Don't want a baby but your boyfriend does? You're too young to decide.

Mariella gives us so much material. A woman writes in about her boyfriend, whom she thought was CF, having changed his mind, and the question of what this means for the relationship. Mariella responds with a predictable bingo, telling her not to make up her mind just yet. This is despite the woman writing "He believes time will change my mind (he is 31 and I am 22), but I know myself." The woman does sound slightly like a fence-sitter as she wants to believe she will change her mind, but still, that's the best advice Mariella can give her?

Is it only me, or is society really going backwards?

Here we are on the eve of 2018, and women still don't have complete control of their reproductive decisions. Besides women's lack of complete access to abortion and contracepton, now she should consider having her boyfriend's child, even if she is childfree, because she shouldn't have any choice in the matter doesn't know her own mind.

If we want women to have complete bodily agency and full participation in society, then attitudes like this must stop. That includes constant bingoing women who don't want kids.

What's next, forced pregnancies by government agencies?

Quote
Peace
If we want women to have complete bodily agency and full participation in society, then attitudes like this must stop. That includes constant bingoing women who don't want kids.

Yeah, I recently saw a video on YouTube by a woman (Oneika the Traveller: Get out of my uterus) telling people to stop asking women when they're going to have babies. Because obviously, people are still far too concerned about what's in my uterus.

Why is this still a thing?

first thing that catches my eye is the age difference. this is a major factor: I think the stats are bearing this out: we are seeing (or did see) an increase of these moo cows being younger and the sperm donors being older. This could be a subject for dissertation here as well.
However, I would disagree with the 'know our minds'. We have seen enough people change their minds in both directions. However, we all know the pressure, immense pressure to follow the lemmings over the cliff into the shit pile.
We are not the same individuals at age 28 than age 18. Which accounts for the number of stupid teenage moo sows. They are so willing to drink the kool aid. And, when they hit 24, are sick and tired of the progeny they were proudly displaying 5 or so years previously. Which leads to the matter I think underlying this: should they be 'controlled' to try and prevent some of this stupidity? This is where the old fashioned (traditional) methods of dating factored in. It is an attempt to head off the disasters these little girls and boys seem to be so willing and hell bent to dive right into (does the pool have water even???). It is I think a real dilemma. I think we do kids and teenagers a disservice sometimes by telling them they can make 'adult' decisions when many of these decisions can be disastrous. And when the decision involves a child, frankly, it pisses me off. (because the child bears the brunt of it.) we all know the drill here...

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

Quote
Peace

What's next, forced pregnancies by government agencies?

In my opinion, any kind of restriction on contraception or abortion is a forced pregnancy by government. I go one step further and say that we must fund contraception and abortion with tax dollars because we already fund things like WIC and welfare. We have sufficient tax revenue to be able to fund it. Lack of financial responsibility by our elected officials is not a valid reason to not fund reproductive choices, which cost a fraction of what a single child birth does.

I have been on the "other side" of this situation. I was the BF who did not want a kid while GF did. The only thing that has ever worked for me was to discontinue the relationship. No amount of reasoning, counseling, happy CF couples or anything else that may come to mind, none of that ever worked. Once a breeder decides to breed, they do not usually stop. I have seen a few lucky cases where a breeder turned CF, but I think I have seen more PowerBall winners than breeders who turned CF.

Quote

The only thing that has ever worked for me was to discontinue the relationship. No amount of reasoning, counseling, happy CF couples or anything else that may come to mind, none of that ever worked. Once a breeder decides to breed, they do not usually stop. I have seen a few lucky cases where a breeder turned CF, but I think I have seen more PowerBall winners than breeders who turned CF.

Word. She needs to dump him immediately.

She has been with him since she was 19. Frankly I blame the dude. He is 31 years old---old enough to know what he wants. He should have known before, but since he pursued a relationship with her, he should have the maturity to break up with her and not do it in a nasty way.

But if he's like most Breeders, he'll just nag her until she gives in. Most Breeders think there is nothing wrong with nagging their partner to get what they want when it comes to kidz. (Or just doing it anyway--i.e. womben who "forget" the birth control.)

I was sadly shocked and stunned to hear this type of remark from my sister. She always claimed to be CF in her 20s and early 30s. But she "mysteriously" found she couldn't take the Pill (it was the 1970s).So she relied on the diaphragm. Then she "mysteriously" had an "oops" with a REALLY nice boyfriend she lived with. He assumed she'd have an abortion and made it clear he did not want the baby, so she aborted. Then she got involved with a married man ("He is going to leave his wife, but.."). She was awaiting another abortion when she miscarried. Then she got involved with a pretty nice guy, but he wanted to leave the area to pursue his dream musical career. So on the night he was about to leave, another "oops" apparently happened.
Since she was by now 35, she feared she'd "never have another chance to have a bayybee", so decided to keep it one way or the other. When she finally told him, he seemed happy and eager to have the kid. He came home,they got married,he got his first "real job", and supported them for a couple of decades. Once the,admittedly, very nice kid was grown, through college and married, he IMMEDIATELY revealed that he had found his college love on facebook, and was leaving!
So, now her daughter and SIL say they are CF . But she happily says' Oh, if they have an oops they will make great parents!"Where is the emoji for tearing out your hair??!!

The “make great parents” line is a popular one and works because of the implied flattery. I heard it a few times myself, not sure if DH ever heard it. Probably not, since few people think a man must have kyds to make his life complete. The letter-writer sounds like she knows her own mind and needs to break up with wannabe baby-daddy. Better now than to give in and be miserable for who knows how many years.

I don't understand advice that advises you to overlook a fatal compatibility flaw and keep dating for years JUST IN CASE you feel the same way years down the line.

The default in these situations should be breaking up. Five years down the line if one of them has changed and they are on the same page, then they could get back together. I guess this woman is afraid he'll find someone else to breed with. (Which he probably will. No big loss.)

Quote
bell_flower
I don't understand advice that advises you to overlook a fatal compatibility flaw and keep dating for years JUST IN CASE you feel the same way years down the line.

And of course, it is only where kids are concerned, because "you might change your mind!" that the advice comes from people who aren't widely considered deranged. Only misguided 'love conquers all' types will advise you give it another five years when it is a religious incompatibility "because you might change your religion!" or goals mismatch "because she might start taking an interest in her career" or attitude disagreement "because someday he'll stop partying and start saving!" And what all this advice has in common is that it completely disrespects one person in the equation, by assuming that they will change so as to become a completely different, acceptable person.

It's reasonable to expect that there will be changes and compromises on small disagreements, but continuing a relationship on the assumption that a person will fundamentally change in a major way is delusion.

Quote
yurble

Quote
bell_flower
I don't understand advice that advises you to overlook a fatal compatibility flaw and keep dating for years JUST IN CASE you feel the same way years down the line.

And of course, it is only where kids are concerned, because "you might change your mind!" that the advice comes from people who aren't widely considered deranged. Only misguided 'love conquers all' types will advise you give it another five years when it is a religious incompatibility "because you might change your religion!" or goals mismatch "because she might start taking an interest in her career" or attitude disagreement "because someday he'll stop partying and start saving!" And what all this advice has in common is that it completely disrespects one person in the equation, by assuming that they will change so as to become a completely different, acceptable person.

It's reasonable to expect that there will be changes and compromises on small disagreements, but continuing a relationship on the assumption that a person will fundamentally change in a major way is delusion.

I have lots of experience with women who share these mindsets. I've also had the weather blamed on me by such nutcases as well as theft and other such nonsense. Best advice is if you know someone this deranged stay as far away as you can before they become hysterical and point the finger at you. Unfortunately this delusion is quite common in the bible belt.

It's easy for men to want kids.

Quote
blackpearl
It's easy for men to want kids.

Yes, but allow me to add. It's easy for men who have little to lose. Those of us with jobs, businesses and investment incomes, we don't want to write a $200,000 check for each miracle. In our case, it's easy for women to want kids.

I think the less income that a man has, the less he has to lose if he breeds.

If he pressures a woman to have kids he’d better be ready to pay.

Quote
blackpearl
If he pressures a woman to have kids he’d better be ready to pay.

I have a suspicion that the guy in this case, he is not able to pay. He is looking for someone to have his kid and pay for it all herself.

In my personal experience, there are always women who want to breed. They just want a man to contribute financially. This guy here probably does not have 2 dimes to rub together, so he resorts to playing dirty.

Quote
cj
The “make great parents” line is a popular one and works because of the implied flattery.

I don't think anyone has ever told me I'd make a great parent. I've still had people criticize my being CF, though. So what does that tell you?

Quote
Techie
I have a suspicion that the guy in this case, he is not able to pay. He is looking for someone to have his kid and pay for it all herself.

In my personal experience, there are always women who want to breed. They just want a man to contribute financially. This guy here probably does not have 2 dimes to rub together, so he resorts to playing dirty.

In this case she should run and not look back. It is enough that he pressures her into having a kid she doesn't want but not wanting to contribute in any way is outraging. It's easy for him to want the kid because if he gets tired of everything he can leave anyways and if he doesn't have money i don't know if he would be obliged to pay.

Quote
kittehpeoples

I don't think anyone has ever told me I'd make a great parent. I've still had people criticize my being CF, though. So what does that tell you?

I've been told I'd make a great mother. I suspect "cis female" was the only criteria for the 'compliment', however. At least, I hope so, because the other option that is visible to strangers (racial background) is even more disturbing.

Quote
kittehpeoples

Quote
cj
The “make great parents” line is a popular one and works because of the implied flattery.

I don't think anyone has ever told me I'd make a great parent. I've still had people criticize my being CF, though. So what does that tell you?

Maybe you could explain to them being CF is the best thing in the world and every day that you wake up and don't have to make a meal for a child is the best day of your life? Or have to deal with a nagging little terror who wakes you up at 4 in the morning just "cuz." Or that you cannot list any Disney movie made in the last 5 years let alone recite any verbatim? Or you can have wine with every meal you eat if you so choose?

Maybe you haven't spent enough time around hard-core lifescripters? They like to say this to everyone under 60 who doesn't have a kid. I've also heard it said to little girls as young as toadler age by stupid moos who see them taking care of babydolls. No, stoopid moo. Taking care of a plastic doll is nothing like a real baybee, can't abandon it in the back of a toy box because you're bored with it and expect it to be the same in 2 weeks. I can't bear to be in the same room as a bunch of moos or duhs who push this onto young impressionable children. Let the kyds figure out who they are and what they want to do with their lives at their own pace. I think it is just word vomit for people who have replaced their brains with tv and commercials.