WELFARE
Posted by law
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WELFARE November 22, 2011 |
One of my friends on FB posted a senseless bitch about the $5.15 minimum wage in Georgia and Wyoming. "May as well pay them in soup for all the good that's going to do."
Naturally I was moved to ask whether we should be paying 16 year olds $20/hr to sack groceries 15 hours a week.
One of her friends (Friend of friend, or FOF) came back about how some of those 16 year olds have babies and other famblee members to support so we need to give them the tools to help themselves. It didn't occur to me to mention that condoms are free at Planned Parenthood, what other tools can we fucking give away for free if these people are too stupid to keep from getting knocked up immediately post pubescence?
Anyway my actual response:
"I don't think employers should be expected to pay 3 - 5 times fair market value for uneducated labor in a market flooded with uneducated labor just because some people make poor life decisions. Wages are not and have never been determined by someone's personal lifestyle. It is and has always been determined by your usefulness in the market and the amount of competition. We don't pay 18-year-old mothers of 4 $45/hr to sack groceries just because she's an 18-year old mother of 4. The margin of profit is razor thin already in many businesses and markets, and a corporation can afford to hire 4 people at a lower wage for the cost of hiring one person at a "living wage" whatever that is, apparently determined by the dumb choices they make in life. So while you see that 18-year-old mothers of 4 are paid $45/hr to do labor that a retarded chimp could do, you see three other people go jobless. Some people are irredeemably dumb and no matter how much you bend over backward to help them, they'll do everything humanly possible to screw up their own lives, and pricefixing the cost of labor will not solve the problem of inherent stupidity. I don't fancy myself an economist but throwing money at a social problem has rarely if ever solved it, especially when you consider that the US has spent over 9 trillion dollars on the War on Poverty since 1964, which is enough to buy every poor person their own business, yet we still have poor people. A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a lifestyle. Check out the one-star reviews on Amazon of Barbara Ehrenreich's book "Nickel and Dimed." Also, most minimum wage workers do not stay at minimum wage, and families don't depend on min wage jobs. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204612504576608630238216692.html?grcc=88888&mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion Also, the myth of the working poor has become a classic: http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_working_poor.html"
The responses:
FOF 1: Your Ayn Rand, Objectivist mentality is what got us in this mess in the first place. 9 Trillion since 1964??????? Who cares? GAO audit report of the federal reserve quotes that 16 Trillion was taken by Goldman, Chase, AIG, GE, etc.. SINCE 2008 in less than THREE YEARS. Wake up. 9 Trillion in almost 48 years vs. 16 TRILLION just from the FED RESERVE in 3 years! THREE YEARS! The poor take pennies compared to the trillions in corruption that is destroying our democracy and middle class. You should be ashamed of yourself, mocking the poor in such ways. Shame.
FOF 2: In today's world there are many educated people lucky to find a minimum wage job. We all make poor choices and then there are the things we cannot control that come at us. The whole idea of having a minimum wage is so that people can support themselves in a manner that keeps a roof over their head and food on the table - not luxuries, necessities. You can say people don't "deserve" to be paid a livable wage all day long but it is a heartless society that allows children, the innocent product of "poor life decisions" who have no voice and no options, to go hungry. Society will always have undereducated folks who struggle - we can either give them a bootstrap to pull themselves up by or hand them a rope to string themselves up by. If they're costing me money, I choose the rope.
FOF 1: the only "dumb life choice" was you making these posts. Certain prejudices need left in ones mind. I can tell by the way you write that you have some serious issues with control... The poor are taking NOTHING from you... the corporations are DRAINING your SS, Medicare, Stocks, Investments, etc... If you would like further education I am open to talk.
The only other thing I had to say was that the TARP loans were being paid back and that the government actually made money on them, and that the spending on entitlement programs needed to be adjusted for inflation.
FOF 1: Entitlement programs? You mean the by product of corporate greed? Outsourcing jobs to china? We need to tax the ultra rich and give it all to the "entitlement programs." You are digging deeper and deeper into your Fox News fed echo chamber. Come out to reality.
My final response:
"FOF 1, you are incredibly rude, which is ironic since it's the few people like me who actually pay taxes and finance ALL of these programs, corporate and individual welfare (because I make too much to qualify for any welfare or EITC, I have ...no children so don't get child tax credits, and I don't make enough to qualify for any special loopholes for the rich - the only writeoffs I get are for my out-of-pocket educational expenses and my car tabs). Your compassion towards the poor apparently doesn't extend towards not biting the hand that feeds them (which kind of goes along with the similar cognitive dissonance of being against "corporate greed" etc whilst typing one's beliefs on the devices manufactured by said corporations). Go figure. I don't watch Fox News. Ever. I am a moderate. Although I kind of wonder where you got the BRILLIANT idea that only private institutions are allowed to make money and not the government (bzuh?), and it's a wonderful policy to hand out money like Santa to people who will not only never pay it back, but won't use it to improve their situations at all (no oversight), because it's ONLY FAIR that way.
What's next, a rant about the sweetheart no-bid deals for the military? BAHAHA! Keep it coming, this is the best comedy I've heard all day....BTW, if you don't like the fact that "jobs are outsourced to china" take a good hard look around your life and take note of how much of your personal shit was manufactured there. Remember that when you point a finger, three more are pointing back at you."
I just needed to rant, it's SOO frustrating to run into these dumbshits who think giving away taxpayer money to a worthless moo is just fine, but the government using money to make money is not only immoral, it should be left to the private sector ergo it's not FAIR to give money to Goldman Sachs when we should have given those billions of dollars to the poor, who of course will spend it wisely and give it back.
Naturally I was moved to ask whether we should be paying 16 year olds $20/hr to sack groceries 15 hours a week.
One of her friends (Friend of friend, or FOF) came back about how some of those 16 year olds have babies and other famblee members to support so we need to give them the tools to help themselves. It didn't occur to me to mention that condoms are free at Planned Parenthood, what other tools can we fucking give away for free if these people are too stupid to keep from getting knocked up immediately post pubescence?
Anyway my actual response:
"I don't think employers should be expected to pay 3 - 5 times fair market value for uneducated labor in a market flooded with uneducated labor just because some people make poor life decisions. Wages are not and have never been determined by someone's personal lifestyle. It is and has always been determined by your usefulness in the market and the amount of competition. We don't pay 18-year-old mothers of 4 $45/hr to sack groceries just because she's an 18-year old mother of 4. The margin of profit is razor thin already in many businesses and markets, and a corporation can afford to hire 4 people at a lower wage for the cost of hiring one person at a "living wage" whatever that is, apparently determined by the dumb choices they make in life. So while you see that 18-year-old mothers of 4 are paid $45/hr to do labor that a retarded chimp could do, you see three other people go jobless. Some people are irredeemably dumb and no matter how much you bend over backward to help them, they'll do everything humanly possible to screw up their own lives, and pricefixing the cost of labor will not solve the problem of inherent stupidity. I don't fancy myself an economist but throwing money at a social problem has rarely if ever solved it, especially when you consider that the US has spent over 9 trillion dollars on the War on Poverty since 1964, which is enough to buy every poor person their own business, yet we still have poor people. A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a lifestyle. Check out the one-star reviews on Amazon of Barbara Ehrenreich's book "Nickel and Dimed." Also, most minimum wage workers do not stay at minimum wage, and families don't depend on min wage jobs. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204612504576608630238216692.html?grcc=88888&mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion Also, the myth of the working poor has become a classic: http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_working_poor.html"
The responses:
FOF 1: Your Ayn Rand, Objectivist mentality is what got us in this mess in the first place. 9 Trillion since 1964??????? Who cares? GAO audit report of the federal reserve quotes that 16 Trillion was taken by Goldman, Chase, AIG, GE, etc.. SINCE 2008 in less than THREE YEARS. Wake up. 9 Trillion in almost 48 years vs. 16 TRILLION just from the FED RESERVE in 3 years! THREE YEARS! The poor take pennies compared to the trillions in corruption that is destroying our democracy and middle class. You should be ashamed of yourself, mocking the poor in such ways. Shame.
FOF 2: In today's world there are many educated people lucky to find a minimum wage job. We all make poor choices and then there are the things we cannot control that come at us. The whole idea of having a minimum wage is so that people can support themselves in a manner that keeps a roof over their head and food on the table - not luxuries, necessities. You can say people don't "deserve" to be paid a livable wage all day long but it is a heartless society that allows children, the innocent product of "poor life decisions" who have no voice and no options, to go hungry. Society will always have undereducated folks who struggle - we can either give them a bootstrap to pull themselves up by or hand them a rope to string themselves up by. If they're costing me money, I choose the rope.
FOF 1: the only "dumb life choice" was you making these posts. Certain prejudices need left in ones mind. I can tell by the way you write that you have some serious issues with control... The poor are taking NOTHING from you... the corporations are DRAINING your SS, Medicare, Stocks, Investments, etc... If you would like further education I am open to talk.
The only other thing I had to say was that the TARP loans were being paid back and that the government actually made money on them, and that the spending on entitlement programs needed to be adjusted for inflation.
FOF 1: Entitlement programs? You mean the by product of corporate greed? Outsourcing jobs to china? We need to tax the ultra rich and give it all to the "entitlement programs." You are digging deeper and deeper into your Fox News fed echo chamber. Come out to reality.
My final response:
"FOF 1, you are incredibly rude, which is ironic since it's the few people like me who actually pay taxes and finance ALL of these programs, corporate and individual welfare (because I make too much to qualify for any welfare or EITC, I have ...no children so don't get child tax credits, and I don't make enough to qualify for any special loopholes for the rich - the only writeoffs I get are for my out-of-pocket educational expenses and my car tabs). Your compassion towards the poor apparently doesn't extend towards not biting the hand that feeds them (which kind of goes along with the similar cognitive dissonance of being against "corporate greed" etc whilst typing one's beliefs on the devices manufactured by said corporations). Go figure. I don't watch Fox News. Ever. I am a moderate. Although I kind of wonder where you got the BRILLIANT idea that only private institutions are allowed to make money and not the government (bzuh?), and it's a wonderful policy to hand out money like Santa to people who will not only never pay it back, but won't use it to improve their situations at all (no oversight), because it's ONLY FAIR that way.
What's next, a rant about the sweetheart no-bid deals for the military? BAHAHA! Keep it coming, this is the best comedy I've heard all day....BTW, if you don't like the fact that "jobs are outsourced to china" take a good hard look around your life and take note of how much of your personal shit was manufactured there. Remember that when you point a finger, three more are pointing back at you."I just needed to rant, it's SOO frustrating to run into these dumbshits who think giving away taxpayer money to a worthless moo is just fine, but the government using money to make money is not only immoral, it should be left to the private sector ergo it's not FAIR to give money to Goldman Sachs when we should have given those billions of dollars to the poor, who of course will spend it wisely and give it back.
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