A crappy childhood IS a good reason not to have kids of your own

https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-07/uoc--pwh070518.php

Some breederific types say nurturing their own children can be therapeutic for parents and make up for whatever they didn't get as children. This study is evidence to the contrary.

The first tantrum will change many, many minds.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

again, Dr. L cautions against getting involved with someone else who was damaged as a kid. sad, but the odds against success increase according to her.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

My husband and I both had terrible childhoods. Things aren't always easy, but we are proactive about working things out. We are actually doing a lot better now, and our marriage feels stronger because of the work and effort we've both put into it. Things aren't always perfect, but I think that things wouldn't be perfect in a lot of people's marriages, including ones that had a great childhood.

If we threw a brat into the mix, however, things would go south very quickly. The financial and emotional stress on us would be too difficult to handle. Luckily we are older, and there will never be loaves in the mix.

Wondering what constitutes a crappy childhood?
How many people weren't damaged as a kid? Seems like most people I know were damaged to some degree.

"The types of childhood hardships included divorce or separation of parents, death of or estrangement from a parent, emotional, physical or sexual abuse, witnessing violence in the home, exposure to substance abuse in the household or parental mental illness."

"The study showed that the children of parents who themselves had four or more adverse childhood experiences were at double the risk of having attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and were four time more likely to have mental health problems."

According to these quotes from the article four experiences make one damaged. I didn't have all these forms of hardship but the ones I had were daily. Guess that constitutes damage according to this article. Sounds to me like it is a realistic statement that at least 50% of people are damaged, perhaps more?

It is much better for people to decide against kids because of a rough childhood than it is for people to decide to have kids simply because they think they can do better than their parents did. There are plenty of positive ways to make a difference in the world without having kids and if one of them isn't their calling they can end the commitment without permanent damage and start a new one more aligned with their interests. If they're having a PTSD moment, mental health problem or something they can call in sick or stay home and recover. I think having this option is really good for them. But they can't do that with kids at all or only on a very rare occasion if they have lots of support.

"Some breederific types say nurturing their own children can be therapeutic for parents and make up for whatever they didn't get as children. "

The stupid and the selfishness, they hurt.

1. Having a kid to heal yourself is completely selfish but unfortunately not uncommon.
2. The worst parents are the ones who are driven to have a chyld because they aren't going to be like their abusive parents. Without serious professional help they are destined to be abusive or they are completely ineffective and they raise brats. My mom was a horrible parent and she was determined to do it differently and she failed miserably. She focused on stupid superficial stuff that her mom didn't do and she did the opposite but she was just as abusive as her own mother if not worse.

Clueless breeders continuing the ruin, one generation at a time.

ETA: there is a test regarding adverse childhood events. It's available online. My score was either 12 or 13 depending on how honest I want to be.

ETA 2: thanks odinette for the clarification. I posted without looking it up and I messed up the details: 6 or 7 depending on how honest I want to be.

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It is much better for people to decide against kids because of a rough childhood than it is for people to decide to have kids simply because they think they can do better than their parents did.

Very true. Plus, I think some people still hold grudges against their own parents for setting boundaries and telling them "no" every so often, so these now-grown kids want to have kids of their own and raise them "better" by doing everything their parents never did. So basically they turn into gentle discipline parents and allow their kids to turn into screaming monsters that get diagnosed with autism. They might see having kids as a way to start with a clean slate and have the childhood they always wanted by living vicariously through their kids, which is often a recipe for disaster because these people are using their kids for their own desires instead of trying to raise functioning human beings. And if the parent in question has bona fide diagnosed mental health issues, there's no one to stop them from taking out their frustrations on their kids.

Also, no shit that people with bad childhoods can make bad parents. If you were raised by fucked up parents and turned out fucked up yourself as a result, you might not have a great frame of reference as far as what constitutes normal or healthy parenting. You could very easily wind up doing the same kind of damage to your own kid that your parents did to you. One of the reasons I don't want kids is I'm afraid I'll abuse them the way my mother abused me. Sure, she never hit me, but she damaged me mentally and it's something I don't think I'll ever recover from, all because I had the nerve to be born.

Having kids cannot cure mental illness or undo damage done by your own parents. Brats take a colossal toll on sane, financially stable people. Give one of these needy little beasts to someone who's already fucked in the head and all that'll happen is the cycle of illness and abuse will continue for another generation.

My mother is an example of someone who had a bad childhood but went on to be a good mother. I think an important component of it was knowing what was wrong with her childhood, but not viewing me as a chance to repeat and fix her own childhood. She has always seen me as an individual rather than a copy of herself, and she processed a lot of what happened to her before she ever became a parent. I don't approve of giving a child a job at birth, be it to hold a marriage together or to provide therapy. People with crappy childhoods need to work it out before they raise children.

There have also been some reports recently showing that trauma is passed on genetically. It used to be thought that whatever happened in a person's lifetime isn't really passed on, only the raw DNA, but that doesn't seem to be true. Stress, hunger, etc all leave their mark, also on subsequent generations. So even a person who has dealt with their demons and won't pass on the trauma through their parenting style might still mark a child biologically.

Bell Flower,

What test are you talking about? The only one I can find has 10 questions with a maximum score of 10. I score 4 out of ten. The problem is the test only asks about shit that happened in the home or family, not shit that happened elsewhere like being unpopular or bullied at school. If they asked about these things my score would go up to 5 or 6, possibly higher depending on what they asked.

Yurble,

I have also read about trauma being passed on genetically, and it is fascinating. Both my parents have issues from their own childhoods, and my mom especially was mentally unstable when I was growing up. I was probably born hardwired to be sensitive and reactive, so therefore even more affected by the shit happening at home and at school.

My parents went to the opposite extreme as their parents. They both felt ignored and neglected, so they became overly involved in my life. It felt intrusive, not caring.

If I had kids I would probably repeat my grandparents' mistake and not be involved enough. I also would end up having a terrible temper like my parents no matter how hard I tried not to.

My infancy was very very damaged. The birth mother fucked around on her husband when he was away in Vietnam. Being before Roe V Wade, she had to shit out the loaf and gave me up for adoption.

The first adoption was fucked from the word go. I was taken from those parents with a bleeding diaper rash (it could have been something else but they kept secrets in the 1960's) and acute malnutrition. I was hospitalized for ten months. I was fostered for quite a while before being given to my second adoptive mother.

The second adoptive mother was on the ball. She had me diagnosed as mildly autistic at 5. I was schooled at a specialty school for the disabled until age 13. I was mainstreamed into public school, and during that time my family and I fell on hard times. Both my parents lost their jobs thanks to Reagan and his fucked up domestic policy. The parents and I lived with various people, and one had a son who molested me. He was physically a year younger than I but mentally I was the younger.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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ondinette
I also would end up having a terrible temper like my parents no matter how hard I tried not to.

Me too. When I was younger I would hit a pillow to get my frustration out. Now I can take a nap, a bath, do some gardening, etc. to deal with it and I've heard from others I'm way too patient (of all things!). If I feel really stressed I'll take some kava kava. I don't think for one second these methods would work if I had kids and had to deal with them constantly pushing boundaries and all the other stuff they do.

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craftyzits
My infancy was very very damaged.

I really hope you read most of this in your file or were told by someone about it and don't have memories of it as it is terrible.

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freya

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craftyzits
My infancy was very very damaged.

I really hope you read most of this in your file or were told by someone about it and don't have memories of it as it is terrible.

Other than a few 'snapshots' I've no memories before the age of six.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

My father was an alcoholic and my mother was overbearing and abusive. No way in hell would I drag that shit into another generation. In many ways I feel as though I am living my life out of order to compensate for what I missed out on as a child. I pretty much had to parent them when I was young. They went through an acrimonious divorce when I was 8 and they used me as a go-between to say horrible shit to each other. I complied because I didn't know better. I found a letter that my mom wrote my uncle, when I was about 9, saying that she did not want to be a mother. The resentment that she had for having to meet my needs was palpable. Forget any sort of enrichment activities like dance class or school activities; she was embittered at the thought that I needed clothes and food and made me feel bad about it every chance she got.


I could go on and on, but the end result is that I now struggle with bipolar and ADHD, along with some other fun shit. I also have a violent temper that I have gone to great lengths to control, so much so that most people see a mild, passive person when they see me. I am scared of what I am capable of doing to someone else if I am pushed too far. When I was 16, my mother and I were embroiled in yet another physical altercation because she didn't like my facial expression or some small infraction. Every other time I never hit back because, you know, you don't hit your mother. This time I fucking snapped. I got so damn tired of being punched, slapped, BIT, having my hair pulled, belittled, screamed at, etc. so I grabbed her by the shoulders and threw her into a wall. I felt like a damned monster. I despise people who abuse children, but I have so much stress as it is that having to be around some screaming, misbehaving kid would push me WAY past my coping abilities. I'd be afraid that the first time that kid acted up I would go completely apeshit.

Anyway, I don't want to end this post on such a shitty note, but I can tell you that now I am proud that I have the means to do and care for myself the way I never was as a child. After 20 or so years of self-medicating with alcohol, I now rarely drink. I signed myself up for my first ever dance class last summer at 42. I am grateful that I have a career that provides me with more than enough clothing and food. I have learned to be easier on myself and love myself for who I am instead of self-inflicting pain for who I am not. This shit takes a lifetime to clean up and is the reason that, not only am I childfree, but I am pro-abortion as well.

You dont need a reason nor justification to stay childfree. "I dont want kids" is reason enough!

A long time ago, when this page first started and we didn't have the effective moderation we do now, dumbass Breeders could come on this page and talk shit and crap up threads. Thank Todd SS delegated the power to other mods and that ended.

Anyway, I sparred with some dumbass Moo who said something like, "I can tell you all had bad childhoods" and she took glee in the fact that some of us did. She was a dumb yet vicious bitch, and she went into great detail about how we were probably sexually molested, etc. (ETA: she may have been a man masquerading as a Moo, come to think of it. She had an MRA-vibe.)

I remember thinking, so much for Moohood making you a more thoughtful person because this person sounds like a sick fuck and really:

1. Does anyone get to choose their parents? Nope.
2. Therefore if someone had a bad childhood, is it his/her fault? Nope--it's the parunt's fault.
3. If someone decides not to have kyds based on this experience, how can that possibly be a bad thing?
4. So given these factors, why mock someone who makes a decision based on the above?

There is little logic in Breeding.

Yurble, your mom is an exceptional person.

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bell_flower
Yurble, your mom is an exceptional person.

I've come to appreciate it her all the more during my time on this board. She really listens and tries to see my point of view (for instance, I've discussed my antinatalism with her, because I knew she wouldn't have the knee-jerk response of getting offended.)

It makes me sad that so many people have suffered through such horrible parenting.

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herbalgeek
I could go on and on, but the end result is that I now struggle with bipolar and ADHD, along with some other fun shit. I also have a violent temper that I have gone to great lengths to control, so much so that most people see a mild, passive person when they see me.

Has it improved since you've become older (bipolar and ADHD) herbalgeek? I read on one of the scale pages for abuse that divorce, a parent that abused drugs and abuse will make you score high and can cause bipolar and ADHD.

I had some symptoms of ADHD as a kid (nothing severe) which went away once I lived on my own and learned how to exert mental effort for longer periods of time, became somewhat better with the runaway thoughts and put a system in place for organization. It also helped greatly that there were no longer worries that someone being in my proximity meant I was going to be hit or threatened.

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ladybug2203
You dont need a reason nor justification to stay childfree. "I dont want kids" is reason enough!

According to some people, it's not. Funny how "I want kids" is a good enough reason to have them, but "I don't want kids" isn't a good enough reason to not have them as far as most people are concerned. Someone says they want kids and it's just accepted without further question. But someone says they don't want kids and it turns into an interrogation. What's wrong with you? Are you infertile? Were you abused? Do you hate kids?

Or they just skip questions and jump to conclusions. You're so selfish, you'll change your mind, you're immature, every woman's destiny is motherhood, and so on. We know all the bingos. Shit, on a site I used to post on, I casually mentioned I don't want kids and several members all banded together to try to diagnose me with some mental disorder because clearly something had to be wrong with me if I was a woman who didn't want kids! Defending myself was pointless because that was the mental illness talking.

Yes, some people who don't want kids did have bad childhoods, or are infertile, or hate kids. But plenty of people who have or want kids had bad childhoods, are infertile, are mentally ill, and hate kids too. I don't know why these things are seen as "defects" exclusive to CFers.

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Cambion
Yes, some people who don't want kids did have bad childhoods, or are infertile, or hate kids. But plenty of people who have or want kids had bad childhoods, are infertile, are mentally ill, and hate kids too. I don't know why these things are seen as "defects" exclusive to CFers.

That last reason ought to be a serious cause for interrogation when someone wants to have kids! Yet how often do you hear people saying that they don't really care for kids but it is different when it is their own?

I've heard a LOT of breeders say that they can stand other people's kids, but love their own. I guess that's a good thing? Unfortunately, I think a lot of other people don't realize they don't want kids until after they've had them, and by then it's too late. These are the ones who treat their kids like crap and resent them for existing and then the kids grow up all fucked up, or they go out of their way to have as little interaction with the kid as possible.

Or you get the people who say they don't want or like kids and find themselves pregnant, but won't abort and feel obligated to raise it because "everything happens for a reason." Then they raise a kid they don't want or like. Because that couldn't possibly turn out badly!

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Cambion
Or you get the people who say they don't want or like kids and find themselves pregnant, but won't abort and feel obligated to raise it because "everything happens for a reason." Then they raise a kid they don't want or like. Because that couldn't possibly turn out badly!

Yes, a birth control failure. There are many cures for that which don't require 18 years.

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Cambion
I've heard a LOT of breeders say that they can't stand other people's kids, but love their own. I guess that's a good thing?

In breeder minds it is, but to my mind it just shows how utterly self-absorbed they are. They are the sort of people who won't consider the good of the community, but would happily ruin something for other children if it would give their child a small benefit. Their under-supervised child gets hurt on the slide at the playground? Then the much-beloved slide must be removed. Their child would benefit from personal instruction? The school district had better pay for it, even if it means canceling a program for gifted children. At the most extreme they become those adults who sabotage other children, like that woman who hired a hitman to kill another child's mother so that the girl would be too upset to compete in cheerleading tryouts and her own daughter would get on the team.