Dear Prudie - Childfree and totally in the wrong

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Dorisan
Except that it is likely not going to be much of a marriage when she tells him or he discovers "I've decided that I can't do the kid thang."

I think there is not much of a marriage for her now. She is probably buying her time until she is able to safely bail. I really don't know her situation, but in cases like hers, one of 3 things happens (1 being the least often to happen, 3 being more often to happen):

1) Her breeder male creature actually gives 2 shits and he is able to stop pestering her about the kid thing.

2) She is able to get her stuff together and leaves on her terms.

3) She has a conversation with the male creature - he does not budge an inch. Creature-in-law gets notified and the heat and pressure are now on. Brainwashing is full force. All of her friends and relatives are now on the breeder's side. She gets knocked up and because she was honest and opened up about abortion, this time she is simply not able to get one because she is being manipulated 24/7/365.

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Dorisan
And she's not even doing that, she's trying to keep up a lie that makes him think kids will come along one way or another.

When it comes to breeders, it is a common occurrence that the CF is not fighting a fair battle. They are often outnumbered and are forced to stand on their own against very many. I am 100% certain that there are MANY people on this board who were in such situation at least once. I know I was and I know several people in real life who were too. It is not a fair or open battle and sometimes one must fight fire with fire. When it comes to breeders, honesty is not something that they use. Why should the CF be honest?

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Dorisan
Sure makes me appreciate the stability and compatibility of the person I've been with for three decades

It is why you may find the situation described to Prudie to be a particularly odd one. I personally did not get as fortunate and I did not get to have 30 years of stable relationship. Instead, I had my SO flip her stand and demand to breed. There was no honesty and there was no decency. I got jumped by breeders from every direction and even my own family was not very supportive of my CF choice. If there is one thing that I did wrong, it was that I was being honest. If I was being a snake, I would have beat the breeders at their own game. Now, I am a guy. If I was a woman, my situation would have been a whole lot worse. Being honest with breeders will not get a CF person anyplace good.

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Dorisan
With the couple in Prudie's letter, I'm betting that three years in and they've done a lot of things that have bound them together in a way that it will be a mess to dissolve.

At best it will be a mess to dissolve. It will take a very long time too. I have had more than one relationship end because my SO wanted to breed and it is a very slow and frustrating process, to say the least. When it comes to breeders, nothing is off the table. Robbing the CF person of all that they have and throwing them out on the street is not off the table and will not raise an eye brow in anyone. As far as the world that we live in is concerned, CF person deserved the punishment.

From my personal observation, right to not procreate is probably the most attacked right that there is. It has been attacked from every direction including legal, societal, personal, professional, rhetorical, relational and familial. I don't know of any other right that has been attacked as much, by as many people, as a right to not procreate.

Can we let the facts get in a way of a fake story that has been promoted for centuries? Our society does not permit facts to reflect the reality. In the case that is being discussed, people tend to concentrate on what kind of promises this woman made to her male counterpart or what kind of marriage she is in or how dared she to deceive the sperminator. But I feel that people forget the most important part of all, the part why this website is here. It is the part that supports individual's right to not procreate against their wishes - I feel that it is the part that so many people miss.

I have to assume that she is so ascared of being alone and thinks no one will want her that she'd rather stay with what she's got rather than finding someone more compatible, a.k.a. settling. Even if the guy is fantastic, these two are oil and water, and someone's gonna hate their life if one gives in to the other's wishes. The guy has made it clear he wants kids, but like you guys have said, we are only hearing the writer's side of the story. We don't know what their communication is like. Has she actually told her husband she doesn't want kids? Did he change his mind after they got married because he wanted to snag a woman without baggage to bear his progeny? I have to assume she hasn't told him about how her not wanting kids considering that he decided that it was time for them to make a loaf, and that when the clump took hold, the wife had it flushed out. Is she secretly on contraception to keep herself from getting pregnant, or has she had more than one abortion? After a few months of trying with no success as far as wanna-Duh knows, of course he's gonna wonder what's wrong. He could get his sperm count checked, and if it's found to be normal, it's gonna be on her. Must be everything's ship-shape with her, so if she gets a shitload of fertility-related testing done that all come back normal, then what?

Rather than waste time and money on fertility treatments, Moo needs to come clean with the guy. It's not fair to him when he wants to breed and his wife will prevent herself from ever carrying a loaf to term. And it's not fair to her to be with a guy who's gonna keep pawing her for a brat and then most likely take it out on her when he doesn't get one. She thought she could give him a loaf, she gave it a try, panicked and aborted. Maybe it's because she's not sure right now, or maybe having a fetus growing in her pushed her off the fence and into CFdom. If she's anything but 110% sure, then she did the right thing by getting an abortion. But if he's such a great guy, why does she want to keep on deceiving him?

And as far as proof of abortion, unless she had it done at wherever she'd be going for fertility treatments and it was in her records and/or it was very very soon after she had it done, I don't think a doctor could tell. They can tell if you've given birth, but I don't think they can tell by looking if you've had an abortion. But I could be wrong.

Either way, it's not right to just drag this guy along for the ride if he's got his heart set on breeding. It's not gonna be easy or fun, but she needs to be honest with him. Who knows, maybe he'll decide that he'd rather be with her than have brats, but he seems to be rooting more for Team Loaf. For fuck's sake, there are plenty of guys out there... and ladies, if she happens to be bi. What is so important about being with this particular guy? Is it really worse to be alone than to be with someone who disagrees with you on such a major relationship issue, and who will put you through considerable stress because you can't see eye to eye on the subject of kids?

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mrs. chinaski
We all project our experience of life into it.

Very good point. When it comes to "CF" partners, my experiences were less than positive. My posts reflect my previous situations in vivid detail. Those were situations that I have lived through, those were the situations that I get to share. I simply never had it any other way.

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mrs. chinaski
I just feel sympathy for that woman.

Not only do I feel sympathy, I feel the heat and sorrow of her situation as it is sliding down a very slippery slope into a smelly, dirty swamp.

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mrs. chinaski
I am married, I really do like my DH but I don't want to have chyldren.
Nobody understands it.

Finding support for your situation is not easy. Most people are fortunate enough to not have had encountered it in the way that you do. If someone has not been in it, they may have their best support in mind, but they simply are not able to relate or understand it even though they are giving their best to be able to do so.

I know where you stand but it has been many years for me since I have been there and for as much as I try to not forget what it was like, time does fix many things as well as make me numb to what has happened. While I do try to offer my best suggestions, I probably don't nail the situation as good as I used to a few years ago.

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mrs. chinaski
I get to hear that I cannot love him when
I don't want to give him a chyld.

I got to hear that I could not love a woman unless I loved her unborn children. I was told that I am an abuser because I was denying a woman her very basic right to procreate. I was told that I was not a real man and that my existence on this planet was not justified. I was told I had no business being with a woman because being with a woman meant supporting her bay-bee habits.

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mrs. chinaski
My in-laws are constantly showing me their disappointment
because "there is no baybeh".

I was there too and I also had to endure the 'talking to' by the outlaws who kept reminding me that they were 'ready for the grandchyldryns'

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mrs. chinaski
My MIL told neighbours that I didn't want to have chyldren.

Your MIL is a typical breeder bitch. Breeders stop at nothing to get what they want.

Your situation is very unfair. When people suggest honesty in relationships - please use honesty only where appropriate and applicable. Sometimes honesty does not work and at that point you have to use whatever the force that is necessary to preserve YOUR life and what you stand for. A little hint: Breeders don't play honestly.

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mrs. chinaski
Since then, some people are openly hostile towards me.
Others look at me as if I were some kind of a freak.

This is an example where everyone turns on you and you are left to fight your own battle. You can't physically and mentally win because you are outnumbered. If you have your DH's support, you can actually fight a battle. If he falls to the pressure, it is now a completely different battle field, in which you may have to fight like a partisan in order to be able to sustain the battle or be forced to raise the white flag, which is what they REALLY hope for. Can you win? Yes, absolutely. At the very least, you don't have to surrender and you CAN keep your freedom if you cherish it.

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/dictionary/partisan
PARTISAN: a member of a body of detached light troops making forays and harassing an enemy

a member of a guerrilla band operating within enemy lines

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mrs. chinaski
My DH is sometimes in a very bad mood due to work-related things.
He works long hours, commutes. Sometimes things don't go smoothly etc...
My MIL then tells me: "He is sad because he has no chyld.
If he had chyld, EVERYTHING WOULD BE BETTER."

Manipulation and mental abuse know of no limit. She is going to take any opportunity that she gets and run with it in order to keep promoting her breeder agenda.

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mrs. chinaski
This woman will have to defend her CF the same way I do.
I feel for her because I exactly know what's in store for her.

And that is why I say that fighting dirty is permitted. You are fighting an uphill battle and so will this woman.

I am going to venture into another subject and hopefully I can better connect the dots. Prior to 1865, slavery was legal in the United States. If a slave ran away, people would put their efforts together to capture the slave and do the "right thing" and return the slave to the master. People genuinely thought that they were doing the very right thing that they were supposed to be doing. If was a joint effort of many members of the society and the only way that slaves could gain freedom was to fight like a partisan.

Today, I feel, CF lifestyle is being persecuted in somewhat of a similar way as a slave was persecuted back before 1865. I chose slaves as a comparison because to me, raising a kid for 18 years is somewhat similar to slavery. We are legally enslaved to that dependent and we are legally required to provide for them. It is also a joint societal effort to enslave women into such arrangement because that is what I have seen with my own eyes.

Similarly to escaping slavery, people must take unordinary and unusual steps in order to gain their freedom. Such steps are not always approved and will often be challenged because today, slavery to children is a very normal occurrence.

@ Techie: "I got to hear that I could not love a woman unless I loved her unborn children.
I was told that I am an abuser because I was denying a woman her very basic right to procreate.
I was told that I was not a real man and that my existence on this planet was not justified.
I was told I had no business being with a woman because being with a woman meant supporting her bay-bee habits."
-> this is such an abusive shit. Breeders don't know the beginning and the end.

"When people suggest honesty in relationships - please use honesty only where appropriate and applicable.
Sometimes honesty does not work and at that point you have to use whatever the force that is necessary
to preserve YOUR life and what you stand for. A little hint: Breeders don't play honestly."
-> spot on!

I have the same POV.
The whole analysis is a perfection, I have nothing to add.

This woman needs to be honest with her husband so they can both move on.
My husband had a bipolar urge to adopt but it would never occur to me to lead him to believe I wanted to adopt (thanks to the snip we can't breed) but I would never mislead him to think this was even an option.
Obviously, abortion was the best choice for her.
She is also being a selfish bitch who hopefully will sterilized or a LARC at the very least and tell her husband about it.

What's done is done, and now she needs to tell the guy she is CF. They can take it from there. No one says it will be fun but it's not the first time nor that last partners come to find they are incompatible.

Call me in the middle. She does not owe her husband a baby but she does owe him honesty. She married him knowing he wanted kids and at the very least she had her doubts on the fence. She thought she could do it but she could not when faced with reality.

I actually have no issues with her aborting--people get cold feet on many issues...it is perpetuating the lie that I have a problem with.

To LW: He may be a great guy but he is not a great guy for a CF woman. Cowgirl up, sit him down and tell the truth about not wanting kids. Yes you will likely lose him, but this is not fair to him or you. Yes you will likely remain single for a long time or even forever, but this is not a fair arrangement to either person...and it definitely would not be to a baby brought into this mess.

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."