did.

I think there are a lot of people in my past I don't want back in my life now, so I stay off Facebook. Some are people who gave me a bad time, others I've just outgrown.

I also don't believe in Fakebook.
When you lost contact with a person, you always lost it for a reason...

I agree - Fakebook is useless - I don't use it.

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Techie
I agree - Fakebook is useless - I don't use it.

I tend to agree. I don't want to broadcast my whole life out to the world. I also don't like the fact that there are people who think if you don't, there's something wrong with you. It's like the right to an inner life is rapidly eroding every day.

On another note, I have a Yahoo email account I use for stuff that I don't want to give my real email address out for and I keep getting ads for dating sites in it. Today, I got one for single parents called Single Parent Meet. Why can't they all go there and leave the rest of us alone?

I actually really like Facebook, despite being uber quiet in real life.

I'm in love with a much older Canadian man and, thanks to Facebook, I get to have more of a connection to him.

No, I'm not stalking him. LOL. It's just wonderful to look at his pictures once in a while and dream of us together. He knows how I feel and, while he doesn't outright reject what I say, he doesn't acknowledge it either.

I'm not enough for him, so I am seeing someone else, since it's naive to wait around on the small chance that he'll change his mind.

Bunny, I feel you! I moved to another state to marry a guy met through mutual friends. It wasn't until we'd set a date and I was shopping for wedding stuff that he started burbling about how I was gonna look soooo good pregnant, etc. I was like, whaaaat?! So he snuck around behind my back until he found someone willing to be his broodmare, and that was it for us.

Funny, I haven't thought about him for a long time. You'd think such a turn of events would take up more space in my memory. But I ended up staying in that state and having so damn much fun, the initial reason for ending up there was forgotten...

That's so weird. I moved to here for that guy and was with him 2 years before this whole mess. It was super long ago, almost 20 years, so I don't think much about it either. I do think it's why I'm so vehemently angered by "oopsers".

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videogamesforeverkidsnever
I actually really like Facebook, despite being uber quiet in real life.

I'm in love with a much older Canadian man and, thanks to Facebook, I get to have more of a connection to him.

No, I'm not stalking him. LOL. It's just wonderful to look at his pictures once in a while and dream of us together. He knows how I feel and, while he doesn't outright reject what I say, he doesn't acknowledge it either.

I'm not enough for him, so I am seeing someone else, since it's naive to wait around on the small chance that he'll change his mind.

You may be 'in love with' a 'vision' or a 'projection' of what you think this man is. Be careful about wasting your time and your thoughts.
As well as his time + yes, *don't be a stalker*. If he, or anyone is interested in you - they'll be in contact. Have patience. And buy yourself a clue when people ignore you.

And don't go out with other men just to have some one to distract you. That isn't fair to him. (Unless you have this all arranged and it's some FWB thing.) If not - you probably don't need to be with this person regardless and need to get a grip on your own self.

Get your head together.

If this Canadian guy isn't interested - move on.

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gnocchi
Bunny, I feel you! I moved to another state to marry a guy met through mutual friends. It wasn't until we'd set a date and I was shopping for wedding stuff that he started burbling about how I was gonna look soooo good pregnant, etc. I was like, whaaaat?! So he snuck around behind my back until he found someone willing to be his broodmare, and that was it for us.

Funny, I haven't thought about him for a long time. You'd think such a turn of events would take up more space in my memory. But I ended up staying in that state and having so damn much fun, the initial reason for ending up there was forgotten...

Ouch! What an idiot. As if there aren't a bazillion women who'd love to sluice. Why on earth did he ever pursue you? Must have been the ole I can get her to change saw.

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bunny
Meh. He's writing his own punishment. No actual harm was done. I'm pretty sure he's got brats now. I saw his FB and his photo is of him+brat, and I assume it's his. He didn't friend me though and the last chick he was with (probably the moo) was against him having ANY contact with me EVER again. We were friendly up until then. She's apparently some kind of obsessive catholic freak and thought I was a "bad influence" at the time. I wager that he's a prisoner to her womb by now.

Ha-ha. The honeymoon phase. Give it a year or two and see what happens. I'd wager he makes another attempt to be your friend and this time there is no obsessive catholic freak in the picture either.

Nah. Honeymoon is WAY over. This was over a decade ago. Since I was talking about it, I check out his profile again. He's completely private-d it and shut it off from the public. (had to find it through his dad's.) He's also got catholic campaign icons instead of photos of him and his sprog. (one on some christians in the ME, one on equal rights for fetuses) *shiver* I dodged a bullet.

It got me on a curiosity trip so I looked up other exes (that I don't have any contact with any more) who dumped me for refusing to spawn with them. One of them went from being a DJ to a Presbyterian minister (with multi-sprogs). OMG dodged 2 bullets! Apparently, dumping me helps breeder-brained guys find religion!

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bunny
Nah. Honeymoon is WAY over. This was over a decade ago. Since I was talking about it, I check out his profile again. He's completely private-d it and shut it off from the public. (had to find it through his dad's.) He's also got catholic campaign icons instead of photos of him and his sprog. (one on some christians in the ME, one on equal rights for fetuses) *shiver* I dodged a bullet.

It got me on a curiosity trip so I looked up other exes (that I don't have any contact with any more) who dumped me for refusing to spawn with them. One of them went from being a DJ to a Presbyterian minister (with multi-sprogs). OMG dodged 2 bullets! Apparently, dumping me helps breeder-brained guys find religion!

Sometimes what seems disappointing at first, works out for the better in the long run.

As far as religion goes, I have seen a few real life examples with that. When some big disappointment or loss happens in people's lives, some people turn to religion, some people people turn to counselors, some people just go nuts. Believe it or not, you may have been a whole lot more loss to your ex than you realize. He turned to religion in hopes to ease his pain. He stayed in the religion because he got brainwashed. After he got brainwashed, he bred like his religious peers did.

Would your ex go toward religion if he stayed CF? I suspect not. Unless he was raised in religion as a kid, he would not likely have turned to it. More often than not, trouble strikes a person first. Then, said person will come across a religious preacher or an ad from one who will promise to make all the troubles go away. So, the troubled person starts attending the church. Many people usually leave within a relatively short period of time after they learn that troubles just don't go away because some preacher said they would. But some don't. Some believe that the only reason that troubles hang around is because they are not following the scripture. So they pile onto the problem and make more mistakes in hopes of the original problem going away. Many people breed in the process.

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mrs. chinaski
I also don't believe in Fakebook.
When you lost contact with a person, you always lost it for a reason...

Sometimes it's just life, you move and lose touch, time goes on. I would be happy to reconnect with some friends from the past and have done so. It's nice to talk to them again.

But, of course, then you have those abusers who try to get back in your life. And the assholes who defend them and tell you to put the past behind you and be the bigger person. To me lying about CF is one of the worst lies you can tell to a partner or potential partner. It is a form of abuse and severe deception. It happened to me and the fucker tried to pretend it never happened - gaslighting, they call it. And then they want to be "friends", WTF. They are looking for someone they see as weak to continue to abuse, it makes them feel powerful.

People like Bunny's abuser don't just change, they usually get worse. I'm sure what he did to her is a fond memory for him. Oopsers are sociopaths.

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Blondie
People like Bunny's abuser don't just change, they usually get worse. I'm sure what he did to her is a fond memory for him. Oopsers are sociopaths.

Sometimes these men are really good at brainwashing women that they control. I know such a fucker. He married a woman from another country, she had no family and hardly any friends here. She was 100% against having kids. She got knocked up because of what I suspect was a sabotage of birth control. He brainwashed her into keeping it. He brainwashed her further to the extent that for about 3 years after the kid was born, she was yapping at me that I too need to have one. She stopped now and finally "came out" and told that she wishes she never did this. She said that it all happened when she was really drunk and that she used to drink often before her kid came along.