Apparently our "Rhetoric" is off.. That's why we are offensive. FFS

I came across this article on Facebook and this lady is pretty adamant that the whole reason why she doesn't like our not-having-kids thing isn't because we don't want kids, it's because our "rhetoric" is offensive and jerky. Please excuse her as she goes on an offensive and jerky rant to counteract this.

Sorry, Millenials who don't want kids: Sometimes you have to check your rhetoric.

My comment was this (I commented on the article itself because clicking on the Facebook button to actually post it was broken):

Perhaps.. if childfree people weren't literally forced to defend their choice, you wouldn't hear any of this? We have to defend ourselves on a regular basis as to why we don't want kids. But has anyone ever grilled a parent on why THEY had kids? With the same hurtful rhetoric and condescending behavior? Nope. Unthinkable.

Furthermore, the link was to an article detailing BRUTALLY HONEST reasons why some people opt out of parenthood. Apparently, brutal honesty was too strong for the author's sensibilities. It's honest AND brutal so hang on to your butt when you click that!

For example, my reasoning for not wanting kids is centered on the fact that the world IS sucking presently and that I like my freedom. How can that be said in a way that any parent will be cool with? It can't. Which brings me to my next point:

There is NO way for a childfree person to be proud of our decision and be completely non-offensive. It's just too divisive an issue. The only way for me to be completely palatable to the parenting community is to adopt a toothless, self-abasing, and even self-deprecating approach to myself. Such as ones that were outlined in the article "you're too selfish, you have a fear of responsibility, you (insert personal failing here)". I will NOT make myself look less-than to stroke your ego. You'll need to buy me dinner first.

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So.. We know that food and water are running out, with overpopulation and all... Yet people keep on poppin' out those babies! I guess they want to have their baby and eat it too...

My top reason is that parenting gives you a free license to be selfish based purely on the fact that you're being selfish for an emanation of your own self. The illusion that what you do to benefit your children benefits them solely is a fallacy. Every parent benefits from the benefits that their children receive. Henceforth, it gives one a license to perpetuate a dog-eat-dog mentality that I perceive to be amoral. Parents say that their children are their greatest loves, what they forget to add is that they are their ONLY loves and only because their children are a reflection of themselves. I prefer to be able to love multiple people and have lasting relationships of many types and possess the essential core value of empathy for all than to restrict myself to an echo chamber of ego-masturbation and self-serving chicanery.

In short: Not parenting makes you a better person.

Good on you, catharsist! I did try to click on the link, but it didn't work. It said that the site wasn't secure enough or something.

What the HELL difference does it make to parents anyways, whether or not we have kids, our reasons, etc. etc. Yeah, a lot of us ARE pissed off from having to justify our choices, ward off endless bingos, suffer in the workplace because parents are always taking time off and dumping the excess on us. CF people don't qualify for the same tax credits and government bennies that breeders do.

We are PISSED OFF because we are constantly harassed and discriminated against because of our desire NOT to procreate. If breeders were in our shoes, they wouldn't take it for a single second. They can't even stand the idea of restaurants and other establishments catering to adults, and not wanting brats in their facilities. As Paragon stated in another thread, it is their MISSION in fucking LIFE to make sure that they and their ill-behaved hellspawn are welcomed everywhere. They don't even stop to consider the possibility that a lot of parents hire these little things called BABYSITTERS to look after their bastards, and maybe don't want to put up with someone else's.

Sorry about my rantiness, I'm going through a stressful family crisis and I've been in the heat for about an hour setting up for my annual airshow barbecue.

Here's a web archive version (I couldn't open the original link either)

link

Our "rhetoric" is basically the childfree version of the answer to the "skinny girls are always angry because they're hungry" myth. (You know, where a skinny girl is bombarded with questions like "why are you so skinny?" "it's just genetics" "but are you eating enough?" "yes" "aren't you anorexic?" "no" "are you sure?" "yes" "but this is not healthy" "leave me the fuck alone" "OMG why are skinny girls so angry? must be because they don't eat enough")

btw yes, it's hypocritical when I say I want to fight overpopulation, when in reality I just don't want kids. But hey, nobody goes after those parents who say that they're raising "future taxpayers", even though I'm sure as hell that none of them actually thinks of their kids as future taxpayers...

Whole article is stupid. It even contradicts itself.

"Compare parents to workers with disabilities. At first, you may be appalled and offended by the comparison- obviously, people with disabilities can’t choose their conditions. But, remember there are so many reasons why a person ends up a parent. They may have ended up taking care of a child that isn’t theirs, they may have faced unplanned pregnancy and for completely valid moral, philosophical, social and religious reasons, chose parenting rather than adoption or abortion."

CHOSE parenting rather than abortion. No, it's not a choice, it's just something they chose...

"No, taking time off work to do a home reno or write a novel isn’t as valid as parental leave."

May I ask why? Oh. Because you said so. Okay, I get it now.

"Your workplace is not obligated to accommodate your personal life"

So parenting is not part of personal life?

"Providing leave to parents is not a matter of giving them time off on a whim"

Yeah, nobody ever had to work overtime on a few hours' notice because mom co-worker had to go home early. Everybody always knows it in advance.

"If you don’t like how a child is behaving at a restaurant or on an airplane, don’t request that they move. If you are unhappy with your location for any reason, you have the right to move yourself to make yourself happy."

I'm paying in advance for my window seat, bitch. Will Lil' Screamer refund my money?

"You don’t have the right to move others to make yourself happy. That’s selfish and it’s segregating and it makes people feel like shit."

I'll keep that in mind when we throw a loud party with my friends, since apparently that's the only thing we childfree people do in our spare time. Everyone who doesn't like loud music can just move away, they can't move us to make themselves happy.

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tea princess
btw yes, it's hypocritical when I say I want to fight overpopulation, when in reality I just don't want kids. But hey, nobody goes after those parents who say that they're raising "future taxpayers", even though I'm sure as hell that none of them actually thinks of their kids as future taxpayers...

The thing is, you can do something for multiple reasons. I'm sure that there IS an add on reason for besides the basic. I feel like everyone has multiple reasons to some extent, not that we NEED them, but reasons to not have children are like potato chips. That said, not having children does ultimately fight overpopulation. Being hypocritical is saying one thing and then doing the opposite. I don't find you hypocritical in the least because you're accomplishing what you want to and that's in line with what you're saying regardless of initial reasoning. I am more likely to judge an eco-parent because that just doesn't fucking exist.

Also mumofsixbirds, sorry about your situation, I hope it gets resolved quickly.

Also, sorry the link didn't work! It was acting weird so I wrote the full title of the article as the link so it was searchable.

catharsist, your answer was much better stated than mine would have been. Mine would have been something along the lines of, "Suck it, bitch, we don't have to check anything for you."

It amazes me that breeders think we owe them any effort to spare their precious feelings. If parenthood is the right and glorious state they claim it is, shouldn't they be more secure than this?

Boy, someone is really projecting about all those dern child free with their lack of responsibility. Jealous much?
And unless she is referring to minors I've got news for her. A college student has responsibilities. A young adult has responsibilities. And even the child free take vacations that involve responsibility of all kinds. Welcome to being an adult. As an adult we can choose to forego certain experiences, such as being a parent and it doesn't make us any less responsible.

Ah, the childfree and all those parties parents are convinced we are always going to. Some of us childfree hardly ever go to parties, some are introverts and plenty of parents also party and some do it right in front of their kids.

Just once can someone NOT mention nursing homes and their brats taking care of the child-free? Bitch, that is what my retirement is for. And of course, children to her are always feewturr world leaders, cancer curers or nursing home aides. Would any parent's ultimate ambition really be for their kid to become a CNA?

And no, do not dare compare parenting with deserving as the same consideration as people with disabilities deserve. They didn't willingly birth the disabilities.

Discrimination? Bitch, please. I spend at least 10 of my fertile years fighting the assumption from employers that I would get a job, marry and become pregnant. They didn't want to hire me because of all the rabid breeders.

Overconsumption...really? Because the people I've known with the biggest houses, the most crap, and garages full of shit are pretty much all parents. Oh, they were going to use the shit in the garage that has been sitting in there for 18 mos., untouched? Both my neighbors and myself were parking in our garage within a week or less of moving in and none of us have kids. Another neighbor across the street - no kids and a clean garage with plenty of room for a car. Contrast that with my other two parent neighbors who have lived in their places for over 1 year each and have yet to park a car in their garage. We the childfree aren't the ones buying gifts for brats year round. We don't need to completely replace our clothes and shoes every year or more than that because we aren't growing. We don't have brats whining to us about cell phones and the $500 a month cell phone plan. We don't have to drive an Urban Assault Vehicle that so many parents feel entitled to drive. Other than my tiny kitchen that lacks a pantry and adequate cabinet space, my place is devoid of clutter.
Also, eating out for the childfree tends to be more of a treat and isn't necessary for our sanity. Our food budgets are smaller.

Claiming parents deserve to have it all because it is the decent thing to do. No bitch, just like any other mere mortal if there is an expense you need to save for it rather than encouraging favoritism because of your lifestyle choices. The choices are money, time or kids. Choose two only, unless you've won the lottery. And when you're younger you may not have any of the three. No one, including the childfree, can have it all.

Some of us want to solve the unwanted kids problem by making abortion socially acceptable so that women who do not want babies aren't shamed into a choice they will regret. We would love for every child on earth to be wanted and loved. Despite what the movies and popular culture love to preach about (impossibly handsome) knights (with no shortcomings or personality defects) in shining armor who want to bail out breeders and move them into his mansion are STORIES. The reality is a mother who doesn't want a child is much more likely to end badly for both the mother and child. And plenty of kids fully know they are unwanted, their parents tell them this or put them up for adoption.

I think this moo is in the group of women who bought the fairy tale and was just clever enough to wake up one day and realize it is a life of drudgery and is now bitter. She probably didn't have an inkling that she would have endless housework every single day. Obviously she is jealous of child free millennials and seems threatened that so many are making the choice to be child free. It was tough to be forced to be a part-time parent as a 7 year old but at least it opened my eyes at a young age to the reality that parenting wasn't for me.

When you are discriminated against, if you ask for your rights in a way that is appealing to those in power, you can expect never to receive them.

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yurble
When you are discriminated against, if you ask for your rights in a way that is appealing to those in power, you can expect never to receive them.

THIS ^^^^^^^

If you say something and it strikes a nerve you can BET that you were heard. If you just get drowned out in the din you aren't going to get any change. You'll just be casually ignored. The main issue is that like I said you can't in any way speak positively about the decision to not have kids without ultimately pointing out flaws in the institution of having kids. She's literally asking for us to do something that we literally can't do without debasing ourselves and agreeing with her moral outrage at our existence. Because it's easier to ignore us that way at best and a way to stroke her ego at worst. She doesn't like hearing us talk about our shit and wants to be ensured that we aren't happy so she has something to tell herself when she's wiping asses. Well that's too damn bad. Bed made, lie.

From the very apparently inofenssive bingoes to straight out discrimination, well no, i don’t see why CF people are so angry! *sarcasm*

Let me give you an example. DH didn’t have a holiday this year and one week ago he was told that he could take a week holiday. He was just called by the employer that they need him tomorrow at work because they messed up the holiday schedule and the woman DH is replacing has holiday now. We just had the funeral for DH’s grandpa, he got only one free day for it and he has to care for two households now as FIL died last year: his sick mother and old grandma who is almost blind. But he was told well can you change your personal plans and come to work? If it would have been a child here, do you think it would have happened the same?

He never had a permanent contract, somehow those always go to people with kids and he just replaces workers when they take holidays or sick leaves. I help how i can but i work in another city as i couldn’t find work where he lives. I travel almost every weekend back and forth. But yeah, we are told we have such an easy and carefree life. Or we get the, well you don’t have children so you’d better care for your old parents and grandparents or so what if you and DH are apart because of work? You don’t have children anyway so you can be like that.

I did think many times that maybe it would be better to crap out a kid, our lives would be much easier when it comes to people taking us serioulsy and not shitting on us like that. Oh you have to take care of two households? Better change your plans and come to work!