Post 451 In regards to Adam and Eve...

Dizzam! You are right, my cf friend! I went to www.bible.com and found this:

Genesis 3:16

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. <-- That right there is pure bullshit.. lol!

Although I don't believe 100% in the Bible, I do respect people who do and am open to discussion with the next MOrOn hopped up on feritility drugs who wants to go head to head with me about "God's" gift and his/her mircales...

well now we have a religious reason, and answer to the god botherer breeders.. good on ya

I thought the general translation of this, even waaaaaaaaay before fundamentalism reared its ugly head was 'pain'.

In fact this quote is often used to justify not giving pain-relief in childbirth.

We are still paying for Eve's sin, apparently.

What better way to keep the woman down, spiritually speaking? This is but one of many steps in enforcing a patriarchal society. Turn what had been revered under goddess worship into a curse, an atonement, an acknowledgement of damnation, if you will.

Feminism is all but dead.. but the men still have a lot of attitudes in need of changing!

I do not need an attitude adjustment. I have the greatest respect for my wife and any person who deserves it. But I am tired of hearing people say it is a miracle/blessing from GOD for people to have a child and a punishment for those whom choose or cannot have children. I believe if you want to use GOD as a reference, use the word of GOD as it written not as you wish it was written. I have been married for 10 years and still love my wife without children. Do you have a problem with what the Bible says on this subject?

There are alot of good men out there. I wrote post 451 in regards to both women and men. It has nothing to do with feminism it has to do with Breeders saying they are blessed by the all mighty because they got knocked up. This comment saying--"Oh! I am blessed to have this beautiful child", is like saying all other people whom choose for whatever reason not to have children as the ones who are punished.
I think child-free people(us) have it made -- we can drive 2 door sport cars,have nicer and bigger houses,go on vacations alot,sleep as late as we want on weekends and hang out with our friends all night! What a life! I would not trade it for the world. It has nothing to do with either men or women.

Good grief, I should have known the fellas would have their widdle penises in a knot over those statements.

If you aren't capable of judging which statements are about guys like you and which statements are about your average fundie breeder duh, please turn your computer off and gather your belongings for a life of hermitage, somewhere deep underground without electricity.

Otherwise, I fear your poor widdle fweelings are gonna be all hurted.

The statement about adam and eve had nothing to do with keeping woman down. It was meant to make people realize that men and women who have a child are just, according to the bible, being punished. Why did you have to take it and apply to only women and holding them down. It applied to both. Did you take it personally? Don't worry, you didn't hurt my feelings. As far as men needing to have an attitude adjustment, yes there are men and even women who both need adjusted. Could you be one.

I fail to see how that statement 'thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee" can be seen as anything but sexist shit born from a patriachal society and designed to perpetuate patriarchy.

Anon - you are right - feminism has died, or turned into wombynism, and patriarchy and sexism are still big, ugly and breathing.

Furthermore I have to say that I encounter sexist and patriarchal attitudes in most facets of society - including in childfree circles. Just because CF men don't see us just as broodmoos it does not mean that some, nay many, don't display other sexist attitudes.

i see more discrimination against men, coz i am a man, women only courses, women only insurance, women only gyms, men are feeling marginalised, and worthless, so no wonder we are trying to fight, but women get far far more than men and moos get far far more than women,

over 7 times the amount of money spent on male cancers is spent on breast cancer, where is the equality there.. i have encountered sexist and feminist attitudes everywhere..but then we only see what affects us, and not the other people.. but yes its gotten to wombism now.

if you think any group deserves more than any other group, whether its moos, of feminists, or men, or blacks, or gays, then you are discriminating against them.. thats it, lets have equality in discrimination.. being a white middle aged male, isnt a crime.. yet..

Thank you, mouse.. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one that could see that here.

Professor.. I could spout some tired old bullshit at you, but I'll settle for this. I will consider the feminist cause satisifed when there's equal pay for equal work, a proportionate number of women to men in the governing bodies, and abortion is no longer a hot debate topic, but an accepted fact of life.

Sorry--but the discussions by women on post 451 has gotten totally out of context with what the post was actually about. Yes in Genesis 3:16 it said women will bring forth children and thy husband shall rule over thee. Men did tell their wives what to do in past society--now we have equal rights in everything--we have more rights than your average middle aged white male walking around today. Men are wonderful--this is a childfree website not a male basher site. I do not understand why women get so heated from something that was written so long ago. As far as women being referred to as a goddess. No-- just having the availabilty to create life does not make you a goddess.
Having desire to thy husband --yes--if you like to have sex you will have desire to men or your husband--it is as simple as that. I did not call it a curse I called it a punishment and it clearly states this in the Bible. Sorry, girls I have to side with the men on this one.
Post 451 was written by a women whom loves men and has been with her husband for 15 years. My husband does not rule over me--he let me do whatever I want and is fully supportive as I am to him. If he was out there there are many others also out ther just as good. One other note--post 451 was to cause an awareness that breeders whom have a child are lying to themselves by saying it is a miracle/blessing. It is a burden and a punishment no matter how you weigh it--simple as that.

i am with a wonderful loving caring woman, i would never want to control what they did, i agree totally with what noel says, but i can also see the profs point of view. and there has been a brainwashing that women are goddesses, and its a miracle for something thats happened at least 36 billion times (taking into account every living and dead human ever).. i see this as a symptom, of a problem, the bible was written by, men, in that time and era, men were a power, but that doesnt mean men should be less equal.., and it doesnt mean that everytime a natural process occurs, thats its a miracle. in the bible having children was a punishment, punishment for knowledge, for eating the forbidden fruit, what punishment is there without pain.. thats what i think is being said.. if anyone has ever heard on the tv, these real life birth stories, and so on, anyone would beleive that birth is a punishment,


(anon, my thought on the subject so what if women who want to be in the governing bodies arent qualified to do the job.. would you just hire them coz of their sex, )

I definitely don't think the relative scarcity of women in positions of power (like high-level government) is due to inferior intellect or capability of the female gender. I think it's due to cultural inertia and backward thinking on the part the masses. There are many, many brilliant and hard-working women out there. Our society just isn't ready to embrace a woman leader. That's why the good ol' USA (sorry, I know there are plenty of Brits on this board, too) has yet to have a female president, or even vice president. Shame on us.

****I will consider the feminist cause satisifed when there's equal pay for equal work, a proportionate number of women to men in the governing bodies, *****.

Well, I wonder if that will ever happen with women demanding special considerations at every turn in the workplace, simply because they chose to sprog.

I am not so sure that the wage gap for truly EQUAL work is all that great or even existant. I think it is over played because of the bints who consistently put their job on the back burner, and GOD knows that you can't tell this "fambly friendly" culture that the hard truth is, when you put your family first, and others put their jobs first, YOU are not doing equal work. Secretly, I think it does work out and that many places are only family friendly in perks and public image. When it comes to pay and promotions, I wonder what the gap is between a man and a woman who both put their carreers first, vs. the gap between the "Family first" mother and the career minded man.

Good point diddlyskwat. Never thought this would be such a hot topic.
Just thought I would post my thoughts on here to give people somthing to think about. This makes my husband and I feel good to know there are people out there like us who are also child-free. It is hard to make people understand your choice not to have children when they think you must have a child when you get married. My husband and I live in a saturated family-oriented community--we both hate it here and are trying to transfer out right now. Hopefully the next place we move to will be less family-oriented. I know that finding a place not so family-oriented is extremely difficult if not impossible.

theres been talk about a cf island, or a town, built just for all us cf, wouldnt it be heaven.

i live in the UK, and we have had a female prime minister, who royally buggered up this country, we are run by the monarch a queen and have been since 1952, so we have seen the good and bad female leaders, we had 17 years of recession thanks to maggie. that britain is just getting out of.. but there is a pro family, pro feminist agenda it appears, and what diddly says is true.

While I can definitely appreciate your point about Thatcher, I hardly think that's an argument for why we shouldn't have woman leaders. I hope that's not where you were going, dear professor [insert smiley face]. Let's separate the individual from the gender, shall we?

i was just saying that a female leader is just as bad as a male leader, so it shouldnt really matter. the queen is a good leader relatively speaking.. blair is a bloody awful leader too, women can be just as bad as men, that was my point, so both men and women can be useless, some can be good.

it goes back to who we determine is best, a man or a woman, when the reality is, sex doesnt matter, good is good, and bad is bad.. not good is woman, and bad is man, or the other way around.. but at the moment the idea that all women are goddessesall produce the myracule child.. its pervading the world..

Wow! Didn't mean to start a male vs female thread.. I just posted the psalm as it was written.. But, hey, a lot of posts to this thread make valid points.. There are still a lot of unfair practices in today's workplace for both men and women.. I feel discriminated against when the girl who sits next to me gets to have off 'cause her baby is sick or the baby sitter is sick, etc.. Personally, I think women, depending on the work you do, should get 3-7 days vacation every month OR have access to an unlimited supply of morphine (this said half jokingly, please don't get all flaming crazy, periods hurt!)

Diddly has made some great points. Maybe if so many women stopped doing their damndest to make sure woman = moo, and keep demanding perks for the stupidity of screwing unprotected, there would be no 'wage gap'.

I'm going to get into trouble for this, but I think a lot of the brat-centric crap we all hate is due to a more female centered society. Take the tit-nazis for instance. In former, more centred generations, they would not have the gall to demand the disgusting, unsanitary practices they do.

I do agree that abortion should be a simple fact of life.

That should read 'Former, more male centred socities'. I've been up too long.

Actually, if you watch 'Cops' you can see female idiocy in regards to 'thy desire shall be for they husband' and he shall rule over you..
technically, I'd want to see the hebrew definition for 'rule' I never have looked it up so I'm not sure.
I cannot say it is BS as we pretty much opted for the scenario.
However, I am NOT looking forward to that program 'inconceivable'.
Probably make me want to smack some heads together.

Just checking in to let you all know that God told me the Bible is a made up story, and not really meant to be taken all that seriously.

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