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Dear Prudence: Man is judging his girlfriend for Not Raising her Sister when she was Twenty

Posted by bell_flower 
The link is here.

1. My my, this man is judgmental. Life isn't a movie. A 20 year old, whom the guy calls "Rowan," made the decision to not raise her eight year old sister ("Rue") after her parents both died young.

Is a 20 year old really an ideal parent? I think not.

2. I wonder if everyone would be piling on a 20 year old man who made the same decision?

The dude who wrote the letter doesn't say exactly how old his girlfriend is, but since the child in question is now over 18, the girlfriend is at least 30.

People in general change a lot between 20 and 30. I support anyone who opts out of raising a sibling. Just because your parents fucked and made a sibling, it's not YOUR responsibility to raise that sibling.

And certainly a 20 year old person has a pretty good reason to decline due to age alone.

The OP even suggests she's a "terrible person," but of course he's still down with having sex with her.

I hope the girlfriend sees the letter and dumps this judgmental prick. Something tells me, if Rowan had kept her little sister and was raising her, this prick would be writing an advice columnist and whining that she had a kid already.

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I'll fuck her, but I'm holding it against her that she didn't want to be Insta-Mommy when she was 20
My biggest issue is I’m about 70 percent sure I’m going to want at least one kid in the next 10-ish years. Before I found out about Rue, Rowan had said she’d be down with that. But is there really any chance she’d be an okay mom? Do I need to worry about her abandoning our kid if something happened to me? How can I begin to talk to her about this? And should I even try? Or is someone who would do what she did, and still defend it years later, a terrible person I can maybe enjoy sexytimes with, but shouldn’t plan a long-term relationship?
What a douche! If someone decided not to become a parent to their sibling at 20 does not mean that they would think of dumping a kid they had a dozen years later. Of course if the guy sees the women as potentially a bad moo then suddenly she is only good for one thing.
I suppose the older sister is the only living relative? Why do I doubt this to be accurate? I'd guess, based on her age, she was likely the least suitable adult relative. But all the other relatives managed to get by judgement free.

There is a good chance she spent all her teenage years being a de-facto parent and didn't care to continue this into her twenties. I bet she was a parunt since her dad died when her sister was an infant and she was 13. Realistically, her mahm was likely "overwhelmed" and likely expected lots of help and babysitting. And seriously, when the mahm was sick who do you think was the parent? I'm guessing she knew exactly what parunting would entail by the time both her parents died.

It sounds as if she may want brats one day, if so she may desire to spend her twenties without any obligations. And the judgy boyfriend, who is to say he would lift a finger if they had brats? He may have very well been the type to think woman=obligated 24X7 child care as so many duhs believe this.

And even if she never helped out with her sister when she was a teenager she is still an adult and can decide whether or not she wants to parent. Boy, people are always incredibly judgy when a relative isn't willing to take on brat relatives. This goes double for any female relative and triple for any child-free relatives.

I've been around relatives that adopted/fostered child relatives and the best way to sum them up is: bitter as shit about the situation and complaining constantly about it.
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bell_flower
The OP even suggests she's a "terrible person," but of course he's still down with having sex with her.

Yeah, I enjoyed that little detail..."She's too horrible to marry and have children with, so I'll just keep fucking her until I find a woman willing to sacrifice her life for motherhood."
The comments are roasting the older sister. Everybody there is saying how they'd take in their younger siblings immediately and love it.

Yeah...no.

When I was around 6 - 8 years old, I overheard my parents talking about structuring their will in such a way as to make me independant should they die and set up trusts, because they were worried about my older sister (6 years older than me) putting me into an orphanage and keeping the entire estate for herself should something happen to them. They didn't trust her, because we didn't get along. We're still not close, by the way.

My maternal grandfather had that happen to him back in the old country, and they didn't want a repeat 2 generations later.

So no....not everybody will take in their younger siblings.

The older sister probably never mentioned the relationship she had with her younger sister when their mother was alive. If she was eager to put the younger one into the system, I'd say they weren't close as silings while their parents were alive, so the older sister didn't feel any obligation to care for her younger sister. And that's her right.
There are plenty of women who chose not to be mothers young who go on to become at least okay mothers. Look how many women abort when they get pregnant very young due to any number of circumstances (and having enough brain cells to see those circumstances won't benefit a child) and then reproduce later in life.

Not wanting to raise your siblings doesn't make you a bad person, or a bad future parent. It means you didn't want the responsibility of taking care of someone else at a time when you may not have been fully equipped to take care of yourself. No twenty-year-old can afford a kid. People with decent incomes and stable lives often can't raise them! It sounds to me like the girlfriend made the best possible decision for both herself and her sibling. Sometimes the best possible choice is to put them in the system instead of neglecting them yourself because you don't know what you're doing or have no interest in being a mommy. Who exactly would it benefit if the sister were to take in her sibling when she had neither the desire nor the means to raise a child? Being famblee doesn't magically make someone qualified or financially secure enough to be a proper parent.

I'll bet if a man did this same thing, nobody would bat an eye because men aren't "supposed to" want to be daddies. Men are "supposed to" be the dumb, immature, responsibility-free ones when they're young, whereas women are "supposed to" be the mature, maternal, responsible ones pretty much the second they start menstruating. But because it's a woman, the sister is just supposed to sacrifice everything for her sister because it's a chiiiiild?

This asshat can fuck off. I bet if he were in her shoes, he would have made the same choice. Or if he chose to raise his sibling, he'd be bitter and resentful about it. Also, this guy has only been dating this woman for six months, it looks like? Why the hell is he thinking about breeding with her already? Six months is not NEARLY long enough to get to know someone and if they'd make a good long-term mate or parent. I don't think a couples therapist will help with this (and if you need fucking couples therapy six months in, it's probably a doomed relationship anyway). Sounds like the guy has already decided he can't deal with the knowledge that his girlfriend refused to raise her sister, but oh, she's still okay enough to fuck.
I think everyone here is right on the money when they said that if it the sexes were reversed, none of the commenters would be roasting the older sibling because nobody expects a man to give up everything to raise a child - that’s wimmins work. Why is nobody roasting the parents for not coming up with a solid plan for their children if they should die? I have a plan for my cats, for Christ sakes, and I and my husband are both young and in good health. Did they just assume the older sister would step in, because that’s what women do?

And not wanting to raise an abandoned sibling at age 20 is wholly different that choosing to birth a child in one’s 30’s. For her sake I hope they break up, because this guy sucks.

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"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
WannaDuh should take one of those desperate WannaMoos if he really wants sprogs, instead of keeping Rowan for sexytimes. He's already in his thirties, so he better hurry unless he wants the trouble of IVF or tards.

Leaving a kid sibling to the foster system is nothing like getting an abortion. Aborted pignasties don't end up in foster care or have any comparable pain. Adopting a "nice, normal" sibling attending school takes a much smaller toll on the body, mind, and finances than pignasty and a baby do.

The deceased parents are obviously the true assholes for not making guardianship arrangements, but I judge Rowan a bit because Rue was 8. There's not much raising to do for an 8 year old when they're the type who support themselves at 18. Rue would have been able to look after herself by 11 or 12 save for a few rides or forms to complete, then Rowan would have had plenty of twenties remaining to enjoy. I don't think she's changed enough to be a good parent because she feels no regret for what happened to Rue. I would also judge a 20 year old man who made the same decision as being too selfish to love his future sprogs.

This guy is no prize either because he won't sacrifice sex with her while he searches for other Moo candidates. This branch swinger is as greedy for good times and inconsiderate of "loved ones" as she is. They deserve each other, but I wouldn't complain if one of them dumped the other.
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misskitty
but I judge Rowan a bit because Rue was 8. There's not much raising to do for an 8 year old when they're the type who support themselves at 18. Rue would have been able to look after herself by 11 or 12 save for a few rides or forms to complete, then Rowan would have had plenty of twenties remaining to enjoy. I don't think she's changed enough to be a good parent because she feels no regret for what happened to Rue.

How many children have you raised to adulthood? Because it sounds like you have zero clue what it takes to raise a functional human being. You think an 8 year old can essentially raise themselves, bar signing legal documents or driving? I mean, I guess if you're willing to neglect your kid, it's true, they can fend for themselves to an extent, but raising a child is a lot more than that. And it may be less expensive than starting from conception, but it's still not cheap.

This woman was absolutely within her rights (and absolutely right) not to raise this child, even with them being sisters. She never agreed to it, she wasn't ready for it, she didn't make the choice to bring the child into the world...it sucks they lost their parents, but she shouldn't have to completely upend her life because of it.

No one should have to be a parent if they don't want to be, under any circumstances. At all.
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kittehpeoples
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misskitty
but I judge Rowan a bit because Rue was 8. There's not much raising to do for an 8 year old when they're the type who support themselves at 18. Rue would have been able to look after herself by 11 or 12 save for a few rides or forms to complete, then Rowan would have had plenty of twenties remaining to enjoy. I don't think she's changed enough to be a good parent because she feels no regret for what happened to Rue.

How many children have you raised to adulthood? Because it sounds like you have zero clue what it takes to raise a functional human being. You think an 8 year old can essentially raise themselves, bar signing legal documents or driving? I mean, I guess if you're willing to neglect your kid, it's true, they can fend for themselves to an extent, but raising a child is a lot more than that. And it may be less expensive than starting from conception, but it's still not cheap.

This woman was absolutely within her rights (and absolutely right) not to raise this child, even with them being sisters. She never agreed to it, she wasn't ready for it, she didn't make the choice to bring the child into the world...it sucks they lost their parents, but she shouldn't have to completely upend her life because of it.

No one should have to be a parent if they don't want to be, under any circumstances. At all.

No, I think Rue at 11 or 12 years old could have essentially raised herself, bar signing legal documents or driving. They're the type who leave at 18 and Rue had no disability. The only reason Rowan gave was enjoying her twenties (no mention of affording it), but she'd still have more than half her twenties left.

Rowan had the right to make that choice, but her boyfriend is perfectly reasonable to consider that choice if they're going to have kids. She left her "nice, normal" sister to foster care and possibly sex work for what seems to be just some extra dating or partying. Her right to do that, but he also has the right to decide that he doesn't want kids with her given this information.
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misskitty
No, I think Rue at 11 or 12 years old could have essentially raised herself, bar signing legal documents or driving. They're the type who leave at 18 and Rue had no disability. The only reason Rowan gave was enjoying her twenties (no mention of affording it), but she'd still have more than half her twenties left.

Rowan had the right to make that choice, but her boyfriend is perfectly reasonable to consider that choice if they're going to have kids. She left her "nice, normal" sister to foster care and possibly sex work for what seems to be just some extra dating or partying. Her right to do that, but he also has the right to decide that he doesn't want kids with her given this information.

And how many children have you fostered or adopted, or otherwise rescued from the system? Fuck off with foisting obligation not of her making on Rowan, unless you're stepping up for the role that she declined (in which case, why are you on a CF board?). Suggesting that Rowan has greater responsibility than you do because she happens to be related to Rue - even though she had zero culpability in Rue existing or Rue needing a parent - stems from the same toxic view of familial responsibility that would have us all reproducing in order to satisfy the expectations of our parents.
It seems much more irresponsible to me for a man (of any age, but especially one who by virtue of his age should no longer be making impulsive teenage decisions) to continue having sex with a woman he doesn't deem fit to be a mother, potentially impregnating her and putting his own child at risk of having a bad mother, than it is for a woman to refuse at a young age to take responsibility for a child which isn't her own.
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yurble
It seems much more irresponsible to me for a man (of any age, but especially one who by virtue of his age should no longer be making impulsive teenage decisions) to continue having sex with a woman he doesn't deem fit to be a mother, potentially impregnating her and putting his own child at risk of having a bad mother, than it is for a woman to refuse at a young age to take responsibility for a child which isn't her own.

I certainly hope this toxic couple's using birth control!

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Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
I seems that when a sibling is seriously younger or older there tends to be an emotional disconnect. I hear of people who grew up and had a sibling 20 years older and they feel that the person is a stranger. I wonder if that was the case with the 20 year old. The girl would've been 12 when this kid was born and maybe did not connect with the sister. I wonder if she was expected by the parents to look after it when she is was just starting her teens and there was a lot of resentment

She may have been mentally not in a place to help her and then 12 years later may have grown a lot and maybe in a place to have kids, but the guy is treating her like she is evil. I seems that he is judging her worth as a human on how he sees her to have valued family at 20, thinks she is that same person and thinks that such a female deserved to just be used for sex and tossed. Pretty diabolical, maybe the old, must really be a whore if she was not a Madonna.
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cfdavep
The girl would've been 12 when this kid was born and maybe did not connect with the sister. I wonder if she was expected by the parents to look after it when she is was just starting her teens and there was a lot of resentment

She may have been mentally not in a place to help her and then 12 years later may have grown a lot and maybe in a place to have kids, but the guy is treating her like she is evil. I seems that he is judging her worth as a human on how he sees her to have valued family at 20, thinks she is that same person and thinks that such a female deserved to just be used for sex and tossed. Pretty diabolical, maybe the old, must really be a whore if she was not a Madonna.

I wonder about this too. I'm also wondering why Rowan would think it will be different when it is her own when she is in her thirties as the only differences will be she can't give it back and she will be responsible as much as 100% of the time depending on her spouse. It is possible she will hit her thirties and decide not to participate in the shitshow known as breeding. By that time she'll likely know tons of regretful breeders, including this soon to be ex-boyfriend loser.

The default is that wimmin will do 100% of the care taking and it takes lots of will to refrain or reduce this expectation.
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yurble
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misskitty
No, I think Rue at 11 or 12 years old could have essentially raised herself, bar signing legal documents or driving. They're the type who leave at 18 and Rue had no disability. The only reason Rowan gave was enjoying her twenties (no mention of affording it), but she'd still have more than half her twenties left.

Rowan had the right to make that choice, but her boyfriend is perfectly reasonable to consider that choice if they're going to have kids. She left her "nice, normal" sister to foster care and possibly sex work for what seems to be just some extra dating or partying. Her right to do that, but he also has the right to decide that he doesn't want kids with her given this information.

And how many children have you fostered or adopted, or otherwise rescued from the system? Fuck off with foisting obligation not of her making on Rowan, unless you're stepping up for the role that she declined (in which case, why are you on a CF board?).

My situation is like ladybug's, so one adult. I'm on a CF board because I don't want to have kids, I hate selfish breeders, and I hate the pressure society puts on people to sprog.
Rowan seems like a selfish breeder in the making because she agreed to have a baby with her boyfriend of 6 months, but chose partying over the sister she lived with for 6 years. I hope she just nodded off at him to prevent an argument and they don't actually have a baby. Funny thing she said about enjoying her twenties, when she's and 30 in a 6 month relationship with him. Does that mean she doesn't enjoy dating him?

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yurble
Suggesting that Rowan has greater responsibility than you do because she happens to be related to Rue - even though she had zero culpability in Rue existing or Rue needing a parent - stems from the same toxic view of familial responsibility that would have us all reproducing in order to satisfy the expectations of our parents.

I'm a complete stranger to Rue and I don't want to be a parent. Rowan is familiar with Rue and supposedly wants to be a parent. When people choose partners for marriage and kids, they often look at that person's relationship with their family. Her sister is the last living person in Rowan's immediate family. The past is the past, but 30 year old Rowan with 12 years of supporting herself could easily help Rue get out of sex work. Her callous disregard for her sister is a red flag for a potential parent, so I don't see why bell_flower is giving the letter writer flak for judging it. Judging is the only appropriate thing the letter writer has done imo. I just wish he would judge himself too.

This isn't just about familial responsibility. If a close friend died and left behind a decent kid, I would see if I had the resources to keep the kid out of foster care. I wouldn't be obliged, but shit like this is what separates loved ones from the rest.
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freya
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cfdavep
The girl would've been 12 when this kid was born and maybe did not connect with the sister. I wonder if she was expected by the parents to look after it when she is was just starting her teens and there was a lot of resentment

She may have been mentally not in a place to help her and then 12 years later may have grown a lot and maybe in a place to have kids, but the guy is treating her like she is evil. I seems that he is judging her worth as a human on how he sees her to have valued family at 20, thinks she is that same person and thinks that such a female deserved to just be used for sex and tossed. Pretty diabolical, maybe the old, must really be a whore if she was not a Madonna.

I wonder about this too. I'm also wondering why Rowan would think it will be different when it is her own when she is in her thirties as the only differences will be she can't give it back and she will be responsible as much as 100% of the time depending on her spouse. It is possible she will hit her thirties and decide not to participate in the shitshow known as breeding. By that time she'll likely know tons of regretful breeders, including this soon to be ex-boyfriend loser.

The default is that wimmin will do 100% of the care taking and it takes lots of will to refrain or reduce this expectation.

I'm wondering about both these things too. I also wonder if she just wants to check off a box in her thirties given her "enjoy her twenties" statement. If she has grown a lot and is in a place to have kids, then why isn't she giving any support to her sister now? Even if her sister is not in sex work, she just aged out of the foster system so she's unlikely to be in a comfortable situation.

Maybe Rowan thinks the shitty boyfriend will do more of the work because having a kid was his idea, but we all know that's not the case...
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