Jailing parents of bullies

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ondinette

Would creating new laws improve bullying, or do we just have to enforce existing ones? I don't know. I do know something should be done because bullying is a real social problem that harms a lot of people.

Can you point to any social ills that have been "cured" via new legislation? I can point to a host of them where legislation has cost us vast sums of money and resources and produced no net benefit: Prohibition, "War on Drugs," addiction, LBJ's 'Great Society,' anti-poverty/welfare legislation, alcoholism, domestic violence, gun violence, etc. etc. etc.

But I'm supposed to believe that strict "anti-bullying" laws, enforced by Big Brother, will "cure" the problem of bullying? Sorry, I'm not buying that.

A few years back I ran into my state representative who told me that in order to "reduce the number of assault weapons" he would be seeking stricter gun registration policies during the next legislative session. My reply: "Well all of you (politicians) promised to get the drugs off the streets, starting 50 years ago. Why don't you finish accomplishing that before asking for further intrusions upon our freedoms and wallets?" Naturally, he was insulted, flustered, and bewildered. This brought me great pleasure.

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bell_flower
Adding new laws to old laws isn't always bad. It's sometimes necessary because evil people can be some creative fuckers.

Human beings are flawed creatures. You're absolutely right.

How do we handle ourselves in light of this revelation?

Option 1: As an individual, I believe your best bet is to take a class in self-defense, which will allow you to defend yourself against your garden-variety bully.

Option 2: More laws, more cops, more courts, more lawyers, more government intrusion upon your life, and yet no evidence that any of these measures will make any impact on the problem, at all.

MumOfSixBirds said, "The weird thing was that every time I stood up to a bully in order to protect myself, I was punished by the school. I think that people and kids who are bullied should be listened to, and perhaps something could be done about it."

This has become a real issue in many US school systems: someone who tries to defend himself/herself against a bully gets in just as much trouble as the culprit, or even more. These proposed laws might throw the victims' parents in jail.

Also, real bullies have been known to turnabout and claim that, no, the victims were the bullies, and all too often they get believed. It seems that too many school administrators know who they are, but act to protect them anyway. This all means that often doing anything about real bullies requires multiple victims to keep coming forward and finally threatening to file civil suits or criminal charges. In the meantime, some victims' families could find themselves facing jail over a bully's false claims.

Needless to say, though I applaud this proposed law in spirit, I find myself opposing it because of a real possibility of abuse against the wronged parties.

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kman

Needless to say, though I applaud this proposed law in spirit, I find myself opposing it because of a real possibility of abuse against the wronged parties.

And I'll add, we have all kinds of laws on the books against murder. And yet, the authorities seldom charge parents with any serious wrongdoing when they leave their own children in a hot car, baking them to death.

If parents are able to walk away from 1st Degree Murder, makes anyone willing to believe that these same authorities will be willing to throw them in prison over "bullying?"

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StudioFiftyFour

But I'm supposed to believe that strict "anti-bullying" laws, enforced by Big Brother, will "cure" the problem of bullying? Sorry, I'm not buying that.

A few years back I ran into my state representative who told me that in order to "reduce the number of assault weapons" he would be seeking stricter gun registration policies during the next legislative session. My reply: "Well all of you (politicians) promised to get the drugs off the streets, starting 50 years ago. Why don't you finish accomplishing that before asking for further intrusions upon our freedoms and wallets?" Naturally, he was insulted, flustered, and bewildered. This brought me great pleasure.

You sound like a libertarian, I like you. And I agree 100%.

My issue with gun control laws, and anti bullying laws, and the like, are that they are ineffective. A law does not magically make the behavior stop, because only the people that care about the law follow it. Speeding, driving under the influence, stealing, and murdering people are already illegal, yet there are people doing these things every day. Now, this is not to say that all laws should be totally abandoned, a world WROL would suck, but to say that there should be a sharper focus on the actual sources of trouble. Don't tell Average Joe that bullying is illegal and therefore he can say nothing hurtful {because you know in that situation unpopular and hurtful would be come synonyms}. Instead tell Jack Ass that if he locks kids in the locker he will be suspended for a month.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

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contemplativeintrovert
Don't tell Average Joe that bullying is illegal and therefore he can say nothing hurtful {because you know in that situation unpopular and hurtful would be come synonyms}. Instead tell Jack Ass that if he locks kids in the locker he will be suspended for a month.

And this, my friend, is what it comes down to! I'm skeptical not only of the application of these laws but also the intent. The authorities claim the intent is to reduce bullying. Since we've already got laws on the books for the specific behaviors that encompass "bullying" (assault, battery, stalking, harassment, etc.), these laws will simply be an attempt to eliminate unpopular speech, expression, and actions that would be otherwise completely legal.

I'm all in favor of suspending Jack Ass or expelling him from school, and placing the burden of educating Jack Ass directly on his parents. But I have no faith that the law will be applied that way. And I say that knowing that the authorities have a great deal of prosecutorial discretion on their side. Jack Asses' parents aren't going to face any criminal charge. But I'll tell you who will... the passenger on a flight who expresses that he's had enough of his seat being kicked by a kid... patrons at a restaurant who express their displeasure over noisy children... and ANYONE who dares to park in spaces reserved for families.

I'm really surprised that any CF people, bullied or not, would be in favor of these laws. The authorities don't need any more power than they already have.

I was bullied and it effects me to this day in my mid 40s.
My mother was of the belief that I was the one that was bringing it on and that if I did anything to protect myself that I would get in trouble if I hit back. The beatings and humiliation continued.
My father realized what was going on. He said:
"The police can only get the story straight from the person still conscious. The guy in the gutter? He doesn't have a story."

The following day I was at a football game and one of my bullies and her toadies started to fuck with me. I warned her. And then I gave her my best right hook. This attracted the attention of some rival school girls that were looking for trouble. They asked me what happened. I told them. They then harrassed this girl to the point that she begged me to get them off her back and she never bothered me again. And the girl that was harrassing me was a teen moo to boot. Nice.

Anyway, I think the best approach for those that want their kids to enjoy a free public education on the taxpayers' dime is to do what we all have to do if we want to enjoy anything like driving a car. Liability Insurance.

Yes. You heard me. Starting in kindergarten. The policies would not cost a lot. And if your kid is as sweet and innocent as you claim they are, then you can get all that money back in premiums when they graduate, tax free, as long as it is used for higher education purposes. And if your kid isn't as sweet and innocent as you claim they are? Then their victims will get a nice chunk of cash to buy the newest smartphone or designer sneakers and your premiums will go up. And they will keep going up every time your little bully breaks the rules. Let it get to the point it is so expensive to send your kid to free public school that it would be cheaper to go to a private academy where they don't play games with bullies and they are dealt with by the teachers and administration as necessitated by policy.

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the noodler
I was bullied and it effects me to this day in my mid 40s.
My mother was of the belief that I was the one that was bringing it on and that if I did anything to protect myself that I would get in trouble if I hit back. The beatings and humiliation continued. My father realized what was going on. He said:
"The police can only get the story straight from the person still conscious. The guy in the gutter? He doesn't have a story."

The following day I was at a football game and one of my bullies and her toadies started to fuck with me. I warned her. And then I gave her my best right hook. This attracted the attention of some rival school girls that were looking for trouble. They asked me what happened. I told them. They then harrassed this girl to the point that she begged me to get them off her back and she never bothered me again. And the girl that was harrassing me was a teen moo to boot. Nice.

Good for you! I can tell you from experience that sometimes a parent or parents don't always give the best advice. Your father had it right.

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the noodler
Anyway, I think the best approach for those that want their kids to enjoy a free public education on the taxpayers' dime is to do what we all have to do if we want to enjoy anything like driving a car. Liability Insurance.

Yes. You heard me. Starting in kindergarten. The policies would not cost a lot. And if your kid is as sweet and innocent as you claim they are, then you can get all that money back in premiums when they graduate, tax free, as long as it is used for higher education purposes. And if your kid isn't as sweet and innocent as you claim they are? Then their victims will get a nice chunk of cash to buy the newest smartphone or designer sneakers and your premiums will go up. And they will keep going up every time your little bully breaks the rules. Let it get to the point it is so expensive to send your kid to free public school that it would be cheaper to go to a private academy where they don't play games with bullies and they are dealt with by the teachers and administration as necessitated by policy

An intriguing idea, but here's the hangup: You can't insure your own behavior in conjunction with a criminal act that you commit. For example: You rent a car. You purchase liability insurance through the rental car company. You crash the car while running from the police after robbing a bank. Guess what? The insurance company has no obligation to cover losses incurred during the commission of a crime.

Would this hold true for children in which you are their legal guardian? I believe it would. The chances of collusion and abuse of such a policy would be increased as well.

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StudioFiftyFour


I'm really surprised that any CF people, bullied or not, would be in favor of these laws. The authorities don't need any more power than they already have.

I am too. Sometimes people don't see the slippery slope of giving govt this type of power. These laws will not follow logic in the long run. One could press charges the normal way, or get the kid expelled. Bullying doesn't feel good, but it isn't a capital crime. The mean kids are learning how to act themselves, depending on their age of course. I was bullied in school, in fact one of the stories above could have been my experience word for word. We are all on our individual journeys, so hopefully time will heal. But I'm well over it. I have good memories of school actually. It seems even more than some of my friends that appeared not to be hassled by the bully-type kids. Letting go does set you free as they say, when the time it right for you.

I said I didn't know whether we should make new laws about bullying, not that we should definitely do it. But it could be worth considering. Normally I hate the fact that hidden cameras are everywhere these days, but one good thing they can be used for is to prove who the real bullies are. No matter how much Shitty Parent argues their little angel would never do that if there is proof on camera then little angel can be convicted. And I would not be opposed to some kind of punishment for parents who don't care what their kids do. As Stillwaters said, there is an implicit social contract that if you have a baby and keep it you will do all you can to raise it to be a decent human being.

I'm torn. Obviously bullying is a terrible thing that can lead to suicide or even homicide (Columbine, at least partially, was triggered by the mistreatment of the shooters by the "jocks" & popular girls). Nobody deserves to deal with bullying and it's very satisfying to see bullies young & old get their due karma. VERY satisfying.

On the other hand, bullying is something that exists in the workplace & other parts of adult life as well & there aren't any laws against blatant rudeness, excluding people, laughing at people, gossiping, snapping at someone or other forms of bullying in Real World AdultLand. I honestly think bullying is one of those disgusting human traits that has always been with us and will probably always be. Does that make it acceptable? No. We should definitely do things to punish bullies & deter repeat offenses. But I'm not sure locking up parents is a viable solution. Maybe it is. Who knows.

Kids are gonna laugh at each other & be little assholes (in 6th grade, my friends & I would spend lunchtime coming up with elaborate insults about each others' appearance "just for fun") but if it escalates to major online harassment campaigns or humiliation, somebody needs to pay. If a teacher or other faculty is aware & does nothing, THEY should face charges as well as the parents. Teachers are more likely to witness bullying since it usually happens in school so I'm not sure why this is aimed just at parents. I'm sure bullying also happens in church, summer camp & other such places as well. I'd hope the adults in charge there would be held accountable too.