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Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams

Posted by yurble 
Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 09, 2020
At least, that's what Michele Obama says. No matter how accomplished a woman is, once she decides to have kids, it's the end of whatever she wants for her life. So much for household equality.

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Former first lady Michelle Obama said in a new Netflix documentary that having kids was a “concession” that cost her “aspirations and dreams.”

In the documentary “Becoming,” which was released Wednesday, Obama, 56, describes her life from childhood until her time in the White House as first lady.

“My relationship with Barack was all about our equal partnership,” she recalls. “If I was going to have a unique voice with this very opinionated man, I had to get myself up and set myself off to a place where I was going to be his equal.”

But the birth of their two daughters — Malia, 21, and Sasha, 18 — “changed” the dynamic of their relationship, she said.

“The thing that really changed it was the birth of our children. I wasn’t really ready for that. That really made it harder,” Obama says. “Something had to give and it was my aspirations and dreams.”

It always amazes me that women who are otherwise smart continue to fall into that trap.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 09, 2020
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yurble
It always amazes me that women who are otherwise smart continue to fall into that trap.

Were the brats planned?

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 09, 2020
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craftyzits
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yurble
It always amazes me that women who are otherwise smart continue to fall into that trap.

Were the brats planned?

Well, since the term "family planning" means NOT having kids, kids and pregnancies are Never planned.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 09, 2020
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mr. neptune
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craftyzits
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yurble
It always amazes me that women who are otherwise smart continue to fall into that trap.

Were the brats planned?

Well, since the term "family planning" means NOT having kids, kids and pregnancies are Never planned.

There are lots of Kodak moment obsessed idiots who plan to have children not thinking about the reality of breeding.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 09, 2020
I think Michelle Obama really wanted to be in Barack's life. He may have been one of those men who insisted on children (there are lots of men who do this). I would guess she is absolutely thrilled for them to be empty nesters now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she had thought it out before getting married and decided that she was willing to have kids to remain in Barack's life. As always, she likely underestimated just how much work brats are.

It isn't that difficult lurking wanna-breeders. Imagine waking up every morning absolutely thrilled to go work at a job just to get away from your brats. Or volunteer to watch a couple of kids for at least 5 days. See how much happier, relieved and satisfied you are with your life circumstances after they leave. Even a 350 ft. efficiency feels like paradise when you have 100% volume/chaos control over your circumstances. And everything is right where you left it, unharmed and nothing is covered with sticky gunk. The furniture is intact and there are no messy puddle surprises waiting for you.

I met many parents when I was working two jobs who would have traded places with me in an instant.

If men did 50% (or even 40%) of all the child rearing then the birth rate would fall dramatically and the new norm would be either 1 kid or no kid households. Women are still expected to do the lion's share of everything. I don't mind cleaning and cooking for myself. It is a completely different story to be stuck cleaning and cooking for a spouse. Seriously, are his legs broken? The work essentially doubles because two people are making messes. Of course, it is much easier to balance out the workload amongst a couple because both want to stay in the relationship and realize both have to contribute to make it work.

My favorite are the couples where the woman does everything and they decide to have a kid. How dumb can you be? Did you think there would be less messes? Less drudgery work? The do nothing husband would wake up and become Mr. Perfect? Even worse are these same women who decide having #2 makes sense in these circumstances and they want to "save the marriage." bemused eye roll

With children, many women stop buying clothing because all their clothes are ruined by children. Children exponentially add messes and grunt work. Moos spend every waking moment doing grunt work and if they aren't doing grunt work it is piling up and waiting for them.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 09, 2020
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freya
I think Michelle Obama really wanted to be in Barack's life. He may have been one of those men who insisted on children (there are lots of men who do this). I would guess she is absolutely thrilled for them to be empty nesters now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she had thought it out before getting married and decided that she was willing to have kids to remain in Barack's life. As always, she likely underestimated just how much work brats are.

It isn't that difficult lurking wanna-breeders. Imagine waking up every morning absolutely thrilled to go work at a job just to get away from your brats. Or volunteer to watch a couple of kids for at least 5 days. See how much happier, relieved and satisfied you are with your life circumstances after they leave. Even a 350 ft. efficiency feels like paradise when you have 100% volume/chaos control over your circumstances. And everything is right where you left it, unharmed and nothing is covered with sticky gunk. The furniture is intact and there are no messy puddle surprises waiting for you.

I met many parents when I was working two jobs who would have traded places with me in an instant.

If men did 50% (or even 40%) of all the child rearing then the birth rate would fall dramatically and the new norm would be either 1 kid or no kid households. Women are still expected to do the lion's share of everything. I don't mind cleaning and cooking for myself. It is a completely different story to be stuck cleaning and cooking for a spouse. Seriously, are his legs broken? The work essentially doubles because two people are making messes. Of course, it is much easier to balance out the workload amongst a couple because both want to stay in the relationship and realize both have to contribute to make it work.

My favorite are the couples where the woman does everything and they decide to have a kid. How dumb can you be? Did you think there would be less messes? Less drudgery work? The do nothing husband would wake up and become Mr. Perfect? Even worse are these same women who decide having #2 makes sense in these circumstances and they want to "save the marriage." bemused eye roll

With children, many women stop buying clothing because all their clothes are ruined by children. Children exponentially add messes and grunt work. Moos spend every waking moment doing grunt work and if they aren't doing grunt work it is piling up and waiting for them.

All of this is so if you don't have a defecto. A tard who will never live independantly will be a petard around your neck for your entire life.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 10, 2020
Barack clearly has had political aspirations since a young age, and part of that is having kids. It's really hard to advance politically and be CF. You have to project the "family man" image. I don't think people vote on issues as much as they vote on relatability.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 10, 2020
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It always amazes me that women who are otherwise smart continue to fall into that trap.

Word. Michelle Obama are the same age. We are old enough to have grown up in that time when it was still completely socially acceptable to marry what you wanted to be, rather than becoming that yourself.

My theory has always been, cut out the middleman and live the life you want. Although I never aspired to be rich or famous, I did want to support myself and I'm fortunate that I was able to do that. I moved around for my job and to advance my own career and I guess I'm somewhat proud of that.

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So much for household equality.

My clearly unromantic thoughts about this are that equality begins with being economically self supporting and being able to leave. I love my DH and he is a good guy but in any long partnership, even good ones, there are a handful of opportunities where you are training your spouse regarding what you will and won't put up with. People get comfortable with you. Comfortable is good but other things are not.

In my own case, we've had a handful of conversations where I've reminded him I'm not growing old with him if he turns into Old Man Grumpus or talks to me the way his father sometimes talks to his mother. I'm not at all nasty when we have these conversations because it's not a threat---it's a bonafide fact. I grew up with drunks who yelled or acted like assholes for any stupid reason and that's not how I'm spending my time between now and dead.

A childed woman or someone who is economically dependent on a partner wouldn't be in the same negotiating position. It's reality.

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Barack clearly has had political aspirations since a young age, and part of that is having kids. It's really hard to advance politically and be CF. You have to project the "family man" image. I don't think people vote on issues as much as they vote on relatability.

Even Hillary definitely had to tone herself down at various times of her life. Bill Clinton served one term as Governor of Arkansas from 79-81 and was voted out largely because he was not relatable with his "liberated wife." Hillary dyed her hair blond, assumed the Clinton surname and he was voted back in 1983 and served until he was elected president in 1992.

Hillary presented herself as someone who always wanted children and cites one of the low points in their marriage when she was trying to conceive and Bill was running around with Gennifer Flowers. I believe Hillary is a smart and shrewd person and I wonder if she had only one child to fulfill the political mandate, while allowing her to have a somewhat manageable life with her own aspirations. Having multiple children makes it harder to do that.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 10, 2020
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freya
I think Michelle Obama really wanted to be in Barack's life. He may have been one of those men who insisted on children (there are lots of men who do this). I would guess she is absolutely thrilled for them to be empty nesters now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she had thought it out before getting married and decided that she was willing to have kids to remain in Barack's life. As always, she likely underestimated just how much work brats are.

That's how I read it, too - he wanted kids and she went along with it in order to keep him, and then got stuck with most of the work.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 10, 2020
Since it is mother's day, I have to tell about my mother who is 90 years old, but this thread is so relevant to her. She had to give up her dreams to marry dad and have me.

It starts when she graduated high school in a small town in Kansas when she had a job at a local newspaper. She heard about a nursing program at the local hospital and after nursing school, found out about the Cadet Corp, which was affiliated with the US Navy. She entered the Navy as a general nurse. The Navy sent her to one of the best universities to get her RN. This was in the 1950s. She was a flight nurse and was on planes that brought back casualties from Korea and other parts of the world. She was based in Guam, flew once on a fighter plane, lived in Hawaii, saw the inside of a submarine, met some Navy brass, was later based in San Diego and traveled to Japan. So for her, it was "join the Navy, see the world!". And like I said, this was the 1950s, how many women back then could do all that?

In the late 50s, she met my dad, married him, and soon after had me. Back then, she was discharged from the Navy (honorably, it would have been less than honorable had she not been married) and soon settled with dad into Western PA.

Mom tells us that she is glad she had all of us, but I can tell she has a little bit of unsatisfaction. When she talks about her life, it is what took place before 1960. She did go to work later but I think being a mother and housewife for her in the 60s was dullsville. Mom has some narcissistic tendencies, I think it comes from this dissatisfaction.

I do understand, if I were her and had to give up this international life and the chance to be an Admiral or something like that, I think I would have said "Nooooooooooooooo!!!! if a guy asked "will you marry me"? But I guess in the 50s, women got married.

This thread is so right, having the kids WILL cost any dreams you have.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 10, 2020
Michelle can get away with saying this now that she is no longer FLOTUS, but had she made this statement when she was....it sounds like her husband "needed" that Golden Sprog to carry on the fambly name and legacy.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 11, 2020
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Ketchup
Barack clearly has had political aspirations since a young age, and part of that is having kids. It's really hard to advance politically and be CF. You have to project the "family man" image. I don't think people vote on issues as much as they vote on relatability.

What is weird is that they have to have brats to project the "family man" image but can be wealthier than sin and still be considered "relatable." That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. Normal people cannot afford to spend $80K on school per year for their grade school aged kids. Earning $80K a year is more than the average.

It also bothers me how relatability is more important than the issues but that comes from the majority of the population being unable to think critically.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 11, 2020
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freya
It also bothers me how relatability is more important than the issues but that comes from the majority of the population being unable to think critically.

In the USA our public school system isn't fit for purpose, or even as a babysitting function.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 11, 2020
In high school one of my classes was about politics. I can't remember what is was called because this was way back in the 80s, but I think everyone took it. One fine day the teacher asked us if we thought politicians should be married and have kids. A few people said they didn't care one way or the other, then a guy started spouting off about how he thought married-with-kids types were better. The teacher said many people believe politicians with families were more trustworthy. This guy was an idiot. All he ever wanted to do was get drunk and party. Unfortunately this is the type of person politicians have to cater to if they want to be successful.

Recently I heard the Unholy Shrub (George W. Bush) is not dumb, he's just really good at acting dumb because he knows that is what most people want. Not sure if I believe this, but it is something to think about. This world is damn depressing.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 11, 2020
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ondinette
Recently I heard the Unholy Shrub (George W. Bush) is not dumb, he's just really good at acting dumb because he knows that is what most people want. Not sure if I believe this, but it is something to think about. This world is damn depressing.

Compared to Trump, Bush is Genius level!

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 11, 2020
Quote
ondinette
Recently I heard the Unholy Shrub (George W. Bush) is not dumb, he's just really good at acting dumb because he knows that is what most people want. Not sure if I believe this, but it is something to think about. This world is damn depressing.

Certainly that's the approach that bumbling buffoon, Boris Johnson, is taking. He's busy playing the stupid class clown and people find it appealing for some reason. Although he's not actually stupid, his act has given everyone, including himself, low expectations, and consequently he's never really been inspired to learn anything from his mistakes.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 11, 2020
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freya
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Ketchup
Barack clearly has had political aspirations since a young age, and part of that is having kids. It's really hard to advance politically and be CF. You have to project the "family man" image. I don't think people vote on issues as much as they vote on relatability.

What is weird is that they have to have brats to project the "family man" image but can be wealthier than sin and still be considered "relatable." That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. Normal people cannot afford to spend $80K on school per year for their grade school aged kids. Earning $80K a year is more than the average.

It also bothers me how relatability is more important than the issues but that comes from the majority of the population being unable to think critically.

I don't understand that at all. I mean, I like to see female or minority politicians because it is indicative of decreasing bigotry, but I'm not going to vote for a woman just because she's a woman and I'm a woman. I want to relate to someone by feeling that the person is intelligent and shares my views on things that matter to me.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 14, 2020
"In the USA our public school system isn't fit for purpose, or even as a babysitting function."

crazy, I think it actually is becoming something of a glorified daycare

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children
and I defy anyone to prove me wrong:

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

If I want to hear the pitter-patter of little feet I'll put shoes on my pets.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Entitlement, thy name is mooooooooooooooo

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 14, 2020
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twocents
"In the USA our public school system isn't fit for purpose, or even as a babysitting function."

crazy, I think it actually is becoming something of a glorified daycare

That’s absolutely what it has become. When I began teaching, I had one non-teaching duty per day, meaning a lunch duty or something. Basically babysitting. So about 2.5 hours a week total. My final year I had 3 duties per day (so about 1.5 hours a day) plus 2.5 hours every Tuesday morning as an aide to another teacher. All of this duty time came out of my planning time, which was a contract violation but my teacher’s union did nothing about it (they were useless for anyone that wasn’t a core subject area).

The only planning I got was .5 hours every morning, which totals 2.5 hours a week. 2.5 hours a week to do all the behind the scenes work associated with music teaching, vs. about 10 hours a week in non-music related babysitting tasks. And 27 classes a week, so that’s 22.5 hours a week of actual music teaching. Oh, and 15 minutes of classroom setup time every morning and afternoon, before and after students were in the building.

Needless to say, my work suffered. In addition to not having any time to prepare, the schedule was physically exhausting (duty, teach four classes, .5 hour lunch, duty, teach two classes, duty) and by the end of the day I was only good for sitting there and shouting at the students if they got too out of hand.

I was a well-qualified, expensive babysitter.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 14, 2020
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LoveToLurk
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twocents
"In the USA our public school system isn't fit for purpose, or even as a babysitting function."

crazy, I think it actually is becoming something of a glorified daycare

That’s absolutely what it has become. When I began teaching, I had one non-teaching duty per day, meaning a lunch duty or something. Basically babysitting. So about 2.5 hours a week total. My final year I had 3 duties per day (so about 1.5 hours a day) plus 2.5 hours every Tuesday morning as an aide to another teacher. All of this duty time came out of my planning time, which was a contract violation but my teacher’s union did nothing about it (they were useless for anyone that wasn’t a core subject area).

The only planning I got was .5 hours every morning, which totals 2.5 hours a week. 2.5 hours a week to do all the behind the scenes work associated with music teaching, vs. about 10 hours a week in non-music related babysitting tasks. And 27 classes a week, so that’s 22.5 hours a week of actual music teaching. Oh, and 15 minutes of classroom setup time every morning and afternoon, before and after students were in the building.

Needless to say, my work suffered. In addition to not having any time to prepare, the schedule was physically exhausting (duty, teach four classes, .5 hour lunch, duty, teach two classes, duty) and by the end of the day I was only good for sitting there and shouting at the students if they got too out of hand.

I was a well-qualified, expensive babysitter.

A baby sitter's job is to make sure that the child is cared for and alive at the end of the babysitting session. Many schools are not doing this, as students are committing suicide in schools due to ignored bullying. Teachers literally have too many children in their classes to safely WATCH them, much less teach them up vs down. American schools are being told not to just teach the children but to raise the children. Overburdened teachers are leaving in droves.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 16, 2020
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LoveToLurk
Quote
twocents
"In the USA our public school system isn't fit for purpose, or even as a babysitting function."

crazy, I think it actually is becoming something of a glorified daycare

That’s absolutely what it has become. When I began teaching, I had one non-teaching duty per day, meaning a lunch duty or something. Basically babysitting. So about 2.5 hours a week total. My final year I had 3 duties per day (so about 1.5 hours a day) plus 2.5 hours every Tuesday morning as an aide to another teacher. All of this duty time came out of my planning time, which was a contract violation but my teacher’s union did nothing about it (they were useless for anyone that wasn’t a core subject area).

The only planning I got was .5 hours every morning, which totals 2.5 hours a week. 2.5 hours a week to do all the behind the scenes work associated with music teaching, vs. about 10 hours a week in non-music related babysitting tasks. And 27 classes a week, so that’s 22.5 hours a week of actual music teaching. Oh, and 15 minutes of classroom setup time every morning and afternoon, before and after students were in the building.

Needless to say, my work suffered. In addition to not having any time to prepare, the schedule was physically exhausting (duty, teach four classes, .5 hour lunch, duty, teach two classes, duty) and by the end of the day I was only good for sitting there and shouting at the students if they got too out of hand.

I was a well-qualified, expensive babysitter.

Wow LovetoLurk,

When I was a kid the teachers would scatter like the red sea when kids went to lunch. I'm mean, gone gone not to be seen again by any kid until classes resumed. I'd guess they really needed a break by that time! We had lunch volunteers who were part of the PTA. I think eventually some became permanent employees.

Your school could have played it fair and spread out the duty evenly among the staff.

I'm trying to think of a time I can recall as a kid when the adults weren't all desperate to be away from us. Other than the tiny spurts and Kodak moments. The only decent example I can think of are teachers/instructors/song leaders etc. and only while they are teaching children. There were the sickos but they were always obvious because they seemed a little too happy to see kids.

Fundamentally I don't think kids are bad I think most adults just don't want to be around them. Maybe if people on the fence could ask themselves if they would be happy being in a mostly one-sided relationship with someone with a fundamentally much lower level of maturity (or nonexistent maturity) and little to no interests in common. Doesn't sound appealing? Well, don't have children then! Describing the problem without identifying it may be a way to get through to them. Ultimately though, most will have children no matter what.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 17, 2020
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freya

Your school could have played it fair and spread out the duty evenly among the staff.

There’s a clear hierarchy of “important” teachers: special areas (music, art, library, gym) are at the bottom. I was told more than once that it was my job to support the other teachers. This is a common problem for special area teachers almost everywhere, which is part of why I left teaching altogether rather than just switching districts. I didn’t study music from the age of 5 just to become someone else’s bitch.

Agreed about how most adults don’t actually like being around children. I think it’s what we’re seeing now, with all these parents during lockdown. They’re realizing that a relationship with a child isn’t like a relationship with an adult. Adults have a sense of give-and-take, but the child doesn’t really care about the adult’s side of things.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 19, 2020
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yurble
I don't understand that at all. I mean, I like to see female or minority politicians because it is indicative of decreasing bigotry, but I'm not going to vote for a woman just because she's a woman and I'm a woman. I want to relate to someone by feeling that the person is intelligent and shares my views on things that matter to me.

I agree completely.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
May 19, 2020
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LoveToLurk
There’s a clear hierarchy of “important” teachers: special areas (music, art, library, gym) are at the bottom. I was told more than once that it was my job to support the other teachers. This is a common problem for special area teachers almost everywhere, which is part of why I left teaching altogether rather than just switching districts. I didn’t study music from the age of 5 just to become someone else’s bitch.

Agreed about how most adults don’t actually like being around children. I think it’s what we’re seeing now, with all these parents during lockdown. They’re realizing that a relationship with a child isn’t like a relationship with an adult. Adults have a sense of give-and-take, but the child doesn’t really care about the adult’s side of things.

No, the job to support other teachers is paraprofessional, or administrator, etc. It isn't as if you graduated high school and started teaching with no credentials. This is a really crappy way to treat special teachers. And the teachers most likely to have 15 years of experience in their specialty when graduating college are special teachers. Many have a life-long interest in art, music, etc.

I have a relative who teaches science although she was recently offered music (her specialty). I see now why she chose to continue with science!

I wish more adults have a sense of give-or-take, many seem to lack this. They likely weren't brought up this way. But bad parenting can only be the scapegoat until about the age of 20. Past then, it is the individual as an adult to own up to responsibility of making mature changes in their lives.
Re: Having kids is a concession that will cost you your dreams
October 06, 2020
Also being the sibling of an autard will prevent you from having dreams. At a time when you were supposed to explore the world, make friends, and work on your life, you will be forced to make your decisions around autard as if you were another parent. Except you had no choice unlike breeders.
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