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Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident

Posted by cfdavep 
Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
July 29, 2019
https://www.yahoo.com/news/babies-dead-iraq-war-vet-162559074.html

The moo is saying he really didn't mean it and maybe PTSD could lead to such an accident, I don't know

One of the commenters are demanding that ALL cars have what cop cars now have where when the car hits 90F and no one is in the front, lights flash, the siren goes off and their phones are pinged.

Apparently this dumbass wants ALL cars to cost $5000 more at least for this feature to prevent parents from doing a nasty PNA. Some people ripped into the commenter and said that CF/CL/Retirees would be eating the cost for kids that will not be in their cars
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
July 29, 2019
For fuck's sake, there's another solution to this problem which is significantly cheaper: start charging everyone whose kid dies in a hot car with manslaughter or murder. Sure, it will cost a bit to prosecute and imprison the first few, but once this becomes routine you can be damn sure the number of deaths will diminish. Regretful breeders will move on to new methods of murder that aren't prosecuted.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
July 29, 2019
Quote
yurble
For fuck's sake, there's another solution to this problem which is significantly cheaper: start charging everyone whose kid dies in a hot car with manslaughter or murder. Sure, it will cost a bit to prosecute and imprison the first few, but once this becomes routine you can be damn sure the number of deaths will diminish. Regretful breeders will move on to new methods of murder that aren't prosecuted.

This right here. Expose PNAs for what they are and that'll be the end of kids dying in hot cars.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
July 29, 2019
There is no cure for stupid or space cadets. I wouldn't let anyone I know be alone with someone who suffers from PTSD, let alone children or pets. Even if this person isn't potentially harmful they could be unintentionally neglectful. What if this person has a habit of completely spacing out for no reason?

There isn't a feature in the world (or that can be added to cars to stop kids dying) which will stop people from doing stupid things. Proof of this is drivers...how many of them are perpetually lost? Last weekend I was behind 4 of them in a row who had no idea where they were going despite their in-state license plates, the availability of GPS in cars as a feature and their ability to use their phones as GPS. These were all late model suburban assault type vehicles, not 20 year old battered Hondas. There are also paper maps and brain memory that can be accessed. And I don't live in an area of tourism/big city either.

An utter idiot can plug in an address in a GPS and be guided pretty much anywhere but I see more local lost people on the roads now than I did 15 years ago (and prior to GPS).
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
July 30, 2019
Yeah, I dunno about PTSD causing him to roast his kid in a car. I suffer with what I would consider a mild form of PTSD from being a victim of violent crime in my childhood and I understand that PTSD can affect different people different ways.

I just don't know how it can cause a person to do something like this, though. I get nightmares and have a difficult time with intrusive thoughts about what happened to me, but in no way would I forget about my pet birds for even a second - especially when they're out and about. I suffer with chronic anxiety and depression. I also deal with severe startle responses and unexplainable physical ailments.

The chronic worry and anxiety I get usually keeps me from doing stupid things. I don't know how this guy is affected, but I don't see how this could explain his actions.

I'm thinking that this may be a convenient excuse which can garner sympathy and leniency in the court system. I do know that sometimes 'temporary insanity' can be used in court, but it's rarely successful unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Forgive me, I haven't yet read the story. I'm just going by what's written here and my own experiences. I'll give the article a read later. It might help me understand better, but I don't think I'll be changing my opinion.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
July 31, 2019
Quote
mumofsixbirds
Yeah, I dunno about PTSD causing him to roast his kid in a car. I suffer with what I would consider a mild form of PTSD from being a victim of violent crime in my childhood and I understand that PTSD can affect different people different ways.

I definitely didn't mean to imply anyone having PTSD isn't able to be around kids or pets. Sorry if I gave that impression mumofsixbirds.

So, he either had a crappy analysis (or no analysis) or someone threw out PTSD as an excuse. If it turns out he was diagnosed with PTSD and they can prove this accident was a result of that and he wasn't warned to avoid children then it might be blamed on the person who diagnosed him. I think the odds are against this.

Quote
mumofsixbirds
I'm thinking that this may be a convenient excuse which can garner sympathy and leniency in the court system. I do know that sometimes 'temporary insanity' can be used in court, but it's rarely successful unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Agree this is the most likely scenario. I've also heard that an "insanity plea" no longer works and that places that house the insane are every bit as violent and bad as prisons.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 01, 2019
Quote
freya
Quote
mumofsixbirds
Yeah, I dunno about PTSD causing him to roast his kid in a car. I suffer with what I would consider a mild form of PTSD from being a victim of violent crime in my childhood and I understand that PTSD can affect different people different ways.

I definitely didn't mean to imply anyone having PTSD isn't able to be around kids or pets. Sorry if I gave that impression mumofsixbirds.

So, he either had a crappy analysis (or no analysis) or someone threw out PTSD as an excuse. If it turns out he was diagnosed with PTSD and they can prove this accident was a result of that and he wasn't warned to avoid children then it might be blamed on the person who diagnosed him. I think the odds are against this.

Quote
mumofsixbirds
I'm thinking that this may be a convenient excuse which can garner sympathy and leniency in the court system. I do know that sometimes 'temporary insanity' can be used in court, but it's rarely successful unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Agree this is the most likely scenario. I've also heard that an "insanity plea" no longer works and that places that house the insane are every bit as violent and bad as prisons.

Oh, absolutely. I didn't even equate what you mentioned to what I said below. No worries there. smiling smiley

I also forgot to mention that with a lot of people who suffer with PTSD, they are what's called "hypervigilant" which would prevent them from doing something like this. I'm hypervigilant about a lot of things, especially where my safety, as well as my pets' safety is always at the forefront of my mind.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 02, 2019
I don't know if any of you guys saw this, but this dude gave a very staged performance on U.S. National news last night. It was completely infuriating.

For loudly proclaiming his innocence, this guy should be on a stage somewhere clutching an Oscar--he is really pulling/playing the parental victim card. When he appeared in court, he was carrying around his older, un-murdered chyld, sobbing for the cameras for maximum effect. He and his wife were both doing that faux, no-tears sobbing crap. And the story said these morons are unabashedly asking for all car manufactures to install warning systems at $5,000 each to prevent Fyooooture Tragedies of this nature.

I'm sorry to report the latest--the NY prosecutor has declared the decision whether to prosecute is "on hold." WTH does that even mean? I'm hoping it does not mean what I think it means--that they are waiting until some other big news day, like a mass shooting, to quietly announce no prosecution because they have Suffered EnoughTM.

There is a lot that is suspicious about this:

1. When he went to his car and supposedly "found" his children, he was yelling "it's not my fault" at the scene. I found that a VERY ODD thing to say. And also, these are YOUR crotch fruit and they are in YOUR CAR....who else would be at fault? I do believe that these situations can be a result of true forgetfulness because we humans have imperfect brains. It has happened to me before--I had cats in carriers in my car and missed the exit to the vet, was on autopilot going to work. HOWEVER, I would not have forgot them because I deliberately put my work back there with them. The "forgotten chyld syndrome" is not new. It's ALL OVER THE PRESS NOW. ANYONE who is transporting something alive must take appropriate precautions, so I do not cut this parunt any break. He needs to be prosecuted.

2. There were TWO of these crotch fruit in the back of the car and they were a YEAR OLD. What is the likelihood that both of them were asleep? Plus don't kids that age babble? I cannot believe they were not making noise and he could have forgot them.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 02, 2019
I live in NY and I noticed that the case is "on hold" I never heard of a case being "on hold" But in NY there are people working as activist types to change the law to put expensive crap in cars to "prevent this from happneing again"

Some on tv left her car unlocked and her kid crawled in, in the heat and died. Due to guilt moo became an activist against the "unsafe car companies" The car companies will probably cave for PR reasons, so if you are CF or a retiree, the future of cars may mean a two seater.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 02, 2019
If cars are too unsafe for these idiots, they should take the fuckin' bus.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 02, 2019
Quote
bell_flower
1. When he went to his car and supposedly "found" his children, he was yelling "it's not my fault" at the scene. I found that a VERY ODD thing to say. And also, these are YOUR crotch fruit and they are in YOUR CAR....who else would be at fault?

I agree, that's not normal. If I left one of my kitties in a car, you would *never* be able to convince me it wasn't my fault. I would live under that guilt for the rest of my life. My first reaction would not be, "You can't blame me!"

And mum, I agree. If they can't safely operate a car, they shouldn't have one. Or better yet, they shouldn't have kids.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 04, 2019
I have to wonder if the judge asked this guy if he remembered his fucking cellphone in the car. My guess is, the judge did not ask him any such thing.

I agree that these people need to be charged with manslaughter.

There was no such thing as hot-car deaths when I was a kid in the 1970's.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 05, 2019
Quote
selidororous
I have to wonder if the judge asked this guy if he remembered his fucking cellphone in the car. My guess is, the judge did not ask him any such thing.

I agree that these people need to be charged with manslaughter.

There was no such thing as hot-car deaths when I was a kid in the 1970's.

And there weren't cell phones that could be left in cars in the 1970's either but somehow no hot-car deaths either. Guess parents must have used their brains back then.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 05, 2019
Quote
mumofsixbirds
Oh, absolutely. I didn't even equate what you mentioned to what I said below. No worries there. smiling smiley

I also forgot to mention that with a lot of people who suffer with PTSD, they are what's called "hypervigilant" which would prevent them from doing something like this. I'm hypervigilant about a lot of things, especially where my safety, as well as my pets' safety is always at the forefront of my mind.
Oh good! This makes sense. So if this man does have PTSD then he would likely be "hypervigilant" and he certainly wasn't. For him it is sounding more like a manufactured excuse all the time and that only hurts the perception of people who have PTSD.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 05, 2019
Quote
bell_flower
I don't know if any of you guys saw this, but this dude gave a very staged performance on U.S. National news last night. It was completely infuriating.

For loudly proclaiming his innocence, this guy should be on a stage somewhere clutching an Oscar--he is really pulling/playing the parental victim card. When he appeared in court, he was carrying around his older, un-murdered chyld, sobbing for the cameras for maximum effect. He and his wife were both doing that faux, no-tears sobbing crap. And the story said these morons are unabashedly asking for all car manufactures to install warning systems at $5,000 each to prevent Fyooooture Tragedies of this nature.

I'm sorry to report the latest--the NY prosecutor has declared the decision whether to prosecute is "on hold." WTH does that even mean? I'm hoping it does not mean what I think it means--that they are waiting until some other big news day, like a mass shooting, to quietly announce no prosecution because they have Suffered EnoughTM.

There is a lot that is suspicious about this:

1. When he went to his car and supposedly "found" his children, he was yelling "it's not my fault" at the scene. I found that a VERY ODD thing to say. And also, these are YOUR crotch fruit and they are in YOUR CAR....who else would be at fault? I do believe that these situations can be a result of true forgetfulness because we humans have imperfect brains. It has happened to me before--I had cats in carriers in my car and missed the exit to the vet, was on autopilot going to work. HOWEVER, I would not have forgot them because I deliberately put my work back there with them. The "forgotten chyld syndrome" is not new. It's ALL OVER THE PRESS NOW. ANYONE who is transporting something alive must take appropriate precautions, so I do not cut this parunt any break. He needs to be prosecuted.

2. There were TWO of these crotch fruit in the back of the car and they were a YEAR OLD. What is the likelihood that both of them were asleep? Plus don't kids that age babble? I cannot believe they were not making noise and he could have forgot them.

Everyone must pay a penalty for a stoopid parent. How about stoopid parents having the OPTION to purchase an application for their phone, door device or similar solution that takes care of this issue instead of making society at large pay?

Most of us don't have $5,000 sitting around to be pissed away on something this stupid.

Likely the NY prosecutor is up for re-election or something so that requires kowtowing to voters.
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 05, 2019
Quote
freya
Oh good! This makes sense. So if this man does have PTSD then he would likely be "hypervigilant" and he certainly wasn't. For him it is sounding more like a manufactured excuse all the time and that only hurts the perception of people who have PTSD.

Exactly. I think he's banking on a combination of "you must respect veterans!"/"the parents have suffered enough"/"you can't blame the mentally ill" to get by with a PNA.

Quote
freya
Everyone must pay a penalty for a stoopid parent. How about stoopid parents having the OPTION to purchase an application for their phone, door device or similar solution that takes care of this issue instead of making society at large pay?

And if they don't buy the option and "accidentally" murder their child this way, they're blocked from suing anyone, starting a GFM, or claiming "I forgot" as a defense....
Re: Iraqi vet claim hot car death really was an accident
August 05, 2019
Unless the guy disassociated due to SEVERE PTSD and thought he was back in Iraq running from bombs. People would notice though as he would be hollaring for help, that would be a real public freak out. I have heard of PTSD being that bad. A guy here locked himself in his basement and the guy's teen son had to call 911 as his father was threatening to kill himself thinking firecrackers were bullets flying overheard. If it got that bad with this guy people would notice, but if this guy just walked away normally from the car that looks bad as a common characteristic of the disorder is OCD like hypervigiliance where danger is everywhere. He would be worried about his kids and checking to make sure they are ok.
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