Moo troll will probably be sued

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cfdavep
My trans uncle told me that I should've been a man due to the CF thing, as a "real" woman is into pregnancy and babies and that a sex change would be understandable as I was "manish" for that reason. He was always acting masculine to make up for once being a female and if anyone ever called him a "she" he would find a way to sue if possible.

He even said that my hetrosexual marriage with my CF husband is a "gay" relationship because we don't have kids.

It is all an ego thing with many of these people.

Suing someone for using the wrong pronoun is not only fucking insane but a willingness to do so proves the point of Gender Critical feminism.

The social contagion aspect of this is real. Trying to convince someone else that they're trans is not a normal behavior.

This is straight up disturbing. People can identify however they want, but they can't force others to address them in kind. Using police resources & the courts to enforce this kind of fascism is something straight out of 1984. And I say that as a progressive lesbian autistic woman (who is probably "different" in a lot of other ways as well). I support the right of trans people to have equal job opportunities, housing, marriage & basic human dignity in public spaces, but their right to swing their fist ends where my nose begins.

I don't know anything about this case other than an anonymous "mum" referred to a trans "mum" as "he" (or was it "she"?) on the internet, but if that's all that happened to trigger a lawsuit then the UK is going in the wrong direction. Y'all act like you don't have real crimes to solve or something. Sheesh. Masculine women get "misgendered" all the freaking time in public & we don't fly off the handle & sue people or knock over shelves like the "It is MA'AM!" person in that viral video. And I know not all trans folks behave that way, but there is a level of entitlement among SOME trans people that is setting the movement back & this is a great example of that.

Of course online bullying is shitty & you shouldn't say things online you wouldn't say to someone's face. But it truly makes the individual look trashy when they do that. Let them dig their own grave by not responding or reporting their post to the admins instead of getting the law involved.

I think if someone wanted to be genuinely abusive to a trans person, they would do FAR worse than using the incorrect preferred pronoun. They'd probably resort to actual violence or threats of violence. I'd chalk up using "he" instead of "she" and vice versa along the same lines of petty bullshit as calling someone by the wrong name on purpose (like Endora never calling Darryl by his actual name in Bewitched). It's more annoying than anything, but it's certainly not harassment.

But I also don't know what else this Moo was saying to this person, so there may have been legit harassment happening. I'd really like to know more.

Fuck transphobes. Or don't. I don't want them spreading their crap. And fuck all TERFs (and their awful awful bangs). People should be able to identify wear and express themselves how they want (again, until TERFS give up the awful bangs and just let us alternative and goth kids have them again- why must humanity ruin innocent trilbys and bangs??). Hope the transphobe has consequences for threatening people in real life on a forum. It's seriously not defensible under any devils advocate and not cool.

benevolent Anti-natalist, pro-abortion, pro-smut, anti-sleeze, eat the rich, fuck childbirth. pro-black, lgbtqia? Cool. *thumbs up*

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nightfire

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kittehpeoples

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cfinboston
There's no rationale for this at all.

No rationale to "harassment should have consequences"?

And by "gender Critical feminist" do you happen to mean "terf"?

There are a number of critical feminists here. Being critical means being skeptical of claims, and not accepting a claim as fact without sufficient evidence.

The current trans trend is all too similar to the previous mental illness fads of ADHD, Bipolar, and Autism. Many people see some of these traits in their own personality, they assume they have it, and then start acting like they have it.

Only this time this fad also had the treatment equivalent and permanence of lobotomy, in that the 'treatment' is a surgical and medical treatment of a psychological condition. In this case, instead of icepicks to the brain, it is hormone blockers, man-created equivalents of male or female hormones, and occasionally amputation, removal or alteration of nomal body parts to fit in a created equivalent of male or female 'genitalia.'

Real trans people are rare. However this trend is making this number artificially inflated, it is primarily a product of social contagion, and what seems to be a shit ton of Autogynophilia fetish coming out of the woodwork. Autogynophilia is the sexual fetish of becoming or imagining oneself as a woman, and is not the same as being truely dysphoric.

People should not have to feel scared (or even be threatened) by being skeptical of something like this, or afraid of threats of inadvertently inducing another person to self-harm. There is a massive need for critical and objective thinking here, and it is not getting it. There is a very serious lack of objectivity around a psychological condition that suddenly lots of people are claiming or wanting themselves or others to have, of which the normal treatment for this rare conditions tends to create some very serious and permanent degrees of hormonal and physiological alterations, that which too many laypeople seem to be ignorant or misinformed about. It's a dangerous thing, because there will be real people caught up in this hurting and damaged and potentially suicidal after the novelty wears off and the reality of what they did to themselves becomes apparent, because other people were afraid of hurting their feelings or calling bullshit on the heavy level pseudo-science that seems to have arisen around this 'movement.'

Critical feminists don't hate trans people. It is just hate of the tumor of a movement that seems to have emerged in 2011 and is almost scarily cult-like, of which criticism or skepticism is labeled as evil, and threatened with violence or causing self-harm or suicide in others.

AMEN! I'm tired of hearing the slur of 'TERF' aimed at any woman who doesn't believe in the existence of the 'female penis' or who doesn't want biological males to be allowed to use women's locker rooms.

I predict in 15 - 20 years we'll look back in horror at the children who were mutilated.

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moonmoonthegreat
Fuck transphobes. Or don't. I don't want them spreading their crap. And fuck all TERFs (and their awful awful bangs). People should be able to identify wear and express themselves how they want (again, until TERFS give up the awful bangs and just let us alternative and goth kids have them again- why must humanity ruin innocent trilbys and bangs??). Hope the transphobe has consequences for threatening people in real life on a forum. It's seriously not defensible under any devils advocate and not cool.

Pointing out that women don't have male genitalia is not a threat, it's merely stating the obvious.

I think that there are some people who want a sex change due to serious psychological problems, thinking if they are someone else things will be better. I also heard of teens doing the "trans thing" without surgery to rebel against their parents and to try to figure out who they are, but their are people who are just born the wrong gender and it REALLY comes online when they hit the teen years, all this being caused by something went wrong in the womb, I think.

These people can't change their DNA or fully be like a bio female/male, but the whole trans thing has made modern society even more complicated. The library here has gone gender free with the bathrooms and I actually had a guy who looked like Vito from the Sopranos pretty much race me to the gender free bathroom that was free and he won. It was kinda a weird feeling as it used to be the men's room.

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cfdavep
I think that there are some people who want a sex change due to serious psychological problems, thinking if they are someone else things will be better. I also heard of teens doing the "trans thing" without surgery to rebel against their parents and to try to figure out who they are, but their are people who are just born the wrong gender and it REALLY comes online when they hit the teen years, all this being caused by something went wrong in the womb, I think.

I've known men who really believe women have it easier in all aspects of life. Men with this kind of attitude would be in for a serious rude awakening if they were to become women. And men have no clue what women go through because if men are with us others don't pull the same crap on us that they do when there are no men present. There is a huge safety issue women face I doubt most consider.

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kittehpeoples
I'm really not up for getting into arguments with anybody here*, but I will clarify this-- when I said online harassment should be punishable, I meant actual harassment, not trolling.

*As usual with discussions, I agree with some things said here and disagree with others. But I know multiple trans people, and some of the stuff being said here is outright bigotry, so I think it best if I just step back. I've said what I think, and I don't believe any minds will be changed with arguing.

I've been away for a while and a bunch of this thread startled me sincerely. O.O

And I'm 41, not some radical tumblerina by a long shot.

It's just plain rude to suggest you are more authoritative about another person than they are about themselves, whether it's the question of a person's gender or their view on children. I compare an initial misgendering to asking a CF person when they plan to have children (a faulty assumption based on personal attitude), and the continued use of the wrong pronouns to bingoing (retrenchment of the rudeness). The person on the receiving end gets this shit all the fucking time, so no surprise they have no patience for it.

That said, I cannot imagine suing someone who bingos me online. It's ridiculous. I'd either avoid/block the person, or insult them back. Obviously the situation is different if threats were made, or if it took place in an office. (I didn't read the article, but from the comments I'm assuming neither of these two things were the case.)

If merely expressing a contrary opinion online in a dismissive fashion were a crime, many of us would be in trouble for our lingo. It should be noted that Mumsnet is in the UK, and the UK has some of the most ridiculous and strict libel laws, which has a chilling effect on free speech. As an example, consider how science writer Simon Singh was sued by the British Chiropractic Association for criticizing chiropracty. So in this case, even though I think the moo being sued is an ass, I consider the suit an abuse of a badly-designed law.

About gender in general, I feel that everything is much more strongly gendered than when I was a child. I can't help but wonder if gender fluidity is a response to the fact that people are no longer allowed to be people, without their desire to wear makeup being called feminine and their interest in cars being dubbed masculine. I have a strong preference for less, not more, gendering, but I still see no reason not to use a person's pronouns of choice (from the range of common pronouns) because it costs me nothing to be minimally polite.

I don't apply this observation to any of the trans people that I know, all of whom are perfectly able to exhibit a range of human behaviors without ascribing gender to it. (Nor does this observation apply to people who are biologically non-binary, although I don't personally know anyone in this situation.)

The only thing I am entirely unwilling to accept as falling into the range of human experience are those which are biological sex specific. While a person need not revel in their base, biological abilities in order to belong to a particular gender, those who do indulge in their animal biological capabilities while claiming to suffer gender dysmorphia are beyond my ken. Specifically, neither cis nor trans women have to desire pregnancy, but anyone who deliberately gets pregnant while claiming to be a man is full of shit.

I love my friend so much, because not only does he like dressing up as a girl, but he also has a wide variety of interests that have nothing to do with that. He loves cars and stuff, and he's the one who really got me into collecting antiques.

I like that he's so well-rounded in his interests. He's fun and funny, and an all-around great person. I really don't care what he likes to do in his spare time.

I wish that people would stop focusing on gender so much, and focus more on being better within themselves. People who are rude to others just because of how they identify isn't fair, because they could be rejecting someone based on something superficial. I like to look under the exterior and see what kind of person they are BEFORE judging.

I wish we lived in a world where people thought more about how their actions affect other people, but unfortunately, we don't. I'm thinking that the person who is launching the lawsuit HAS been picked on for their identity, but as I said before, that's not really a reason to sue an ignorant, stupid person.

I think that the words and actions of that moo is enough to make HER look like the fool, and it only shows her true colors. It says nothing about the person she's saying it about. Anyone with half a brain in their heads will see her for what she is. No need to sue.

If, however, she's making comments that are threatening or seriously harassing, the individual she's attacking should be able to protect themselves. I don't really think the moo crossed that line, but I don't know what the full circumstances are.