TV's subliminal influence on women's perception of pregnancy and birth

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StudioFiftyFour
I don't care what people want to spend or what they choose to spend their money on. I and my significant other are just becoming very fatigued with the "make sure you cover the cost of your plate!" gift expectations for the engagement party, bridal shower, baby shower, bachelor party, bachelorette party, rehearsal dinner, wedding, ... and now 'sprinkles' are en vogue, too.

And don't forget it may require a purchase of new clothing to attend the wedding.

Have the bride/groom actually said to you to cover the cost of your plate? If your relatives cover the cost of the ceremony then the couple are receiving a lavish party plus the same value in gifts from friends. If the bride/groom cover the cost of the wedding then they are more or less breaking even. Now if they could just figure out a way to make money on the deal.

Some of the most greedy overbook a venue and hope a bunch of guests just send them a gift (no plate cost to cover) but if all the guests confirm they are in a dilemma.

I recall being told I needed to spend $200 on a wedding gift because that is what the plate cost by a nosey friend of the bride. At the time I was in my twenties and working two jobs to cover putting food on my plate. I thought it the most absurd comment I'd ever heard. I had to fight back tears because it would have been all I could have done to afford a $40 gift.

What kind of tactless human being hosts a party in order to break even? My sister played this game a bit with her wedding, estimating the total monetary value of gifts she'd receive at the wedding. And the gifts she requested weren't at all practical, most were close to useless because she married at 20 and didn't have a clue.

A friend of mine is invited to 4 weddings this month, including rehearsal dinner for one of them, etc. I don't envy her one bit. I opted out of all of this years ago, guess I could be forcibly opted back in if I ever marry but it would be for him to choose the gift.

I work with mostly men who either have or seem to exhibit Aspergers characteristics, so even if they were engaged they would never consider the idea of making big announcements at work so no showers to attend.

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Techie
In any case, when someone had a kid, we would pass around and sign a condolence card. We were sorry about their loss, the life they lost was their own.

Bravo to this! Always wished I had the nerve to do this but most people want to pretend it is the greatest thing ever to have a kid.

All it took for me was hearing about doctors sticking their hand up into your uterus to grab the last of the afterbirth and I said. "Nope. Never signing up for this barbaric shit, ever."

"StudioFiftyFour
I know many an Average Joe who spent the traditional "two months salary" on an engagement ring."

Yep, I know of one woman whose ring cost the guy 6 months salary. Three years later her husband punched her in the face and he went to jail. Some love!

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"[GFG's pregnancy is] kind of like at the stables where that one dumb, ugly-ass mare broke out of her corral one day and got herself screwed by the equally fugly colt that was due to be gelded the same afternoon."- Shiny

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StudioFiftyFour


The ladies who are on child #2, 3, 4... they don't get a shower, they get a 'sprinkle.'

Kind of the same way they take care of their hygiene, then?

The man I'm seeing now does eventually want to marry me, but we will most likely not be having a wedding at all, even though cost is not an issue.

I am also not expecting a big, shiny ring, though he certainly can afford it.

Honestly, I'm a very non-demanding person in general.

My ring cost Mr. Peace about 2 weeks salary, and it's a nice .49 carat stone with a high clarity rating. But that was 13 years ago, and he works in IT I like my shiny, useless rock. It's pretty, and DH was proud to buy it for me as a surprise. After 10 years of marriage, it's only grown in value to me, because it's a gift from him.

Besides, I thought this thread was about pregnancy and childbirth, not on men's perceptions of engagement rings.

So back to the topic :-)

I would like to discuss it from the men's POV.
I recently had a discussion with my DH
and I think that most men have absolutely no idea
what pignasty and birth really are.

Pignasty according to my DH: woman gets inpig,
only her belly grows otherwise she doesn't gain any weight.
There are no limitations like tiredness, moodswings, sickness etc.
She has just big belly, everything else remains the same.
Birth is painless as there is medication for that and it
doesn't take long. A pignant woman arrives in the hospital
and 30 minutes later a new larvae appears. So efortless and easy, right.

He didn't know that episiotomy exists (!) and c-section looks
like no big deal for him.

I think that this perception of pignasty and birth is caused by media.
When you watch a movie or a series, there are pregnant women
who look great - only big belly, no excess fat, make-up and hair
in place. They are never sick, they work full time till birth.
Births are portrayed in the same manner.

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mrs. chinaski

When you watch a movie or a series, there are pregnant women
who look great - only big belly, no excess fat, make-up and hair
in place. They are never sick, they work full time till birth.
Births are portrayed in the same manner.

Movies/TV shows must be where the members of the GOP get the idea that popping out larvae isn't a big deal instead of consulting that pesky "secular-science" or the "irrational wimmins" when they want to ban birth-control and abortion.

@mrs.Chinaski: Holy crap! I thought our media here in USA was idiotic. It looks not very different where you are. I am shocked to the point of shame for my own gender about how ignorant some men really are. I knew more about pignasty at the age of 10 than many men know at the age of 30 - this is a huge problem. It is frightening that many men go into fatherhood with this little of knowledge.

ETA: You know what else is scary? I have met a few women who think that pregnancy and childbirth is what your SO thinks it is. It seems like women who did have kids, they do not tell the awful details. Women who did not have kids are not properly informed. Maybe for women who had kids, the experience is so awful, their mind blocks the memories of it to prevent psychological damages. If a human mind keeps re-living a particular event, chemicals similar to the ones released during the event maybe released over and over. A defense mechanism from that is to block it out of one's mind.

@ worker-b: that must be it :-)

@ Techie: I am sure that you an exception.
Most men have no idea about "female" things, IMHO.

I think that women don't tell the awful details out of shame.
There are some issues you don't want to share with anyone
as they are really private.
For more info on the subject please refer to scary mommy confessions :-)

I must admit I am not any better. I firstly heard about episiotomy
when I was 24! I still don't know everything.
Recently, I learned something new. One woman I know had
too much amniotic fluid in her womb. She had to go every 2nd
day to hospital to have it removed. Yeah, pignasty is sunshine,
rainbows and unicorns!

I don't care what anybody spends on anything so long as it is not my money.
Guys who brag about how much they spent on a ring are classless and trashy. They don't need to tell or justify.
People being told to "cover their plate" have been invited to a classless and trashy event, as nobody but the person writing the check for any event needs to know how much it costs. They need to decline the invitation and don't need to justify it. A simple check "no" on the rsvp or a polite phone call/note/email saying "sorry we can't make it. Congatulations" will suffice.
Requiring new attire? Horseshit. If asked to be in the wedding party decline. If it is demanded for the wedding it is tacky of the wedding couple, so decline.
I agree, weddings are out of hand. However, nobody has to participate in a wedding other than the bride, groom and officiant. People falling on their fainting couches over other people's expenses need to grow backbones and decline. Unless a gun is held to a person's head, they needn't attend any event to or spend money they don't want.

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Peace
My ring cost Mr. Peace about 2 weeks salary, and it's a nice .49 carat stone with a high clarity rating. But that was 13 years ago, and he works in IT I like my shiny, useless rock. It's pretty, and DH was proud to buy it for me as a surprise. After 10 years of marriage, it's only grown in value to me, because it's a gift from him.

Besides, I thought this thread was about pregnancy and childbirth, not on men's perceptions of engagement rings.

Many diamond rings are 'push' presents. "Push out the brat, here's a gift for effort

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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mrs.Chinaski
@ Techie: I am sure that you an exception.
Most men have no idea about "female" things, IMHO.

I have a number of male friends who knew way more than I did when I was young. I might not be in a majority, but I don't know that I am an exception. When I was growing up, I was always reminded by older women how painful and terrible childbirth and pregnancy is. They always bitched how it was all men's fault. I used to think that I'd make one good husband because there was no way I would ever tell a woman to have a kid - I did not want any

Later on, I learned how baby rabid some women really are and that I was not told the entire truth, but hey, I have learned the important truth - childbirth is very damaging. And as far as being a good husband, humor me not, I was called every nasty name in the book by my exes for me not wanting to breed.

What I love are the pregnant women on television programs and in movies, who give birth to nice clean 4 month olds.

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ex lurker
What I love are the pregnant women on television programs and in movies, who give birth to nice clean 4 month olds.

Is it not just awesome? Pure magic. When I was around 2, I thought that people could fly because Peter Pan could. Luckily, I had educated parents who did all that they could to explain to me that such is not possible in real life and that what I saw was something that was meant to simply be fun. My grandparents used to tell me that if what was shown on TV was just real life, nobody would watch it because it would be too boring.

What is really scary is that today's parents are so gullible that not only they allow their kids to believe what is shown for pure entertainment but they also believe it themselves. We are talking not just failed education system here, we are possibly looking at failed society which has no comprehension of the real world or the consequences of their actions.

@ ex lurker: exactly! fresh loaf looks gross

@ Techie:
"And as far as being a good husband, humor me not, I was called every nasty name in the book by my exes for me not wanting to breed."
-> They really didn't get you. There is a myth - if he says he doesn't want to have chyldren it means that he doesn't want to have chyldren WITH YOU. Your exes obviously fell for it.

"What is really scary is that today's parents are so gullible that not only they allow their kids to believe what is shown for pure entertainment but they also believe it themselves."
-> I remember that many parunts wanted to buy a white owl for their chylren due to Harry Potter.
White owl in a cage for a budgie in a city. That makes sense! #NOT

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mrs.Chinaski
They really didn't get you. There is a myth - if he says he doesn't want to have chyldren it means that he doesn't want to have chyldren WITH YOU. Your exes obviously fell for it.

That is EXACTLY what exes used to say to me. The last one was the worst about it. She kept saying how ALL men breed as soon as they find a new GF that they truly love. Yeah, Ok. It's been a few years and I am still who I am. There was a bunch of other stuff said too, such as if a man loves a woman, he wants to have children with her and how only the worst of all players refuse to have kids. I was "uncommitted, unloving, untrustworthy", bunch of other negative stuff too. Never mind I paid all bills and allowed her to live off my income when she had no job. Her response was: "You are just trying to buy love" - Yeah, Ok. Why in the world would women desire to have kids with a "playa", I have no idea. I really did not and cannot understand why people that are not happy, why would they think a kid is going to fix anything?

In a short version of all this, I am VERY glad that crap is over. If there is such a thing as God, sending those women packing was his gracious hand. Another thing, almost all men who gave in and bred - they never made those women happier. If anything, those women got worse. One of such duhs told me a story. He said that when his wife was giving birth, she was in pain that was so bad, she kept passing out. When she would awaken a few seconds later, she would cuss at him and say: "Mother fucker, you never are going to touch me again, look what women have to endure" - here is the thing. HE DID NOT WANT A KID - she did. Some love there, eh?

@ mrs. chinaski: same with DH, he had no idea what pregnancy and childbirth entails, just the 5 minutes grunts and pop the baybee out from TV shows. When i told him, he was terrified. And then he started to work in healthcare, most of his colleagues were women and detailed childbirth stories were a common thing during lunch breaks. Then he got even more terrified. larious

I didn't know many things and i'm sure i still don't but i found them out with the help of internet. Plus there are always new gross details popping up around here, i had no idea about.

What, they don't show "that" film in the fifth grade anymore? No illusions there.

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blondie
What, they don't show "that" film in the fifth grade anymore? No illusions there.

Was the film called "Miracle of life"? We were shown that. It was the whole deal, from start to finish. I did not think birthing details were explained well enough.

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blackpearl
I didn't know many things and i'm sure i still don't but i found them out with the help of internet. Plus there are always new gross details popping up around here, i had no idea about.

When I was a kid, I asked why the truth about child birth is not spoken more often. I was politely told that if the whole truth was told, very few people would have kids.

@ Techie:
"Another thing, almost all men who gave in and bred - they never made those women happier. If anything, those women got worse."
-> those are cases of breeder brain. I think that it has even some religious aspect.
Buddhists want to reach nirvana which is a state of freedom from suffering and rebirth.
Breeders want to reach the state of permanent dissatisfaction so they do everything what is necessary to get there.

@ blackpearl: ROFL

@ Techie: When I was a kid, I asked why the truth about child birth is not spoken more often.
I was politely told that if the whole truth was told, very few people would have kids.
-> It looks like you spoke to a reasonable, no bullshit person :-)

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mrs.Chinaski
It looks like you spoke to a reasonable, no bullshit person

I grew up knowing that Santa was just human imagination. Come to think about it, many other people around me were raised with the same information. As far as breeding goes, I have discovered that some people simply develop an urge that they have no reason for. I would say that there was and still is a good majority of men who did not and do not desire to breed. They get married and the arm twisting begins. Most have no balls to walk away. Given the waterworks by their wives, they are just too weak hearted to say: "You can have all the kids that you want, just not with me". Frankly, it's not an easy task to say no but what are the choices? There are none.

Some guys also try to reason and say: "You will not find a woman who does not want kids". Being CF, yes, it is a good possibility, but, what is the alternative? Breeding is not much of a life.

There was a thread on here earlier about how childbirth is so painful but every woman and birth is different, but the question I have is: Why aren't there more only children? It seems if childbirth is that bad (I believe it is), what woman would want to go through it again?

Then again, it could be like a story my dad told us: If women and men took turns having kids, families would only have 3 kids: The woman would have one, the man the second, the woman would have a 3rd, but then the man would not have another.

@mr.Neptune: very good points you brought up about men. In my observation, it is usually women who pester men to have more kids. I think if men were capable of giving birth, I think the birth rate out of men would be approximately what it is now - zero. There are some breeder brained, culture conditioned men out there, no argument. But, I have been told by a number of women how they just "needed to have a bay-bee" and how their "uterus felt empty" as wel as they "needed to hold something in their arms" all long with a whole bunch of other, irrational to me, statements. Having every one of my relationships fail because exes wanted to breed and knowing very many other men who were or are in similar situations, I tend to believe that regardless of pain, some people will simply want to breed. Believe me, I had plenty of discussions with my exes about what pignasty will do to them, NONE of that gave me an inch towards a CF direction. Zero, nada.

I tend to think that being CF is in some way is just who I am. I could maybe relate it to someone who is asexual and does not desire sex. That person will see no value in sex just like I see no value in breeding. On the other hand, I think breeding is just how some people are. Even if breeding can result in death - people will still do it. Very similar to sex. People, in many places of the world, know that sex can cause death in their case. They will still proceed to have sex.