Jailing parents of bullies

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/parents-york-town-could-face-jail-fine-under-135605554--abc-news-parenting.html

I don't know where this will lead, but a town in NY is considering tossing in jail the parents of school bullies. I wonder if this could lead to tossing them in jail for other reasons, still there is a cost to keeping someone in jail

Speaking as a person who was bullied to the point of dropping out, I say good! Maybe if shitty parents are held accountable for their kyd's equally shitty behaviour, then maybe things will change. You just know some of them are like "my kyd is just spirited/indigo/insert-buzzword-du-jour!" or "But my little Shitleigh would never do that!"

However, this could easily backfire if the bully is a jock or has filthy rich parents. What about the violent autards, will they get punished for violent behaviour too or do they get a pass because they're "speychal"?

At least in the age of Big Brother, there will always be some form of proof eg. CCTV, screenshots, Farcebook messages, text messages, other people filming on their phones etc.

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cfdavep
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/parents-york-town-could-face-jail-fine-under-135605554--abc-news-parenting.html

I don't know where this will lead, but a town in NY is considering tossing in jail the parents of school bullies. I wonder if this could lead to tossing them in jail for other reasons, still there is a cost to keeping someone in jail

Where will it lead? Nowhere good, in my opinion. Anti-bullying laws are simply attempts at feel-good SJW legislation that restricts the freedom of all people in search for a perfect utopia.

If bullies commit a crime, we already have laws on the books for those crimes. There are laws on the books that spell out specific offenses that "bullies" are committing, such as assault, battery, theft, harassment, stalking, etc. How about instead of passing new laws, we simply enforce the laws that are already on the books?!? If someone is breaking these laws, let's charge them, try them, convict them, and punish them to the full extent of existing laws.

The underlying problem is this: Today's kids and teens do not even get the opportunity to solve any problems, themselves. In middle-class upbringings, adults are always encouraged to be present. There is far too much micro-management over youth lives. There needs to be a lot more learning how to be self-sufficient and how to resolve conflict and a lot less "Big Brother" from the parents or the state.

Why do you think there is so much noise coming from the college campuses to restrict free speech and provide "safe spaces" from ideas that are out of line with university leftism? It's because these are the same children that were taught from the moment they were born that the answer in life to all of their problems is to run to an adult or authority figure and do the woe-is-me routine. As a result we've got an increasing percentage of young people who are completely helpless when faced with ideas or circumstances that they don't like. They lack agency, they lack logic, and they lack problem-solving skills. What's scary for all of us, politically, is that as this segment of the population increases and gains more power, this will become huge problem. When the nanny-state is seen as the sole entity to help you deal with the stressors of life, you end up with rulers rather than leaders.

There are instances, and they are increasingly common, of schools ignoring 'bullying' that is up to the level of crime. Example is several stories about students being beaten on the bus, and the school and bus driver ignoring the situation.

There is also the situation of bullycides, students committing suicide because of excess bullying that is ignored by the adults. This is exasperated by mainstreaming disabled kids into public schools. These disabled kids, sometimes high functioning, don't have the social skills to deal with the abuse. The Hulkatards aren't the only disabled kids in school.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

While I know there may be extreme bullying exceptions out there in the real world, Studio 54 I agree with everything you said.

Exactly how is a kid with no life experience supposed to know how to deal with bullying? And regardless of age how is one person supposed to defend themselves against many without any help? The only two ways I can think of are with a gun or a bomb. So bullied kids should bring guns to school ?

I was bullied a lot as a child and it really messed up my head and my life a lot. Every adult I knew said something like "it's YOUR problem YOU figure out how to solve it." Again, how the fuck is a kid with no life experience supposed to know what to do? And all the things I was bullied about were things I could not control. They were either genetic (very tall for my age, very early puberty) or my parents' choice (weird clothes, overprotective, didn't go to church).

I agree that many kids today are not taught to deal with life at all, but bullying is a real problem that does real harm and needs to be taken seriously.

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The law has received some backlash from parents who claim it goes too far.

“You can’t make parents parent their kid,” one commenter wrote on Facebook.

I say put the little fuckers in jail. Assault and harassment aren't tolerated anywhere else in society except if you're a minor in a school. Why???

Bullied kids need to be given free martial arts/self defense classes and taught to hit back. It's the only thing that penetrates the thick, simian minds of these little assholes.

This seems like a really stupid idea to me. I don't believe that it is fair to remove one person's freedom in response to another person's actions.

First, there's the obvious practical problem that the most wretched little beasts would use it as a tool to control their parents.

Has anyone watched comedian Russel Peters describe the difference between his upbringing as a child of Indian immigrants, compared to one of his white classmates? The other boy basically bosses his mother around, and as soon as she even thinks of punishing him, he threatens to call CPS and she is quickly cowed. (The same tactic is not effective on Russel's father.)

Yeah. So imagine one of those brats who is pissed at a parent who told them no dessert last night, and who enjoys hitting other kids. It seems like a win-win to bully at school, and get the parent punished too.

Second, there are economic consequences to being in jail. People will miss days of work at minimum, and might well be fired. Those are pretty severe consequences, so will a criminal standard of proof be required before these charges are applied?

Honestly I doubt it. I've heard too many cases where a bullied kid finally fought back and that child was the one who ran against the school's "zero tolerance" rules. Chances are good that rich parents with good lawyers aren't going to be the ones facing jail time, even if their children are clearly bullies, while people who are living paycheck to paycheck aren't going to have much opportunity to protest.

And will any of this improve the temperament of the bully, or address the underlying reasons for the behavior? It seems likely that someone who is an asshole, or who has anger issues, is not going to respond to poverty by becoming more docile.

Third, to what extent are parents responsible for their spawn? Sure, in a lot of cases, they are responsible for their children being absolute terrors. But some people are just rotten to begin with. Or what if the child is adopted and had an abusive situation previously, are the adoptive parents responsible for the child being troubled?

All this is without denying that bullying can have a severe impact and that in many cases something needs to be done about it. I just don't think that something is jailing parents, with no evidence whatsoever that they are the root cause of the bully's actions.

I'd be quite okay though with making it illegal for breeders to deliberately create non-functional adults. I'd also be okay with children being charged with assault if that's what they're doing, and suffering the consequences.

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ondinette
Exactly how is a kid with no life experience supposed to know how to deal with bullying? And regardless of age how is one person supposed to defend themselves against many without any help? The only two ways I can think of are with a gun or a bomb. So bullied kids should bring guns to school ?

I was bullied a lot as a child and it really messed up my head and my life a lot. Every adult I knew said something like "it's YOUR problem YOU figure out how to solve it." Again, how the fuck is a kid with no life experience supposed to know what to do? And all the things I was bullied about were things I could not control. They were either genetic (very tall for my age, very early puberty) or my parents' choice (weird clothes, overprotective, didn't go to church).

I agree that many kids today are not taught to deal with life at all, but bullying is a real problem that does real harm and needs to be taken seriously.

No piece of legislation is going to make any person less susceptible to bullying. What is the problem with simply enforcing the many laws we already have on the books to punish the perpetrators of crime?

Practically I don’t see how it would work and I expect it would only happen in really extreme cases. The onus would be on the court to prove that the parent/s failed to deal with, or even encouraged the bullying - it does happen but would be very hard to prove.

I was bullied in school and it was shitty, but I fail to see how removing a child’s parents would help the bully to stop their behaviour. Surely it would cause even more resentment and fucked up-ness in that kid? But maybe not in the case of bullies who are just little sociopaths in the making, I don’t know. Mandating family therapy and parenting programs would be more useful IMO. Maybe only if they fail to attend those interventions should other punishments be considered.

S54,

Enforcing existing laws might be just as good or better than creating new ones. I agree the problem is nothing is really done.

But please don't imply bullied kids are just special snowflakes who need to toughen up and learn to deal with it. Bullying does not work that way. The bullies target the kids who are different or vulnerable, and it does not matter whether they choose to be or not. I suspect about 99% of the time the difference is not the kid's choice.

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ondinette
S54,

Enforcing existing laws might be just as good or better than creating new ones. I agree the problem is nothing is really done.

But please don't imply bullied kids are just special snowflakes who need to toughen up and learn to deal with it. Bullying does not work that way. The bullies target the kids who are different or vulnerable, and it does not matter whether they choose to be or not. I suspect about 99% of the time the difference is not the kid's choice.

I am not implying anything, at least not intentionally. I don't know whether bullied kids are special snowflakes or not--that can't be determined by anything other than a case by case examination of specific circumstances.

What I have learned, in my life experience, is that generally speaking, human beings have very little concern for each other--particularly strangers. That's why rule of law is so important. And we must balance the rule of law with limited government and with a respect for individual liberties. If a "bully" beats someone up, I say charge him with battery. If evidence exists that he is in fact guilty, I say fine him, jail him, punish him, throw him out of school. That's justice.

But we can't layer meaningless laws on top of other laws, particularly when those new statutes are completely vague in definition and potentially trample the freedom of others. For example, we are and should be completely free to criticize others with whom we disagree and to freely associate with anyone we choose. Is it "bullying" to verbally insult someone? Or their ideas? Or to reject someone? I believe anti-bullying laws open the door to such nonsense. We do have laws on the books prohibiting harassment and stalking. But do we really need more laws that address, for example, cyber bullying? Just click the red "x" and move on with your life because as I stated previously (and frankly), nobody cares.

I think that jailing the parents would only make a kid who already has issues even worse, honestly.

ondinette~ Bullies are usually bullied themselves at home, usually by the father, or an older sibling. They actually have a ton of problems themselves. Since this is true, I'm surprised they don't have families go into counseling when they see the behavior being acted out.

Cfuter,

Nothing personal, but I have heard many times about how bullies have a crappy home life, and I don't care. My home life was far from ideal. My parents were very negative and critical and in a bad mood most of the time. I never knew what would piss them off until I did it, and it seemed nearly everything pissed them off. The last thing I needed was more shitty treatment at school, but that is exactly what I got. It was not always just words either. Some of them were really physically abusive. Sorry, but I'm just very sensitive about this whole bullying thing because of how I was treated, and I have a huge amount of resentment about getting a ton of shit for things I could not choose.

I tend to agree with Ondinette here. I don't give two fucks about how the bullies were treated. In my case, they had a sort of pack mentality. The fuckers all grouped together and physically and emotionally beat me up. I was going through hell with an abusive mother, poverty and on top of that I had to deal with sexual abuse. I never EVER bullied anyone. If anything, all it did was destroy my self esteem further and make me an even bigger target for the bullies.

I say send the kids to jail along with their parents. It may be harsh, but it's the way I feel.

they're fellow victims of bullying. that's all I'm saying, as a victim of bullying, we want understanding/kindness, and maybe we could give it too.
I realized my bullies had it actually worse than I did in many ways. Maybe we were all stronger, therefore, we didn't end up picking on others like they did.

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ondinette
Cfuter,

Nothing personal, but I have heard many times about how bullies have a crappy home life, and I don't care. My home life was far from ideal. My parents were very negative and critical and in a bad mood most of the time. I never knew what would piss them off until I did it, and it seemed nearly everything pissed them off. The last thing I needed was more shitty treatment at school, but that is exactly what I got. It was not always just words either. Some of them were really physically abusive. Sorry, but I'm just very sensitive about this whole bullying thing because of how I was treated, and I have a huge amount of resentment about getting a ton of shit for things I could not choose.

If the bullies were physically abusive, I support charging them with the crimes that they have committed, and punishing them to the full extent of the law.

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mumofsixbirds
I tend to agree with Ondinette here. I don't give two fucks about how the bullies were treated. In my case, they had a sort of pack mentality. The fuckers all grouped together and physically and emotionally beat me up. I was going through hell with an abusive mother, poverty and on top of that I had to deal with sexual abuse. I never EVER bullied anyone. If anything, all it did was destroy my self esteem further and make me an even bigger target for the bullies.

I say send the kids to jail along with their parents. It may be harsh, but it's the way I feel.

We have laws on the books against assault, battery, and sexual assault. We need to aggressively pursue charges against those who suspected of committing these crimes, while still protecting their due process rights, and avoiding unnecessary new legislation that will do nothing other than restricting the freedoms of others.

The idea of imposing a prison punishment on those who have not been convicted of a crime is illogical and tyrrannical. This kind of thing is done in places like North Korea, where individuals face punishments for crimes that relatives have committed. Sane nations don't do this sort of thing.

agreed S54, how would that case even be tried? Prove the kids did the violence and ipso facto, strict liability, you go to jail?

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cfuter
agreed S54, how would that case even be tried? Prove the kids did the violence and ipso facto, strict liability, you go to jail?

That's what it seems to be.

As you can see, some are on board with the idea. The question is... what next? When do the authorities come to your home, seeking to punish you for a crime that someone else committed?

And when does the definition of "bullying" extend to the childfree? We've seen the massive backlash that occurs when business owners speak out against titfeeding in their lawfully-owned establishments. At what point will their actions turn into crimes? What about childfree folks who park in preggo spots? What about when a citizen politely declines to purchase a child's fund raiser candy? At what point will these completely lawful actions evolve from a perceived discourtesy into a criminal offense?

Before you say, "That's a slippery slope argument and things will never go that far," keep in mind that society is changing very rapidly. Just when you thought up was up and down was down, the Boy Scouts announced that they will be admitting girls.

And folks, I'm sorry to disappoint you with this revelation, but in case you haven't noticed, being childfree isn't exactly the most flattering or popular title to hold in society, these days. If people can convince the authorities to slap a "bully" criminal charge on us, they will certainly do so.

Well, I know that will never happen, and since I am not in the place to do anything about it, it was just my anger about bullies that made me say that. I know there is no way of enforcing such a law, but I still don't care about the bullies or their parents.

The weird thing was that every time I stood up to a bully in order to protect myself, I was punished by the school. I think that people and kids who are bullied should be listened to, and perhaps something could be done about it.

As far as extending my kindness to someone who bullied me, wouldn't that be a great sign of weakness to them? Maybe in my mind I would be trying to help, but in theirs, they would be thinking of ways to manipulate the situation so they could hurt me more.

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mumofsixbirds
Well, I know that will never happen, and since I am not in the place to do anything about it, it was just my anger about bullies that made me say that. I know there is no way of enforcing such a law, but I still don't care about the bullies or their parents.

The weird thing was that every time I stood up to a bully in order to protect myself, I was punished by the school. I think that people and kids who are bullied should be listened to, and perhaps something could be done about it.

As far as extending my kindness to someone who bullied me, wouldn't that be a great sign of weakness to them? Maybe in my mind I would be trying to help, but in theirs, they would be thinking of ways to manipulate the situation so they could hurt me more.

You have every right to be angry at them, and you are under no obligation to demonstrate any sort of kindness toward them.

I have no time or patience or sympathy for those who abuse other people. Let them stand before the justice system and if convicted, they should pay a stiff penalty.

My objection to these laws is not out of sympathy for the bullies, but out of the very real concern that these laws will be contorted to stifle our rights. Regardless of where you stand, politically, as a childfree person I believe it's imperative to protect the rights of the individual. I don't believe it is sheer paranoia to suggest that the label of "bully" has been and will be thrown at CF people at every possible opportunity. If the "bully" label has actual crimes attached to it, we are collectively going to be in deep do-do.

Adding new laws to old laws isn't always bad. It's sometimes necessary because evil people can be some creative fuckers.

Look at anti-stalking laws. Before those laws were on the books, the police didn't have a legal way to stop harassment and had to wait until someone actually did something to physically harm someone else. There was no legal redress for calling someone, writing someone, giving someone unwanted attention and not taking no for an answer and repeating the behavior.

I'm wondering if some of these little teen shits could be prosecuted under anti-stalking laws.

Like Mo6 I am angry about being bullied and have no sympathy for the bullies because they had none for me. I also agree with Bell about new laws sometimes being necessary. A few years ago when I became chronically ill and my boss was being a massive bitch I consulted my union representative and a lawyer. I ended up getting long term disability but nothing was ever done to the boss or other bad managers there. One thing I learned from the process is that new laws keep being invented because people keep finding new ways to be fucking assholes. The union was trying to pass a resolution to force managers to do something they were supposed to be doing anyway.The boss was the type who I just KNOW was one of the mean girls in high school. She was 49 years old and hadn't changed a bit. Everyone she picked on was an "uncool" type. I'm sick of these people getting away with trashing other people's lives over and over.

Would creating new laws improve bullying, or do we just have to enforce existing ones? I don't know. I do know something should be done because bullying is a real social problem that harms a lot of people.

I think parents are definitely on the hook for the behavior of their children. We give the PARENTS the stink eye when their brat is being a rude little beast in a store or restaurant. Because the PARENTS have the obligation to teach their children how to behave in public or make other arrangements to keep their beasts from bothering people.

If a person decides to indulge in the mirakle of birf, or just stupidly gets knocked up and decides to shit the kid out, then they become a PARENT, and that comes with a shit load of obligations and responsibilities (whether said parent wants to acknowledge that or not). If a parent decides to not parent after willingly taking on the role of parent, the kid needs to go to CPS where someone will deal with the brat.

Schools exist to educate. They are not supposed to be social support, community aid, or crisis centers. The reason behind a kid's bullying is not the school's responsibility. The school's responsibility is to provide a safe place for education. Primary education is compulsory in the US - the government *should not* be forcing anyone to go somewhere where they feel unsafe, harassed and physically threatened.

If you're a parent and your little shit is being a bully and a psychopath at school, it is 100% your responsibility. If you can't get the kid to behave yourself, YOU need to seek out additional resources to deal with the problem. If you're not taking on the responsibility and obligation of socializing your fuck trophy - which, by social contract, you agreed to take on by not aborting the pregnancy and leaving the hospital with the child - then YOU deal with the consequences.