"We spend more time and money on parenting than ever — but we are getting worse"

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ondinette
I am from generation X , and I feel royally screwed by the system, so it's not just young people. Growing up I was told the American dream would be mine if I got good grades, stayed out of trouble, and went to college. I did all that, but when it was time for the rest of the world to deliver suddenly the rules were different and nothing I had done was good enough. I picked a "sensible" major and have never been the partying type,but it didn't matter. I still had tons of trouble getting and staying employed. I don't think intergenerational warfare will solve anything, but more than one generation has been lied to about the future. Or am I unusual? Have other gen-xers had the same problem?

If you are unusual, then allow me to join the club. Aside from choosing a sensible major (I went for art, which is about as practical as philosophy), your story sounds just like mine to a T. I had it shoved down my throat my whole life that school was the most important thing ever, and that I always needed to stay out of trouble and get good grades so I could go to college, graduate and get a six-figure gravy job. I never partied, drank, did drugs, smoked, never got knocked up and I got decent grades (certainly not a 4.0 GPA, but usually never got below a and even was indicted into the NTHS and got some scholarships for grad school.

I've been officially out of school for about three years now and I've only had two real jobs my whole life, both of which were awful (one paid below minimum wage, one forced me to do things I was unqualified to do) and both of which I got fired from within two months of employment. My education that I was told to pay so much attention to has gotten me a lot of jack shit. Meanwhile, I've been repaying my student loans for three years and have watched my balance go up rather than down in spite of paying around $500 per month. So yes, I do feel quite lied to because I was hoping to have some advantage over my peers with a college education, and while I knew I wouldn't be making $100K+ per year, I was hoping that I could someday expect to work at a job that simply earned me enough to afford to live on my own.

The reality is I'll probably be lucky if I can stock shelves at Wal-Mart. All I ever heard was how I need to study hard and it would all pay off later. Yeah, I'm still waitin' on that payoff. At this point, I think the only way I'll be able to live on my own is if I go on welfare. Baby boomers are usually all too ready to tell people my age that we're all just lazy and don't know the value of hard work. Welp, the thing is hard work now doesn't go nearly as far as it did when baby boomers were in their 20s and 30s. You can work 2-3 jobs these days and still have to pick and choose what bills you're going to pay each month.

Plus, I know younger people may harbor some resentment toward older people for staying at their jobs beyond retirement age. Some of these people will work up until the day they die because they simply like their jobs or don't like sitting around idly, but others can't afford to retire and have to keep on working. I have heard that some millennials feel that baby boomers are being selfish for not getting out of the work force so that the younger generation can start taking over those jobs. So while I think it's kind of ridiculous to have such a crummy opinion of the older generation, I can understand where it comes from. Our parents told us all kinds of bullshit and how we'd make it in the world, reality hit us like a ton of bricks and then they tell us it's our own faults for listening to them.

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twocents

At one point something really started shoving on my legs; I look down and the crotch turd is trying to shove past me and the goods belt. I just wouldn't move but the fucker wouldn't quit shoving so I started saying 'no'. Said it several times. Sow starts mooing 'some people are just rude', fucker looks up and says 'why?'.

Yes, some people are rude, namely the moo. When you want to walk through and someone is in your way, you say "Excuse me" instead of trying to push past them. This is especially the case when you're trying to go against an established pattern, for instance if I want to leave a store without buying anything. Even when the person who is blocking the way is being a jerk about it (i.e., standing in the middle of the path yakking), I still say something instead of just pushing them aside.

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ondinette
I am from generation X , and I feel royally screwed by the system, so it's not just young people. Growing up I was told the American dream would be mine if I got good grades, stayed out of trouble, and went to college. I did all that, but when it was time for the rest of the world to deliver suddenly the rules were different and nothing I had done was good enough. I picked a "sensible" major and have never been the partying type,but it didn't matter. I still had tons of trouble getting and staying employed. I don't think intergenerational warfare will solve anything, but more than one generation has been lied to about the future. Or am I unusual? Have other gen-xers had the same problem?

I do reasonably well, in that I have work that I find intellectually stimulating and I can pay my bills. I've spent about a year unemployed since finishing my degree, and that was because I was trying to break into a new career. I do worry about the future though, because my field is notoriously ageist and I see people 10-15 years older than me going through long stretches of unemployment not because they lack the skills, but because industries would rather hire people under 30. I sometimes think that the ridiculous salaries in IT (not that I've ever been in that group) are because you have less than 20 years to earn for a lifetime, similar to a professional sports player.

I see lots of people that the system hasn't worked for and it's one reason I've never been much interested in buying a house. I want the flexibility and freedom of being able to move for work, because that and no children are my two biggest assets when it comes to staying employed, more than any of my skills.

There is a fairytale book out there.
I know at least two fairytales out of that book.
The fairytale No1: The hard work now will pay off later.
The fairytale No2: Get married and have a bay-bee - it's all worth it!

Add me to the unicorn group. I worked hard and earned the equivalent of a 3.8 GPA in high school (my school district decided decades ago that our grading scale needed to be on hard mode; in the rest of the country, an 80% is a mid-B. That's a low C, bordering on a D where I'm from) and had my choice of colleges. I went to college, earned my degree in Psychology, and have been underemployed for nearly a decade now. I went to culinary school a couple of years ago in desperation because I had no other options other than retail/customer service. And you can get decent jobs with a bachelor's in psychology, so it's frustrating that I can't even get an interview.

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

Honestly, I feel so lucky about not having gone to college. I wanted to, and I had a goal in mind, and schools picked out. But, I was just too mentally ill (seems to be genetic.)
Now, I think, wow, maybe I dodged a bullet... In my state, I might be financially drowning with no way out. (That, and... Well, I won't flatter myself. I was probably too dumb for college. Good on the scholarships.) I feel a bit like a failure, and people keep asking me what the hell I've been doing with my life, and I just tell them, dealing with everything, and not killing myself. If no one wants to hire someone perfectly healthy, hard working, and qualified at the best of times, WHY would someone hire me?

I'm a bit odd in that I had a "baby boomer" father, but I'm the youngest of several children, and am the only one considered a "millenial". The others are "Gen X." My parents were near or on 40 when they had me. (When I was older, people often thought my dad was my grandpa.) They both worked very hard at everything, but I was always the odd one out.
I really don't like generational stereotypes, because just because you were born at a certain time doesn't mean you're going to have X, Y, or Z qualities, but, when I compare my life to my dad's, I'm very far behind. I matured slower, I don't work as hard, I don't know as much, and I'm nowhere near as healthy. At least I noticed, and I'm trying to catch up. But... Damn. Things change so much that you don't get to live in the world that you were prepared for as a kid. I've heard it's getting worse.

We all live in America ~

- Rammstein

There's a Beverly Hills outside of Cairo now -

http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/features/cairos-rich-take-refuge-in-new-enclaves_14074

All of it is based off of consumption.

They think it's bottom up; No, it's top down. $ people will exploit anyone willing to fall for cheap crap.

Advertising trains people to gallop to the trough.

Goes for any place, any breeder.

Also -

I live in an expensive (US) urban area. I can't complain because I chose this.

But - you have to be making fairly good money - just to survive here. I do make fairly decent money, over half goes to tax. Straight off.

And I can barely survive here. And then there's the property tax - which is 10K.

I live in a junky house, I just put the heat down because I cannot afford high bills.

It's stupid expensive here - And EVERYTHING is taxed. They're big on the 'Sin Taxes' here.
Pack of cigs? $13. Which is why I quit smoking.

The Internet is taxed here - right here what I have typed? TAXED. There are in fact MULTIPLE phone and net taxes here. From "Infrastructure Improvements" (WHERE'S THE FIBER OPTIC ALREADY? THAT YOU ADVERTISE ON TV!?) - to 'local taxes', specific municipal taxes - Hello - ATT - where's the Fiber Optic you promised? And this is *supposedly* a private co. - but they tax you on all of this anyway. ? The public infrastructure? Is how they float that, I guess -

It's just ridiculous. Stupefying.

And I would like to get out - but I don't know where to go and I'm kind of like now - 'trapped on a treadmill' so to say. I have to go to work to pay for the house close to work so I can go to work ~

If nothing else - I THANK GOD MYSELF! that I DON'T have kids!

I *can* do other things or - reconfigurate this all, somehow ~

No kids, no Spouse - so at least I don't have *those issues* - while I'm simply trying to survive here ~

I've even seriously thought of moving to 'The North Woods' and 'living off the land'. I can hunt bird and do know some gardening.

Really burnt out on it all / may be having a 'mid life crisis'.

Or, I'm going to go live in the woods and become a hermit. This plan is looking better every day ~

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Zzelda
Or, I'm going to go live in the woods and become a hermit. This plan is looking better every day

Not exactly living in the woods, but definitely creating a life of hermitude: RVSue

Maybe I notice it because these lifestyles interest me, but more people are bailing from the suburban, cookie cutter house life (here in the US). They buy a portable building and convert it to a small house (you typically can't go larger than 16x40) or they build very small houses. They are going off grid and creating a very different, less materialistic lifestyle. The more extreme ones are "preppers." They are the pests of the small house forums because their lives revolve around paranoia, but they do have good ideas for simplifying one's lifestyle.

And the older folks (some not even "older," just in their 40s) are becoming more itinerant, buying an older RV or travel trailer and making a living as work campers, moving from one campground hosting job to another, doing stints at the Amazon warehouses during the Christmas rush ... just living under the radar.

I believe much of this is due to abandoning "the American Dream." It has become more and more of a crock to people; many are setting their feet on an alternative path of living.

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StudioFiftyFour

Trump's meteoric rise is simply a result of people being completely disgusted, in general, with what both parties have to offer.

That may be the reason for some of his popularity, but I think the majority of his supporters are just dolts.

I feel like I'm back in the 70s, reading some of this stuff.

Going to college at that time, I sat next to men in their 40s who were being "retrained" for "new careers" because their factory, steel or car building jobs had been shipped overseas. Many women of the same age because their kids were grown and the 1950s hausfrau lifestyle no longer appealed to them or their husbands left them (I met a lot of divorced women, back then. they were considered an odd and to-be-pitied group.)

Some of them had to get their GEDs first, because they quit school after the 10th or 11th grade and went to work, often because they were facing fatherhood or their parents told them that they didn't need a full education, the Ford plant was hiring and paid good money. My father had a 9th grade education and was rarely out of work. When he was, it was usually because the Midwest union he belonged to had called a strike.

Most of the older men in my family (born in the 30s) were told the same thing, in sort of a different vein: "learn a trade, work hard, and you'll make enough to support your family." Which was true, back then. Then the Great Recession of the 70s hit, all those jobs moved overseas, and the men were told "we (or the gov't) will pay for you to be retrained for 'new careers'." Many of them; certainly a lot of their children; went into the IT field. It was the savior of my generation's job goals until the 90s, when it all started going to India.

I would say "hunker down, something else will come along," like the ex-factory people were told, back in the 70s and 80s, and we new kids were told when we left college, but I get a sense that this time there is no "something better" developing that will provide jobs for the younger people. The future just feels very grim.

My Better Half recently lost his job after almost 18 years with his company. He's an engineer but that's no guarantee when the employer wants to "cut corners." He's in his mid-fifties, not ready for retirement yet, and in his profession the jobs are scattered around the country. He has a couple of interested parties, but it looks like we'll be moving soon regardless. Silly us, we thought we would be staying in this town at least till retirement. But you just can't count on that anymore. Good Lord, my parents were in the same city from1946 till they died. Good luck with that nowadays.

As for me, I have a B.A. in music and psychology. Thanks to several health issues, I've never earned much. Playing by the rules doesn't often pay. Good thing we didn't add kyds to the mix or we'd be worrying about what kind of school district is in our next town, kyds leaving their friends here, etc. It's hard enough to deal with these changes!

Btw Zzelda, the Northwoods can be beautiful, but it's very provincial. Childfree women are a rarity.

I am also *seriously* considering Mexico.

Mention because others might want to give it a look too.

I do speak Spanish, so that's a plus for me. It's not a hard language to learn though. I'm rusty, I figure I could pick it back up.

Something I saw recently too - there's actually *more people* going back to MX than are trying to get into the US.

Glut of MX immigrants to the US? No, that's wrong. The latest influx are from farther South and are mostly Guatemalans.

Lots of MX people are going back to Mexico, they can't take it. These are smart people - they see through the BULL SHIT.

A better place? American Dream? Well it speaks volumes to me that people are going back to Mexico as well as Americans (and others) moving there too.

I'm looking at Mexico too ~

There is an industry that provides jobs - geriatric care.
But those jobs are hard and badly paid with no opportunity of career development;
no comparison with IT sector whatsover.
I agree, the future feels grim.

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mrs. chinaski
There is an industry that provides jobs - geriatric care.
But those jobs are hard and badly paid with no opportunity of career development;
no comparison with IT sector whatsover.
I agree, the future feels grim.

LOL, so the "my kids will be wiping your asses" declaration is coming to fruition?

It seems that I have been seeing more signs stuck in the ground: "CNAs wanted;" our local newsies have bold print ads "Earn Money as a CNA."

The primary care doctor Dh and I go to is seeing a transition in her patient database - fewer young people; more over the age of 65. Having built up a detailed medical file on both of us, we're staying with her. It is actually a reason we are staying in the area, having given thought to relocate. Awful to think about - we don't want to move because we know our way around the hospitals and are comfortable with our doctors, but that seems to be part of the aging thing.

And, yeah, I was just looking at CNA salaries in our state. Depending on the level of care CNAs are hired to give, you'll be lucky to top out at $40k. That's for Certified Veteran Nursing Assistant. The rest of the salary ranges are 17-28k.

I am completely allergic to statements like
"my kids will be wiping your asses"
"my kids will pay your pension". They infuriate me.

"my kids will be wiping your asses" - if it comes that far,
big IF, they will do it as a JOB to earn their LIVING.
So fuck you, breeders!

"my kids will pay your pension": Those who paid in are
entitled to get a payout. If you don't like it, change
the SS system.

@ Dorisan: "we don't want to move because we know our way around the hospitals
and are comfortable with our doctors, but that seems to be part of the aging thing."
-> I don't think that this has something to do with age. It's hard to find a good doctor.
There are plenty of quacks who would perform unnecessary procedures to make $$$.

I always loved the line "My kids will be wiping your ass one day." Orly? So that's all the hope you have for your child? That they'll grow up to work in a nursing home? Not that there's anything wrong with doing that because, hey, it's work, but I think most of today's kids are far too awtarded to wipe their own asses, let alone someone else's.

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Cambion
I always loved the line "My kids will be wiping your ass one day." Orly? So that's all the hope you have for your child? That they'll grow up to work in a nursing home? Not that there's anything wrong with doing that because, hey, it's work, but I think most of today's kids are far too awtarded to wipe their own asses, let alone someone else's.

When was the last time a moo/duh said My kids will be in middle management one day or My kids will own moderately successful businesses one day?

Nooo, they are either making damn near minimum wage wiping asses of the collective elderly or future Nobel laureates! Aim for the middle and hope for the best duhs and moos!

"My kids will be wiping your ass one day." ...
"My My My, you have such low expectations for your sproggs."

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

I knew it. The 70s sucked in many ways, but the parenting was better.
Parents chased kids out of the house to get them out of their hair, and they were parents, not their kids buddies.
As my folks said "I'm not your friend, I am your parent."

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Someday we'll look back on this moment and plow into a parked car.

Evan Davis

My parents did that throughout the '80s and '90s as my sister and I were growing up. My mother frequently said, "I'm your parent, not your friend." They managed to balance authoritative parenting with permissiveness, so while we were kept in line and expected to exhibit proper behavior in public, they also gave us a lot of chances to be independent, didn't restrict what we watched/read, and spoiled us with cable TV in our rooms and video game consoles (but those were taken away if we misbehaved and that did happen a few times).

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

In the generational thing, I have the millennial perspective, although this perspective is not going to be a decent sampling and you'll find out why.

I have almost no debt, a bomb ass credit score (upper 700's) and I have a good job with good pay and advancement opportunities. I have an education that I worked my ass off for a full ride scholarship to pay for. I also live with my SO in a small apartment where we both contribute equally to rent and we pretty much bathe in cash and wine. I am looking into stocks and setting up a savings account for retirement as well as handing my SO extra money to help pay off the rest of her debt too so that we can start LIVING. My situation is a happy little anomaly. Why?

I am 24 years old.

Most people of my generation are at home with mom and dad and are working dead end jobs that can't even afford a living wage. It's sad honestly. I couldn't even imagine having to parent a free ranger or otherwise in this economy. I really couldn't.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So.. We know that food and water are running out, with overpopulation and all... Yet people keep on poppin' out those babies! I guess they want to have their baby and eat it too...

My top reason is that parenting gives you a free license to be selfish based purely on the fact that you're being selfish for an emanation of your own self. The illusion that what you do to benefit your children benefits them solely is a fallacy. Every parent benefits from the benefits that their children receive. Henceforth, it gives one a license to perpetuate a dog-eat-dog mentality that I perceive to be amoral. Parents say that their children are their greatest loves, what they forget to add is that they are their ONLY loves and only because their children are a reflection of themselves. I prefer to be able to love multiple people and have lasting relationships of many types and possess the essential core value of empathy for all than to restrict myself to an echo chamber of ego-masturbation and self-serving chicanery.

In short: Not parenting makes you a better person.