A peek into the future - today's chyldren will work to 100

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3262763/Why-children-prepared-work-100.html

Mr Talwar said youngsters should be ready to have 40 jobs during their career, working ‘potentially up to the age of 100’ and living to 120.

He pointed to research that suggests between 30 per cent and 80 per cent of the jobs that exist today will disappear in the next ten to 20 years.
‘On the one hand we’ll be living longer,’ he said. ‘On the other hand we’re not sure how people are going to earn the money to buy the goods and services that will largely be produced by smart software and robots … Will it be right to assume that everyone will still have a job?
‘Or will it be natural for 50 per cent of the population to not be working … If they do have a job all the way through their career, that means they’ll be working potentially up to the age of 100.’
And they ‘might well have 40 jobs in that period in ten different careers’, he added.

The future will be bright!

I have a suspicion there are going some really large ghettos, with a bunch of really broke and starving people living there. Most countries already have such ghettos. I see them getting bigger as jobs are being eliminated, resources getting more more expensive due to overuse and shortage, living spaces being more crowded due to people migrating out of worse areas and trying to find something better.

I can't remember where I heard this story or where it comes from (and I might be butchering it) or who it's about, but there was once a man way back when that had the choice of whether to use a some sort of farming machine that saved him needing the labor of 40 men, or to actually hire 40 men. I think the man asked about the jobless unhappy men he saw all over the place, getting into mischief and just lolling about because they weren't needed anymore. 'Oh those? They aren't needed anymore. You can save money with the machine."

In the end he decided against the machine, because it was better for everyone in the area to hire the men, then to have the machine take away jobs and leave them jobless and poor.

I think this is the downside and the under-discussed darkside of technology, in that there are sooo many eager to taut it's benefits and sing it's praises, but nobody wants to talk bad about it, even when it's negative effects are very real. I'm wondering if there might come a point whether or not one has to decide about getting a labor saving machine that benefits (and profits) oneself, or to think of the community at large and give someone a job.

@nightfire: society has been slowly dividing into the very rich and the very poor. Those who own the "machine" will be rich, the rest - dirt poor. Jobs are always being cut and have been for a long time. Rich will be richer, poor will be poorer.

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nightfire
I can't remember where I heard this story or where it comes from (and I might be butchering it) or who it's about, but there was once a man way back when that had the choice of whether to use a some sort of farming machine that saved him needing the labor of 40 men, or to actually hire 40 men. I think the man asked about the jobless unhappy men he saw all over the place, getting into mischief and just lolling about because they weren't needed anymore. 'Oh those? They aren't needed anymore. You can save money with the machine."

In the end he decided against the machine, because it was better for everyone in the area to hire the men, then to have the machine take away jobs and leave them jobless and poor.

I think this is the downside and the under-discussed darkside of technology, in that there are sooo many eager to taut it's benefits and sing it's praises, but nobody wants to talk bad about it, even when it's negative effects are very real. I'm wondering if there might come a point whether or not one has to decide about getting a labor saving machine that benefits (and profits) oneself, or to think of the community at large and give someone a job.

A World WIthout Work --The Atlantic, August 2015


Within the next 10-20 years, it's about to get very dystopian. I am not a "gloom and doomer" by nature, but I think modernity is going to be very disappointing for a large number of people.

The idea that medical advances are going to allow us to live to 100-120 years of age... hmm... let's think about this for a moment. You're going to have a ruling class of those who own the machines, a small middle class who does what labor is left to do, for the machines, and a very large subsistence/working/welfare class.

Do you really think that the ruling class is going to advocate for all kinds of "free" healthcare for this welfare class, so that they can live to be 120 years old? They will be for lack of a better phrase, "useless eaters."

The techno-optimists say the future will be simple--the machines will do the work, everyone will have some sort of government guaranteed "income," and with all of this free time the masses will learn other languages, musical instruments, and become well versed in literature. Unfortunately the data says that this virtually NEVER happens with unemployed people. Over time they lose their sense of self worth and turn to drinking, drugs, depression, and producing unwanted children. It's a sad road.

I'm sorry I just can't envision any future of the world being a technological paradise when we're past peak oil, past 9.5 billion people, and full of automation. I see a world with serious resource shortages, machines to do most of the work, and a very poor and destitute lower class.

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nightfire
I think this is the downside and the under-discussed darkside of technology, in that there are sooo many eager to taut it's benefits and sing it's praises, but nobody wants to talk bad about it, even when it's negative effects are very real. I'm wondering if there might come a point whether or not one has to decide about getting a labor saving machine that benefits (and profits) oneself, or to think of the community at large and give someone a job.

We're only told of the upsides to technology. I do believe technology will inevitably get better, of course. But will it be better for humans?


Most people who are living to 85, 90, 100 years old now, are living with a prolonged period of illness, arthritis, diabetes, heart disease, pain, etc. Knowing that... should it be considered an "advancement" to keep people alive to be 120 or so? Ehhh... I have my doubts.

The company where my DH works wanted to hire a designer for a project (industrial design).
There is a website - a pool - where designers are listed. They work as freelancers.
One was hired for a few months. He said to my DH that he would like to get a stable job
but it simply wasn't possible. He has no steady job and income - f.e. he works for company A
for three months, then he has nothing to do for one months, then he works for company
B for five months, then he has no job for two months etc.

I think this modell will be gradually adapted by the industry. People will become freelancers and companies
will hire them for a particular task and then drop them.

@ Studio54: "The techno-optimists say the future will be simple--the machines will do the work, everyone will have some sort of government guaranteed "income," and with all of this free time the masses will learn other languages, musical instruments, and become well versed in literature. Unfortunately the data says that this virtually NEVER happens with unemployed people. Over time they lose their sense of self worth and turn to drinking, drugs, depression, and producing unwanted children. It's a sad road."
-> I think that it depends on the "income" and what you can "buy" for it. If there were f.e. different courses at the colleges which would be affordable then it could happen. But all in all, I have a problem with one thing. I believe that most people are motivated to learn something new because the new skill promises them f.e. an advancement in their careers. They have a concrete motivation, a goal. A very few people will pursue further education for nothing.

Sure we may be able to live longer but we won't be allowed to, Medicare is already tossing old people out of hospitals when they are still sick.

The future is not going to be intellectuals with free time learning and exploring (lol), it will be more like Soylent Green with hordes of hungry dirty breeders grubbing for food and money. At least the way it's going now.

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blondie
Sure we may be able to live longer but we won't be allowed to, Medicare is already tossing old people out of hospitals when they are still sick.

The future is not going to be intellectuals with free time learning and exploring (lol), it will be more like Soylent Green with hordes of hungry dirty breeders grubbing for food and money. At least the way it's going now.

This. Oh, and the tards. Just think of the vast number of tards that will be out there roaming the streets, unless they are dealt with in some way, such as mass institutions or something like that.

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mrs. chinaski

-> I think that it depends on the "income" and what you can "buy" for it. If there were f.e. different courses at the colleges which would be affordable then it could happen. But all in all, I have a problem with one thing. I believe that most people are motivated to learn something new because the new skill promises them f.e. an advancement in their careers. They have a concrete motivation, a goal. A very few people will pursue further education for nothing.

I agree.

And even if people wanted to take the college courses for the sake of learning, who exactly would pay for those courses? [ie., the professor, the building, the heat, electricity, maintenance, etc.?] The students? They can't because they don't have a job, remember? Machines and computers and automation do most of the work.

Generally speaking "the masses" do not do well when presented with lots and lots of free time, nothing to do, and no obligations. The data shows depression, drinking, drugs, and unwanted pregnancy. I'm not sure why the techno-optimists think that the future is going to be filled with intellectuals debating philosophy while machines do all the work. I believe it will be a few people at the top who own all of the capital and the machines, and a whole lot of hungry people who have a very hardscrabble existence.

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StudioFiftyFour

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mrs. chinaski

-> I think that it depends on the "income" and what you can "buy" for it. If there were f.e. different courses at the colleges which would be affordable then it could happen. But all in all, I have a problem with one thing. I believe that most people are motivated to learn something new because the new skill promises them f.e. an advancement in their careers. They have a concrete motivation, a goal. A very few people will pursue further education for nothing.

I agree.

And even if people wanted to take the college courses for the sake of learning, who exactly would pay for those courses? [ie., the professor, the building, the heat, electricity, maintenance, etc.?] The students? They can't because they don't have a job, remember? Machines and computers and automation do most of the work.

Generally speaking "the masses" do not do well when presented with lots and lots of free time, nothing to do, and no obligations. The data shows depression, drinking, drugs, and unwanted pregnancy. I'm not sure why the techno-optimists think that the future is going to be filled with intellectuals debating philosophy while machines do all the work. I believe it will be a few people at the top who own all of the capital and the machines, and a whole lot of hungry people who have a very hardscrabble existence.

Idiocracy is a documentary.

_______________________________________________
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

Anybody who has a chance of working and making decent money are those from the upper echelons of society who specialize in areas that machines may not able to replace. Who knows what those will be; they're trying to make robots that can do surgery.

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

Most of the technological advancements are created in order to be able to sustain higher population density on this planet. People will always have something to do. In my own experience, my day off from my regular job is never a day off from working - I always have something to do that needed done long time ago. People did not work 80 hours per week 150 years ago, yet, most people were busy.

What was the difference 150 years ago? World population was at 1 billion. We have grown 8 times that. Add all the industry and food production that is needed to support that and we are living on borrowed time already. Imagine our Earth being a bank account. 200 years ago we used to live of the interest payments. Today, we have depleted the account and we are getting by on spare change that is left over in our pockets.

Population growth cannot be stopped. Even if everyone in USA was to stop having a kid, our government will simply bring more people from elsewhere. People are denied birth control and education in other parts of the world because more people means cheap labor to build more mega wealth for the ultra rich. Population growth has definitely benefited the rich and latest income statistics really show it.

The real Inconvenient Truth is human overpopulation. The person who wrote the Incomvenient Truth has an offspring count of 4. The Inconvenient Truth is not a politically correct truth so I don't see it being exposed anytime soon.

I wanted to add something. Why don't colleges and universities teach this? It's simple. School is a business that has offers many jobs. What business ever prospers from declining customer base? In theory, state funded schools don't have such incentive but in reality, if enrollment drops, jobs at school will certainly be cut. No school employee wants to lose income - I can't blame them.

Since many of them still aren't working at 40 but living in their parents basement eating free meals and playing computer games I doubt they will work at all.

No, there will still be jobs....serving the ruling class and fixing their machines.

As an example, I just read an article about how Disney World ticket prices have outpaced inflation. Disney knows who to squeeze for $$$ and it's definitely not Joe Sixpack and family.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/06/12/how-theme-parks-like-disney-world-left-the-middle-class-behind/

Only one way to resolve this: starve 'em out. Don't spend your money on their overpriced trinkets. Grow your own food. Buy local goods. Shop secondhand. You're stuck buying some things like medical, utilities and insurance but you can shop smarter. Don't make these greedy, spoiled fucks any wealthier. I don't work hard just to give my money away to rich people.

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"[GFG's pregnancy is] kind of like at the stables where that one dumb, ugly-ass mare broke out of her corral one day and got herself screwed by the equally fugly colt that was due to be gelded the same afternoon."- Shiny

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Miss_Hannigan
No, there will still be jobs....serving the ruling class and fixing their machines.

As an example, I just read an article about how Disney World ticket prices have outpaced inflation. Disney knows who to squeeze for $$$ and it's definitely not Joe Sixpack and family.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/06/12/how-theme-parks-like-disney-world-left-the-middle-class-behind/

Only one way to resolve this: starve 'em out. Don't spend your money on their overpriced trinkets. Grow your own food. Buy local goods. Shop secondhand. You're stuck buying some things like medical, utilities and insurance but you can shop smarter. Don't make these greedy, spoiled fucks any wealthier. I don't work hard just to give my money away to rich people.

I'm with you. I believe most of the people driving luxury cars and wearing designer clothes are posers, and desperately trying to give off an "upper middle class" image when they are anything but.

As far as those Average Joes fixing all of the machines... I don't think that will exist to the degree that the optimists think it will. In other words, when 100 human-directed jobs vanish, they won't be replaced by 100 robots/computers who need 100 human computer programmers. They'll be replaced by 100 robots/computers who need 1 or 2 human computer programmers.

And as for Disney, understand that they operate within an extremely competitive marketplace. There are many vacation destinations for famblees, and a slew of them are in Florida. It's all about supply and demand. If they made their tickets really cheap, it would result in the park being "sold out" each and every day. This would mean lines even more outrageously long than they already are, and people feeling like they weren't getting good value for their dollar.

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Miss_Hannigan
Grow your own food. Buy local goods. Shop secondhand.

Since I heard about Michael Reynolds and his self-sufficient houses,
I cannot stop thinking about it. It's like a step in the right
direction - a step to independence.

I noticed that even nowadays you cannot manage anymore with just one profession, but this depends on the field of course. So it will be no wonder if somebody will hold different jobs in different areas during their lifetime. Not that is anything wrong with it as long as you have a job.

The overpopulation issue is still a taboo in my opinion and there are lots of people who are plainly denying it, for them overpopulation is just a conspiracy theory, a myth, you name it.

I'm also not a fan of consumerism and shop most of the time second-hand for mostly anything i can find. I'm lucky enough to have my own patch of garden and plant veggies as much as possible as Finnish climate is very harsh. Also i repair things (mostly clothes and furniture) and reuse, recycle stuff. I'm though pissed beyond god that most of the electronics nowadays are impossible to fix. They make them in such a way that you either can't fix them or fixing is more expensive than buying another one.

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mrs. chinaski

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Miss_Hannigan
Grow your own food. Buy local goods. Shop secondhand.

Since I heard about Michael Reynolds and his self-sufficient houses,
I cannot stop thinking about it. It's like a step in the right
direction - a step to independence.

I have the greatest of faith in the various powers that be in the USA , whether government , corporation, or law enforcement and judicial.

If the rest of us find a way to even approach self sufficiency and independence, any of the steps we take to achieve those states will immediately be banned, probably with unnervingly draconian penalties .

A brave soul will ignore the unjust ban, and s/he will be "made an example of", to terrify the rest of us back in line.

Probably "safety" will be the mantra.Especially the safety of 'the children'.

In some locales, people are forbidden to grow vegetable gardens if they're in the front yard (which may be the only part of the yard that's big enough) , in others, rain barrels are illegal as they prevent rain water from replenishing aquifers...It used to be legal to buy unpasteurized dairy products directly from the farmer. (To this day, I am haunted by the memory of what farm-fresh butter tastes like compared to the bland over priced crap in supermarkets-and I last had FF butter in the early 1980s! )But it's now impossible around here to buy "raw" milk, cheese, butter....Yes, there are some risks in "raw" dairy products, but as an adult, why am I not allowed to decide for myself if I'm willing to take that risk?

Regulatory agencies created to control huge meat processors that were selling dangerously unsafe, even toxic wares, are being used to prevent "hobby" cheesemakers and small farmers from selling their goods to the public -while those same agencies turn a blind eye to horrenous abuses in meat inspection at huge meat processing plants, as their lobbyists succeeded in gutting the regulations for inspecting meats! (Read Rifkin's Beyond Beef-and note publication date; apparently it's gotten worse since then.)

It's already pretty hard being a small business owner or entrepreneur going into business for oneself ....It almost seems like there's a conspiracy to prevent anyone not born to established wealth from doing anything with his or her life but spend it working to create wealth for others...If enough people try to opt out of the current economic system, you can bet the already existing regulatory hurdles will be multiplied and made even harder to overcome.

I was a young person in the 1980s, and even then, I was seeing laws being passed (state and federal level) that were obviously written and passed solely to make the rest of us act in ways that suited the convenience and profits of the wealthy and powerful. Like they think of us as unmolded clay, that they can form and control to suit their ends, Constitution be damned...And it's only got worse,with globalization . I can't wait to see what happens when the trans pacific partnership is ratified.

You're completely right about the dairy industry. I work at one that produces cheese and we are so fucking regulated it's ridiculous. Granted, I would not consume raw dairy products from a dairy I didn't "know" well but it should be a person's choice to do so. My husband, employers, and I have been consuming raw milk and cheese from our animals for over a decade and not a one of us has managed to die yet.

Soft cheeses HAVE to be pasteurized and raw cheeses must be aged...hmm I think 60 days? It could be 90, it slips my mind - I work with the stock, not so much in the cheese room.

And the inspectors can be total dickheads too, I might mention. It feels like they are always AGAINST us. Fucking annoying, and I honestly don't know how long we'll stay in the dairy industry. It's the goats I love, not that part.

~ The Goat Whisperer ~
I have almost 200 kids and every one of them is smarter than your child.

@ ex-lurker:
"If the rest of us find a way to even approach self sufficiency and independence, any of the steps we take to achieve those states will immediately be banned, probably with unnervingly draconian penalties."
-> Yes.

“If you create your own electricity, heating and water systems, you create your own politics. Maybe that’s what they’re afraid of” says architect Michael Reynolds, hero of Garbage Warrior.

@ blackpearl: "I'm though pissed beyond god that most of the electronics nowadays are impossible to fix. They make them in such a way that you either can't fix them or fixing is more expensive than buying another one."
-> it has even a name :-( - planned obsolescence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

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mrs. chinaski
@ blackpearl: "I'm though pissed beyond god that most of the electronics nowadays are impossible to fix. They make them in such a way that you either can't fix them or fixing is more expensive than buying another one."
-> it has even a name :-( - planned obsolescence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Thankfully, with the Internet being what it is, I'm in the process of fixing my 6-year old MacBook because I can't afford to buy a new one and given that the newest ones don't come with some basic things like a CD/DVD drive, I'm not inclined to buy brand-new and then have to pay more to have the drive installed. My screen went kaput a year ago, so I've been using a TV as an external display, but I've figured out how to fix the screen that will cost me $60 instead of taking it to Apple and spending $200+ out of pocket (when really, they should do it for free because this will be the second time this screen has to be replaced). And another $60 will be spent to up the memory so it'll run faster (because the MacBook can run 16GB of memory, but Apple installs it with 2GB and expects you to shell out a few hundred to upgrade the RAM).

------------------------------------------------------------
"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

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Techie
I have a suspicion there are going some really large ghettos, with a bunch of really broke and starving people living there. Most countries already have such ghettos. I see them getting bigger as jobs are being eliminated, resources getting more more expensive due to overuse and shortage, living spaces being more crowded due to people migrating out of worse areas and trying to find something better.

Sounds like parts of Florida.

Large communities of retired people (which is NOT good for the economy at all) living on a highly restricted budget etc.

and we continue to import people who will never ever be a producing anything for society, except for welfare turds.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

Totally agree with Mrs. Chinaski and StudioFiftyFour, especially this: "The idea that medical advances are going to allow us to live to 100-120 years of age... hmm... let's think about this for a moment. You're going to have a ruling class of those who own the machines, a small middle class who does what labor is left to do, for the machines, and a very large subsistence/working/welfare class.

"Do you really think that the ruling class is going to advocate for all kinds of 'free' healthcare for this welfare class, so that they can live to be 120 years old? They will be for lack of a better phrase, 'useless eaters.' "

An investment advisor whom I otherwise greatly respect, Ric Edelman, has said repeatedly that longer lifespans are right around the corner, and others claim that the first person to see age 150 is already alive. This optimism is grossly unwarranted, at least for the rank and file like us here. Startling figures actually show a decline in longevity over the last 30–40 years for the lowest quintile (lowest 20%) in income in the US. These are government figures; dig around online and you'll find them. I know too many people who have died in just the last few years in their 60s and early 70s, including my parents, despite good medical care, and obviously despite the common claim that even today's older people will likely see their 80s. It is known that elders hit a wall at about age 85 after which they decline rather quickly—no matter how healthy and active they were into their early 80s. The wall still seems insurmountable.

If such longer lifespans become possible, like S54 I think they will be costly, require lifelong medical intervention starting in youth to achieve, and will not be subsidized by government nor covered by insurance. But a larger agenda will be at work should that come to pass.

For the elites and rich to live to 120+, lifestyle restrictions and rationing of necessities will be placed on the rest of us: that is, those of us who won't get the medical help to live that long. We're CF here, yeah, but imagine how you'd feel deep down if most people were told they couldn't have children or engage in name-the-activity because resources have to be available for Bill Gates's son to live to 150—and of course we don't want overpopulation, do we? Even most of us here would vehemently disagree with such restrictions, I'll bet. The probability of elites doing this actually makes some of Glenn Beck's dystopian Agenda 21 scenarios plausible, as repugnant as I find much of his conspiracy-mongering.

Also, these longer lifespans for a few will become the bludgeon to eliminate Social Security for everyone else and force them to work longer, even if they aren't actually living longer. If "retirement" age to get benefits is set at age 100 because a few live to 120+, but most people still won't see 80, you realize what will result. If you can find a job, you get to work till you die. And if jobs aren't available and too many would have to rely on welfare to live, welfare simply will not exist as the elites decide it's just too costly.

Yeah, these predictions are ridiculous at best. But at worst they might be setting the stage for something sinister down the road.