Moo troll will probably be sued

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/transgender-activist-wins-court-ruling-forcing-parenting-website-reveal-identity-alleged-online-abuser-121317596.html

Some moo with lots of time on her hands got into a he/she war with a transgender person in the UK, insisting that a transman is a woman due to DNA. Regardless of the man/woman thing, the person who runs mumsnet was legally forced to hand over the moo's name address and everything needed for a harassment lawsuit.

I guess moo with nothing else to do but troll got a lesson on thinking a person is totally annoymous on the net.

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cfdavep
I guess moo with nothing else to do but troll got a lesson on thinking a person is totally annoymous on the net.

More people need that lesson. If you harass someone, there should be consequences.

Noooo. Sorry. As a gender Critical feminist I find this abhorrent. There's no rationale for this at all. There are stories about police actually going to question social media users if they even Tweet something considered transphobic. The Mumsnet user did nothing wrong. I hate kids but that doesn't mean any wrong done to a parent is acceptable.

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cfinboston
There's no rationale for this at all.

No rationale to "harassment should have consequences"?

And by "gender Critical feminist" do you happen to mean "terf"?

I personally would need to know more about this spat to pass judgement.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

I'd like to know more about this story too because while I'm glad this hateful Moo is getting the book thrown at her in spite of believing in fake protection from internet anonymity, the victim also seems rather lawsuit-happy, having sued one other person and having another arrested for referring to them using the wrong pronouns since 2018.

I'm glad Moo is getting her comeuppance, but the victim kinda sounds like a whiny bitch too. Not that I feel people should be harassed or ridiculed for their sexuality, but the victim reminds me of the kid in class who would tattle if someone so much as looked at them wrong.

I'm sorry if anyone here or the loved ones of anyone here is trans and I realize there's probably a LOT about this I don't get because I'm not trans. I guess I just don't get why saying "he" instead of "she" and vice versa constitutes abuse, even if it's done on purpose. Actual threats of violence because of the person's sexuality? Definitely needs punishing. Arresting and suing for addressing them with the wrong pronoun? That... kinda seems dramatic to me.

Still, hopefully it's a warning to Moos to think twice before being openly hateful toward anybody for any reason. The internet won't protect your ass, especially since there are plenty of vigilante justice peeps out there more than willing to dox your ass.

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Cambion
Still, hopefully it's a warning to Moos to think twice before being openly hateful toward anybody for any reason. The internet won't protect your ass, especially since there are plenty of vigilante justice peeps out there more than willing to dox your ass.

Very much this^^. If it's a frivolous lawsuit, it deserves to get tossed, no question. But if the moo was really harassing someone, the fact that it was online shouldn't bar consequences.

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kittehpeoples

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Cambion
Still, hopefully it's a warning to Moos to think twice before being openly hateful toward anybody for any reason. The internet won't protect your ass, especially since there are plenty of vigilante justice peeps out there more than willing to dox your ass.

Very much this^^. If it's a frivolous lawsuit, it deserves to get tossed, no question. But if the moo was really harassing someone, the fact that it was online shouldn't bar consequences.

Even if the other is a lawsuit happy bitch doesn't mean that Moo isn't a bully. It just that she wasn't necessarily bullying that particular person. It is very likely this cow had been bullying someone somewhere and some when. Karma doesn't always come calling right away.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

It's hard to know what really happened due to how it's being reported, but my initial take is similar to CFB, which is this is professional victimhood and PC nonsense gone awry. If someone poses a credible threat and is acting threatening, that's a legitimate use of police resources, but launching a successful lawsuit when someone is refusing to use the pronoun you want them to use seems frivolous and sets a bad precedent.

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bell_flower
It's hard to know what really happened due to how it's being reported, but my initial take is similar to CFB, which is this is professional victimhood and PC nonsense gone awry. If someone poses a credible threat and is acting threatening, that's a legitimate use of police resources, but launching a successful lawsuit when someone is refusing to use the pronoun you want them to use seems frivolous and sets a bad precedent.

I'm unfamiliar with UK law, but I would hope it wouldn't be easy to force a website to turn over personal information just because a user said "she" instead of "he." My take was that there's more going on than that, or stuff like that wouldn't be happening. Obviously I could be wrong, because as I said, I don't know the law. I *am* very anti-online harassment, though, and if that's what this moo was doing, I'm thrilled she's getting busted for it.

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kittehpeoples

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cfinboston
There's no rationale for this at all.

No rationale to "harassment should have consequences"?

And by "gender Critical feminist" do you happen to mean "terf"?

There are a number of critical feminists here. Being critical means being skeptical of claims, and not accepting a claim as fact without sufficient evidence.

The current trans trend is all too similar to the previous mental illness fads of ADHD, Bipolar, and Autism. Many people see some of these traits in their own personality, they assume they have it, and then start acting like they have it.

Only this time this fad also had the treatment equivalent and permanence of lobotomy, in that the 'treatment' is a surgical and medical treatment of a psychological condition. In this case, instead of icepicks to the brain, it is hormone blockers, man-created equivalents of male or female hormones, and occasionally amputation, removal or alteration of nomal body parts to fit in a created equivalent of male or female 'genitalia.'

Real trans people are rare. However this trend is making this number artificially inflated, it is primarily a product of social contagion, and what seems to be a shit ton of Autogynophilia fetish coming out of the woodwork. Autogynophilia is the sexual fetish of becoming or imagining oneself as a woman, and is not the same as being truely dysphoric.

People should not have to feel scared (or even be threatened) by being skeptical of something like this, or afraid of threats of inadvertently inducing another person to self-harm. There is a massive need for critical and objective thinking here, and it is not getting it. There is a very serious lack of objectivity around a psychological condition that suddenly lots of people are claiming or wanting themselves or others to have, of which the normal treatment for this rare conditions tends to create some very serious and permanent degrees of hormonal and physiological alterations, that which too many laypeople seem to be ignorant or misinformed about. It's a dangerous thing, because there will be real people caught up in this hurting and damaged and potentially suicidal after the novelty wears off and the reality of what they did to themselves becomes apparent, because other people were afraid of hurting their feelings or calling bullshit on the heavy level pseudo-science that seems to have arisen around this 'movement.'

Critical feminists don't hate trans people. It is just hate of the tumor of a movement that seems to have emerged in 2011 and is almost scarily cult-like, of which criticism or skepticism is labeled as evil, and threatened with violence or causing self-harm or suicide in others.

My uncle was born female and knew he was a male as a female child, is a guy at 71 and does not regret it. Back then it was said to be rare, now with the net every Tom Dick and Harry wants to change their sex, even people in middle age seem to be waking up and deciding they are the other gender.

Any way there was an article that I can't find and didn't bookmark about a Scottish psychologist who said that most cases of gender dysphoria is about severely dysfunctional upbringings, but that if you say that in public then you are considered a conservative transphobic bible thumping ass.

I don't know how to feel about this tbh. On one hand, I feel very fortunate to have known my sexual identity for my whole life, and never questioned it. I also wish that people would learn to be a little more civil, and not feel that they can hide their identity while posting nastiness to other people.

On the other hand, I've been trolled online, and while I might get a bit pissed off, I wouldn't go off the deep end and try to sue the other person for damages. I know who I am as a person, so I don't allow online attacks to hurt me so much.

My lifetime BFF is a Queen, and while I love him exactly as he is (he's okay with being called a guy) it's tough because when I first met him, we were kids and he was simply a guy. Over the years, he shared with me that he always wanted to be female. We didn't talk for awhile due to our lives changing, and when we hooked back up again awhile back, he told me he'd legally changed his name to a woman's name. Cool with me, I really don't care about what he does or what he wears, but sometime I still slip and call him by his old name.

Would he sue me over something like that? Fuck no. I usually apologize and call him by his new name. It's okay if I refer to him as "he" here, because he usually dresses as a guy when he's out. He also works in a male-dominated trade. I usually only refer to him as "she" when we go over and it's dress-up time. It can get a bit confusing, but he's the kind of guy who wouldn't hurt a soul. He also has a fairly thick skin about this shit.

One time, he left FB because he was being harassed for his lifestyle. I asked him about it, and he said to me with a chuckle, "Well, when you live on the fringes, you can pretty well expect that kind of response from a lot of people."

Sorry about my rambling. I think that both people were at fault here in this story. The woman for being intentionally rude, and the trans woman for being so overly sensitive. She'd better suck it up, Buttercup. Life isn't roses and there are a lot of nasty people out there.

I have a nephew who is trans and is in the middle of his sex change. I sometimes flub up because the gender to me stuck when he was a baby and all of us put those frilly pink things on him, and until puberty he liked skirts and what not. When puberty hit, he changed. Now there is no mistaking the guy is a guy by looking at him. He has a trend for rainbow colored hair.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

For anyone not familiar with Gender Critical Feminism, it is a subset of radical feminism that holds that because female subjugation is biological, you can't opt into or identify into being female. Subjugation includes but isn't limited to menstrual huts, forced birthing, rape, FGM, period taxes, and AIDS patients raping virgins because of the myth it cures AIDS.

Gender Critical feminism also wants to eliminate the social penalty for GNC [gender non conforming] behavior. If a male wants to wear perfume and call himself Tiffany he can and should.

It is not transphobia nor do we advocate violence or reduction of civil rights towards anyone.

In many situations there are coexisting mental illnesses with gender dysphoria. Those illnesses should be identified and treated. While calling someone by a name they don't use or a pronoun they don't like may be considered rude or disrespectful, it is not LITERAL SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

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Gender Critical feminism also wants to eliminate the social penalty for GNC [gender non conforming] behavior. If a male wants to wear perfume and call himself Tiffany he can and should.

I'm liking this a whole lot. I am dismayed to see gender roles becoming more rigid. Pick one, and if you identify with traditional male or female characteristics yet are the other, just get yourself "fixed," as opposed to questioning why society makes gender roles such a big hairy fucking deal.

I use myself as an example. From the time I reached menarche, I absolutely loathed my period. It took me many years to realize: 1. my periods were not like those experienced by other women; 2. my feelings were a completely logical reaction to having two reproductive diseases. (PCOS and severe endometriosis which made my periods Hell.) I was marginalized by the medical community and to some extent by my family.

I heard it all during that time: that my periods were what made me a woman (ugh), my feelings were unnatural because my reproductive organs ensured I would someday experience A Woman's Greatest Calling^TM.

So just as Tiffany should be able to wear perfume, a woman should not be cast as a freak because she regards her reproductive organs and fertility to be a burden. Nor does it mean that she isn't a real woman and should change her gender.

Without reading the article I'm going to assume both these moos have too much time on their hands.

I know both gay and trans people who have had people make attempts on their lives simply for being gay/trans. I thought gay/trans rights were about allowing everyone regardless of sexual preference or identity to be treated equally, not feel that their life was threatened, not want to resort to suicide, feel safe in their daily activities and not be discriminated against.

It makes me sick to think that the focus of some has changed to the personal pronoun used and all this other nonsense. What good does it do anyone to focus on a personal pronoun? It is simply a power trip and people have lost their businesses and jobs based on saying the wrong pronoun. And who has the time or fortitude to keep up with the 2000 pages of etiquette and "awareness" that surround this.

My trans uncle told me that I should've been a man due to the CF thing, as a "real" woman is into pregnancy and babies and that a sex change would be understandable as I was "manish" for that reason. He was always acting masculine to make up for once being a female and if anyone ever called him a "she" he would find a way to sue if possible.

He even said that my hetrosexual marriage with my CF husband is a "gay" relationship because we don't have kids.

It is all an ego thing with many of these people.

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cfdavep
My trans uncle told me that I should've been a man due to the CF thing, as a "real" woman is into pregnancy and babies and that a sex change would be understandable as I was "manish" for that reason. He was always acting masculine to make up for once being a female and if anyone ever called him a "she" he would find a way to sue if possible.

He even said that my hetrosexual marriage with my CF husband is a "gay" relationship because we don't have kids.

It is all an ego thing with many of these people.

Moos aren't the only ones gone stupid over brats! Duhs have the stupids too. The reverse is also true.

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

I'm really not up for getting into arguments with anybody here*, but I will clarify this-- when I said online harassment should be punishable, I meant actual harassment, not trolling.

*As usual with discussions, I agree with some things said here and disagree with others. But I know multiple trans people, and some of the stuff being said here is outright bigotry, so I think it best if I just step back. I've said what I think, and I don't believe any minds will be changed with arguing.

Yeah. ITA. Harassment and threats of violence are a step above trolling. They are against the law IRL, and they are also against the law online. It's just too bad that people can't control themselves either way. I think referring to someone with an undesired pronoun does NOT constitute harassment or threats, but with everyone being so overly sensitive about things, I guess it's something more that the courts will have to sort out.

Just to add...I hope I haven't said anything here that would constitute bigotry online. I try to consider everyone's feelings, but I'm far from perfect with a lot of stuff. Hope that I haven't offended anyone here.

I think it is an issue of who people are as people ethically, trans, black, gay or whatever. I don't know what kind of person my uncle would have been as a woman. Proably a breeder moo

Nah, mum, you're fine.

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cfdavep
I think it is an issue of who people are as people ethically, trans, black, gay or whatever. I don't know what kind of person my uncle would have been as a woman. Proably a breeder moo

Yep. There are problem children in every group.

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kittehpeoples
Nah, mum, you're fine.

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cfdavep
I think it is an issue of who people are as people ethically, trans, black, gay or whatever. I don't know what kind of person my uncle would have been as a woman. Proably a breeder moo

Yep. There are problem children in every group.

Hey, thanks kittehpeoples!

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mumofsixbirds

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kittehpeoples
Nah, mum, you're fine.

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cfdavep
I think it is an issue of who people are as people ethically, trans, black, gay or whatever. I don't know what kind of person my uncle would have been as a woman. Proably a breeder moo

Yep. There are problem children in every group.

Hey, thanks kittehpeoples!

Of course! I don't want to do any splash damage with my crabbiness.