It's gone

I would love to contribute to this conversation, but I'm still incoherently angry.

I am feeling too down to talk about it. My spouse told that there will be protests, but in the end not much will be done.
He also blames dems for not voting every chance they got and feels that people let this happen.

There are a lot of broken family relations over on r/cf over this. We were going to go to Florida this winter, but my dh said we need to boycott every state that is taking advantage of this, so we may only go to Maryland. This is my adopted country and it looks like 2/3 of it is not there anymore.

Maybe we will visit Mexico instead of Florida, but it maybe too dangerous. Never thought I would be saying that

Tyranny of the minority. The 3 Trump appointees were appointed by a president who lost the popular vote by 3 million votes. The senate Republicans which confirmed those appointees represent fewer voters than the Democrats which opposed them, just as they received fewer votes than the Democrats who opposed them. And while Roberts and Alito were nominated by W after he won the popular vote in his 2004 re-election, W did first lose the pop vote in 2000 which helped him get re-elected.

Then you have McConnell stealing 1, maybe 2 SCOTUS seats. He stole the Scalia seat from Obama, claiming "let the people have a voice" in 2016 for the last 10 months of Obama's second term. But when RBG died a month before the 2020 election, that principle changed to "let Trump fill the seat because he is president." If McConnell had chosen one principle and simply stuck to it for both vacancies, Trump would have filled one of them and Obama/Biden would have filled the other. But McConnell is a hypocritical, unprincipled ass who cares about only 3 things: (1) putting conservative judges on the federal bench, (2) tax cuts for the rich, and (3) blocking anything the Democrats want to do.

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cfdavep
They are now eying California. Once they got rid of Roe, it will be easier to bang away at the individual states

Good luck with that. I know there are large red regions in CA, but thankfully LA and SF are deep sapphire blue. And now with Roe overturned, I imagine some sane Republicans will be against all of this. I'm in blue state NJ/NY region, and many moderate Republicans here are aghast at the overturning of Roe. The lunatic fringe MAGA types are localized to just a few small regions.

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deegee
It's what may happen next which scares me so much. I surely don't trust Alito and the others to not try to follow Thomas who wants to get rid Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Thomas invited Red states to pass laws which defy those decisions so they can try to overturn them, too.

This is what worries me the most. The forced-birther fundies will cool it for awhile, but watch. Mark my words, by the end of 2023, deep red states mired in poverty, dependant on blue state tax dollars, will start passing laws banning birth control and Clarence Thomas will be right there, ready and willing to do their bidding.

They need to go after inter-racial marriage next and watch his reaction.

I personally don't think it would have made a difference no matter which way the court was leaning. The court was bought out, it was compromised. The first alarm bell was all these fucking stupid whining articles about the lower birth rate. Just like the dancing and jjigging about minimum wage signaled this inflation (it did so the last time) so these articles and the stats triggered the ogdickwerx crowd they are so afraid their shriveled little heads aren't going to be exercised. That is all it is. THEY WANT FUCKING BABIES AND TO BLOODY HELL WITH WHAT ANYONE THINKS, FEELS, OR CARES ABOUT. They don't even give a damn to whom these kids are born. and if these fucking famblees produce all sorts of pathological mental disturbances, all the better. Now they can blat and whine about poor homeless mentals..

THE COURT WAS BOUGHT AND COMPROMISED. THEY SOLD EVERYONE OUT TO WHOMEVER IS BEHIND THE SCENES. As such, all the polyshits braying and mewling about environment are hypocritical morons.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

Blue states will be flooded with women aborting which will lead to longer waiting periods for women from those states.

SCOTUS is only as powerful as people allow it to be. None of their rulings are going to stand if enough people do not comply. I was trying to research what was the percentage of people who wanted Roe overturned and I am getting conflicting information. Many sources, perhaps falsely, seem to claim that majority was against Roe. I have to sort through fake data to get real results.

To me, seeing Roe overturned, is like a bad dream. I feel like there are religious zombies who are walking around and all are chanting the same exact thing. I grew up in a big city. Religion was a distant subject to me and seeing laws being created based on religion in today's world is downright wild to me. On all the issues, I've always followed the money. I was always able to find root cause.

I think the time has come that people take a look around and ask: "Is what being done by the government is for the good of the people?" There has been a tyrannical move done by the Right. Voters on the right are clapping and cheering. They do not question "their side". When people ask me: "Who do you support, the Red or the Blue?" My answer never changes: "I support people", which means abortions are available to everyone at no cost to the patient. It also means (I am going to upset some people with this) that "My body my choice" has NO exceptions of any kind. A choice of what happens to the patient should be 100% up to the patient. Employers should have ZERO access to medical records and firing someone because they had an abortion, refused a medical treatment or failed a drug test should be a crime.

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cfdavep
Blue states will be flooded with women aborting which will lead to longer waiting periods for women from those states.

Initially, yes. With time, if states do what Georgia has tried, they will criminalize women who seek abortions out of state. When bans like these happen, horrible things follow. Governments generally seek agreements with other countries and states that will stop US Citizens from seeking abortions elsewhere. This has happened as far back as prohibition. Ships under US flags could not buy alcohol in many places around the world.

While I have no doubt that some of those Red states will try to prosecute women who get abortions out-of-state, I do wonder if they would prevail in the SCOTUS. CJ Roberts loves dismissing cases on lack of standing, and I do wonder how one state could prosecute its residents for something they did legally outside of their jurisdiction. Then again, he would need at least of the other 5 conservatives to form a majority with the 3 liberals.

Remember what happened after the 2020 election when some states tried to overturn election results in other states? SCOTUS laughed them out of court.

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cfdavep
He also blames dems for not voting every chance they got and feels that people let this happen.

Let's also include the libertarians and independents who refused to vote for "the lesser of two evils." Even after watching Trump in action, during and after his term in office, I'm seeing people claiming both sides are just as bad. I mean, I'm not blind, I see that Dem politicians are still politicians and I wish they would grow some goddamn teeth, but if white supremacists and misogynists are drooling over one side and not the other, if one side attempts a fucking coup, clearly both parties are not equally bad.

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kittehpeoples

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cfdavep
He also blames dems for not voting every chance they got and feels that people let this happen.

Let's also include the libertarians and independents who refused to vote for "the lesser of two evils." Even after watching Trump in action, during and after his term in office, I'm seeing people claiming both sides are just as bad. I mean, I'm not blind, I see that Dem politicians are still politicians and I wish they would grow some goddamn teeth, but if white supremacists and misogynists are drooling over one side and not the other, if one side attempts a fucking coup, clearly both parties are not equally bad.

As of lately, my observation has been that one side does something evil while the other side effectively does nothing about it. This was leaked a few weeks ago. Not much action was taken.

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deegee
While I have no doubt that some of those Red states will try to prosecute women who get abortions out-of-state, I do wonder if they would prevail in the SCOTUS. CJ Roberts loves dismissing cases on lack of standing, and I do wonder how one state could prosecute its residents for something they did legally outside of their jurisdiction. Then again, he would need at least of the other 5 conservatives to form a majority with the 3 liberals.

Remember what happened after the 2020 election when some states tried to overturn election results in other states? SCOTUS laughed them out of court.

I personally don't have much faith in SCOTUS as of lately. They have done SOME decent moves in the past, but I feel those were the exception and not the norm. They say even a broken clock is correct some of the time, so I do like your optimistic outlook. Maybe we will get lucky.

Now I read how Senators Manchin and Collins felt misled by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh when they said Roe was "settled law." Then they were the only 2 senators who failed to realize something everyone else knew during their confirmation hearings - they were lying. The other Republican senators knew they were winking at them when they said it, and voted for them. The other Democratic senatiors knew they were lying and voted against them. The audience of the 2 nominees was only Collins and Manchin, the two they needed to actually fool into voting to confirm them.

Why couldn't those two, and Barrett and Alito and Thomas, have answered a question about Roe truthfully: "I'd vote to overturn Roe as soon as I get the chance, and especially if I have 4 others who will join me." Not the BS "it's settled law blah blah blah...." Why should any conservative nominee who says, "xxx is settled law" be believed?

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Now I read how Senators Manchin and Collins felt misled by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh when they said Roe was "settled law." Then they were the only 2 senators who failed to realize something everyone else knew during their confirmation hearings - they were lying.

That's a cover story. They knew what was going to happen and they knew they would be able to blame the justices.

The bottom line is, they didn't care. They knew they had to confirm them or they wouldn't be re-elected by their base.

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bell_flower

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Now I read how Senators Manchin and Collins felt misled by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh when they said Roe was "settled law." Then they were the only 2 senators who failed to realize something everyone else knew during their confirmation hearings - they were lying.

That's a cover story. They knew what was going to happen and they knew they would be able to blame the justices.

The bottom line is, they didn't care. They knew they had to confirm them or they wouldn't be re-elected by their base.

Overturning Roe was Trump's campaign promise. I remember it vividly. He said he'd nominate justices who would overturn Roe and send all abortion oversight back to the states. For Manchin and Collins to now play dumb is despicable. They may get away with it low some voters but definitely not a majority of them.

What disturbs me is that we will soon be getting Brazillian/E. Indian style news where a 10 year old girl has been forced to give birth due to being raped by her uncle.

I was reading about some US female politician this morning who said that abortion after rape was "conpounded the tragedy" The pro-liars have been lying all along about the rape incest exception to get votes.

Anything to control "the cattle"

Man something I'd looove to see happen is to see the justices responsible for this shitty decision held responsible for the outcome. This would mean:

- Any unwanted children born after the death of Roe v. Wade that would have otherwise been aborted will become the sole financial responsibility of the Supreme Court Justices who chose to end abortion rights. They get no choice in this, just like how women get no choice now. This would include any and all pre-natal care, cost of labor and delivery, cost of treatment of subsequent birth complications, payment for the funeral of any stillbirths, any cosmetic surgery the woman wants to restore her body after pregnancy, paying for medical care for both the woman and child, and paying for the child and mother to live VERY well for the rest of their lives, including a full ride to the college of the child's choice.

- Or they will be legally forced to adopt every single unwanted child born because of their women-hating decision. Every. Single. One. The mother of the child will get to decide if she wants to raise the child on someone else's dime or force the people who took away her choice to raise them.

- Any women who die as the result of an inability to receive abortion services (either from a botched DIY abortion or a miscarriage that leads to sepsis), the Justices who made this decision to rob women of their rights will have to travel at their own expense to the homes of the woman's relatives so that they can not only apologize in person for killing their loved one, but also explain to the grieving families exactly why their mother's/sister's/cousin's/child's/wife's life meant less than that of a fetus. They will do this with no security escort as well, so that the families may communicate their true feelings to the Justices in ways they feel are meaningful.

---

I'm sure those fuckers would kick and scream about how unfaaaaair that is to them and how they should have a choice in the matter. I know it'll never happen, but I can dream. All I know is every last one of the Justices who voted to abolish Roe v. Wade has been doxxed (no fewer than two people on my FB friend list has shared their addresses) and they absolutely deserve whatever gets done to them. I truly hope every one of them gets their homes fire-bombed and if they call 911, the firefighters will just sit there and do nothing, and as they beg and plead for them to do their jobs while watching everything they own go up in flames and listen to their families screaming as they burn alive, they can know what it feels like to not have a choice and watch their life be ruined by someone else's bad decision.

I'm sure that sounds psychotic, but I'm pissed off. This is a decision that will benefit precisely nobody - not women, not children, not even men. So many men are going to become unwilling fathers because of this shit too, and paired with equally unwilling mothers, the next generation of brats is going to be so, so colossally fucked up that it'll be beyond anyone's worst nightmare.

Mark my words, these six assholes will absolutely pay for what they've done because women aren't gonna take this shit sitting down, and there are plenty of pro-choice male feminists out there who will join the fight too. These pricks cannot possibly expect to fuck over half the population and suffer no backlash. They should be very afraid for their safety right now, and not a single soul will feel sorry for them when someone chooses to punish them either.

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Cambion
I'm sure that sounds psychotic, but I'm pissed off. This is a decision that will benefit precisely nobody - not women, not children, not even men. So many men are going to become unwilling fathers because of this shit too, and paired with equally unwilling mothers, the next generation of brats is going to be so, so colossally fucked up that it'll be beyond anyone's worst nightmare.

I, for one, think Amy Coney Barrette has stakes in the baby selling game. Meaning, she knows someone and profits from the selling of babies. Who cares if black market baby selling isn't legal, something being illegal didn't stop Trump. She said, "This will increase the supply of babies in the USA." She of course means white babies. The brown and black babies will still make nice fertilizer. The women who bear the babies are as disposable as horse apples.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

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Techie
As of lately, my observation has been that one side does something evil while the other side effectively does nothing about it. This was leaked a few weeks ago. Not much action was taken.

Yes. Hence me saying they need to grow some teeth.

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bell_flower

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Now I read how Senators Manchin and Collins felt misled by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh when they said Roe was "settled law." Then they were the only 2 senators who failed to realize something everyone else knew during their confirmation hearings - they were lying.

That's a cover story. They knew what was going to happen and they knew they would be able to blame the justices.

The bottom line is, they didn't care. They knew they had to confirm them or they wouldn't be re-elected by their base.

The dynamic is different for Collins versus Manchin. For Manchin, he needs crossover Republican votes to win in West Virginia, a deep Red state. So voting for Trump's nominees helps him. For Collins, she needs crossover Democratic votes to win in Maine, a light Blue state. So voting for Trump's nominees can hurt her.

Unfortunately, Collins still won in 2020 despite voting for Kavanaugh in 2018. She also voted for Gorsuch but not for Barrett. She won by only 9 points, by far her smallest margin of victory in her 4 re-election wins. Her first win, in 1996, was a close win in a 3-way race.

Why is there so much hate from the right towards women right now? I've been seeing a lot of: "Keep your legs closed" but I haven't seen much of: "Keep it in your pants". People on the right seem to cry about child support payments the loudest. Why aren't men on the right being taught the same "discipline" that women are? Also, "punish the slut" approach. There are no female sluts if there are no willing male sluts to join them. Which century are we in and what kind of people are we dealing with?

ETA: There is a lot of complaining out there how some men were "forced" into fatherhood. I hope these folks realize that:
1) There will be many more instances of "involuntary" fatherhood from here on
2) It may suck to be a dad against one's will, it sucks tenfold to be a mother against one's will
3) Taxes are going to rise to cover expenses of kids that people cannot afford
4) If Southwest is low on water now, adding more people will not solve the issue

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Techie
Why is there so much hate from the right towards women right now? I've been seeing a lot of: "Keep your legs closed" but I haven't seen much of: "Keep it in your pants". People on the right seem to cry about child support payments the loudest. Why aren't men on the right being taught the same "discipline" that women are? Also, "punish the slut" approach. There are no female sluts if there are no willing male sluts to join them. Which century are we in and what kind of people are we dealing with?

Because it seems to be assumed that men are big horny apes who can't be expected to exercise any self control regarding their sexual urges, so this places all blame on women no matter how they respond to men's advances. If they agree and have consensual sex, they're whores who should have kept their legs closed. If they say no, they're prudes and they're mean for not giving men a chance, or their standards are too high. If they are raped, they were asking for it by wearing absolutely anything at all. These are the same people who will scream at teen girls that they can't wear tanktops and shorts above the knee in high school because it will be too distracting to the boys, but nobody tells the boys to stop perving on the girls.

It takes two people of opposite genders to cause a pregnancy, but yeah, nobody ever gets on the men's cases about it because it's much easier to just call women sluts and tell them the pregnancy is all their fault. Men can be sluts too, dammit.

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I don't think lawmakers realize just what kind of long-term inpact their shit decision will have on everyone. Abortion is nobody's idea of a good time, but it is a healthcare necessity. Even the ways in which abortion being made illegal will impact men will circle around and impact women in negative ways as well. But since we've gone back to the fucking 1950s, this is what we can look forward to with abortion being banned:

- Men being forced into fatherhood because the woman can't abort. This will likely lead to MUCH more abuse of women, like beating them until they miscarry, shoving them down the stairs, hitting them with a car or straight-up killing them. Women are already more likely to be murdered while pregnant than during any other time in their lives and this statistic will see a sharp increase when they are no longer allowed to seek abortions. Plenty of men are so against being fathers that they will gladly beat a fetus out of a woman. In all fairness, I'm sure plenty of women will ask others to beat them within an inch of their lives in order to try and cause miscarriages.

- In a similar vein, if more men are forced into fatherhood because their partners can't terminate unwanted pregnancies, I'll bet it will mean more men who become or remain intentionally unemployed to avoid having brat support garnished from their wages. I think there's already a bit of an employee shortage, so I expect it to get worse in the near future because many men would rather live in their cars than pay for kids they don't want.

- I'd wager a lot of women will choose to not date men or sleep with them at all out of fear of unwanted pregnancy. Because so many men can't take no for an answer, I'm gonna have to assume this will mean an increase in the amount of violence aimed at women by men who are turned down. The decrease in dating will likely lead to an even lower birth rate, which I think is awesome, but I know how much the people in charge of the country will shit their pants over this. Fewer women entering into relationships will have other far-reaching effects too, like fewer marriages, meaning anyone working in the wedding industry might see a decline in business. Obviously caterers and jewelers aren't essential to the economy, but a decline in their business is a potential trickle-down effect.

- Women dying from preventable causes when they go septic from incomplete miscarriages or DIY abortions or even ectopic pregnancies. r/nursing is already not looking forward to the surge of women showing up in the ER with sepsis or hemorrhaging because they tried to give themselves terminations. And if abortion is off the table, that means septic miscarriages can't be cured - women will only be allowed antibiotics. I don't think sepsis just clears up on its own either, so it would basically be palliative antibiotic care until she finally succumbs to sepsis because the cause of the sepsis (retained fetal tissue) will become illegal to remove. Ectopic pregnancies will just be allowed to bleed out because an already doomed fetus will take precedent over the living breathing human woman. Families of these women (and girls, in some cases) will be furious and will likely resort to violence against hospital staff in response to them not being allowed to save women from pregnancies gone wrong. When a man blows an entire floor of nurses away for refusing to save his miscarrying wife because they legally can't, everyone will call it a horrible tragedy and will blame everyone except the lawmakers for it.

- Women will be allowed to die from treatable cancers if they're found to be pregnant too because chemotherapy can cause miscarriage (I think). From what I'm seeing, radiation treatments for cancer can sometimes cause miscarriage, and when they don't, they can cause fetal abnormalities and can also put the fetus at risk for developing cancer if it's born alive. Women who are pregnant and have cancer at the same time will be forced to wait until after they give birth to seek treatment, and by then, it will be too late for some of them.

- Lots more women committing suicide, or at least attempting it. Plenty of women would sooner die than give birth and that's exactly what we're going to see more of. I fully expect to see lots of obituaries for young women who "died unexpectedly" after they get pregnant and can't terminate, so they take their own lives. Then there will be media coverage of the "unexplainable epidemic of death among young women."

Brilliant post Cambion.

I thought of one more way the abortion ban will negatively affect everyone. With lots of women suffering serious complications from unsafe abortions or miscarriages medical personnel will be busy and wait times for all patients will be longer. Just when we're getting over the pandemic now this. But wouldn't it be great if one of these geezer lawmakers is hauled into the ER with chest pains and gets told "I'm sorry Congressman Fuckface, but you will have to wait until tomorrow to get any medical treatment because we are dealing with several women hemorrhaging from illegal abortions. But you are welcome to lie here in agony and listen to our other patients scream their heads off because you chose to deny them necessary medical care." Yeah, like this would ever be allowed to happen, but it's a cool fantasy.

Cambion, I could not have said it any better. Thank you for the amazing post. I am not convinced that lawmakers "fail to understand unintended consequences" of their actions. I think they simply do not care one single bit because no matter what, they will be completely fine. This move was to satisfy extreme right and secure their seats because they think that most of the USA is like that. In reality, they are pandering to loud minority. Here are a few good things. Blue states are free to loosen abortion restrictions further. When it comes to this issue, I'd say 95% of people won't change their viewpoint on it no matter what. I was pro-abortion since the time I understood what procreation really was. Back in high school, I applauded Planned Parenthood and despised forced birthers. I never changed for one single day. Most pro-choice people aren't changing either, no matter what the black robes are saying.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/abortion-pills-were-banned-brazil-173848253.html

From this article it appears to be saying we will be living in Brazil in a few years. Whatever is going on there will soon be going on here, with women having to depend on drug dealers to get abortion pills