Child benefits capped at 2 children in the UK - woe are moos, considering terminations because they can't afford more kyds

So the benefit cap in the UK has just come in, meaning most child benefits are now restricted to two children - this only applies to new births, it's not being applied retroactively.

I've long been a supporter of this. I just don't see why it's OK for people to pop out infinite kids and expect other people, i.e. the state, to support them. Two children is fine - parents these days don't need to have large families because we don't have high infant mortality rates, we're not sending poor kids to the mines and up chimneys to earn money for their families. We're overpopulated as it is, so why on earth these people want loads of kids is beyond me. There are countries where families get NO state support, let alone support for two children.

But no, now the moos are lowing that they are considering having terminations because they can't afford more baybees, waahhh the state won't pay for them! But I want MOAR BAYBEES! It's my right!

Most of the cuts so far have been borne by single, childless people, because nobody cares about them. Famblees are prioritised at food banks, in housing, in healthcare...tax credits for childless singletons and couples are next to nonexistent if you earn a low wage. I know people who are working who would like to start a family but are not doing so because they can't afford to have children right now - the cost of daycare is too much and they can't afford for one parent to stay home, so they make the responsible decision even though it's not what they would like to do. Why the hell are these benefit moos unable to make basic calculations and sensible decisions like everyone else?

I work in quite a liberal, leftie sort of environment, which is fine, because I am generally very liberal. But I can't get on board with everyone's outrage about this, because I just don't see why people should be entitled to have huge families that the state has to support. It's not the state that will push families into poverty because of this, it's bloody irresponsible, selfish moos who would rather bring another child into poverty than concentrate on raising the children they already have right. For most ordinary women who get pregnant, unless you're rich, the question of "Can I/we afford another child" will come into the equation somewhere. Why should benefit moos be any different? And I'm sorry, if the only choice is terminate or have a child you can't afford to bring up, then that's why we have safe, legal abortion provided on the NHS. If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. Adulting comes with hard choices to make sometimes.

Just needed to get that out there because there is literally NOWHERE else I can be honest about my feelings on this one!

It is like when people whine about the notion of drug testing to get welfare, and it's pointed out that many JOBS drug test.

If you're on welfare you have no business breeding anyway. You can have all the kids you want, just not on the public dime.

It also absolutely kills me when the lefties talk about "forcing" the moos to work before they are ready. You are ready when you need to put food on the table. My manager at work just had a baby and worked right up until she went into labour because she got only 6 weeks paid leave. She also saved up sick days and vacation days so she could have more time with the baby. When she was around 7 or 8 months, she fell and sprained her ankle. She STILL came to work and the other managers helped out by having her sit at the front desk and answer phones and focus on office work. She did that because she has a JOB and the job required it. Fuck the lazy moos who want to just sit on their fat asses squeezing out litters while everyone else pays.

I wish they would do this in the US. It's not long after one child is born before Moo gets knocked up with another...

There is a book out there written by a woman who is a member of the working poor. I found it the book "Hand to Mouth" at the library and it is a pretty good read. That is until she started screaming that "the poor do not have kids for the welfare check" Some do not and I think those are the people who insist that "no one has kids for the check" so no one will point the finger at them. She admitted that she thought kids can be as "cheap as you want them to be" which is kinda true if you don't give a crap about them.

Her plan for their education was to teach them to be really curious and to really get into learning so that will increase the chances for high marks, leading to scholarships and backed up by student loans. At the end of this chapter she admitted that the poor need to keep breeding as the white collar professionals and higher will need people to clean their toilets and take their orders in restaurants. I mentioned this to dh and he said robots will be taking those jobs over in the future to some degree.

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cfinboston
It is like when people whine about the notion of drug testing to get welfare, and it's pointed out that many JOBS drug test.
If you're on welfare you have no business breeding anyway.

It also absolutely kills me when the lefties talk about "forcing" the moos to work before they are ready. You are ready when you need to put food on the table.

One of my acquaintances (partner's friend's wife) had to go back to work after her mooternity leave was up (12 months, 6 of which were on full pay) because they bought a house in an "up and coming" trendy hipster famblee area that they could only afford with two salaries. To hear her lowing about it, you'd think she'd been forced into it, but it was as a result of their choices about moving to an area full of trendy crunchies so their kyd would have the right friends and go to the right school and there are kiddie yoga classes and all that shit. They could have moved somewhere cheaper, they could have bought a smaller house (but no, Moo wants more brats, so the house had to be set up for that) but they didn't. They have a lifestyle a lot of people can't even dream of, but Moo is still miserable. I just think some of these moos will never be happy, they seem to want the world to bend over backwards for them, they can't ever be satisfied. They are like black holes of neediness and want. It's like this bullshit about "secondary infertility" that moos whine about, they can't possibly think oh I've got a healthy child, it's no, woe is me, I need more kiiiiids! If they have healthy kids then they're lowing about having to work or not having the perfect birf experience...nothing makes them content, even, let alone happy.

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cfdavep
I mentioned this to dh and he said robots will be taking those jobs over in the future to some degree.

And the robots will be conquered by our feline overlords: robot vacuum controlled by kitteh

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“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

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She admitted that she thought kids can be as "cheap as you want them to be" which is kinda true if you don't give a crap about them.

Sounds like Breeder mentality. I think a lot of kyds have too many material goods that are not necessities, but as a practical matter, you also should have a decent job with access to medical care if you have kyds. IMO, it's selfish to have kids when you can't afford to feed them decent healthy food (which does not include tater tot casserole a la Duggar) and you can't afford things like medical and dental bills.

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Her plan for their education was to teach them to be really curious and to really get into learning so that will increase the chances for high marks, leading to scholarships and backed up by student loans.

Paging Captain Obvious, but if this woman is living hand to mouth, she has no business contemplating having a kid. And rather than contemplating a kid, wouldn't a truly life changing experience^TM involve getting her own damn education, instead of taking the typical cop-out route and putting all the dreams/expectations on the next generation?

I worked my way out of the lower middle/lower class. No trust fund, no parental help. I worked menial jobs and lived in shit holes. I had various jobs: shoe store worker, a CSR, a waitress, secretary, worked in a doctor's office. I went to school during all this. I was exhausted when I finished, but each time I got a better job. I was flexible because I had NO KIDS. I could afford to move for a job. And because I had no kids, I could live below my means.

It can be done. It saddens me to see women (and women bear the brunt of bad Breeding decisions) who burrow into their shitty lives by having kids too young and when they can't support themselves. It's the surest way to torpedo any future you could have and put yourself into an economic hole you can't get out of.

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cfdavep
At the end of this chapter she admitted that the poor need to keep breeding as the white collar professionals and higher will need people to clean their toilets and take their orders in restaurants. I mentioned this to dh and he said robots will be taking those jobs over in the future to some degree.

No cleaning toilets, look what American Standard came up with

Look at what AMF, the bowling alley people, dreamed up in the 60s.

To be truthful, I wish there were more robots doing fast food, I would not have to worry about people being disgusting with my food. And my dream bathroom is going to have the Acticlean toilet.

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cfdavep
Her plan for their education was to teach them to be really curious and to really get into learning so that will increase the chances for high marks, leading to scholarships and backed up by student loans.

But that is only part of school success. For example, in Pennsylvania it is possible to have a very bad school district next to a very good one (other states might be like that too). One can be really curious but if they live in a school district like Breed Hills, Stupidview, or Dum Rox that curiosity and motivation will soon go away. And they, like their classmates, will be breeding and barely making it. If the mom is working a low paying job, she will not be able to afford a place in Upper Saint Smart, Smartway, or Mount Intelligent. The smartness seems to generally follow the money, and smart people don't breed as much.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11948834/Tax-credits-Osborne-cuts-Working-poor-have-jobs-but-cant-pay-bills.html

I believe this article concerns the single moos in England and the 2 child cap. She happens to be working, but is a member of the working poor, living at a welfare rate but working for it. She seems to admit in the end that marrriage before kids may have been a better deal

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cfdavep
Some do not and I think those are the people who insist that "no one has kids for the check" so no one will point the finger at them.

I call bullshit on this. I did birth/death certificates for two years and in that time I have seen and heard some shit:

1) Getting off the elevator and grandparents are getting on. They are discussing how the new loaf is another paycheck
2) Doing the paternity paperwork and go to the room. Duhd is crowing how they can now eat steak and lobster
3) 14 year old squeezed one out and gramoo is so happy that she doesn't have to work anymore
4) Get a call looking for the proof of birth so they can start their benefits so she doesn't have to go back to work

and on and on and on....

But don't forget, we childfree are destroying humanity and the planet by refusing the right of our sproggin to come into being.

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"It is better not to look like what you are; it is better to look like a bourgeois woman because then all the doors are open for you and then you can just go and make hell." - Marjane Satrapi

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addiea raine

I call bullshit on this. I did birth/death certificates for two years and in that time I have seen and heard some shit:

1) Getting off the elevator and grandparents are getting on. They are discussing how the new loaf is another paycheck
2) Doing the paternity paperwork and go to the room. Duhd is crowing how they can now eat steak and lobster
3) 14 year old squeezed one out and gramoo is so happy that she doesn't have to work anymore
4) Get a call looking for the proof of birth so they can start their benefits so she doesn't have to go back to work

and on and on and on....

This is why we need a cap in the US right the fuck now. These welfare whores continually whine about how they can't afford anything to feed all those mouths on the nightly news but if you zero in you can see the fresh manicure and hair extensions, the newest model iPhone, the flat-screen TV in the background......

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aes sedai

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addiea raine

I call bullshit on this. I did birth/death certificates for two years and in that time I have seen and heard some shit:

1) Getting off the elevator and grandparents are getting on. They are discussing how the new loaf is another paycheck
2) Doing the paternity paperwork and go to the room. Duhd is crowing how they can now eat steak and lobster
3) 14 year old squeezed one out and gramoo is so happy that she doesn't have to work anymore
4) Get a call looking for the proof of birth so they can start their benefits so she doesn't have to go back to work

and on and on and on....

This is why we need a cap in the US right the fuck now. These welfare whores continually whine about how they can't afford anything to feed all those mouths on the nightly news but if you zero in you can see the fresh manicure and hair extensions, the newest model iPhone, the flat-screen TV in the background......

We probably could... since the Repubs are mostly in power they could theoretically do this, since they seem to hate a lot of welfare anyway. Unfortunately it's probably considered political suicide, since you know it will be crowed by someone 'They hate poor mothers!' and 'They are trying to starve children!'

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cfdavep
Her plan for their education was to teach them to be really curious and to really get into learning so that will increase the chances for high marks, leading to scholarships and backed up by student loans. At the end of this chapter she admitted that the poor need to keep breeding as the white collar professionals and higher will need people to clean their toilets and take their orders in restaurants. I mentioned this to dh and he said robots will be taking those jobs over in the future to some degree

So this author who admittedly has few job skills and no background in neuroscience or education, is going to devise a better education system for the rest of us? That's cute. After that maybe she can give LeBron James a few pointers on how to play basketball. But I digress...

Has she taken innate IQ into account? And even though there is some "elasticity" with cognitive ability... has she taken into account that maybe, just maybe, certain genetic combinations will never produce a high IQ person?

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aes sedai
This is why we need a cap in the US right the fuck now. These welfare whores continually whine about how they can't afford anything to feed all those mouths on the nightly news but if you zero in you can see the fresh manicure and hair extensions, the newest model iPhone, the flat-screen TV in the background......

I like this idea, but! Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. With that said, based on extensive past research into legal issues and the US Constitution, I suspect that capping the number of children in this way—or for that matter limiting the number of tax deductions and exemptions based on number of children—would be found unconstitutional in court.

The reason is the the equal protection clause in the 14th Amendment: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Saying that one child or her/his family gets a benefit because she/he is the first or second born in the family, but an identical child does not because she/he is (say) No. 5, could easily be construed as unequal treatment in court.

This interpretation suggests that entirely eliminating welfare benefits or tax deductions for dependents would fly, since all dependents would be treated equally by no one having or generating any benefit. But saying some get it and others don't wouldn't work. Just my two cents' worth. Complete elimination of dependent-based goodies wouldn't hurt my feelings at all, by the way.

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kman
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Saying that one child or her/his family gets a benefit because she/he is the first or second born in the family, but an identical child does not because she/he is (say) No. 5, could easily be construed as unequal treatment in court.

I totally get what you're saying, but this rides the dangerous line where breeding is considered a right and not a privilege for those who are competent at raising children (read: no crackheads etc.) and can actually afford them. Not that people should be power-breeding instead of adopting but nothing can legislate that. It would only be unconstitutional if the law was retroactive, which the UK's is not, and for that reason if the US did this it would also have to be non-retroactive. Breeding is not a right when it's on the taxpayers' dime. It isn't unequal treatment if two are capped and a third child is never born, because if a lightbulb goes off in moo and duh's head that they can't feed another mouth, it isn't unequal treatment for someone who never existed in the first place. Hypothetical humans who were never alive to begin with and will never be alive have no rights because they're exactly that - hypothetical. Of course, the pro-liars would whine to no end about how "future chyyyyldren are meant to be" to no end. Tough.

I do think there are some people here saying it's unconstitutional in terms of human rights, but breeding is not a human right. Those who still want to have more than two kids can do so - they just won't get extra state money for it. They are not being forced to abort or give up their kids like they used to be in the workhouse days when poor women did have kids taken away or would have to give them to the orphanage if they couldn't feed them. And back then there was no family planning either. Now you can have free contraception so you can wherever possible prevent unwanted pregnancy.

The story is even more sensationalist because the new laws don't apply if a woman was pregnant before it came in, so only if they got knocked up after the new rules were applicable would they not receive the support. But of course this has conveniently been left out, making it look like these poor inpig moomoos have no choice but to abort their pregnancies. I mean, they could have the extra baybee and go get a job...

The benefit cap came from a necessity in trying to essentially force people to be responsible for themselves since they won't do so without prompting. If you're already reliant on government benefits in order to feed and house your family, you have absolutely no business having another child and then demanding the state to give you more money. If you want to have another child, that's your prerogative, but you're going to have to redo your budget to live within what you already have. This is Britain, where birth control and abortion are readily available, not the grand majority of the USA where both are so restricted. There's no excuse to have a child you clearly can't afford.

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"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
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Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
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cfdavep
There is a book out there written by a woman who is a member of the working poor. I found it the book "Hand to Mouth" at the library and it is a pretty good read. That is until she started screaming that "the poor do not have kids for the welfare check" Some do not and I think those are the people who insist that "no one has kids for the check" so no one will point the finger at them. She admitted that she thought kids can be as "cheap as you want them to be" which is kinda true if you don't give a crap about them.

Her plan for their education was to teach them to be really curious and to really get into learning so that will increase the chances for high marks, leading to scholarships and backed up by student loans. At the end of this chapter she admitted that the poor need to keep breeding as the white collar professionals and higher will need people to clean their toilets and take their orders in restaurants. I mentioned this to dh and he said robots will be taking those jobs over in the future to some degree.

Reading this post reminded me of a certain book that we talked about on the patio a while back. I broke down and read $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America . O mahi Goard R those PPL sofa king stoopid.

Moral of the book. Be a rabid asexual with a severe relationship phobia and go to college and study hard.

But some of the women were most likely discriminated against because of their melanin rich skin tone and/or ethnic name. What I really can't wrap my head around is how in the world would it take forever to get employment, but I forgot about my pasty complexion and 99% European ancestry which equals white privilege by default. This book makes me think and appreciate how privileged I am.\

I know that I have 300 other books on my kindle account to read, but this isn't my typical reading materially lately. Mainly books that I read prepare me for college and better memory books.

That is a start but maybe the UK government can also pass a bill stating that people who have more kids have to pay more in taxes.

And that is how it should be here in the United States, too.

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selidororous
That is a start but maybe the UK government can also pass a bill stating that people who have more kids have to pay more in taxes.

And that is how it should be here in the United States, too.

I'd be happy if they didn't pay less, but I don't know a single country where they don't get deductions.