For CF ladies - marriage advice needed

My husband somehow changed.
Over the course of time, he morphed from a nice man into a passive-aggressive MRA.
There are basically three factors that play a role in this issue.

1st factor: There are wombmen at his office who keep telling him that they wish to be me.
They say, I lead comfortable life (I am at home) and I should be grateful (!) to have
such a wonderful man like him who takes care of me.
-> WTF? I don’t think that the word “grateful” applies here. This is a marriage, not a fucking charity!
I would like to know what are these cunts thinking and what they are trying to achieve when they interfere in my business.

2nd factor: There are apparently plenty of MRA’s at the office as well. They are mostly divorced Duhs or married for a second time.
One of the Duhs said that his wife didn’t want to have any bay-bee. He divorced her for this reason and found another woman.
His ex-wife came to him and begged him to take her back that she changed her mind about the bay-bee but his new gf was already inpig.
Btw. I don’t buy this. This sounds like Og’s wet dream to me.
An another Duh is divorced, in his 50ies. He keeps dating young women in their 20ies. He invites them everywhere, buys them stuff. IMO he is basically sugar daddy but he doesn’t see it that way. He is very self-confident and says that there is no shortage of young women who wouldn’t want someone like him – mature man with established career.

3rd factor: DH makes frequent business trips to an East European country. He stays at a hotel.
As there is poverty and unemployment, hotel bars are full of young women looking for foreigners to get out of there.

This combination – balls-rubbing wombmen + MRA’s + young girls – is toxic.
As a result of this, DH thinks he is Gawd’s gift to women.

He keeps telling me that I am ungrateful
and that I don’t appreciate the good life I have with him.
According to him, there are many other women (much younger than me!) who would be so happy if they were in my place.

We don’t have any open marriage.
As far as I know there is no third person in this marriage.

This all is some passive-aggressive bullshit.
I don't get it.

The questions:
How to put a MRA with over-inflated ego in his place?
What is it with these old men and their obsession with young women?

I have not dealt with this situation. If a partner is acting as if they do not appreciate you and deserve better, you can confront them with how their actions make you feel. When a partner has already put those thoughts into words I am not sure it is possible to change their attitude. Relationships only work when both people appreciate what they have.

You should pray to the Lord for guidance on how to better serve the patriarch of the household.

(Just kidding. )

It sounds like he does not appreciate you, the MRAs at his work are just additional background noise. Your relationship is none of their business.

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"[GFG's pregnancy is] kind of like at the stables where that one dumb, ugly-ass mare broke out of her corral one day and got herself screwed by the equally fugly colt that was due to be gelded the same afternoon."- Shiny

This hasn't happened to me, either, but I agree that you should ask him very directly just why he feels you're ungrateful and why he's acting this way. Be clear that he's being passive-aggressive and disrespectful, and that he's hurting you. If he doesn't care that he's hurting you, then I would say counseling or end the relationship. If he's all right with mistreating you, then you need someone better.

Thank you.

We got to talk this weekend.
I asked him why does he think that I am "ungrateful". He didn't give me any answer,
no reaction at all.
I previously thought that he wants to get a divorce (-> "other younger women" blah blah blah)
so I asked about that too. He definitely doesn't want to end this marriage.

He also keeps telling me that I do not love him anymore
The same shit - when I ask why, no answer.

I have an acquaintance who is separated from DH after 20+ y of marriage.
Her DH works for MNC, he is a specialist, well known in his field.
She described to me how he changed over the years.
It was nice guy -> MRA -> dictator / tyrant.
She told me how he started with passive-aggressive bullshit like
"how she should be grateful that he is providing for her and working
his ass off" blah blah blah.
Over the years, he became more and more nasty; power plays and such.
She thinks that she made a huge mistake and should have started
to solve those issues as they occured. Not just sit, wait and hope it will
get better.
I know what she went through in her marriage and I am 100%
sure that I don't want to go "there".

I actually don't think that I will get "there" because her DH is not like my DH.
But I can also be wrong.

I do not feel hurt, I am annoyed. It doesn't make any sense, it's all
completely unnecessary.

You could try asking him why he doesn't feel appreciated and what would make him feel appreciated. And of course articulate the same from your perspective. But if he won't talk, there isn't much that can be done.

I've been through something similar, although the personal details were different. I'm curious how long you've been married.

Who knows what has happened to your DH--what he is saying isn't particularly MRA-ish; it sounds like he's a garden-variety asshole who has lost respect for your marriage and you. In my experience, once a marriage reaches that point, it's very difficult to climb back up that hill because the person who is doing that is telling himself the problem isn't his attitude, it's you.

I think it's a huge red flag that he is pointing out that you should be "grateful" to have a big stud like him and I wouldn't be so sure he doesn't have something else on the side. (The young girls in foreign countries? He needs to be wearing a rubber when he has sex with you.)

My ex started bringing up bullshit like this prior to our marriage imploding because he did have someone on the side, a WannaBreed who was incidentally also married. He met her at work. Having someone on the side made him bold. He started saying things like, "you're not willing to have my bay-bee." I was like, "no shit, Sherlock, I'm not having anyone's baybee." (I had a tubal ligation prior to marriage.) The fact that your DH said he doesn't want to be divorced doesn't mean a lot....my ex was genuinely surprised after I ended our marriage, told me that I "really wanted to be divorced." Ya think?
I wasn't going to hang around and take it and I am glad I had the means to leave.

You can't "make" someone else shape up--all you can do is take care of yourself. This applies today for me, and although I consider myself happily married, it will only remain that way as long as DH continues to treat me well and with respect, as I do with him. I also have the means to support myself and I have the ability to leave. Call me unromantic, but it's human nature to get too comfortable with someone who doesn't have options. I don't intend to be in that position.

My assvice to you is that you do what Yurble said and ask him exactly what he wants out of your marriage and if he is dissatisfied with your arrangement. All this other bullshit he is telling you are just excuses. There are all kinds of marriages out there, happy and unhappy and it doesn't matter one bit what someone else lives with--all that matters is if you two can live with each other respectfully.

I would also maintain your dignity. There was a three month period during my marriage to my ex where he kept denying he had someone else, yet kept sniping at me for things that were part of my personality and clear at the onset of our relationship. Although I didn't do too badly, I was naturally upset when I thought everything was okay (because he was PA, wishy-washy and couldn't be direct) and it stinks when you feel as if you have to audition for a role you already have. Don't waste your energy.

Might want to look into a part time job, anything so you can start building a nest egg. That you are not stuck with putting up with bad behavior. Also, make sure he's not tampering with the BC and you are having safe sex, although having sex with someone like him sounds really unattractive at this point.

ETA: Focusing the behavior back on you is a classic sign of someone who wants to deflect. Saying you "don't love him anymore" isn't the point. You do, and are you the one telling him he needs to be "grateful" because he has you? No. He's the one who is acting dissatisfied, so he needs to explain why.

Double dipping, but:

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Over the years, he became more and more nasty; power plays and such.
She thinks that she made a huge mistake and should have started
to solve those issues as they occured. Not just sit, wait and hope it will
get better.

This presumes she could control his behavior. Any time you have another party in a relationship, they make their own choices. Sometimes the only choice is to leave because the person isn't going to change; sometimes you choose to stay because their quirks and issues are tolerable and you get other good stuff for staying. It all comes down to what you can live with.

This is also why it's important to marry someone who is ready to navigate a long term relationship. I think being open and non-defensive are important qualities, but let's face it: some men (and women) want to live in a dictatorship, not a true partnership, where it's presumed that both parties do not have equal status to begin with. Your friend's husband (and yours, sadly) may be an Og who sees nothing wrong with dominating the household.

"Sometimes the only choice is to leave because the person isn't going to change;
sometimes you choose to stay because their quirks and issues are tolerable
and you get other good stuff for staying. It all comes down to what you can live with."

-> very well said.

I have been married for over 8 y.

I am a sort of submissive person, I don't mind when partner is dominant.
However, submissive doesn't mean doormat.

"ETA: Focusing the behavior back on you is a classic sign of someone who wants to deflect.
Saying you "don't love him anymore" isn't the point. You do, and are you the one telling him
he needs to be "grateful" because he has you? No."
Actually, I am not that innocent...As he started telling me how I should be grateful that I have him,
I told him he should be grateful that he has me as a wife. I did it on purpose - so that he sees
how absurd and stupid it sounds. It didn't work. He didn't get that.

It's difficult to talk to him. He is as moody as an inpig cow, change in behaviour.
When he doesn't want to talk, he blocks everything.
I ask the right questions but he doesn't give me any answers.

My marriage was great for 6y. We were on the same page, had the same
goals etc. It was a very harmonious relationship.
Then we had a major crisis due to "bay-bee". The crisis got resolved by me
- it was so bad that I told him I want out. As he heard the D-word, he sorted himself out.
Now he is "losing" it again.

I thought it's possible that he secretly hates me for not giving him a bay-bee and that's why he
wants to "punish" me with shitty behaviour (???)
I asked him about that (indirectly) but he said no bay-bee, no problem.

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mrs. chinaski

My marriage was great for 6y. We were on the same page, had the same
goals etc. It was a very harmonious relationship.
Then we had a major crisis due to "bay-bee". The crisis got resolved by me
- it was so bad that I told him I want out. As he heard the D-word, he sorted himself out.
Now he is "losing" it again.

I thought it's possible that he secretly hates me for not giving him a bay-bee and that's why he
wants to "punish" me with shitty behaviour (???)
I asked him about that (indirectly) but he said no bay-bee, no problem.

Yeah, right. He's full of shit. You should not have to "guess" what his problem is and his withholding of that information is a form of emotional abuse. You may never get your answers.

therapy. if he won't go you should go on your own.

ultimately i think you shouldn't stay with someone who punishes you. that's a bunch of bullshit.

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Actually, I am not that innocent...As he started telling me how I should be grateful that I have him,
I told him he should be grateful that he has me as a wife. I did it on purpose - so that he sees
how absurd and stupid it sounds. It didn't work. He didn't get that

.

I'm not saying what you said was wrong. It's a normal response from someone who is valued in a relationship, "hey aren't you lucky to have me?" What's concerning is that by not "getting it" he may not feel that way any longer.

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I am a sort of submissive person, I don't mind when partner is dominant.
However, submissive doesn't mean doormat.

Well that's how you could describe most relationships, right? I am a Type A, but I'm go-along-get-along at home because I don't want drama and I can be that way AS LONG AS MY BASIC NEEDS ARE MET. A mature person doesn't want everything his or her way, but as long as the the basics are covered, they are fine. For example, my DH watches a lot of TV, which I cannot stand. We have arranged our house to have separate areas so I can be in my own place without TV. If we lived in a smaller house or I weren't self-aware enough to realize my needs and speak out for them, or if I were a high-maintenance, major clinger who couldn't stand that her husband wasn't focusing on her, this wouldn't work. Our basic needs line up and this is a relatively small thing. Having kids is a big thing.

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Then we had a major crisis due to "bay-bee". The crisis got resolved by me
- it was so bad that I told him I want out. As he heard the D-word, he sorted himself out.
Now he is "losing" it again.

Sounds as if it was only postponed, not resolved. There is no "resolving" if your DH wants a kid and you do not. He probably shut up because your life wasn't that bad to him and he could Keep the Pussy Rolling.

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I thought it's possible that he secretly hates me for not giving him a bay-bee and that's why he
wants to "punish" me with shitty behaviour (???)

.

There are people who feel this way because they are weak. They can't say, hey, we have different needs and let's break up cleanly. So they either act like an asshole until you give in, or behave obnoxiously so that you will leave or find someone else. Or do all three. There are a lot of relationships out there where the dominant person just acts like an asshole and calls the shots because the weaker person will always give in. Exhibit A: my in-laws.

You need to read the Epic threads page. I'm sorry you are going through this.

If you don't want to knuckle under and breed, you need a Plan B, stat.

One of my favorite quotes is: People don't change; they just stop pretending. While I personally believe strong people can change, IF THEY ARE WILLING TO ADMIT THEIR BEHAVIOR IS PART OF THE PROBLEM, I do believe many weak people "pretend" so they can get into a relationship, then they want to sort things out later. It's possible he always thought you'd breed.

@mrs. chinaski
I'm sorry, but if he isn't going to contribute to the conversation and give you answers to your questions, than you have a problem. The two of you need to talk this out and see if you can get back on the same page. If not, there are other options to consider; including a D.

It sounds like he may be unhappy with something or with the relationship in general and wants something else. You shouldn't have to find out by playing 20 questions with him. Communication is a vital part of any relationship and if suddenly he goes silent, than that's a big red flag.

Start squirreling money away so that you have an exit plan if you need it. This can now go either one of two ways:
1.) The two of you talk and he actually voices how he is feeling and is truthful with you. The two of you can work on it and see if you can make it work.

2.) This escalates, he becomes abusive in other ways. You also find out that there is someone else.Good thing you have that nest egg, this would be a situation you would have to get out of.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They are having children for selfish and narcissistic reasons, or are simply irresponsible. Funny... Those are the terms often used to describe the CF

~Live, Laugh, Love~

I feel that he is not honest with me. Infidelity would be my guess no.2. Guess no.1 is bay-bee.

"There is no "resolving" if your DH wants a kid and you do not."

I don't get it. Before we got married, I told him I don't want to have any children. He told me that children don't interest him, he wants to
focus on his career. As we had the crisis, I told him that I don't want to have any bay-bee, this is not going to change and if he wants one, we are just wasting each other's time. I said that either he will come to terms with no bay-bee or we get a divorce. This is all clear and you cannot interpret it in a different manner. There is no space for "maybe later". I was royally pissed of course because I said very clearly that I don't want to have children before the wedding so bay-bee drama after 7 y of marriage is just pointless.

There are two possibilities - it's either some kind of midlife crisis or he didn't give up his bay-bee wish.
If it's Option 1, I am willing to wait till the menopause is over.
If it's Option 2, then he is a fucking %&/(§"&.

Btw. it's interesting that his bay-bee wish appeared when his career didn't work out according to his expectations.
His bay-bee wish never felt real to me. It was like - when I didn't achieve this, I will have a bay-bee instead.

If it is Option 2, then it means that he stayed with me because
- he thought I will change my mind (because all wombmen want baybeez, right?)
- he doesn't have anyone else lined up for the "job".
- he knows me. He is scared of what comes next.
I am sure that he can find some young woman in Eastern Europe.
But he doesn't know how this person will turn out - indeterminable risk.

"You should not have to "guess" what his problem is and his withholding of that information is a form of emotional abuse.
You may never get your answers."

Shit, this cannot happen. I need answers, I have to find out how to get them once for all. I cannot live like this with a risk that "bay-bee" will appear again, again and again. This has to stop.

What might be going on:

http://psychology.about.com/od/psychosocialtheories/fl/Psychosocial-Stages-Summary-Chart.htm

_______________________________________________
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

So how long ago did the baybee issue surface?

"Start squirreling money away so that you have an exit plan if you need it."


excellent advice. if you are physically able to work you may want to start brushing up your resume. if he refuses to deal with whatever problems he's having then you need to get out. life is too short to waste in a relationship where you aren't valued.

Mrs. Chinaski, it sounds as if women in his workplace are trying to entice him into an affair. Don't underestimate how some women (and men) can be attracted to a married person. My married brother has recounted creepy stories of women coming on to him after seeing his wedding ring—and no, he wasn't interested or flirting. It works the other way too, as some men will pursue married women.

And talking about the women at his work, why is he discussing you and his home situation with them in the first place? It's none of their business. Another red flag. I'm a guy, and if I were married, I couldn't imagine talking a lot about my spouse and home issues with others at work. Most colleagues, men or women, simply don't talk about this stuff to others because doing so is not professional. In some workplaces, gabbing about your personal life can get you in trouble with management.

Finally, this sounds like a relatively recent change in your husband. Thom_C can probably shed more light on this, but maybe non-psychological medical issues are involved. I know how my personality changed last year when I was really ill for much of the year (close call with developing sepsis), and it wasn't for the better. It took about four months before I felt anything like my old, easygoing self again.

Hope this helps.

I know very little about your husband but I have serious issues with the way he is communicating with you as it isn't respectful. If he really feels unappreciated than a respectful way to share this with you would be to say he feels this way to you. Him telling you how you should feel is controlling.

And there will always be a woman who is younger, or more attractive, or more (fill in the blank) than you are. And there will always be a younger, more attractive, or more (fill in the blank) man than your husband. These are just facts of life which applies to anyone so why is he bringing this up to you other than to make you feel bad?

I agree with all of the great advice given here. Just want to add if you do everything you possibly can to try to save the marriage within reason and within your comfort level (talking with him about it, potentially counseling, etc.) than please avoid any guilt if it doesn't work out. You are only one part of the marriage and if he is determined to not make things work then there may be nothing you can do. I learned this from personal experience.

My ex was repeatedly nasty to me and I responded in kindness and only 'put him in his place' once or twice during the eighteen month period before I left. If I wouldn't have been so determined to make a marriage work (despite no effort on his part) than I would have left much sooner.

"So how long ago did the baybee issue surface?"

It started when his career deteriorated - 2 years ago.
He started with - I should make "something" out of myself,
I should do something "meaningful" with my life
The usual breederific bullshit.
His parunts were much worse than him.
I am genuinely surprised that they came to terms with "no baybee policy".
I didn't think this could be possible.

@ finances: I looked into it during the crisis no1.
In case of D, I will get 50% of assets made in marriage,
a part of his pension + it looks like I could get permanent
alimony. Allegedly, it depends on court but when you can
prove that you gave up your career to keep the marriage
(trailing spouse) it's a real possibility.
But I would have to discuss this with a lawyer of course.

I think it's also in DH's interest to solve the situation
because the longer I stay, the more I get.

@ thom_c: very good link!

@ kman: I am with you on this one.
I don't understand why he discusses everything with them.
I don't agree with it and told him so several times.

MRA's, young girls, wombmen... are just background factors.
The main problem has to be him.
A strong, stable man wouldn't care.

I think that "there are other younger women..." is either a sign
of insecurity or immaturity.
None of that is attractive.

Thank you all for great advice and understanding.

I am not saying that I am some Kind of victim. I am not.
It's bed-made-lie.

However, I have a feeling I am lying in a bed I haven't ordered.

@mrs.chinaski: I personally have had more than one relationship end because my former GFs decided they needed to "start a family".

What you are experiencing is a big elephant in the room and those who are in the room are running into things in order to try to avoid an elephant. The way everything sounds, there is no way that I am able to conclude that your DH is over the kid issue. When people don't get what they want, some just walk away, others try every other stunt and trick in order to get what they desire. To say the least, my exes would not just walk away.

What I see your DH is trying is somewhat resembling of Gaslighting. It is a way to get someone to feel poorly about themselves in order to get that particular someone to comply with demands. He may try to make you feel guilty, he may try to make you feel inferior. Those are actually old tricks and while they were effective in 1940's, those do not work in the age of Internet and social media. There are just way too many people out there who know that bullshit.

Him saying that he can get all the young women is a way for him to make you feel insecure. You and I know that subject "young women" are after $$$ and if they can have $$$ without him being in the picture, they will have $$$.

Let me tell you something else that we all know. While those "ladies" want his $$$, he needs to know that he is not the only male that is offering $$$ to those women. We all know well that there is ALWAYS a higher bidder. Very few men end up "rich" having to game that kind of a "stock market". Majority end up alone and without money because they have spent it all trying to "bid".

In most cases, it is VERY difficult to resolve a baby rabies issue. I have seen other people do it, but it takes a long time. People usually have to separate for like a year so the pain and insults can go away. It is a gamble but it is a way to find out how compatible you guys really are. If after a year you both feel that you can't be without each other, then you guys will find a way to make things work. If he runs out and gets involved with someone else, then he fails, it was then a proof that breeding was above all for him.

Whatever his issue is, he feels safe taking his bullshit out on you. If you depend on him for $$$, he thinks you will cower and take it because he thinks you need him.

Get a job and scare the crap out of him. When you don't depend on him, it will force him to treat you well if he wants you to stick around. Money may not be an issue for you, but your independence should be.

It's not okay for him to treat you like dirt, regardless of his "reasons".

Also, Google "marriage 180".

I googled the marriage 180.

I found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/30b02m/marriage_180_from_marriagebuilderscom_action/

and as another link this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2lpafb/the_12_step_plan_of_dread_book_excerpt_from_my/

That's massacre! Those are some serious mind games...

Please get a job, and start thinking about supporting yourself.
There is a great saying " When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Something funny is going on, on his end, and it's not good.

______________________________________________________
Someday we'll look back on this moment and plow into a parked car.

Evan Davis

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mrs. chinaski
I googled the marriage 180.

I found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/30b02m/marriage_180_from_marriagebuilderscom_action/

and as another link this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2lpafb/the_12_step_plan_of_dread_book_excerpt_from_my/

That's massacre! Those are some serious mind games...

Game playing bullshit !!

If you have to twist yourself into a big pile of rules of shoulds and should nots beyond your basic self and being a decent partner- that relationship is not worth it.

Getting yourself more confident and independent is good whether to chose to stay in this relationship or not.
Find your own natural path.