Jahi McMath back in the news

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Holy gamole! Will this freak show never end? Now the parents refuse to do another brain death test on the ground it would hurt the health of lil' corpsie. Someone needs to step in, shut off the machines and bury the poor kid.

What I want to know, is who's paying for all this?

This farce reminds me of the Alfie Evans case going on here in Liverpool. The poor kid has been in a coma for more than half of his almost 2 years of life, and his parents are so far in Denial they're pretty close to Narnia.

Yes it's hard for them to let their kid go, but what is their plan for him when his brain is non-responsive? Are they gonna keep him in a coma until he's old enough to be transferred to an adult hospital? Keep the charade going just so the parents don't have to be sad? Only letting the doctors pull the plug when the parents themselves are on their deathbeds?

Death sucks, I get that, but it's about quality of life - what kind of life is that, being hooked up to machines, stuck in a vegetative state, possibly in great pain and discomfort?

Moo is all about the hystronics.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

There's no better source of udder-rubs than an attention-whoring Moo, with a kid-corpse in a high-tech, hospital version of a Bain Marie.

I wonder if moo will continue this charade when Bloaty McCorpse finally ruptures decomp all over Udder-rub moo... Probably, will use it as proof that she's 'alive', as she's 'burping/farting/pooping/exploding!'.

Death denial is a powerful thing. Poor kid has no life to speak of. The parents need to shut down the machines and release her from this so-called life. Kid's not gonna suddenly wake up and be okay.

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craftyzits
Moo is all about the hystronics.

No, she is all about the Benjamin$$.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

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nokidsandhappy
There's no better source of udder-rubs than an attention-whoring Moo, with a kid-corpse in a high-tech, hospital version of a Bain Marie.

I wonder if moo will continue this charade when Bloaty McCorpse finally ruptures decomp all over Udder-rub moo... Probably, will use it as proof that she's 'alive', as she's 'burping/farting/pooping/exploding!'.

I'm thinking she's caught between life and death, her body technically still 'alive' even though it is a machine's version of 'life,' a man-made biological process that is a pale imitation of the real thing.

They have to accept that she's gone. It's not respecting her as a person keeping her this way, and I wonder if she wouldn't recoil at the notion of being a braindead husk kept tethered to a machine to give a semblance of 'life.'

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lurker-derp
Death sucks, I get that, but it's about quality of life - what kind of life is that, being hooked up to machines, stuck in a vegetative state, possibly in great pain and discomfort?

Pretty sure she's brain dead and therefore not suffering. It's just a colossal waste of resources that could be used to help someone who is actually suffering.

The New Yorker has some really good, in-depth coverage on this topic.

As most often happens when things get this far, it's a complicated mess with many root causes.

If the article is to be believed, the hospital ignored the kid was bleeding for hours. According to the lawyer in the article, the surgeon noted the kid's carotid artery was close to her pharynx and probably easily nicked, but this was not indicated in her bedside record, which could have caused the nurses to think the bleeding wasn't a concern until it was too late.

The mother alleges callous treatment by the hospital. Pissed off people file lawsuits. The Big Mac story or the story where the kid was given something to eat by the family is not mentioned in the article. (The mother does say the nurse gave her a popsicle.) Who knows if that's true.

The article raises some disturbing history regarding the medical definition of death. Life-extending technology has made this issue harder of course. Doctors from Harvard, a lawyer, a historian and a bioethicist essentially created a definition in the late 1960's that said if the brain was dead, a person was dead, and the basis for this decision was organ harvesting for other people, because this was a burgeoning science at that time. Any thinking person would find this troubling, and some ethicists do.

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from the article, reference the definition of brain death = death
The philosopher Peter Singer described it as “a concept so desirable in its consequences that it is unthinkable to give up, and so shaky on its foundations that it can scarcely be supported.” The new death was “an ethical choice masquerading as a medical fact,” he wrote.

The definition was revised in the 1980's and it also focuses on brain activity.

Reputable doctors have examined the kid and concluded that part of her brain is indeed working. And she has started menstruating, which indicates she has some brain activity in her hypothalamus. And it does appear she can move her fingers on command.

However, that makes me have a big eyeroll and because what's next, impregnation? This kid is in an apartment being cared for 24/7 by nurses(courtesy of Medicaid of NJ) and she has no life. However, her brain is not totally dead:

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more from the article
On the scans, Machado observed that Jahi’s brain stem was nearly destroyed. The nerve fibres that connect the brain’s right and left hemispheres were barely recognizable. But large areas of her cerebrum, which mediates consciousness, language, and voluntary movements, were structurally intact. Dolan shouted, “She’s got a brain!”

It's also obvious the mother is an ignoramus who doesn't understand the serious nature of brain damage, and she is surrounded by similar ignoramuses. Right after this happened, when the prognosis was given, she didn't believe it. She is quoted in the article that after the kid was moved and the feeding tube was inserted, she honestly believed the kid would get up. Ignorance + stress + a feeling you've been wronged + lawyers who are willing to take cases = the present mess

I do have some compassion for the mother, particularly because of the circumstances of the death, but her kid is not alive, and she's not being picked by Jaysus to endure some kind of hardship. Machines are keeping her kid alive and she's never going to have any kind of life. In the article the mother insists that Jahi heard the term "ventilator" in a family conversation and Jahi said," if something ever happens to me, make sure you keep me on one of those." I find this absurd--even if she did say that, she was an 8 year old kid with no understanding. As her parent, the mom should be making the decision as an adult and based on whether she's going to have any kind of life.

This case makes me think of the Susan Torres case. (She was a pregnant, brain dead woman whose husband was allowed to keep her alive until she could deliver her kid because they were forced-birthers.) He was heralded as some kind of saint, while Jahi McMath's mother is vilified. (I'm not saying what McMath's mother is doing is right, just pointing out the difference when a baybee is involved. hypocrisy. )

I would always take media articles with a grain of salt, as they're notorious for never reporting the truth, are incredibly biased, and will even lie to sell a story. It's also wise to remember that the persons writing the articles are not privy to actual first hand evidence (due to confidentiality and privacy laws), or even have any experience in any medical fields. In my own personal experiences with the media, I've seen how truth and accuracy is forgotten for cherry picking, out of context reporting and sensationalism. The media are there to sell stories, and truthful reporting the facts, usually don't factor into that motivation.

That being said, there seems to be a massive cluster 'F' going down with McCorpsy here on all sides, and it seem the charlatans and the sharks have smelled purely self-serving opportunities to be taken advantage of. The whole arguing about brain function is just a big distraction from the fact that the kid is dead, but kept ticking from life support.

Corpsy's brainstem is cactus, there's no coming back from that, regardless of evidence of pure autonomic functions such as menstruating and moving finger on command (if that is the actual reality, or some nonsensical half-truth - which I dare say lies inbetween). The cerebellum may be 'intact', and there may be some residual activity in parts of the brain, but if the brainstem is blown - like a motor, the rest of the brain will simply cease to function.

Furthermore the brain is compartmentalized, so there may be some juice in the battery, but only the wipers will work, everything else is literally dead - apart from the occasional flutter in the power windows. Corpsy may have jumper cables attached, but she will never be able to return to full cognitive consciousness - she's not even in a persistent vegetative state, as she can't even survive unassisted. To be absolutely harsh, she's a slowly decomposing slab of meat, with an occasional tick, being kept warm and pulsing, by a high tech Bain Marie.

What gets me is that healthcare promotes itself as being patient-centred, but nothing that has come out of this disgusting farce is anything remotely helping Corpsy at all. It's instead is placating the demented mother, who is so deluded (if she is) that her dead kid isn't dead, that she is willing to make it endure years of horrendous suffering (remember moo thinks it's alive, and if so, the kid would be suffering), just for moo's selfish desires. It shows that caring is the farthest thing from healthcare, and it's all about egos, $$$ and selfishness of others, and not the person it's hypocritically promoting as 'caring' for.

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nokidsandhappy
What gets me is that healthcare promotes itself as being patient-centred, but nothing that has come out of this disgusting farce is anything remotely helping Corpsy at all. It's instead is placating the demented mother, who is so deluded (if she is) that her dead kid isn't dead, that she is willing to make it endure years of horrendous suffering (remember moo thinks it's alive, and if so, the kid would be suffering), just for moo's selfish desires. It shows that caring is the farthest thing from healthcare, and it's all about egos, $$$ and selfishness of others, and not the person it's hypocritically promoting as 'caring' for.

American healthcare is strictly a for-profit venture.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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nokidsandhappy
I would always take media articles with a grain of salt, as they're notorious for never reporting the truth, are incredibly biased, and will even lie to sell a story. It's also wise to remember that the persons writing the articles are not privy to actual first hand evidence (due to confidentiality and privacy laws), or even have any experience in any medical fields. In my own personal experiences with the media, I've seen how truth and accuracy is forgotten for cherry picking, out of context reporting and sensationalism. The media are there to sell stories, and truthful reporting the facts, usually don't factor into that motivation.

What gets me is that healthcare promotes itself as being patient-centred, but nothing that has come out of this disgusting farce is anything remotely helping Corpsy at all. It's instead is placating the demented mother, who is so deluded (if she is) that her dead kid isn't dead, that she is willing to make it endure years of horrendous suffering (remember moo thinks it's alive, and if so, the kid would be suffering), just for moo's selfish desires. It shows that caring is the farthest thing from healthcare, and it's all about egos, $$$ and selfishness of others, and not the person it's hypocritically promoting as 'caring' for.

These are very astute observations nokidsandhappy. Bet the mother is religious and the more religious the worse it will be. Humans really need to get past the idea of miracles and thinking the impossible will happen if they just beeelieve. They use it to force women to have baybeez (miracul, Gawd's will, similar BS) and make people think their sick kid who has been in a coma will just pull a Lazurus one day and be perfectly functional. And nothing is selfish, they'll just claim it is Gawd's will.

I agree that 100% the media is usually looking out for its financial interests, and not interested in reporting the truth. But it isn’t really fair to look at this demented woman and make judgements about religious people like that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, being CF and being religious - in this case Christian, because nobody seems to insult Muslims so openly, or make fun of people for participating in Puja - aren’t incomparable. And to anyone who quotes go forth and multiply, it should be pointed out that those appeared only twice as commands, and they were directed at Adam/Eve, and Noah and his children. I’m not trying to come down hard on you Freya, or lecture at you Freya, I just wanted to point that out for any readers, especially lurking Christian fencesitters. The reason people keep thinking childfree-dom and Christianity are incompatible is because that idea has been woven into a narrative. And I’d just to say, not so.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

I feel sorry for Jahi McMath. You guys know that I'm more spiritual than religious, and I feel that her soul is trapped in that rotting corpse and unable to move on because they are keeping her mechanically alive. If it were my family member, I would allow the soul to be freed.

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contemplativeintrovert
I agree that 100% the media is usually looking out for its financial interests, and not interested in reporting the truth. But it isn’t really fair to look at this demented woman and make judgements about religious people like that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, being CF and being religious - in this case Christian, because nobody seems to insult Muslims so openly, or make fun of people for participating in Puja - aren’t incomparable. And to anyone who quotes go forth and multiply, it should be point out that those appeared only twice as commands, and they were directed at Adam/Eve, and Noah and his children. I’m not trying to come down hard on you Freya, or lecture at you Freya, I just wanted to point that out for any readers, especially lurking Christian fencesitters. The reason people keep thinking childfree-dom and Christianity are incompatible is because that idea has been woven into a narrative. And I’d just to say, not so.

There is also the massive counterpoint that Jesus never married or had children. If He is the 'second Adam' as some folks want to say, then maybe the 'go forth and multiply' is no longer a thing, because even one of the Apostles recommends being single and childless as a preferable state.

@Nightfire

Thank you! I appreciate it. I never know when to say something and when not to. I’m not trying to push my religion down anyone’s throat - I’m not trying to remove the splinter from your eye when there’s a 2x4 in mine and all that. I just wanted to point out that Christianity and Childfree-dom aren’t incompatible. There’s also the other point that if this woman really believes her child is still alive, she is keeping her from G-d, and that’s despicable. From the worldview of Abrahamic monotheism, Jahi is being kept from G-d. From the point of, I want to say Hinduism, but it may be Buddhism as well, Jahi is being kept from continuing her karmatic journey. From the worldview of an atheist, I’d imagine it’s terrible because she’s not really living, just being kept alive. I can find no point of view from which this woman can justify this. Religion aside, it’s just cruel. What if she were alive, but ‘locked in,’ as it were? She’d be suffering but unable to express it. I guess that’s the difference though between {pro-choice / pro-euthanasia} people and {anti-choice / pro-life at all costs} people. The former care about the quality of the lives involved, and the latter care only about keeping the tally of living people high, even if they are suffering.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

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mumofsixbirds
I feel sorry for Jahi McMath. You guys know that I'm more spiritual than religious, and I feel that her soul is trapped in that rotting corpse and unable to move on because they are keeping her mechanically alive. If it were my family member, I would allow the soul to be freed.

I wouldn't worry about it. There isn't a single shred of evidence that such a thing as a "soul" actually exists.

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contemplativeintrovert
I agree that 100% the media is usually looking out for its financial interests, and not interested in reporting the truth. But it isn’t really fair to look at this demented woman and make judgements about religious people like that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, being CF and being religious - in this case Christian, because nobody seems to insult Muslims so openly, or make fun of people for participating in Puja - aren’t incomparable. And to anyone who quotes go forth and multiply, it should be pointed out that those appeared only twice as commands, and they were directed at Adam/Eve, and Noah and his children. I’m not trying to come down hard on you Freya, or lecture at you Freya, I just wanted to point that out for any readers, especially lurking Christian fencesitters. The reason people keep thinking childfree-dom and Christianity are incompatible is because that idea has been woven into a narrative. And I’d just to say, not so.

You're correct comtemplativeintrovert, the moo could also be mentally incapable of understanding the medical diagnosis.
It is more about the Christian extremists (or fundamentalists) as they are the ones who like to inject "gawd's will" everywhere and they do think anyone who is childfree is against gawd and selfish. They also think STEM is pretty much evil and that mathematicians and scientists are plotting against the poor fundamentalists. This is common philosophy in the bible belt. And women are second class citizens who were born to breed as a punishment because of Adam and Eve. I'd guess it isn't any better in other extremist religions. I can't see anyone who is childfree being a fundamentalist or extreme in any religion because my guess is most of them will berate, cajole and push their members into having children. I've had friends who had entire churches turn their backs on them for divorcing an abusive spouse. Extreme members don't care about the individual, they care about conformity.
I've known of people in many religions who were intelligent and reasonable but when it comes to the fundamentalist extremists (and probably any extremists) there is no reasoning with them. If there is such a thing as a collective group psychosis then they would be a prime example of it.

Then again, I know of many intelligent people who aren't particularly religious (they go a few times a year) who are dead against abortion. Honestly, I don't know if there are any religions who openly accept abortion as an option or not.

@Freya

Fair enough. A lot of it comes down to belief. My mother {a Roman Catholic} and I {a Baptist} are both pro-choice, because we 1. Understand science and that a zygote isn’t a baby 2. Don’t think abortion is sinful and 3. Support separation of church and state. Duh is a Roman Catholic as well, but he stupidly believes abortion is evil because people use it instead of birth control. :eyeroll Right! Because I’m sure women love getting abortions! They are so less stigmatized and painful than other forms of bc. /sarcasm


But yeah it depends. A coworker of mine {Christian, didn’t know her denomination} was also pro-choice for many of the same reasons. I think besides for religion, a big part of it is also how people feel about women. I’m not saying all pro-lifers are misogynistic, but I will say pro-choicers tend to have more positive feelings about women, religion aside. Pro-lifers generally seem to have this idea that in a man v. woman scenario, women are to blame by default.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

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freya

Then again, I know of many intelligent people who aren't particularly religious (they go a few times a year) who are dead against abortion. Honestly, I don't know if there are any religions who openly accept abortion as an option or not.

Satanism. Here in the U.S., the Satanic Temple just won a lawsuit against the state of Missouri, saying that mandatory ultrasounds are unnecessary and discriminatory. They won the lawsuit. (Missouri, of course, is appealing the decision.)

@Skyeyes

Mandatory ultrasounds for what? I’m confused. Wouldn’t you only need one to determine you are pregnant and thus need an abortion? Also, aren’t there other ways to tell before you’re far enough belong for an ultrasound?

Edited to add: besides for missing periods. Some people are irregular anyway, and iirc someone on here said you can have periods while pregnant sommetimes {it was the thread about being pregnant and not knowing it}.

Lock him up or put him down.
Stolen from Shiny.

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skyeyes

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freya

Then again, I know of many intelligent people who aren't particularly religious (they go a few times a year) who are dead against abortion. Honestly, I don't know if there are any religions who openly accept abortion as an option or not.

Satanism. Here in the U.S., the Satanic Temple just won a lawsuit against the state of Missouri, saying that mandatory ultrasounds are unnecessary and discriminatory. They won the lawsuit. (Missouri, of course, is appealing the decision.)

The Satanists that like to expose the hypocritical failures of church-state separation in the US are atheists. They're organized, but I wouldn't really call it religion. It's like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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contemplativeintrovert
Mandatory ultrasounds for what? I’m confused. Wouldn’t you only need one to determine you are pregnant and thus need an abortion? Also, aren’t there other ways to tell before you’re far enough belong for an ultrasound?

Just one of a host of measures to prevent women from getting abortions by forcing them to get an ultrasound first. It adds to the cost and of course takes time, all because some fuckwits think showing a woman a blurry squiggle on a screen is going to make them remorseful and anti-abortion.

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contemplativeintrovert
@Skyeyes

Mandatory ultrasounds for what? I’m confused. Wouldn’t you only need one to determine you are pregnant and thus need an abortion? Also, aren’t there other ways to tell before you’re far enough belong for an ultrasound?

One ultrasound per woman, but multiple women. I don't know how else to explain it.

And yes, there are other ways to tell how far along you are. When I was pregnant (before I had my scrape), the doc did a pelvic and *looked* at the embryo. "Nine weeks along," he declared. The next day it was a done deal. This was in 1975, before ultrasound was much in use for pregnancy or anything else, AFAIK.

Finally!

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Little Corpsy finally kicked the bucket!