Ivanka Trump speech about MooHood ***Puke*****

So trump's over privileged daughter has obviously been coached to make him appear "woman friendly."

Mothers are valued in his company!
WHEN women become mothers they are celebrated, not shut out!

(Are we breeding for the Reich now?

She actually said that women are paid less not because they are women because they are mooo-thers and of course the answer is affordable child care.

Nobody represents the child free.

Ugh, why not women are valued, not just mothers?

Well when you have to pander, you pretty much have to pander to the lowest end of the spectrum and make them feel "spayshul".

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"It is better not to look like what you are; it is better to look like a bourgeois woman because then all the doors are open for you and then you can just go and make hell." - Marjane Satrapi

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squigglysquid
Ugh, why not women are valued, not just mothers?

Well, she did mention that women are prominent within the Trump company.

I liked the overall message last night with a couple of exceptions that come to mind, particularly for the childfree...

1. The Donald mentioned the high cost of child care. To that I say, so what? Let the free market decide what daycare costs. Any government "solution" simply means we're going to take tax dollars from those who don't have children, and redistribute those dollars to those that do. That's called theft, socialism, or "social justice" in today's vernacular.

2. The Donald mentioned that so many of our "kids" (I think he used this term) are suffering under the weight of college loan debt. To that I say, well who took out the loan? I didn't take it out. You didn't take it out. So why are you or are going to be expected to subsidize the payment of that loan? Again, he's suggesting theft. I say get the government out of the business of giving these loans altogether. And the banks, too. The colleges have absolutely no incentive to keep tuition reasonable when the loans are guaranteed by Uncle Sam and they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. These colleges are sitting on enormous endowments--let them give the loans. They say that their $50K per year tuition is worth it... so let them put their money where their mouths are. And let the students decide whether or not borrowing that money is worth it. For STEM fields and medicine, I'd say it is. For any kind of leftist degree that ends in "-studies," I don't think that investment will pay off.

I don't get a bailout when I pick a bad stock. Why do the college "kids" think that they should get a bailout when they pick a bad major?

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StudioFiftyFour
[ For any kind of leftist degree that ends in "-studies," I don't think that investment will pay off.

I don't get a bailout when I pick a bad stock. Why do the college "kids" think that they should get a bailout when they pick a bad major?

I majored in Museum studies also known as museology because it was my dream since childhood to work with cultural heritage. I do work in a museum now and i don't consider my studies useless. It's what i always wanted to do and i hope i'll be in the field long from now on.

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blackpearl

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StudioFiftyFour
[ For any kind of leftist degree that ends in "-studies," I don't think that investment will pay off.

I don't get a bailout when I pick a bad stock. Why do the college "kids" think that they should get a bailout when they pick a bad major?

I majored in Museum studies also known as museology because it was my dream since childhood to work with cultural heritage. I do work in a museum now and i don't consider my studies useless. It's what i always wanted to do and i hope i'll be in the field long from now on.

Great. Study whatever you want; it makes no difference to me. The trouble comes when these "kids" (who are at the very least of the age of majority...) think that the rest of us should pay for their education.

Ergo, if you took student loans, are you asking for government assistance (i.e., the taxpayer) to subsidize your dream?

In Finland we don't have tuition fees. Don't worry i'm paying my fair share of taxes back now since i'm in work life. And we have very high taxes.

And i didn't take student loans because i was working while studying so basically paid taxes then also.

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blackpearl
In Finland we don't have tuition fees. Don't worry i'm paying my fair share of taxes back now since i'm in work life. And we have very high taxes.

And i didn't take student loans because i was working while studying so basically paid taxes then also.

Finland is a very different society than the US. Is it a reach to say that Finlamd is an extremely high tax socialist state? Govt takes care of you cradle-to-grave?

This "problem" of tuition and loans I write of is unique to the US.

Yeah it is very high tax state. But even if you don't actually pay for your studies we still have student loans here because students need to live somehow and we do have some fees which are obligatory at the beginning of every school year. And when you get into work life, you kind of pay back what was given to you through taxes.

The downfall of having it like this is that some people take advantage of it. I'll give you an example: let's take women who get into university and then get knocked up right at the beginning of the studies or in the middle. They "freeze" the school year but the university still keeps their place so they can come back whenever they want...some come back after 2-3 years, some might never come back. So basically, taxpayer's money is wasted on these cases. Or on the people who start one degree, never finish, switch to another - never finish, constantly trying to find themselves. These people really piss me off.

If we had tuition fees i don't know how much of the above would happen. I don't refer to extreme tuition fees but something to make people think twice before enrolling in a program and then ditching it because calving or they are just experimenting.

whoomp there it is.

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“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

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blackpearl
Yeah it is very high tax state. But even if you don't actually pay for your studies we still have student loans here because students need to live somehow and we do have some fees which are obligatory at the beginning of every school year. And when you get into work life, you kind of pay back what was given to you through taxes.

The downfall of having it like this is that some people take advantage of it. I'll give you an example: let's take women who get into university and then get knocked up right at the beginning of the studies or in the middle. They "freeze" the school year but the university still keeps their place so they can come back whenever they want...some come back after 2-3 years, some might never come back. So basically, taxpayer's money is wasted on these cases. Or on the people who start one degree, never finish, switch to another - never finish, constantly trying to find themselves. These people really piss me off.

If we had tuition fees i don't know how much of the above would happen. I don't refer to extreme tuition fees but something to make people think twice before enrolling in a program and then ditching it because calving or they are just experimenting.

Let me simplify... I don't want anything given to me and I don't to pay anything back. Whatever I want, I'll pay for. What I don't want, I don't need to pay for. With this exception of a few things--and I'm talking about a few--generally, society should function on a "user pays" principle. I fully acknowledge the need to pay taxes in order to finance the military, police, fire departments, transportation, etc.

Finland, of course, is a very different country than the US. I don't expect anyone from Europe or anywhere else to closely follow our news cycle here, but we've had huge problems in the past year with college "kids" (again... grown ass adults by any metric) protesting over tuition and loans, among other things.

I don't care whether a person goes to college or not. I've stated many times in polite company, and now on here--go to college only if you NEED to go to college. By that I mean, if you are going to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant... you NEED college. You need to learn specific skills and earn licensure to practice in your field. If you're just going there to major in sociology, there's no need to take out $100K in loans to do so. All of that information is available for free in your local public library. Just go there. All of the information is in books, and it's all free.

If a person insists on taking out $100K in loans so they can major in 15th Century Egyptian Poetry, that's fine. But when they ask the rest of us to pay for it, that's an imposition. Immoral. Theft. I know some other countries are much more homogenous than the US and they are willing to pay high taxes. Me? If I had to pay 70% of my total earnings in taxes, I'd likely not want to get out of bed in the morning. Does that kind of taxation stifle individual motivation to go to work in Finland? I am curious.

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thom_c
whoomp there it is.

I like it, truth at the most pure state

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blackpearl
The downfall of having it like this is that some people take advantage of it. I'll give you an example: let's take women who get into university and then get knocked up right at the beginning of the studies or in the middle. They "freeze" the school year but the university still keeps their place so they can come back whenever they want...some come back after 2-3 years, some might never come back. So basically, taxpayer's money is wasted on these cases. Or on the people who start one degree, never finish, switch to another - never finish, constantly trying to find themselves. These people really piss me off.

One way or another, preggo moos always find a way to game the system: free college, having their job held for them while they decide whether or not they want to return to work, making co-workers pick up their slack, etc. I'm not generalizing all moos are gaming the system. But overall they are the worst offenders because they are aware of the safety nets which are seemingly ubiquitous in pro-natal societies. If it didn't exist or was more egalitarian then the sad moo tales would start to vanish as starvation is a bitch.

It is probably universally pushed in so many ways (Finland's version of Kodak moments) in any pro-natal society. And then there are the capitalistic societies: entertainment industry romanticizes this viewpoint further in these same societies. Since the people running the entertainment industry also own stocks, industries like pharmaceuticals also promote pro-natalism (just look at all the costs with sluicing/potential complications, etc.). Most religions all but dictate their member to sluice. Politicians use the catch phrase "famblee" and it works almost as well as "free" in advertising to somehow give the voting public the impression that sir or ma'am politician is "one of us" when nothing could be further from the truth. The herd animals whine and bitch when they are excluded from advertising and that is when the capitalists know they've got them. I view not feeding into this train wreck as the best way to buck the system.

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StudioFiftyFour
I don't care whether a person goes to college or not. I've stated many times in polite company, and now on here--go to college only if you NEED to go to college. By that I mean, if you are going to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant... you NEED college. You need to learn specific skills and earn licensure to practice in your field. If you're just going there to major in sociology, there's no need to take out $100K in loans to do so. All of that information is available for free in your local public library. Just go there. All of the information is in books, and it's all free.

I agree and have a loan I'm paying back for my education. Since it was my decision to take out the loan (not the best choice of majors) I'm paying it back nearly 20 years later. Meanwhile, I've known of more than one person who NEEDed to go to college, obtained a degree and retired very comfortably at around 30. Nearly everyone in every profession works hard and often long hours so since people now have the advantage of the internet and online resources then I see even less excuse for ignorance. High school students today have access to a wealth of free resources and reviews on occupation income, regional costs of living, etc. They are only limited by their aptitude.

Also, there are so many (mostly free) online courses a kid could graduate high school and already have a decent background in programming for instance. Lots of free online classes at Stanford, MIT, other colleges as well. As far as I know, there is still vocational training available in high school.

I can understand not going if you don't need to go. But if one can swing it, getting a degree still gives an advantage. I don't like the fact that I'm going to take out a second job to finish paying my loan, but I made the decision and there is no way I would want the taxpayers to pay for something I chose to do. Even though the degree I'm majoring in is in Political Science, it will still be pertinent to what I want to do later in life as it teaches how to basically run a city. I want to advance in my job eventually and being able to understand program management, laws between state and federal governments, and how to do a budget will come in handy when the time comes. Part of me wishes I had waited, but there isn't a better time than right now to do this.

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"It is better not to look like what you are; it is better to look like a bourgeois woman because then all the doors are open for you and then you can just go and make hell." - Marjane Satrapi

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StudioFiftyFour
Does that kind of taxation stifle individual motivation to go to work in Finland? I am curious.

Depends on the case and on how much you earn. If you don't have kids, you'd better go to work even if the pay is not great because still you'd have more than living on welfare. If you have kids and a low-wage job, better stay on welfare because you get more money. I've been told many times while i was studying and struggling financially to abandon studies and get knocked up because i'd get a very good welfare check. Even now, i'd get more money if i calved and stayed on welfare. You can even get money to fund your holiday if you have kids and are unemployed. Childless and unemployed? Be happy to survive with 450 euros a month if you can.

Of course, i would be glad to learn on my own but here no employer takes you seriously if you don't have education in the field you apply for. There are schools for everything, even for cleaning and i'm not joking. Few summers ago i was looking for a cleaning job to support my studies and i was refused by several employers because i don't have a certificate in cleaning (the school lasts 2 years mind you). There were people who had studies from prestigious foreign universities and they couldn't get a job here because people don't trust foreign education. I also had studies done abroad but i had to start all over here because they were not taken into consideration.

One woman even laughed in my face when i mentioned i took online classes from Brown and Michigan University although i can say l learned more there than in the stupid courses organized by the employment office here.

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freya


I agree and have a loan I'm paying back for my education. Since it was my decision to take out the loan (not the best choice of majors) I'm paying it back nearly 20 years later. Meanwhile, I've known of more than one person who NEEDed to go to college, obtained a degree and retired very comfortably at around 30. Nearly everyone in every profession works hard and often long hours so since people now have the advantage of the internet and online resources then I see even less excuse for ignorance. High school students today have access to a wealth of free resources and reviews on occupation income, regional costs of living, etc. They are only limited by their aptitude.

Also, there are so many (mostly free) online courses a kid could graduate high school and already have a decent background in programming for instance. Lots of free online classes at Stanford, MIT, other colleges as well. As far as I know, there is still vocational training available in high school.

Imagine paying for your education... and then being asked to finance other people's education, too. Don't worry though... it's all "for the kids."

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blackpearl

Of course, i would be glad to learn on my own but here no employer takes you seriously if you don't have education in the field you apply for. There are schools for everything, even for cleaning and i'm not joking. Few summers ago i was looking for a cleaning job to support my studies and i was refused by several employers because i don't have a certificate in cleaning (the school lasts 2 years mind you). There were people who had studies from prestigious foreign universities and they couldn't get a job here because people don't trust foreign education. I also had studies done abroad but i had to start all over here because they were not taken into consideration.

That sounds like an insane amount of nanny-statism you have over there.

@ blackpearl: In case you want to move to GER, let me tell you - you won't experience any cultural shock!
It's the same like in Finland! - social welfare, calving, education...

A certificate in cleaning is very important - you learn f.e. that you cannot clean the floor with a table cloth

I met a woman who had an MBA, she could only get a job as an intern in GER.
Later on she found a job in London.