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Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning

Posted by Techie 
Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 05, 2018
Here on this board, we often had discussions if bio clock is even real. I think the general consensus is that it is not real. This article here discusses the subject and it concludes that bio clock is simply something that a person believes and if a person believes it, they sometimes are able to feel it. It is a well known fact that one can make themselves feel sick if they believe that they are sick. I tend to think that biological clock works in a similar way.

http://werenothavingababy.com/childfree/biological-clocks-the-magical-mind-changers-of-the-childfree/?utm_content=buffer15b60&utm_medium=social&utm

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Biological clocks are not ticking time bombs waiting to take over our abilities to control our own desires and plans. Sure, the biological clock is real in the sense that it’s really true that as they age, women’s – and men’s! – fertility declines. But this “clock” does not cause us to change our minds about wanting to become parents (or not).

Instead, something just as powerful as biology – how we’re socialized – may drive some previously childfree people to decide they want to become parents after all. That’s right. The mystical force driving some people to want to parent is social, not genetic.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 05, 2018
I'm going to be fifty this year and I've never experienced a biological clock. I always thought it was BS. Granted, I was often pressured by my family to sluice, but I just kind of laughed it off and told them there was no way. I've always had a strong mind in that department.

Now that I'm older, I thank my lucky stars that I never caved. I don't know how many people who are now stuck in the "Grandparents Role" and they fuckin' hate it. All I can say to them is, "Sucks to be you!" grinning smiley
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 05, 2018
I think if you do get pregnant, it can mess with your hormones and really fuck things up. It's never been me, thankfully, but I've heard women who went on to get abortions talk about having all kinds of mixed up feelings until the hormones flushed.

So I imagine other cases where hormones are in flux, such as menopause or coming off hormonal contraceptive, a person might experience something similar.

Yet, I think for every 1 case of hormone-induced baby cravings, there are probably 100 socially induced cases. I've certainly never had any baby rabies.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 05, 2018
I agree that in some cases hormones might be at play but I think in the majority of cases, self fulfilling prophecy is likely at work.

I think another proof that bio clock is really a societal conditioning, is that several sources claim that men have bio clocks kicking in too. Men have no hormonal balance that is affected by a period or a menopause. What they do have is a status symbol of being a responsible family man by a certain age. Those men insist on breeding and disregard all reason.

Most CF men that I encountered, they look at other duhs and thank the higher powers that it is not them who were "chosen for the task".
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 05, 2018
I just remembered another way that society conditions people to breed. If I had a dollar for every time that a man, who refuses to breed, is told: "So, you like milk but don't want to buy the cow?" Translation: if a man refuses to breed than he is a freeloader and just uses women.

I will not get into what kind of verbal abuse women get, because it is all over this board. If a woman tells a mother that she does not want to breed, hell breaks lose.

Then, there is: "You are going to regret this" Some people do but most don't. Some people regret not owning an exotic sports car, I don't. Why? To me, they are not important.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 05, 2018
Interesting. I have quite a few (more than seems average) CF/CL friends, plus my sister; only one of them experienced the bio clock going off, and she was the only one of us who had ever wanted kids (for excellent reasons) but chose not to have them (also for excellent reasons). Kind of lends to the theory that it's societal/emotional-- those of us who've always been sure about it have never wavered.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 06, 2018
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Techie
I just remembered another way that society conditions people to breed. If I had a dollar for every time that a man, who refuses to breed, is told: "So, you like milk but don't want to buy the cow?" Translation: if a man refuses to breed than he is a freeloader and just uses women.

I thought that phrase was generally used to refer to men who don't want to get married. Now it is used to refer to not wanting to breed?

I object to both uses, with what they imply about female sexuality. It's on both partners to communicate how they feel about marriage and children, to listen to what their partners are saying, and then to make a decision about the relationship based on the compatibility of aims.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 06, 2018
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yurble
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Techie
I just remembered another way that society conditions people to breed. If I had a dollar for every time that a man, who refuses to breed, is told: "So, you like milk but don't want to buy the cow?" Translation: if a man refuses to breed than he is a freeloader and just uses women.

I thought that phrase was generally used to refer to men who don't want to get married. Now it is used to refer to not wanting to breed?

I object to both uses, with what they imply about female sexuality. It's on both partners to communicate how they feel about marriage and children, to listen to what their partners are saying, and then to make a decision about the relationship based on the compatibility of aims.

Breeding is the new form of "commitment". Simple old school minds have learned that nobody buys into marrage idea anymore, it is now breeding.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 06, 2018
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Techie
Quote
yurble
I thought that phrase was generally used to refer to men who don't want to get married. Now it is used to refer to not wanting to breed?

I object to both uses, with what they imply about female sexuality. It's on both partners to communicate how they feel about marriage and children, to listen to what their partners are saying, and then to make a decision about the relationship based on the compatibility of aims.

Breeding is the new form of "commitment". Simple old school minds have learned that nobody buys into marrage idea anymore, it is now breeding.

Because being a babydaddy is the ultimate in commitment. thinks someone else is crazy
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 06, 2018
"Biological Clock" simple means personal desire manifesting itself. It's not a whole lot different than a person who has always wanted a Porsche finally saving enough cash to buy one.

Questioning the existence of this mythical clock is taboo, of course. And I've seen women face such questions regarding it.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 07, 2018
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StudioFiftyFour
"Biological Clock" simple means personal desire manifesting itself. It's not a whole lot different than a person who has always wanted a Porsche finally saving enough cash to buy one.

Questioning the existence of this mythical clock is taboo, of course. And I've seen women face such questions regarding it.
.

I agree 100%. To me, it sounds like breeding is like a religion that is not supposed to be questioned by anyone at any time. We know what happened to those who questioned religion in dark ages. At best, those people were called insane. Today, anyone who questions breeding urges, they are not called very nice names.

Just like people have a "good" reason to spend $5000 on a Super Bowl ticket, people find a "good" reason to why they need a Porsche or why they need to breed. I have heard anything from people saying that God was talking to them or that it was their calling.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 08, 2018
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Techie
Quote
StudioFiftyFour
"Biological Clock" simple means personal desire manifesting itself. It's not a whole lot different than a person who has always wanted a Porsche finally saving enough cash to buy one.

Questioning the existence of this mythical clock is taboo, of course. And I've seen women face such questions regarding it.
.

I agree 100%. To me, it sounds like breeding is like a religion that is not supposed to be questioned by anyone at any time. We know what happened to those who questioned religion in dark ages. At best, those people were called insane. Today, anyone who questions breeding urges, they are not called very nice names.

Just like people have a "good" reason to spend $5000 on a Super Bowl ticket, people find a "good" reason to why they need a Porsche or why they need to breed. I have heard anything from people saying that God was talking to them or that it was their calling.


Yep... but there's one significant difference: those who purchase expensive event tickets and fancy cars aren't asking their friends for hundreds of dollars worth of gifts every year, nor are they obtaining 18 years worth of taxpayer subsidies to help finance the cost of those items.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 08, 2018
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StudioFiftyFour
Yep... but there's one significant difference: those who purchase expensive event tickets and fancy cars aren't asking their friends for hundreds of dollars worth of gifts every year, nor are they obtaining 18 years worth of taxpayer subsidies to help finance the cost of those items.

Ouch, you are speaking the truth and truth hurts... Even if a parent files a 1040 and does not itemize taxes in any way, they still get child tax credit, their tax is still reduced, there is no way to avoid it unless the one who files the form chooses to not take the credit, which, will not happen. So, 100% yes, we are paying for kids of others through higher income tax. In addition, for those of us who pay property tax, we pay for schools that we do not use.

With all of the talk of carbon footprint and carbon credits, CF people are the ones who should be paid carbon credits, since by not reproducing, we do not add as much to carbon footprint as those who do reproduce. We should be the ones getting the tax breaks.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 08, 2018
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Techie

With all of the talk of carbon footprint and carbon credits, CF people are the ones who should be paid carbon credits, since by not reproducing, we do not add as much to carbon footprint as those who do reproduce. We should be the ones getting the tax breaks.


Why would the powers that be give YOU a tax credit? You aren't producing the next generation. And conventional wisdom states that the next generation is bound to "solve" the problem of climate change!

And they're going to do it all with solar panels, wind farms, and driving a Toyota Prius. No sacrifices in First World lifestyles required!
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 08, 2018
"Biological clock" is a blanket excuse for several things that lead to deciding to have a baby, but mostly I've seen it used to cover for social conditioning and female sex drive.

Social conditioning...we've discussed this all over this board. I think that women are hit hardest because it starts when you're a preschooler expected to play with dolls, but the way that the role of men has changed has brought a lot of pressure to bear on men, too.

Sex drive: when women pass about the 28 to 30 age mark, their hormone profile starts to shift. Estrogen slowly starts to drop each year, which kinda 'unmasks' the underlying testosterone. T stays at its usual level, just seems higher because of the drop in other hormones. So some women experience an uptick in sex drive, and see this as "wow, my body wants to have a baby!", when it's really just "wow, my body wants to fuck!". My theory, anyway.

And Techie, I agree with you about reproduction being the new "commitment". A lot of people have figured out that they aren't down for the whole marriage thing for various reasons, but still want to commit to someone. And for some reason, they're still buying into the idea of scrambling their DNA. Doesn't make sense.

ETA: but there's also the bizarro backflip of that...people who have asked me why my husband and I got married, since we're not having kids. So I guess there's no way out, huh.
Re: Bio clock is a result of societal conditioning
February 18, 2018
"Biological clock" is indeed a socialization issue, not biological.

I turned 50 last Nov. and never experienced a "biological clock" in my entire life.
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