College grads earn $800,000 more than high school grads

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I was wondering what everyone thinks of this.

My high school all but flat-out told us it'd be impossible to make it in life without college. They made college sound like a life-or-death situation.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

I don't think it makes much of a difference when there are plenty of college grads and high school grads struggling to get the same job at McDonald's.

I don't know if I'd believe these numbers. Certain jobs you need a degree for, and minimum wage is the same regardless of education. Other employers prefer applicants with degrees, while some might specifically look for someone with only a high school diploma or a GED so they don't have to pay them more. From my own observations, college is a necessary evil; a vast majority of employers want to see a degree of some kind for things like table bussing or cashiering. But since there are so many more grads than jobs (careers and just plain jobs), this means a lot of people going irrecoverably into debt and never being able to secure work that will allow them to afford to repay their loans. College grads won't make more than anyone if they can't find something that pays more than minimum wage.

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Article
Once the investment is paid for, it continues to pay dividends through the rest of the worker’s life, leaving college graduates with substantially higher lifetime earnings than their peers with a high school degree. These findings suggest that redoubling the efforts to make college more accessible would be time and money well spent.”

Again, this is assuming the grad can actually get a job. Very few actually find their way into careers - as in long-term positions. Since everyone and their mother, dog and fifth cousin twice removed has a degree in something now, a college education is no longer special, so it's a matter of being better than all the rest. Depending on the field, some employers won't hire and train you - they'll just get some chump student to do slave labor an unpaid internship. That way, they can avoid hiring a pesky long-term employee that will brazenly want things like benefits or overtime and get the job done for free in exchange for a pat on the student's resume.

IMO college in this country needs to be free. Too many people are unemployed and getting sued by lenders for defaulting on loans because they can't find any work. If college is a necessity, it should not cost six figures to attend.

It all depends what kind of field you want to go in to. Some jobs that pay well do not require a degree. Other jobs require a degree just to be able to take a test for appropriate licensing. For example, to become a CPA, you will need college.

Many people who went to college do not end up in the field they studied for. Bill Gates did not have a college degree when he made his millions. He did get one later but he really did not need it.

The benefits of a college education in economic terms have been dropping in the US, while tuitions have been going up. If I were in that situation I'd still get a degree, but I'd do it abroad and in the field that I had some affinity for which had the best employment prospects long-term (hard to automate or outsource).

It's fucking bullshit, unless you go into a field that will always be in demand, and allow you to practice pretty much anywhere - like being a doc or a vet.

I have two Bachelor's degrees. The first one became obsolete and a complete joke as soon as I finished the program, even though they told us going in that it was "the job of the future" and that we would never be unemployed. Ha! :cen

Keep in mind, majority of colleges out there are there for a reason - to make money for the college. Just like any other business, they use targeted advertising. In this case their "target" is a high school student and the "marketing" is an increase in income. How much more or less you will earn depends on your individual circumstances and not on attendance of a particular school. I know a good number of people who finished college with honors and work at jobs that require no degree of any kind. It is not their fault - economics are what they are.

I agree with Yurble that college "pay off" is no longer as high as it used to be. These are just basics of economics of supply and demand. If everybody has a college degree, then supply is high - price offered for a college graduate comes down. Will colleges tell you that? Of course not! They want you to come and spend money! Will high school warn you? Never! They get perks if their students sign up.

Have I mentioned diploma mills that call themselves universities and colleges? Stay away from those.

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Techie
Have I mentioned diploma mills that call themselves universities and colleges? Stay away from those.

Never heard of those, but I just searched what they are. Wow, the list is huge, and I have heard of some of those schools.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

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brown-eyed diamond

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Techie
Have I mentioned diploma mills that call themselves universities and colleges? Stay away from those.

Never heard of those, but I just searched what they are. Wow, the list is huge, and I have heard of some of those schools.

There are also overpriced, accredited (better yet, government sanctioned rip-offs) schools out there too. If the school has a 1-800 number and has a campus in every state or in multiple states, you will pay too much to go there - they are probably a "for profit" school, which means they are for their own profit. Quality of education and your sucess are not guaranteed - just promised.

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My high school all but flat-out told us it'd be impossible to make it in life without college. They made college sound like a life-or-death situation.

What exactly does "make it in life" mean anyway? Is this some pre-prescribed notion of the Lifescript? People who make good money sometimes still don't know how to manage it well.

I think we need to get away from this idea that only certain paths lead to "success" as defined by Lifescripty middle class standards. I know plenty of people who don't have college degrees and support themselves just fine; on the other hand, I've seen degreed people spend themselves into financial disaster, believing that their "degreed" status would protect them from ever having money or employment problems.

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Ketchup
I know plenty of people who don't have college degrees and support themselves just fine; on the other hand, I've seen degreed people spend themselves into financial disaster, believing that their "degreed" status would protect them from ever having money or employment problems.

Very well put. I also know a person who has a Master's degree in Psychology and had been on an "as needed" type of employment arrangement for a long time. He finally got tired of it and now does real estate appraisals - he did not need any degree for that. He did go to school to be an appraiser, but Master's was not a requirement. He is now working hard to pay off $70,000 that he owes. College degree is not by any means a guarantee of employment.

ETA: have also seen flight attendants and customer service personnel with expensive degrees that were not a must for the job.

From what I can tell, if a college is advertised anywhere (TV, online, print), then it's a shithole. You never see ads for Penn State or Harvard anywhere, but you always see commercials for ITT Tech, DeVry and the Art Institutes. Sadly, I did attend a for-profit school that did not become accredited until after I graduated, and then I learned that some employers will specifically not hire people from the chain my school is part of because the grads all have reputations for being poorly or improperly educated.

You don't NEED a degree to do well in life. It's just shoved down our throats that we do. Johnny Cupcakes was a college dropout and I think has ADD and he's fuckin' rich from selling shirts. Jhonen Vasquez also dropped out of film school and was able to make art a successful career. Chris Hardwick has a degree in philosophy - possibly the most worthless major ever - and he not only does standup for a living, but has his own show. There's obviously more examples, but those are just people I'm a fan of.

Going to college is just like marriage and brats: you're made to think you have to do it because that's just what people do. It's very possible to find success without going six figures in debt. In fact, you probably have a better chance of making your own success than securing employment with your education. I'm at a point where I don't think anyone will hire my ass, so I've been thinking about what I can do to make my own money and be my own boss. Not coming up with a whole lot yet.

In our area there are commercials for Penn State for the branch campuses. So does the State System of Higher education - Slippery Rock, Indiana of PA, Clairion. As for a degree in philosophy, just about the only ones who get that major are Catholic priests and I don't think it helps them relate to people much.

And though I know some people here went there, but around where I am, what parent in their right mind would let their son or daughter go to West Virginia University? If I had a kid, no way would I pay $100,000 for them to party.

I would say the most worthless degree ever has to be business administration. Many of the classes are nasty group sessions were older students complain about their miserable jobs (that they have to keep because they have kids).

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Cambion
Going to college is just like marriage and brats: you're made to think you have to do it because that's just what people do. It's very possible to find success without going six figures in debt. In fact, you probably have a better chance of making your own success than securing employment with your education. I'm at a point where I don't think anyone will hire my ass, so I've been thinking about what I can do to make my own money and be my own boss. Not coming up with a whole lot yet.

I'm thinking about the same and I've come up with some ideas, but I'm not sure how I would start.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

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brown-eyed diamond

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Cambion
Going to college is just like marriage and brats: you're made to think you have to do it because that's just what people do. It's very possible to find success without going six figures in debt. In fact, you probably have a better chance of making your own success than securing employment with your education. I'm at a point where I don't think anyone will hire my ass, so I've been thinking about what I can do to make my own money and be my own boss. Not coming up with a whole lot yet.

I'm thinking about the same and I've come up with some ideas, but I'm not sure how I would start.

Just don't get the idea that folks here are against education. I think most of us here are very much for education. The only difference is that you can get necessary education without having to pay serious cash. There are free college courses available (just search Massive Open Online Courses) - and more are coming. Much of stuff that is taught in public universities can be found online and in libraries. Can you self study for some stuff? Of course you can. I have studied foregin languages on DuoLingo - free. You can also self study other things too. Some of the professional licenses only require you to pass a test - you can self study for that. Not paying big bucks for education does not really mean one is not being educated and it does not mean you will be shut off from the working world. You cannot self study for everything, but you can do a lot. If you know what you want to do, you can pursue it and not pay a huge amount of money. Example: say you want to get into cartoon animation. You may have to invest into equipment and software to learn on, but you can learn on your own and without the cost of college. Wanna write gaming code? Same path. Start simple, work your way up. Without huge college debt on your shoulders, you can do a lot - effort is required.

If you really think about it, $800,000, that is not that much money. If you invest and get lucky - you will have more. You get luckier and you bank that in a year. It has happened before to more than one person - figure is not a dream - it is a reality for many people. I think the idea of making very little money really applies to those who graduated from high school and had no ambition to go any place other than where they currently are. If you pursue your goals and don't sit still, sky is your limit.

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Techie
Just don't get the idea that folks here are against education. I think most of us here are very much for education.

I know you are. Self-employment is something I've been thinking about since I was 17, so it didn't just come to my mind with this thread or that article.

I knew about free college courses, but I thought they were a prerequisite for getting into a certain college. Jeez. I really need to explore more.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

Quote
brown-eyed diamond

Quote
Techie
Just don't get the idea that folks here are against education. I think most of us here are very much for education.

I know you are. Self-employment is something I've been thinking about since I was 17, so it didn't just come to my mind with this thread or that article.

I knew about free college courses, but I thought they were a prerequisite for getting into a certain college. Jeez. I really need to explore more.

Internet is your best friend

I'm seeing myself doing self-employment as well in the near future. I have an idea on what I want to do though.

As with college, I feel like I haven't learn a fucking thing in my nearly 5 years there. And what I actally hate about the college I went to was that learning was based on memorizing. I basically learn about the courses on my own. And college is an extension of high school (with student loans). I have previous posts on here where I wrote about the BS I saw in college.

And this is coming from a person who loves to learn.

I agree, education is a good thing to have. It's just helpful to try and find a good balance between cost and quality. There's no need to spend $150,000 on a bachelor's degree. I should have known what I was getting myself into when I learned I would receive a bachelor of science degree in graphic design during undergrad... rather than a bachelor of fine arts.

Depending on the field, you could just as easily take individual classes to help with things you're not very good at while learning anything else on your own. Sometimes it's not the degree that gets you the job, but the experience. Hell, it might even look more impressive to an employer to see someone who is self-taught who does things right. Apprenticeships can be good too. Like it you want to work in a funeral home, you don't even need a degree (I don't think). You just need to be an apprentice for a year or so. Sure, there are degrees in mortuary science, but not all funeral homes require them from potential employees.

Even with something like animation, you may not even need things like a light table or cel paper. A lot of animation is going digital now, including TV cartoons, and are done in Flash. So download a free copy off the internet obtain a copy legally and there ya go. All the power of animation without the costs, and Flash animation can apply to much more than cartoons. Website graphics, web banner ads, video tweaking (like if you want to add animation into a live-action video clip a la Roger Rabbit), etc. There are a lot of printed and digital sources for damn near everything - hate to say it, but even the "For Dummies" books are a good start.

If I could go back and do things all over again, I would actually put thought into a real major, do research rather than pointing at a random school, and - especially - decide if I really want to go to college. Yes, a lot of fields require a degree (like medicine and science), but college is not for everyone or for every line of work.

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Cambion
Apprenticeships can be good too. Like it you want to work in a funeral home, you don't even need a degree (I don't think). You just need to be an apprentice for a year or so. Sure, there are degrees in mortuary science, but not all funeral homes require them from potential employees.

If I could go back and do things all over again, I would actually put thought into a real major, do research rather than pointing at a random school, and - especially - decide if I really want to go to college. Yes, a lot of fields require a degree (like medicine and science), but college is not for everyone or for every line of work.

Just a comment about funeral directors: You need some training but mostly, at least in our area, the profession strongly runs in the family. I know someone who went through the training but because he is not "in the family" he had to take a different type of job.

Some colleges do allow you to design your own major if you can get an adviser to agree to such. Just that most students don't bother trying to figure out what classes they really want to take.

Most careers you probably do not need what you learn in college. But health care is the exception where you actually NEED the subjects.

I paid less for my master's degree as an out of stater at WVU than I paid for undergrad as an in-stater elsewhere. Just sayin'.

It also has plenty of non-party related shit to do, aimed at incoming frosh. I did not see any more partying there than at any other university that does not make the top party school list.

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

Education has seen some serious inflation. Even just 10 years ago when I was graduating from High School - having a BA/BS level of college education was a huge freaking deal. The education itself was also way more affordable. I grew up in California and we had some top ranked public universities (UCLA, UCI, UCSD, UCSB, UCB ect.) and you did not have to choose between ever owning your own home or getting an education at that time. Plus you could cut costs even further by attending community college for two years and then transferring for your final two years to University - at that time California community college classes cost only $11 a unit. Now the BA/BS degree has become the standard entry level degree to most jobs - even jobs where it seems ridiculously unnecessary like telemarketing companies and such. No longer does having a bachelors degree set you apart from the crowd - it acts to make you a PART of the crowd that is eligible for most jobs. To make it even shittier, degrees themselves are costing more and more- it's almost impossible to get out of school without SOME kind of debt (often times it's that lifetime of sorrow debt). Otherwise, unless you have a talent, know how to make money for your self, are involved in a trade, hold a patent to some amazing invention, know someone, have a rich relative that dies - it's extremely difficult to find work that makes enough income to cover living expenses (chitty apartment, dumpster dived furniture, a tv with working speakers and enough Top Ramen to preserve your innards for the next millennium).

If you have a degree, you probably have debt and might have a shitty job that doesn't pay you enough to actually pay your debt off. However, if you don't have a degree you most likely don't have a job that pays higher than minimum wage but you don't have the debt of an education. Both situations fucking suck. It's like: if you're going to be eaten by a shark, would you rather be chewed or swallowed? Who gives a fuck, you're still being eaten by a shark. So now it doesn't matter if you have an education or not - you're still probably broke as fuck. The only difference is that the education makes you eligible for more shitty jobs than not having an education.

Honestly, if I was going to talk to someone coming out of high school today - I would tell them to go into a trade and avoid the BA/BS degrees all together with few exceptions (Engineering, Nursing, or Accounting). However, those degrees are seeing heavy saturation so unless you have an *in* don't do it. Honestly, the friends of mine that are most stable are those involved in the trades (mechanics, electricians, plumbers, welders, biomedical technicians ect). It's difficult to outsource, they can't put unskilled labor in place (because a lot of the trades require licenses) and many pay hourly - which honestly is a godsend, because they can't give you some base rate and work you 100+ hours a week without OT (which is one of the things I LOVE about nursing, I get paid for my fucking work).

Totally with you swampshack. I ended up stuck in community college for ages due to illness and now I'm at a weird stuck point of not knowing whether or not to just quit while I'm lucky enough to not be in any debt or if I should go forward since it wouldn't take very long to get a BA with all my credits. I don't know a single person with a degree of any kind who is working for more than minimum wage.

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Techie
Keep in mind, majority of colleges out there are there for a reason - to make money for the college. Just like any other business, they use targeted advertising. In this case their "target" is a high school student and the "marketing" is an increase in income. How much more or less you will earn depends on your individual circumstances and not on attendance of a particular school. I know a good number of people who finished college with honors and work at jobs that require no degree of any kind. It is not their fault - economics are what they are.

I agree with Yurble that college "pay off" is no longer as high as it used to be. These are just basics of economics of supply and demand. If everybody has a college degree, then supply is high - price offered for a college graduate comes down. Will colleges tell you that? Of course not! They want you to come and spend money! Will high school warn you? Never! They get perks if their students sign up.

Have I mentioned diploma mills that call themselves universities and colleges? Stay away from those.

Thank you so much for speaking the truth and the way I really feel about this whole 'Everyone Needs a Degree' mentality!

I have a degree but am not working in that field at all. I've had a variety of jobs in my life, some paid well, others did not and most didn't care if you had a degree or not.