More breeding encouragement - any way possible

http://pagesix.com/2017/02/11/john-legend-encourages-couples-to-consider-ivf/

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John Legend encourages couples to consider IVF

John Legend has encouraged other hopeful parents to consider IVF after he welcomed his daughter Luna with Chrissy Teigen following years of struggling to conceive.

The singer opened up on the pair’s difficulties starting a family in a tell-all chat, and admitted he’s happy they chose to seek help.

The pair welcomed nine-month-old daughter Luna through In-Vitro Fertilisation, which involved eggs being collected and fertilised in a lab.

Speaking to Newsweek, he said: “There are some who look down on people that have fertility issues and need to use IVF. We have had fertility issues for years and had to use IVF.

What are the chances that this was promoted by IVF industry? Pretty good if you were to ask me.

Easy for a multimillionaire to say when the money for however many rounds needed to succeed is essentially a drop in the bucket. Maybe he should fucking divulge how much that shit cost him and his fake chef wife while he's encouraging the laypeople to go the IVF route. It's fucking disingenuous to espouse and shill IVF when just two rounds can eat up the savings and assets of a middle-class couple and they still end up with no child. Oh, but adoption is soooooo expensive and you have to wait years! Yeah, if you're a jackass and only want a Healthy White or Asian Infant. Then yes, you're going to be paying a premium via private adoption and paying for the birth mother's pre- and postnatal medical bills (and possibly other unrelated bills to hedge your bets) and be on a four-year long waiting list. If you'd loosen up your standards and be willing to go the foster -> adoption route, you'd save a lot of money.

You only see this sort of shit from the fertility drug crowd, like a way to assuage their guilt for being narcissistic assholes that think they're so fucking special that they needed to replicate their DNA by convincing the other Infertile Myrtles to go the same route. You don't see Charlize Theron, Sandra Bullock, Angelina Jolie, Mia Farrow, Madonna, Hugh Jackman, and others doing similar adoption PSAs (even though I would secretly love it if they did and threw shade at the IVF/fertility drug crowd).

Or maybe one fucking realizes that nobody has ever died from not having kids, you go to therapy to get out of the fuckheaded mindset that you're somehow incomplete without a fucking baby, and live your goddamn life without them and without having to take out a second mortgage to fail at conceiving for the fifth time.

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

It's hard to even respect people who try to conceive and THEN adopt, because it reeks of consolation prize, but shit, I'll take that a thousand times over this IVF bullcrap. Huge waste of technology and money just so Moo can waddle around and get bellypats in public. Nobody comes to your "we're in the adoption pool!" party but goddamn if the sheep don't line up for the baby showers, sprinkles, gender reveal horseshit and every other gift grab under the sun for pregnant women.

IVF sometimes feels to me like it isn't about wanting a child - it's about Mooooo wanting to be preggers more than anything else.

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"Yes, fellow readers, nothing says 'devoted father of a special needs kid' quite like drinking, snorting cocaine, and then taking the boat out for a spin."
- Tiquer

What I don't get about the 'adoption is expensive,' excuse is that kids in general are expensive. If you don't want to spend $XX,000 on a lawyer {I don't remember how much my mom paid to adopt me but I know it was les than 60k} how are you going to feel paying the $250k to raise that kid? It's kind of like the difference between a shelter dog and a purebred. Shelter dogs are cheap/free, but that doesn't mean you should get one if you're broke. It still needs to eat, have toys, a leash, and regular visits to a vet. {I'm not shunning people with purebreds, I have one and would get one again. I'm just saying it's stupid to say I can't have X because it is expensive, but I can have Y when X and Y have the same long-term $250k price tag}.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

Well considering how many times the news is all over a 'heartwarming' story about how an adoptee tracked down the birth family, or the highly publicized stories of birth parents 'nobly' fighting to recover their brats, I can't really blame anyone for wanting a bio kid.

There's a case now where the birth father, who was in jail when the child was born, and the druggie bio mom lost custody in the courts; the child was adopted quite legally. Now, three years later, the bio dad decided he wanted the kid and was granted custody. The adoptive parents are fighting it, but it doesn't look good for them.

At least with IVF, you're not going to have the child go running back to whatever druggie trash birthed them, crying over the lost years, or have some lowlife snatch the kid away, probably to reap benefits.

It always gets to me that no one ever interviews the adoptive parents or even considers how they must feel after opening their home to a child, providing all the care and paying the bills for 20+ years only to be rewarded by rejection.

@JoJo

While I get what you are saying, I think the key word was publicized. The media is hugely biased, tending to be pro-breeder. I don't think the majority of adoptees want contact with their bio parents, I just think the minority that do receive more media attention because their stories align with the media's pro-breeder message. Now a formal study or survey would give a more definitive answer, but I think like all things it largely depends on the individuals involved and their beliefs. I was given the option to meet my bio parents and I said no, because imo the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb, and I don't believe in non-voluntary obligations {ex. you have to take care of aging relatives, people shouldn't put dangerous tards in an institute because 'he's their baby', etc}

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

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JoJo
There's a case now where the birth father, who was in jail when the child was born, and the druggie bio mom lost custody in the courts; the child was adopted quite legally. Now, three years later, the bio dad decided he wanted the kid and was granted custody. The adoptive parents are fighting it, but it doesn't look good for them.

There does need to be a lot of reform in family courts and demolition of this idea of bio-family reunification above all else. I don't even know how the above is even a serious fight. Given how difficult it is for an ex-con to make a decent living and the high rate of recidivism, why are they even entertaining the idea of ripping a toddler away from the only family it has ever known to throw it into an unstable environment where it may be exposed to criminal and other unsavory elements? The resulting trauma and attachment issues from being forcibly taken away from its rightful family to live with a felon who will likely go back to living a criminal lifestyle (and the possibly shitty family from which he was produced) will turn a kid that had potential in being a productive member of society to being felon generation xerox.

------------------------------------------------------------
"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

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paragon schnitzophonic

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JoJo
There's a case now where the birth father, who was in jail when the child was born, and the druggie bio mom lost custody in the courts; the child was adopted quite legally. Now, three years later, the bio dad decided he wanted the kid and was granted custody. The adoptive parents are fighting it, but it doesn't look good for them.

There does need to be a lot of reform in family courts and demolition of this idea of bio-family reunification above all else. I don't even know how the above is even a serious fight. Given how difficult it is for an ex-con to make a decent living and the high rate of recidivism, why are they even entertaining the idea of ripping a toddler away from the only family it has ever known to throw it into an unstable environment where it may be exposed to criminal and other unsavory elements? The resulting trauma and attachment issues from being forcibly taken away from its rightful family to live with a felon who will likely go back to living a criminal lifestyle (and the possibly shitty family from which he was produced) will turn a kid that had potential in being a productive member of society to being felon generation xerox.

Exactly. Just because the loaf is technically 'yours' doesn't mean you are going to be the better parent.

I know somewhere we had a thread about Nia Valardos, (of my Big Fat Greek Wedding fame) but now I can't find it.

She "struggled with infertility" for a decade and admits to having IVF 13 times before adopting through the foster car system. She's now shilling her book about the experience and extolling adoption through the foster care system. There are some comments on the page where someone asks the obvious and is shouted down with the usual cliches of "your (sic) bitter," etc.

sample article

So while her message is better than Legend's message, it doesn't change the fact that she's a hypocrite.

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contemplativeintrovert
@JoJo

While I get what you are saying, I think the key word was publicized. The media is hugely biased, tending to be pro-breeder. I don't think the majority of adoptees want contact with their bio parents, I just think the minority that do receive more media attention because their stories align with the media's pro-breeder message. Now a formal study or survey would give a more definitive answer, but I think like all things it largely depends on the individuals involved and their beliefs. I was given the option to meet my bio parents and I said no, because imo the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb, and I don't believe in non-voluntary obligations {ex. you have to take care of aging relatives, people shouldn't put dangerous tards in an institute because 'he's their baby', etc}

I have never considered looking up my sperm- and egg-donor. My real [adoptive] family, the one that raised me and cared for me and loved me, are quite enough, thank you.

I didn't look them up either. My mom, my real one, said she knew their names in case I ever wanted to meet them and I said no.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

I wonder if it's possible that adopted children that grow up to be CF are less likely to want to meet their bio-parents because the CF are less likely to fall for the oft-misquoted "blood is thicker than water" idea?

I'm not adopted, it's just a thought I had.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin

I am also adopted...and I have never had any thoughts of contacting my bio parents. My adoptive parents did destroy papers and lied to me about my adoptive parents by telling me my bio parents died when I was born. (and I found out later from my cousin who was living with my parents when I was adopted.... that they were unmarried and I was given up for adoption when I was 6 months old) My bio mother apparently had 3 other sibblings of her own to care for and I was too much for her. That is all I know... and all I need to know. No interest in finding them.

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(and I found out later from my cousin who was living with my parents when I was adopted.... that they were unmarried and I was given up for adoption when I was 6 months old

That's what's wrong about lying. You always get found out. I remember reading somewhere that Lee Majors found out he was adopted when he was a teenager from some kid in his neighborhood. Everyone knew but him.

Many families in the early 1900s through the 1970's thought nothing about passing off adopted children as biological children. I am not saying everyone should contact their bio family and I can well understand why someone might choose not to; I'm saying I believe people have a right to know basic information such as if they were adopted. They certainly shouldn't be lied to.

My bio mother lied to me routinely about very important things all my life and I wondered if my siblings and I were from the same father. Believe me, my mom would have no problem lying to anybody, including a husband. When we did ancestry as a family I said to her, as I was spitting in that tube, if you have something to tell me, you might want to come clean now. I did find out we are all from the same parents even though we look nothing alike and are very different temperament wise.

Most people don't want to spend money on adoption because they don't want "someone else's mistakes." They'd rather make some home-grown mistakes. And since people are so fucking picky about what kid they'd want to adopt, they find themselves out several grand with no kid to show for it after seven years because they "need" a healthy white male infant. Personally, I think if someone wants to be a parent for the right reasons, they won't care what color their kid is. I get that not everyone is going to want to pay out the ass to adopt a tard baby, but it seems like a lot of people who consider adoption want a kid that could pass as their biological offspring because they don't want to have to tell people why their kid is a different race than either of them, nor do they want to have to man up and explain to their purchased child why s/he looks like neither parent. Seems like some adoptive families are ashamed that they "had to" adopt and may not ever actually tell their kids that they're adopted, so they don't want to buy a child that looks vastly different from them because they don't want the kid to start asking questions. Dog forbid they might have to actually be parents for a moment.

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There are some who look down on people that have fertility issues and need to use IVF. We have had fertility issues for years and had to use IVF.

Nobody "needs" to use IVF because nobody "needs" kids. No matter what degree of hysterics wanna-breeders pull, nobody ever genuinely died from not having children and nobody ever will. Seems like it's incredibly rare these days for anybody to go immediately for adoption. People will do fertility treatments for fuck knows how many years, completely eating up their savings and if all efforts fail, then they'll settle for adoption because some stranger's kid is better than no kid. And believe me, they will treat that adopted child like the last resort it is. Not to mention that people perpetuate the belief that "you just can't love an adopted child as much as a biological one."

Why can't anybody take the hint that if you can't make a brat the old-fashioned way, maybe there's a fucking reason for it? If you want a kid because you genuinely want to experience raising and nurturing another human life, then it shouldn't matter if that kid came out of your taint or somebody else's because it's still a kid who still needs someone to love them. An adopted kid will only grow up feeling different if its parents treat it differently than they would a bio-kid.

I know domestic adoption sucks all kinds of balls because there's so much red tape and so much bullshit involved and you still might wind up without a kid in spite of doing everything by the book, and I do kind of wish it wasn't so damn hard to adopt so maybe more people would do it instead of making more unnecessary kids. Or better yet, how about a PSA that tells people that they aren't useless, incomplete human beings just because they can't/don't reproduce? How about telling people to quit defining themselves by something they can't do and focus on things they can do? I'd personally like to see all fertility treatments outlawed worldwide until we get the fucking population down to a reasonable number.

There's a lot of adoption in my family, and I've always considered it the most noble option if one wishes to raise children. I cannot help but notice that there's a huge element of nature in a person, however, and therefore an adopted child is perhaps less likely to share the interests of the parents.

Nonetheless, if your reason for becoming a parent is the only valid one - wanting to nurture someone and help them become a successful adult - adoption should be your first stop toward parenthood. All other reasons for having children are intensely selfish and contribute to overpopulation and misery.

Intriguing! The admittedly small sample of adoptees I either grew up around or met as a young adult all had fantasies of finding their bio parents. Some had tried, some just "knew" it would have been better with their "blood", which is pretty much never going to be the case except for instance perhaps not the coercive adoptions some religions engaged in... although maybe even in those cases if all the extended family viewed the child as "whorish leavings". Fucking fundies...

Of course at least one of these guys was some kind of sociopath, I ran a lot of his stories past his own childhood friend, to both of our astonishment he lied like constantly and for no reason. I guess we were never supposed to talk even though he happily introduced us and then I dated him.
So fantasizing about his bio parents and recounting his "adventures" trying to find them could have been nothing but him entertaining himself verbally.

All about that sample size, I know.

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skyeyes

I have never considered looking up my sperm- and egg-donor. My real [adoptive] family, the one that raised me and cared for me and loved me, are quite enough, thank you.

I have tried to find my birth family. I didn't do it because of the usual reasons, feeling something missing or wanting to find my 'real' family. I did it to find out more about my stinky health situation, something I think genetics has lots to do with.

Because I was adopted twice and I suspect a massive fuck up on the government's part, my information is locked down tighter than most adoptee's. My first adoptive family starved me and gave me a 'bleeding diaper rash'. This situation was so dire I was hospitalized for ten months. I was put into foster care for over a year and a half to deal with mental scars. Weather that was in fact a diaper rash or sexual abuse, no one knows.

I was unable to crack the California government lock.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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craftyzits
I have tried to find my birth family. I didn't do it because of the usual reasons, feeling something missing or wanting to find my 'real' family. I did it to find out more about my stinky health situation, something I think genetics has lots to do with.

That seems like the best possible reason. I can understand why someone would want medical background, as it helps with managing conditions and understanding your risk factors. That kind of information should be routinely provided, if available.

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lorelei_diangelo
It's hard to even respect people who try to conceive and THEN adopt, because it reeks of consolation prize, but shit, I'll take that a thousand times over this IVF bullcrap. Huge waste of technology and money just so Moo can waddle around and get bellypats in public. Nobody comes to your "we're in the adoption pool!" party but goddamn if the sheep don't line up for the baby showers, sprinkles, gender reveal horseshit and every other gift grab under the sun for pregnant women.

IVF sometimes feels to me like it isn't about wanting a child - it's about Mooooo wanting to be preggers more than anything else.

I get the same impression of those women who are driving the demand for uterus transplants. A lot of them lack ovaries as well as uteruses so even if they do get a transplant and their Frankenwomb is fully functional they'll still need an egg donor and won't have a biological child. Also it'll have to be delivered by caesarean so they won't get to "experience" a natural(ish) birth. These women just want the experience of being pregnant for some baffling reason- perhaps it's for the attention or the bragging rights, or just keeping up with their breeder friends. Fuck knows- if I wanted a sprog I'd think surrogacy would be preferable to having to incubate the little fucker myself.

If it was men who got pregnant I bet they wouldn't be clamouring for "the experience" of pregnancy and working to developing uterus transplants, they'd be supporting research into growing foetuses in jars so they could skip all the unpleasantness.

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screaming sausage
[If it was men who got pregnant I bet they wouldn't be clamouring for "the experience" of pregnancy and working to developing uterus transplants, they'd be supporting research into growing foetuses in jars so they could skip all the unpleasantness.

That's right! Men would buy one of those big jars of pretzels from Sam's Club, eat all the pretzels during a football game, then set up the jar in their garage with all of the other equipment to create the right environment. See, aren't men brilliant!?

Giving birth would be as simple as unscrewing the jar 9 months later. Then, as a bonus, they would make a tacky 80s Lifetime network movie about it.

As long as there are nearly a million kids eligible for adoption in America alone, IVF should be illegal. I am disgusted by people who just have to create a self replicant mini me and LIE about how they just want a healthy baby. HORSE SHIT. They want a healthy, white, boy AND girl, and mistakenly think it will carry all of their good genetic traits. They want to be immortal, which intelligent reasonable people know is impossible no matter how many times you drop a loaf. When your number is punched, childed or unchilded, you are GONE. No one, "lives on" via a self replicant, no one. However, many DO live on through their art, music, writings, and other talents, which breeders rarely have.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Gross. Why can't people keep their fucking reproductive choices to themselves? Probably because they're being sponsored by Big Petri Dish to shill for them. Just lost respect for John Legend, who is usually pretty socially conscious.

IVF is some uber privileged, first-world shit. If you want to promote something, why not lend your voice to a medical cause that will actually save lives, like blood/organ donation? Or, I dunno, ADOPTION of needy children that already exist?!

For those who are adopted, I'm 100% without a doubt my parents' child, but I still have head scratches when it comes to where my mental health issues come from.

Bipolar is from my dad's side, but nobody in the family and extended family has it! My dad has a mild case undiagnosed. My second great grandma killed herself, so that's a aha moment.

My only maternal cousin has autism, so there's that. Nobody on grandma's side has it, so it has to come from mom's sperm donor's family. I only know their names, but not their medical history.

My 23andme third party apps shows many genes and mutations related to schizophrenia. Schizoid Personality Disorder is on the schizophrenia spectrum. I'm clueless where it's from. Scandinavians have a higher risk of schizoid and schizotypical personality disorders, but that is mostly related to the Scandinavian personality. I probably get my loner traits from my mom. My brother is very shy and so is my cousin.

I also have many uncrackable brick walls in some branches of my family tree. From my 23andme cousins, I only recognize two with familiar last names. I have a lot of matches from Sweden, Quebec, and Norway, but none from Bohemia.

www.codegen.eu is a free promethease with less clutter.

TL;DR: Many of my relatives and brother are normal except me.

I can't edit my post. I facebooked stalked my paternal aunts and cousins. They are very social, oversharing, and basic.

Schizophrenic and asocial genes must come from my mom's side. It's exhausting for me to even socialize online.