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Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development
Posted by Cambion
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Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 13, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,965 |
So what exactly are you supposed to do to make brats behave if smacking them and negative reinforcement is "abuse," but gentle discipline is completely ineffective? Also, judging by the comments below the article, it seems a LOT of people can't tell the difference between actual abuse and a love tap. People in the comments describe genuine abuse - being hit constantly, getting beaten with belts over the smallest mistakes, etc. This is not spanking. Spanking a child is not the same as hitting them as hard as you can or wailing on them for hours - it's a smack that is meant to get the brat's attention immediately and cause discomfort.
No wonder so many people equate spanking with abuse - they were raised by violent assholes who probably never wanted kids and chose to take their regret out on those kids in the form of constant physical abuse.
Orly? Because a lot of kids I knew growing up got spanked and all their parents had to do was count to make them behave. Because they knew if Mom or Dad got to three, they got spanked. For others, all they had to hear was the snap of a belt to knock off whatever shit they were doing because they got beat with a belt one time and that's all it took. I just don't believe it for a second that spanking does not cause long-term compliance, not when I saw with my own eyes that it DOES.
So what exactly would these people recommend for "healthy" methods of discipline? Most kids don't respond to gentle discipline or natural consequences, and obviously not parenting them at all causes its own set of problems. Some kids won't respond to anything but a smack. They say themselves that "measuring the effects of spanking has proven difficult" and that studies often don't distinguish between spanking and real child abuse.
So how exactly do they know they got accurate results? Did they observe how parents actually spanked their kids for 50 years? Or just took the parents' word for it? Because if it was a word-of-mouth situation, who is to say the parents in the study didn't beat the piss out of their kids every damn day and just referred to it as "spanking?" No parent would willingly admit to committing a crime against their kids. Because beating kids to a pulp on a regular basis will definitely fuck them up mentally, but a tap on the ass now and then isn't going to put them in therapy for fuck's sake.
https://www.iflscience.com/spanking-leads-angrier-and-more-defiant-children-35306
No wonder so many people equate spanking with abuse - they were raised by violent assholes who probably never wanted kids and chose to take their regret out on those kids in the form of constant physical abuse.
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"We found that spanking was associated with unintended detrimental outcomes and was not associated with more immediate or long-term compliance, which are parents' intended outcomes when they discipline their children," Gershoff said.
Orly? Because a lot of kids I knew growing up got spanked and all their parents had to do was count to make them behave. Because they knew if Mom or Dad got to three, they got spanked. For others, all they had to hear was the snap of a belt to knock off whatever shit they were doing because they got beat with a belt one time and that's all it took. I just don't believe it for a second that spanking does not cause long-term compliance, not when I saw with my own eyes that it DOES.
So what exactly would these people recommend for "healthy" methods of discipline? Most kids don't respond to gentle discipline or natural consequences, and obviously not parenting them at all causes its own set of problems. Some kids won't respond to anything but a smack. They say themselves that "measuring the effects of spanking has proven difficult" and that studies often don't distinguish between spanking and real child abuse.
So how exactly do they know they got accurate results? Did they observe how parents actually spanked their kids for 50 years? Or just took the parents' word for it? Because if it was a word-of-mouth situation, who is to say the parents in the study didn't beat the piss out of their kids every damn day and just referred to it as "spanking?" No parent would willingly admit to committing a crime against their kids. Because beating kids to a pulp on a regular basis will definitely fuck them up mentally, but a tap on the ass now and then isn't going to put them in therapy for fuck's sake.
https://www.iflscience.com/spanking-leads-angrier-and-more-defiant-children-35306
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The appropriateness of spanking as a parental disciplinary technique arouses passionate debate. But a new meta-analysis of five decades of research suggests that, in addition to the psychological effects on children, there may be a large price to pay for the parents.
Measuring the effects of spanking has proven difficult, not only because so many people come to the topic with unmovable opinions, but because spanking is often accompanied by other forms of physical punishment, and many studies do not distinguish these sufficiently for conclusions to be drawn about spanking alone.
In the Journal of Family Psychology, Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff of The University of Texas at Austin brings together studies of the effects of spanking that included a total of 160,927 children. "Our analysis focuses on what most Americans would recognize as spanking and not on potentially abusive behaviors," Gershoff said in a statement. Spanking was defined as an open-handed slap to the buttocks or limbs.
Gershoff concluded that there is an association between spanking and 13 of the 17 detrimental outcomes they tested for. Most strikingly, she found that it is a very ineffective way to get children to follow parents' wishes.
"We found that spanking was associated with unintended detrimental outcomes and was not associated with more immediate or long-term compliance, which are parents' intended outcomes when they discipline their children," Gershoff said.
On top of this, the traditional line that “it never did me any harm” doesn't stand up very well. Adults who were spanked as a child were more likely to suffer mental health problems and to behave in anti-social ways.
A UNICEF report found that in most countries, more than 70 percent of children were spanked in the previous month, so it is obviously not the case that spanking is always disastrous (unless you take a very grim view of the state of humanity). However, the evidence Gershoff compiled suggests that the frequency of spanking is as important as whether it happens at all. The more often a child was spanked, the more likely they were to show negative effects.
The aspect of Gershoff's study that is likely to draw the most disbelief is her comparison with physical abuse. "We as a society think of spanking and physical abuse as distinct behaviors," she said. "Yet our research shows that spanking is linked with the same negative child outcomes as abuse, just to a slightly lesser degree."
Despite the fact that the studies Gershoff used go back as far as the 1960s, the comparison of spanking to abuse always draws a backlash, even though some psychologists argue they are actually the same thing.
Sweden banned spanking in 1979, but recent proposals to do the same thing in Canada have proven highly controversial, while in New Zealand legislation, which remains in force, to ban smacking was opposed by a more than 88 percent majority in a non-binding referendum after opponents of the ban claimed that "no decent research shows smack by a loving parent breeds violence."
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 13, 2022 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,432 |
One thing I often wonder about with these studies is how spanking is defined. Here, I see it is defined as an open-handed slap on the buttocks or limbs, but I think that still leaves plenty of room for variables such as whether it was bare skin or over clothing, the maximum duration the mark could last (redness lasting less than five minutes is quite different from something that continues to sting), and the emotional state of the parent when the spanking was administered.
When I think back to the times I was spanked (which was a rare punishment at least after my memory formed; being sent to my room was more common and spanking was only used when I really wasn't listening), there was no lingering pain or mark, it was over clothing, and my parents were calm rather than angry. I don't feel that this resulted in negative outcomes. I still think there's a gulf between that and abuse, that they aren't on the same continuum.
Personally, I think the emotional state of the parent is probably a key factor. If the adult is feeling frustration and anger, I think that is what has the impact more than the spank itself. I'm imagining situations where the parent is light on the discipline and then finally loses it and swats the child. I think the inconsistency and the heightened emotions could be the cause of any harmful outcomes. I would be entirely unsurprised to learn that volatile emotions negatively impact children.
When I think back to the times I was spanked (which was a rare punishment at least after my memory formed; being sent to my room was more common and spanking was only used when I really wasn't listening), there was no lingering pain or mark, it was over clothing, and my parents were calm rather than angry. I don't feel that this resulted in negative outcomes. I still think there's a gulf between that and abuse, that they aren't on the same continuum.
Personally, I think the emotional state of the parent is probably a key factor. If the adult is feeling frustration and anger, I think that is what has the impact more than the spank itself. I'm imagining situations where the parent is light on the discipline and then finally loses it and swats the child. I think the inconsistency and the heightened emotions could be the cause of any harmful outcomes. I would be entirely unsurprised to learn that volatile emotions negatively impact children.
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 13, 2022 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,708 |
I agree with Yurble's definition on spanking versus abuse.
It is okay for a child who is spanked and clearly told what to avoid in the future and remember this. This child will likely remember the pain and it won't take much to dissuade him/her from doing it again. If the child keeps doing it then clearly spanking isn't effective and a good parent should be a mature adult and look for a more effective way to get the point across.
It is another thing for an abusive parunt to stare down and intimidate their child to the point that they do something accidentally because they are scared shitless and are then hit repeatedly for doing so. If a child knows it is going to be hit every day no matter what if the parent is around that is going to be detrimental to a child's development.
The kids that were by far the worst behaved were the ones that parunts never disciplined and would just make empty threats. I recall these brats bragging about how they ran the house or always got their way.
It is okay for a child who is spanked and clearly told what to avoid in the future and remember this. This child will likely remember the pain and it won't take much to dissuade him/her from doing it again. If the child keeps doing it then clearly spanking isn't effective and a good parent should be a mature adult and look for a more effective way to get the point across.
It is another thing for an abusive parunt to stare down and intimidate their child to the point that they do something accidentally because they are scared shitless and are then hit repeatedly for doing so. If a child knows it is going to be hit every day no matter what if the parent is around that is going to be detrimental to a child's development.
The kids that were by far the worst behaved were the ones that parunts never disciplined and would just make empty threats. I recall these brats bragging about how they ran the house or always got their way.
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 13, 2022 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 353 |
A co-worker once told me whether or not she got in trouble depended on her mother's stress level, not whether she had done something she should get in trouble for. I think the same thing may have been going on with my parents. I wonder how common this is.
Inconsistent and unfair discipline could be something that turned a lot of people off to discipline, along with physical abuse.
Another issue is back in the days when teachers were allowed to hit or otherwise discipline kids some of them took it too far and were abusive. They also disproportionately punished the kids they didn't like (who were not always the real troublemakers). So as a result we now have the opposite extreme where teachers have no control of their classrooms at all.
Why do so few people get it right?
Inconsistent and unfair discipline could be something that turned a lot of people off to discipline, along with physical abuse.
Another issue is back in the days when teachers were allowed to hit or otherwise discipline kids some of them took it too far and were abusive. They also disproportionately punished the kids they didn't like (who were not always the real troublemakers). So as a result we now have the opposite extreme where teachers have no control of their classrooms at all.
Why do so few people get it right?
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 13, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,965 |
Quote
yurble
Personally, I think the emotional state of the parent is probably a key factor. If the adult is feeling frustration and anger, I think that is what has the impact more than the spank itself. I'm imagining situations where the parent is light on the discipline and then finally loses it and swats the child. I think the inconsistency and the heightened emotions could be the cause of any harmful outcomes. I would be entirely unsurprised to learn that volatile emotions negatively impact children.
That's very true. A parent that is annoyed, but collected and firm at the time they apply discipline will spank their kid and it won't be too hard - sure the kid will cry and whine because they didn't like it, but that's why it works. But kids are really really damn good at testing their parents' patience and if those parents are already angry or stressed or inebriated by the time they get their limits tested/surpassed, they might not only spank the kid for more trivial things, but may hit them much harder, much longer or much more often. If Junior spills his juice and just gets an earful about it one day, but gets his ass slapped for a straight minute the next time he does it, yeah that's gonna send some mixed signals and screw up the kid's head.
Spanking should cause just enough fear of consequences to discourage the child from repeating the bad behavior, but it should not cause them to legitimately fear their parents. If the kid is afraid of their parents, it's not just simple spanking that's happening.
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 24, 2022 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 3,454 |
Growing up, as kids, we didn't get hit. I am not really a top performer of the society, but I also didn't get into bad situations, even as a teen. Maybe it depends on each kid or maybe because both of my parents were engineers, they created a structure in everything.
I don't know how kids do if they get smacked. I do know that I've had much better relationship with my parents than many other kids. Just my personal 2 cents.
I don't know how kids do if they get smacked. I do know that I've had much better relationship with my parents than many other kids. Just my personal 2 cents.
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 24, 2022 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 3,842 |
when I was in first grade I had this shriveled bitch of a fuckwad teacher. 2 fucking brat girls started lying about me spittin gin the bathroom. every fucking day. I should have told mom but I didn't. she felt guilty but this was not her fault. annd this bitch would spank me every day. and the two fuck bitches always had a possum eating shit grin on their faces. given enough time I would have ambushed them and used some thing to beat their heads in
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 24, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,965 |
I was never spanked as a kid, but I think that was because my mother and I lived with her mother and Grandma made it abundantly clear that if my mother laid a finger on me, she'd call the police and report her for child abuse. I did deserve to be spanked because I was an unholy brat, but at the same time, I think my maternal unit would have been one of the parents who thinks spanking is the same as beating the absolute shit out of their kids because she felt she had no control over her life and likely would have taken it out on me to feel like she had a choice in something.
But no worries, because what she couldn't do to me physically, she made up for mentally tenfold. Her verbal abuse over the span of my childhood and into adulthood turned me into the mess I am now: anxious, depressed, insecure, scared of failure, no self-esteem and trust issues. I also seem to be reeeeeeally good at forming relationships with other toxic people similar to her - bosses, partners, etc. - probably because I grew up thinking that a controlling, screeching lunatic was normal. The theme song of my childhood was being told on a regular basis how stupid I was, and why couldn't I just be smart like Sara and Katie, and what did my mother do to deserve such a stupid child. Realistically I probably wasn't stupid, I was just bad at math and occasionally forgetful. I'd start stuttering and make mistakes when I got screamed at, but I think most kids would react that way.
I almost wonder if getting my ass beat would have done less damage to me long-term than getting screamed at constantly and told how dumb I was.
Maybe we need more studies on the effects of mental abuse on kids, but it's easier to get away with that because it doesn't leave visible marks.
But no worries, because what she couldn't do to me physically, she made up for mentally tenfold. Her verbal abuse over the span of my childhood and into adulthood turned me into the mess I am now: anxious, depressed, insecure, scared of failure, no self-esteem and trust issues. I also seem to be reeeeeeally good at forming relationships with other toxic people similar to her - bosses, partners, etc. - probably because I grew up thinking that a controlling, screeching lunatic was normal. The theme song of my childhood was being told on a regular basis how stupid I was, and why couldn't I just be smart like Sara and Katie, and what did my mother do to deserve such a stupid child. Realistically I probably wasn't stupid, I was just bad at math and occasionally forgetful. I'd start stuttering and make mistakes when I got screamed at, but I think most kids would react that way.
I almost wonder if getting my ass beat would have done less damage to me long-term than getting screamed at constantly and told how dumb I was.
Maybe we need more studies on the effects of mental abuse on kids, but it's easier to get away with that because it doesn't leave visible marks.|
Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 25, 2022 | Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 3,454 |
@Cambion: emotional and verbal abuse aren't healthy either. I will not say that physical abuse is any better, it does harm too, just in different ways. I am not a psychologist, so I don't know all the details, but most animal abusers were abused themselves as kids. It's a horrible situation.
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Re: Study suggests that spanking is detrimental to children's development June 27, 2022 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,978 |
My sibling and I were spanked as a kid. If we were bad, my mother would give us a swat on the bare behind. I only remember it happening once or twice, because after that, the threat was enough. I don’t really feel any sort of way about it, other than I know it worked to keep me in line.
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