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"A letter to my friends with babies"
Posted by yurble
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"A letter to my friends with babies" September 22, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,434 |
Open letter about one-sided friendships with breeders
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It happens every time. I know it will, and I don’t begrudge it. Except I do, a bit. It’s happened so often, and now that I’m in my late 40s, and I am so practised at this, I can’t help but have the same awful thought every time a friend announces she is pregnant: “Well, there goes another friendship.”
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Years back, a friend announced that she was moving closer to me, and I blurted out, “Great! Maybe we can have a night out together!” Without even pausing to consider the option, she said, “I’m a mum now!” Her tone was plain: how could I make this suggestion to someone with such weighty responsibilities?
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I wonder if my friends will want to re-establish our connection when their children leave home. I wonder why, just once a year, they can’t find a babysitter or leave the kids with their partner so we can talk and drink good wine on my patio, without their children throwing gravel into the neighbour’s garden.
What I don’t wonder, though, is if I can ever say these words to them – because I know I cannot. As a woman without children, I am supposed to just “understand” that relationships change, and change will always mean a sad lessening of ties for me.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 22, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 23, 2019 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 3,842 |
amy had a similar letter today (at least through google news). Couple visits with childed relatives and all they can do is talk about the drool factories. In one sense, amy had it correct: we talk about what we're involved with and since the relatives drank the kool aid, kids are their only focus. (some manage to avoid that trap though). she said the letter writer should be more tolerant. I took the time to send amy an email stating that she should have told the writers to make other friends and other interests.
booooring. who cares about the kids shit to the nth detail.
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
booooring. who cares about the kids shit to the nth detail.
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 23, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,973 |
I think some of these breeders just drown in their parenthood roles and they stop knowing how to be people instead of just someone's mommy. They "can't" go out for a normal adult evening of drinking and entertainment with friends because their brats will spontaneously combust in the care of a sitter and their partners are useless lumps who can't be entrusted with child care either. Or they have no money or they're too tired or nothing to wear or a million other reasons that all boil down to, "being your friend is too much work now, but oh, keep in touch in case I need a favor."
It's not impossible to make time for a friend, but breeders just don't feel like doing it, which is why fun times with friends usually occur with the kids in tow so the friend can be a partial babysitter.
The fact of the matter is when people breed, they no longer give a shit about your friendship. You kind of become a footnote in their life, but if they need something - especially money - suddenly you're BFFs again. Yes it's a big life change, but it's possible to be a parent and a friend. It's just it requires effort most breeders aren't willing to put forth, which is why friendships with parents fizzle out so easily.
It's often good to assume that when someone breeds, they become demoted to acquaintance. It sucks, but they won't want to make time for you anymore, so no sense pining for a dead friendship.
It's not impossible to make time for a friend, but breeders just don't feel like doing it, which is why fun times with friends usually occur with the kids in tow so the friend can be a partial babysitter.
The fact of the matter is when people breed, they no longer give a shit about your friendship. You kind of become a footnote in their life, but if they need something - especially money - suddenly you're BFFs again. Yes it's a big life change, but it's possible to be a parent and a friend. It's just it requires effort most breeders aren't willing to put forth, which is why friendships with parents fizzle out so easily.
It's often good to assume that when someone breeds, they become demoted to acquaintance. It sucks, but they won't want to make time for you anymore, so no sense pining for a dead friendship.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 24, 2019 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 5,630 |
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Cambion
I think some of these breeders just drown in their parenthood roles and they stop knowing how to be people instead of just someone's mommy.
Ding ding ding! Winner winner chicken dinner!
They don't know how to be themselves because they're so out of practice. And I think a lot of them are actually really conflicted about this loss of self, but they squash it away rather than deal with it. They convince themselves that it's an either/or situation. Mom OR adult friend. Can't do both, it's too much work.
Sad.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 25, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 4,091 |
Sounds like my former best friend. Could have sworn she was CF, but then - oops! No time for me at all anymore, and the baybeedaddy was apparently useless (and he already had 2 other brats of his own). Would only see her when it was Baybee's birthday - yay, present! Dumped her for good after she said she had gotten knocked up again.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 28, 2019 | Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 651 |
It is unbelievable what I was told by some of my friends after breeding, about can't do this or can't do that w/ me, ...the sad thing is...they never wanted to just leave the kid w/ hub one afternoon and go for a fucking coffee w/ me. But at the same time feel dragged down by moohood. They have solutions, but they refuse to see them.
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 28, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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cfuter
It is unbelievable what I was told by some of my friends after breeding, about can't do this or can't do that w/ me, ...the sad thing is...they never wanted to just leave the kid w/ hub one afternoon and go for a fucking coffee w/ me. But at the same time feel dragged down by moohood. They have solutions, but they refuse to see them.
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
Because of my special needs, my mother had to do much more for me than other mothers with their kids, but she was absolutely insistent on my doing for myself when I could. That included my making my own phone calls, even the dull ones, while she sat by to step in when I floundered. By the time I was in my 30s and 40s, I was able to handle all my medical needs and arrange my rides.
Right before she was hospitalized for the last time, she apologized for not leaving me an inheritance. I told her she did; she handed me myself.
+++++++++++++
Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 28, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,832 |
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craftyzits
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cfuter
It is unbelievable what I was told by some of my friends after breeding, about can't do this or can't do that w/ me, ...the sad thing is...they never wanted to just leave the kid w/ hub one afternoon and go for a fucking coffee w/ me. But at the same time feel dragged down by moohood. They have solutions, but they refuse to see them.
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
Because of my special needs, my mother had to do much more for me than other mothers with their kids, but she was absolutely insistent on my doing for myself when I could. That included my making my own phone calls, even the dull ones, while she sat by to step in when I floundered. By the time I was in my 30s and 40s, I was able to handle all my medical needs and arrange my rides.
Right before she was hospitalized for the last time, she apologized for not leaving me an inheritance. I told her she did; she handed me myself.
Aww, craftyzits, for some reason this really strikes me in the heart. Your mom sounds like she loved you so much, and gave you as much independence as she could, but she stood by you to help if things got tough.
You are so right. Money doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. What your mother left you with was so much more important than that.
Thank you for sharing this story.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 28, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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mumofsixbirds
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craftyzits
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cfuter
It is unbelievable what I was told by some of my friends after breeding, about can't do this or can't do that w/ me, ...the sad thing is...they never wanted to just leave the kid w/ hub one afternoon and go for a fucking coffee w/ me. But at the same time feel dragged down by moohood. They have solutions, but they refuse to see them.
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
Because of my special needs, my mother had to do much more for me than other mothers with their kids, but she was absolutely insistent on my doing for myself when I could. That included my making my own phone calls, even the dull ones, while she sat by to step in when I floundered. By the time I was in my 30s and 40s, I was able to handle all my medical needs and arrange my rides.
Right before she was hospitalized for the last time, she apologized for not leaving me an inheritance. I told her she did; she handed me myself.
Aww, craftyzits, for some reason this really strikes me in the heart. Your mom sounds like she loved you so much, and gave you as much independence as she could, but she stood by you to help if things got tough.
You are so right. Money doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. What your mother left you with was so much more important than that.
Thank you for sharing this story.
Indeed, if I did not have the parent I had, I would now, if I were still alive, be sitting in an institution or some kind of group home.
I am in independent specialized mental health housing, not because I can't handle my own matters but because when my parents died I had to handle everything myself and my health took a real hit. I am mostly here because I have a history of bad falls, including down a 9-foot stair case, stroke, and a month long coma because autistic people get hit with age related problems much earlier due to severe and chronic stress. I have the autism, bi-polar, and schizophrenia. I'm in the mental health housing because there's no such thing as housing for those with physical problems. I do have the mental health paperwork that made it work.
+++++++++++++
Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 29, 2019 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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cfuter
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
I used to think, once their kid are past the little kid age (5 or so) we can hang out again. Nope because we live in the age of overindulgence and hyper vigilance. Then I thought by 13 we can hang out. Again, no because neediness is ingrained by that age. Even past the teenaged years and into adulthood there is no doubt that the brats will be calling and asking their parents how to do everything and the parents will spend hours with them on the phone at a time. Then their brats will sprog and the grandparents will be expected to do everything. It is a never ending cycle.
When I was a kid parents were thrilled that by age 5 we could mostly entertain ourselves and at least keep our room clean. By age 7-8 we could make simple meals and clean up the house and after ourselves. By around 9-10 we could do most anything for ourselves. I don't recall ever calling my dad at work as a kid. I work around people who have an open continuous line of communication with their brats. They call their parents for any stupid excuse you can think of because their parents never bothered to set boundaries with them and explain what warrants a work interruption.
A month ago a college kid called his mom at work to interrupt her and complain about how hot it is outside. And he went on and on about it. What the hell did he expect her to do about it, anyways? We're talking no coping skills whatsoever!
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 29, 2019 | Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 298 |
yeah, and for the most part, don't hold your breath for when the kids are grown and married. One former friend who I admired greatly, has recently taken to spending the whole time she is with me/us accepting calls and texts from the kids and grand kids! This horribly annoying cricket sound and here comes another "darling and SO funny" text from them.Then she has to explain to us why it's so great and read the interchanges--all the while her GUESTS sit there and can't finish a sentence before the next interruption! Sad to lose another one!
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 29, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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freya
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cfuter
It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
I used to think, once their kid are past the little kid age (5 or so) we can hang out again. Nope because we live in the age of overindulgence and hyper vigilance. Then I thought by 13 we can hang out. Again, no because neediness is ingrained by that age. Even past the teenaged years and into adulthood there is no doubt that the brats will be calling and asking their parents how to do everything and the parents will spend hours with them on the phone at a time. Then their brats will sprog and the grandparents will be expected to do everything. It is a never ending cycle.
When I was a kid parents were thrilled that by age 5 we could mostly entertain ourselves and at least keep our room clean. By age 7-8 we could make simple meals and clean up the house and after ourselves. By around 9-10 we could do most anything for ourselves. I don't recall ever calling my dad at work as a kid. I work around people who have an open continuous line of communication with their brats. They call their parents for any stupid excuse you can think of because their parents never bothered to set boundaries with them and explain what warrants a work interruption.
A month ago a college kid called his mom at work to interrupt her and complain about how hot it is outside. And he went on and on about it. What the hell did he expect her to do about it, anyways? We're talking no coping skills whatsoever!
My mother had two children who were ill, one physically with uncontrollable asthma, other mentally with three separate mental conditions, two would bloom fully when I was in my late teens, although autism could be called a physical condition. Despite this, my mother retained several close friendships and a full time career. She danced and taught dance for 25 years, then worked in the government until her retirement. If we were healthy, we were expected to entertain ourselves while Mom visited friends or worked. I spent my teenage years as a latchkey kid and I would per instructions call my mother to let her know I got home safely. My sped status meant that these calls were required as I was several years behind my peers. The 1980s meant there was no cell phone that was within the financial means of lower income folks like my parents.
I grew up CF, and my sister grew up and had three children. My sister also had several close friendships. Her kids were expected to entertain themselves like she and I were expected to do. One of her children was murdered and two are living adult lives, both are CF.
+++++++++++++
Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 29, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,973 |
Parents are so scared now to not hold their kids' hands 24/7, even when they get a little older. It's why they won't leave kids with sitters, and since Moos are such control freaks who think only they know how to be good parents, they won't entrust their kids' fathers to watch those kids for a few hours. Or they've coddled the kids so much that even at an age where a child should be able to handle being alone for a few hours, Moos can't let them do that. I remember being damn near 18 and my mother refused to stay out late at a New Year's Eve party because she felt she needed to be home with me in case someone tried to break into the house. I think barring major behavioral problems, a kid should be able to handle being home alone for a bit starting at maybe age 9 or 10?
Kids will not shrivel up and die if they're under someone else's watch or left to their own devices for a bit! They aren't that delicate! I think these Moos are scared that someone else might be able to do their jobs just as well (fathers) or their kids don't need Mommy as much as they think, so they insist they have to be home minding the brats constantly and that's why they have no time for friends. I think they just don't want to have to admit that they aren't as important as they want to be and they're willing to sacrifice all other relationships in order to continue to lie to themselves.
It's sad because many of these Moos think that mommyhood is all they've got, so they hang onto it for dear life.
Kids will not shrivel up and die if they're under someone else's watch or left to their own devices for a bit! They aren't that delicate! I think these Moos are scared that someone else might be able to do their jobs just as well (fathers) or their kids don't need Mommy as much as they think, so they insist they have to be home minding the brats constantly and that's why they have no time for friends. I think they just don't want to have to admit that they aren't as important as they want to be and they're willing to sacrifice all other relationships in order to continue to lie to themselves.
It's sad because many of these Moos think that mommyhood is all they've got, so they hang onto it for dear life.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 30, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 721 |
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freya
A month ago a college kid called his mom at work to interrupt her and complain about how hot it is outside. And he went on and on about it. What the hell did he expect her to do about it, anyways? We're talking no coping skills whatsoever!
Another story from 20 years in Residence Life at a major university: I ran a computer help desk where the students could call and get someone to come out and fix a problem with their computers, printers, wi-fi hookup, etc. (As long as it was necessary for schoolwork. We didn't send out techs to fix problems with gaming consoles, TVs, or anything not related to studying.)
All the student had to do was call us. Instead, a great number of students would call Mom and Dad out in Podunk, Iowa (a good 3-hour flight away from the school) and complain to them that their technology wasn't working. Whereupon Mom/Dad would call us and ask to have someone come out to the dorm and fix little Jimmy's problem. We always made the parent call the kid back and tell her/him to call us directly, as we had to give them a work order number and set up a time they could be in their room to let us in. Apparently that was too much for the kid to handle, as we frequently had to argue with the parents about having their kid call us.
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Re: "A letter to my friends with babies" September 30, 2019 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 9,198 |
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When I was a kid parents were thrilled that by age 5 we could mostly entertain ourselves and at least keep our room clean. By age 7-8 we could make simple meals and clean up the house and after ourselves. By around 9-10 we could do most anything for ourselves. I don't recall ever calling my dad at work as a kid. I work around people who have an open continuous line of communication with their brats. They call their parents for any stupid excuse you can think of because their parents never bothered to set boundaries with them and explain what warrants a work interruption.
I was a latchkey kid at age 9. I was the first kid to get home from school. I had a BRIEF check-in call with my mom to let her know I got off the bus and was home. I kept the doors locked and started my homework and dinner. My DH had a similar existence and didn't need to check in with his parents for every little thing. Calling his parents at work was a LONG DISTANCE call, back when intra-state calls were the most expensive. He remembers only calling his mom once, when somebody broke their arm.
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It gets no better w/ the modern moo too. My friends kids now are in college and high school, if I do go for a walk w/ her, she's still looking at her watch, running off. What for? Especially after high school, my mommy wasn't doing anything for me and I never needed her home by a certain time...ever. But when you have given them their every need via SUV and cell phone, the teens still can't do shit for themselves I guess.
I'd like to tell you it gets better when the kids are up and out, but that's not been my experience.
Example A: One of my best friends, who is about 10 years older than I am, was a very sane person and a PNB. She really had her shit together. But then her cunt daughter just had to sprog despite being in an unhappy marriage. (They separated at the three month mark but got back together.) My friend was like "yay, Babies!" and retired to become the kids' babysitter. (Because people in bad marriages must sprog multiple times.) Her cunt daughter could afford daycare, but insisted on running her mom into the ground with the free babysitting. This was after the predictable divorce and after the mom was diagnosed with a fatal neurological disease. I drifted off my friend's radar and I doubt she even noticed.
Example B: I have a group of friends from high school and the last time one of the group came into town, Friend A. did not come out with us all weekend. She was stuck at home, watching her grandbrat. This is the grandbrat of her unmarried son and his 20 year old girlfriend. All three live in my friend's house and are being supported by my friend and her husband. Friend A. missed a lunch because her son said, "I don't want you to take Baybee downtown to eat. She needs to stay in the suburbs where it's safe." Granted, I was very glad no baybee, but I could see where it would be galling to be ordered around by your son who is telling you how to take care of his kid when he cannot be arsed to watch his own kid. Friend A. needs to grow a damn spine and kick them all out of her house but she won't because GRANDBABY!
It's just really pathetic. What happened to "I did my job, now you do yours?" My mom always made it clear that she would not be supporting or taking care of any grandbrats, as it should be.
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