Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 9,180 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 499 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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Overcome your own transphobia. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Accept the lived truth of NB and GNC people, whether or not they are women.
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Support subsidized birth control. Support women’s healthcare. Support women’s preventative healthcare. Support medical trials that include (or even prioritize) women.
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Support nontaxed menstrual products. Ask your workplace if tampons and pads are free. If they’re not, advocate for them to be free. Get over any embarrassment you may have about menstruation.
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Vocally advocate at your workplace for longer and more egalitarian paid parental leave, whether or not parenthood is part of your life. Advocate for lactation spaces. Advocate for on-site or subsidized childcare.
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Tell your elected officials that you are a man who votes and you prioritize women’s issues when you decide who to vote for. Then actually prioritize women’s issues when you decide who to vote for. Understand that women’s issues are your issues.
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Whenever you are in a group composed of only men (whether it’s social, work, church, or whatever) ask yourself why there are no women present. Then ask out loud why. Force an honest answer.
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Cultivate genuine, intimate, nonsexual friendships with women.
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Deprogram your beliefs about thinness being an optimal state of feminine beauty. Deprogram your beliefs that your desire matters in determining a woman’s worth.
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Jerk off without porn for a while. EDIT: This really should be “Pay for your porn.” In particular, seek out (and pay for) porn that’s made by women, queer people, and people of color, and that’s produced ethically. Consume sexual culture as thoughtfully as you would consume any culture. (Thanks to Jillian and others for helping me reframe this.)
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Detach yourself from straw-man definitions for hot-button issues (intersectionality, cultural appropriation, political correctness, preferred pronouns, etc.) and learn what they’re really about. Unpack the real meanings behind phrases like “SJW” and “feminazi.” Believe people when they say they’re in pain.
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Prioritize kindness.
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Befriend children.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,797 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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mumofsixbirds
I think the "MeToo" movement started out with good intentions, but it's morphing into ridiculous bullshit. When I first heard about it, I thought that it would have the potential to make the public become "Judge, jury and executioner" of people who are unable to defend themselves. There's a Canadian politician, his name eludes me now, who wound up being accused and his career is now ruined. It turns out that the accusation was false.
I've read some feminist articles about how this movement could potentially set women back in the workplace and turn us into perpetual victims if this trend continues. If I could find the website again, I'll link it here. I've read it and it makes a lot of sense.
I do know that there has been a lot of sexual misconduct that has been thankfully exposed, such as Roy Moore, but there have been innocent people taken down as well.
I am a victim of sexual assault and I don't see this as a good thing. I think that things can be taken out of context. I also don't think that a man touching a woman's arm in the workplace is the same as a true victim who has been physically sexually raped. Sure, it may be uncomfortable and squicky, but I can honestly say I've been on the receiving end of some flirtation in my working life, not when I was a PSO, but working in a medical office. It wasn't really a big deal, and I handled it appropriately. Being fucking raped by a family member multiple times when you're helpless is a whole 'nother thing.
Please don't mind my mixed thoughts. I was up late last night and had a few drinks. Feeling a little hung over today.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 3,003 |
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mumofsixbirds
I think the "MeToo" movement started out with good intentions, but it's morphing into ridiculous bullshit. When I first heard about it, I thought that it would have the potential to make the public become "Judge, jury and executioner" of people who are unable to defend themselves. There's a Canadian politician, his name eludes me now, who wound up being accused and his career is now ruined. It turns out that the accusation was false.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 24, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,797 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 25, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,425 |
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contemplativeintrovert
I care about;
Not being raped / sexually assaulted, women in general not being raped / sexually assaulted, stricter punishments for perpetrators of rape / sexual assault, equal pay, social equality {The misogynistic things I’ve heard ranges from ‘women should know their place,’ to ‘rape is natural,’ ‘rape happens for a reason,’ ‘and rape should be legal.’}
As a female I DON’T care about
People being friendly to children in general {I’m not because I don’t like them.}, lactating spaces, paid Moo leave {I’m anti population growth}, anything about the welfare of children,
Equating women’s issues with mothers issues delegitimizates women’s issues. Dismantling the patriarchy boils down to ‘having a dck doesn’t make you better, stop acting like it and stop harassing us,’ NOT ‘having a child makes you better, idolize children.’
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 25, 2018 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 585 |
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I think the "MeToo" movement started out with good intentions, but it's morphing into ridiculous bullshit. When I first heard about it, I thought that it would have the potential to make the public become "Judge, jury and executioner" of people who are unable to defend themselves. There's a Canadian politician, his name eludes me now, who wound up being accused and his career is now ruined. It turns out that the accusation was false.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 25, 2018 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 499 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 26, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,425 |
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contemplativeintrovert
@Yurble,
I completely agree. I think I misspoke, it was an instance of not seeing the trees for the forest. Sorry, that was my bad.
I also agree that more should be done to make abortions and sterilizations safe, legal, affordable, and destigmatized. I remember reading that some of the users on here had their doctors try to convince them that they might “change their mind,” ridiculous. If someone is seeking sterilization, their mind is made up.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 26, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 3,003 |
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yurble
Is there any woman on this board who has been sterilized who hasn't been told they might change their minds? I was thinking back on mine recently because a friend was asking for advice on how to pursue her own, and while the docs didn't try all that hard, they did try to claim I was young. While simultaneously pushing for a hormonal IUD because I'd need one soon anyway, to regulate menopause. So which is it, am I too young to end my fertility deliberately, or are my eggs rotten with age?
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,425 |
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cassia
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yurble
Is there any woman on this board who has been sterilized who hasn't been told they might change their minds? I was thinking back on mine recently because a friend was asking for advice on how to pursue her own, and while the docs didn't try all that hard, they did try to claim I was young. While simultaneously pushing for a hormonal IUD because I'd need one soon anyway, to regulate menopause. So which is it, am I too young to end my fertility deliberately, or are my eggs rotten with age?
I have had both a tubal and ablation.
Even though I went to a Catholic hospital, I got no hassles at all.
I was prepared for arguments and hassles.
My surgeon was the head of the department.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,554 |
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StudioFiftyFour
That article was nothing but SJW authoritarian nonsense. I'll break it down point by point, from my point of view, of course...Quote
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Overcome your own transphobia. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Accept the lived truth of NB and GNC people, whether or not they are women.
No they are not. People with penises are not women. People with vaginas are not men. Cutting body parts off or sewing artificial ones on doesn't change that fact. Neither does drugging oneself with steroids or hormones. When a person says what is true, that does not indicate that they have a phobia of some sort.
That being said, every person has every right to dress however they please, take whatever drugs they want, and partake in elective surgeries (at their own cost). And they should be treated with courtesy and decency. But they do not have the right to demand that the rest of us partake in their fantasies. Courtesy is a two-way street.
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Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,351 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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craftyzits
On this I must disagree with you. Tests on transmen and transwomen have shown that their brains are different from women and men. These tests showed that the brain actually decides if your female, or male. In a transman, you will see a male brain inside a female body. Transwomen have male brains. Your gender's between your ears.
The human gender and genitals are decided when a baby is an embryo. Sometimes, things zig when they should zag and gender can get a little tumbled, or a lot tumbled in babies who are born intersexed (born with male and female genitals).
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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kittehpeoples
I hate the idea of moos co-opting the metoo movement's efforts as much as I disliked when men tried to do it, too. You're all right that equating womanhood with motherhood demeans us.
(Yes, I know men get sexually assaulted, and it is equally terible. But this movement isn't/wasn't about men, yet there were some, insisting that women stand aside and let them be heard. In other words, just another Tuesday....)
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,554 |
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StudioFiftyFour
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craftyzits
On this I must disagree with you. Tests on transmen and transwomen have shown that their brains are different from women and men. These tests showed that the brain actually decides if your female, or male. In a transman, you will see a male brain inside a female body. Transwomen have male brains. Your gender's between your ears.
The human gender and genitals are decided when a baby is an embryo. Sometimes, things zig when they should zag and gender can get a little tumbled, or a lot tumbled in babies who are born intersexed (born with male and female genitals).
Let's assume you are correct. What you are stating is that whatever a person thinks is essentially, empirical truth. (This, in spite of every cell containing male or female DNA, specifically.)
My contention lies not within a person's belief structure, but in (some) people's insistence that society be turned upside-down to accommodate a belief structure that is empirically untrue. If a woman wants to dress like a man, or vice versa, or get hormone therapy, cosmetic surgery, whatever... I'm good with that. I think people need to pursue happiness as they see fit. The problem lies when anyone (of ANY sexual preference, gender, race, whatever....) insists that others must go along with and validate their beliefs.
There are people in society who believe that they are Santa Claus, important political figures, and celebrities. And yes, they truly believe this. The electrical impulses in their brains are telling them that this is true. Would you agree that their belief is empirically untrue? Would you argue that the rest of society should simply go along with it? If so... why?
And if a person can be (legally) transgendered... what about trans-racial? Trans-age? Trans-species? I'm not making the case that these examples should be permitted, but from an ethical and legal standpoint I can't see how you can have one legal standing (transgender) but not these others, particularly when the belief comes from within one's own consciousness, and not one's DNA.
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There are people in society who believe that they are Santa Claus, important political figures, and celebrities. And yes, they truly believe this. The electrical impulses in their brains are telling them that this is true. Would you agree that their belief is empirically untrue? Would you argue that the rest of society should simply go along with it? If so... why?
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 499 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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contemplative introvert
No, we can’t arrest people or take legal action against people based on allegations alone. But on the other hand, I resent the allegations by some I’ve spoken to that assumes, by default, that the women are always lying. My dad, raving misogynist that he is, said that “women should stop laying on their backs to get ahead and then claiming they were raped.” Nice guy, is it any wonder I moved out at 19? This belief system grates on me for two reasons. First, as an asexual person, and as a female, I find it repulsive that so little is thought of women {I know not all people believe this} that it is assumed that the default is women putting themselves out.
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contemplativeintrovert
It is absolutely repulsive that people exist that seem to think women exist for nothing but sex. It not only promotes heteronormativity {Within the scope of the #metoo movement, I have not heard of women assaulted by lesbians, gays, or asexuals}, but it also ignores the fact that women have actual abilities and talents, and that just maybe they earned their place, but were assaulted anyway.
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contemplativeintrovert
I also don’t like that so much hair splitting is going on. If someone gets you drunk or drugs you, and sleeps with you, that’s still rape. I also dislike the implication that all of this is just regret. Is it not possible that some of these people were actually assaulted?
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contemplativeintrovert
Finally, interpersonal relationships are complex. Supervisor x subordinate, 19 year old x 16 year old, and teacher x student relationships are, rightly, frowned upon because they come from a place of inequality. While any of these intimate relationships isn’t ALWAYS rape, there is an implicit level of coercion there, because the decision to be in the relationship isn’t being made from a stance of equality. Finally, the whole disagreement bothers me because it places the guilt on the women. Why is it easier for society to say “the woman is PROBABLY lying,” than to say “the man MIGHT be a sleaze?” Maybe my perspective is because I am asexual, but personally I wouldn’t lie about something like that.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,797 |
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 499 |
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StudioFiftyFour
Who is to say you wouldn't lie? Or I wouldn't lie? I'm not gay but what if I wanted to file a false sexual harassment charge against a gay colleague who I didn't like? Human beings are fallible. And they lie. And they cheat. And they do unethical things for money. Asexual/Bisexual/Straight/Gay/Transgender/Christian/Jewish/Mormon/White/Black/Etc.... you name the demographic, all are capable of lying. And the best way to get to the truth is to keep an open mind AND a skeptical outlook. Examine all parties and then cross examine them, and follow the preponderance of the evidence.
As an asexual I believe you have the same rights--the most pertinent one being the right to refuse friendship, dates, sex, affection, whatever. And you should never be harassed at work, same as everyone else.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 27, 2018 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 9,180 |
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They can't fuck Harvey Weinstein in order to profit financially from his movies, then turn around years later after they've earned $millions and claim that they are victims. It doesn't work that way. I'm all for blowing the whistle on bad behavior... but you can't take the $$$ first and then blow the whistle. That's being a hypocrite.
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 28, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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contemplativeintrovert
Well, I wouldn’t lie about that because being assaulted would make me feel disgusted. I’m not saying asexuals in general, or even myself in particular, never lie. I try not to lie, for instance when SIL asked why I was mad at her I told her in no uncertain terms, even though it made my brother basically disown me for over a year. Now, I’m just as fallible as anyone else, but I wouldn’t lie about this, because being assaulted isn’t an idea I would conceive in my head to lie about, it disgusts me so much.
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contemplativeintrovert
Also, I can’t speak for everyone, but in my experience people typically lie in ways that make them sound better than they are, not worse. People lie about getting good baseball scores, or being popular with the opposite sex, or they lie about donating to charity. I guess my question is, why would these women be lying? I don’t believe they are because I see no motivation for them to. I’m not saying people are infallible or never lie, I’m just saying when people do lie it’s usually for a reason, and not about* certain things .
Re: Breeders co-opt the "Me Too" movement February 28, 2018 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,308 |
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bell_flower
I get sick of hearing (not necessarily you, Stu) people say, "why didn't these women speak up? They went along with it and enriched their careers." Some women didn't speak up, although nobody wants to admit it, and there were probably some women who went along with it to get into a couple of movies and establish themselves, and then felt they had enough career clout to say no. I think there was a percentage of women who went along with it because quite simply it was the price of being famous. Not right by any means, and the pervert who set it up is truly evil, and he's the one who should be blamed. ESPECIALLY since speaking out or refusing was swiftly punished. Look at Courtney Love, who dared to make one semi-joking but true remark about Weinstein and was banned from the CAA for life, because how dare anyone say anything against politically connected, Saint Harvey. (I personally wonder about Meryl Streep, Jessica Chastain and Jennifer Lawrence, who all seem a little too silent, but I digress.)
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bell_flower
There are countless of stories of him acting like an obnoxious entitled pig, his assistants supplying him with Viagra and women, him arranging "business meetings," with young starlets where he would show up naked, etc.