Jessie Ventura's defamation lawsuit against Chris Kyle

Summary: Chris Kyle was a Navy Seal and he wrote a book entitled American Sniper. In the book Kyle claimed that he punched out a celebrity in a bar when the celebrity said the Seals could "stand to lose a few." The celebrity was un-named in the book but Kyle went on a book tour and identified the celebrity as Ventura. The story grew from there.

Ventura filed a defamation suit and the jury ruled this week that the story was indeed fabricated. Ventura was awarded 1.8 million in damages. Cue the web whining about Ventura is suing a "widow with kids" and the "widow of a fallen hero" A former Navy Seal is speaking out against Ventura and a mob is forming. Even Anderson Cooper is getting in the act with tweets against Ventura.

References:

Washington Post story about falsifications in book, and IRL which appear to be multiple

Washington Post Story about verdict

The Blaze, some breederific comments

My thoughts are this: Ventura is a douche, but Chris Kyle told a lie about Ventura and he profited from this lie. (According to a commenter in the Blaze article, the book's sales were flat until Kyle identified Ventura and started making the talk show circuit, including many appearances on Faux News.)

Is Ventura supposed to do nothing?

I really don't like the way our country is going. If you wear a socially acceptable label, you can do no wrong:

fallen hero = you can do no wrong, even if the record shows you wrote falsehoods in your book
"widow with children" = saint, therefore let's demonize someone whose husband caused him harm

Thoughts?

Eh, I don't really want to get into too much discussion over this, but, as far as I know, it's only Ventura's claim that Kyle lied. Meanwhile, Kyle had at least 11 witnesses testify in court that the altercation did happen.

I don't want to get into a broader discussion really, but, Ventura has spouted a lot of anti-American things over the years, so I wouldn't be surprised if this happened just as Kyle said.

Also, Ventura is deep into the conspiracy theory thing. Whereas I'm sure that governments and people DO do things conspiratorally at times, this guy thinks and claims everything that happens is a conspiracy. I can't take him seriously at all.

As far that the lawsuit's impact, this is really one situation where I don't rail against hearing "but what about the chylllllllllllldren". Because this is taking money that Kyle earned away from his famblee, by someone who I believe is a liar -- Ventura.

I'm sure I would have a large problem with it if I thought Ventura was telling the truth and was actually defamed. In that case, I wouldn't want anyone to profit off a lie, much less would I feel like their children deserved those profits. Since I tend to believe Kyle and the 11 witnesses, I don't have a problem this time around. And even though I don't like kyds and money-grabs, this money was earned via Chris Kyle and so it belongs to them.

Now, certainly, I think Mrs. Kyle needs to go out and get a job in addition to the book money -- if she doesn't have one already -- since it's her job to solely support these kyds now that she's widowed.

That being said, that's only my 2 cents, and I respect anyone whose opinion differs.

I don't have anything vested in either side--it just seemed like more of the "for the chyldrun" bullshit. As we know, having kids doesn't mean you are a more honest person--you're just a person and sometimes people lie.

I hadn't heard about the 11 people. Will have to do some more sleuthing.

ETA: found this link, which says they did meet:

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/2014/07/29/jury-rules-for-ventura-in-defamation-trial/13321967/

I have no dog in this hunt as I think both were blowhards with big egos and big mouths. I never cared for The Body and never bought into the Kyle=Great American Hero either. Perhaps because we were taught that a SEAL never has to brag about being a SEAL.

Yes, every site out there with the exception of Popehat is playing the mommy and her kids card. Yes, everyone thinks Ventura is the liar and even worse for attacking a mommy and her kids. He was made a pariah in the SEAL community thanks to Kyle's book which had him saying SEALS deserve to die, and even more of one for attacking the mommy and her kids. She is upset about her husband being called a liar in court....even though it proved he was...but Ventura is the bag of dicks for not letting it go and attacking the mommy and her kids.

Kyle was a teller of tall tales--what we call a fucking liar. His stories include shooting to death two carjackers but getting away with it when the cops were told to call a sooper secret squirrel DOD number who informed them that they had the greatest sniper evah and to let him go (no police report, no bodies no video, nadu) was declared a hoax by the local PD. He also had one where he choked out a UT football player, in another another he shot looters from the top of the Superdome during Katrina. Seems Kyle got off on that larger than life persona he created for himself as a SEAL.

Unlike most posters out there, I read some of the court paperwork.

1. Everyone is playing like he sued the poor widdle widow and his kyds. Well, she named herself executor of the estate. She was named as such. This means that Jesse did NOT sue the widow. It clearly states "Executrix of the estate".

2. The most damage appears to be done by Kyle's witnesses and even Kyle himself; in a video deposition he actually contradicted what he himself had written in the book. He changed his own story...then when called on it admitted he did not remember details or how he got them or even what Ventura allegedly said. The witnesses refused to testify, or had such wildly varying stories that they could not be believed. Ultimately it was determined that they were so shitfaced that they remember nothing.

Ventura's witnesses, fellow SEALs, said they were not with him every second but with him that night AND the next day and said nothing was mentioned of a brawl and no injuries were found on Ventura. Of note is that he was on blood thinners so he would definitely be bloodied and bruised...and video and pictures show him without a single scratch.

And even if you threw out all the buddies of either party a majority of witnesses saw no brawl that night.

3. Here is a link to the rules of the jury. This is extensive and damn near impossible to win without irrefutable evidence. Note number 8...which explains that the widow was not being sued.

4. 500K was determined to be actual damages to Ventura. That will likely be paid by the publisher's liability insurance. And according to unverified sources, they paid for the Kyle defense too. Poor little widow, she ain't.

5. The rest was for unjust enrichment....did Kyle basically use Ventura to boost sales? And right in Ventura's opposition paperwork there is this little gem:

Sharyn Rosenblum (the book publicist) testified that Kyle was an “unknown author” at the time American Sniper was released, and that only 3,400 copies of the book had been ordered as of January 3, 2012--the day before Kyle went on Opie and Anthony and repeated his defamatory story about Ventura. (only 3400 copies...in other words, no one was really that interested. Probably because he was an unknown.)The day after Kyle announced on Opie and Anthony that the Scruff Face sub-chapter was about an encounter with Ventura, Rosenblum,according to her testimony, was able to book Kyle on The O’Reilly Factor, the number one rated evening news program on television.

The jury was able to watch Kyle’s January 5, 2012, interview with Bill O’Reilly, where the very first question O’Reilly asked was about the alleged Ventura incident.

Rosenblum and Peter Hubbard (executive editor at Harper Collins) testified that book sales skyrocketed the day after the O’Reilly interview, causing the publisher to print an additional 100,000 copies. Testimony from Rosenblum and Hubbard showed that the publicity Kyle received from his interviews about the alleged incident with Ventura caused book sales to “go crazy” and exceed all expectations, with the book’s publisher organizing a marketing campaign around the Ventura story to increase sales.

According to the evidence, by January 22, 2012, American Sniper was No. 2 on the New York Times Bestseller list, and it went to No. 1 by January 29, 2012. The book has since been on a number of “best-seller” lists, and Hubbard testified that the book has now sold more than 1.5 million copies. In addition to testimony regarding book sales and the revenue generated thereby, Ventura also submitted checks and royalty statements showing the number of books sold, the percentage of each sale that went to Kyle and the Estate, and the total profit made by the
Estate to date. (in excess of 6 million, at that time)

Further, Taya Kyle testified that the movie rights were optioned to Warner Bros. Entertainment, Inc., which is producing a film version of the book with Clint Eastwood as director and Hollywood stars Bradley Cooper and Sienna Miller playing the lead roles. This Court has already held that Ventura need not produce “any sp ecific evidence linking Warner Brothers’ interest in a film adaptation to the Ventura story,” because “if the Ventura story garnered publicity and dramatically increased book sales, it does not stretch logic to believe it could have generated Kyle’s Warner Brothers contract also.”

So basically, their side admitted using Ventura to boost what was looking to be lackluster sales. And it worked...coincidence?

If Kyle had said he wanted to keep the identity of "Scruff Face" under his hat, there would be no defamation case but would the book have been as successful? He may well have a compelling story without it.

Ventura's take is less than a dollar per book sold. I think that is fair, considering he was a pivotal part of its success.

Word is the widow is unwilling to accept any talk of her husband being a liar...but unconfirmed comments state that in the book he admits to screwing around on her. So hunny, like it or not, he is a liar. She is expected to appeal though nothing confirmed yet. However, the publisher scrambled quickly to get a presser out announcing that future prints would have the whole "Scruff Face" chapter removed (which does not look promising come appeal time.)

While they are trial briefs, here is some of the witness stuff...and why they were not believable. Also noteworthy was how JV side was factual, while CK was all emoting about "taking money I need to raise my kyyyyds". She also played emotion when suing the partners of her late husband's company...worth the read. http://www.scribd.com/doc/219635030/Jesse-Ventura-and-Taya-Kyle-s-Trial-Briefs

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

I never really had respect for a braggart. Kyle always came across as that.

Don't SEALs normally keep their history under their hat? Hell, WWII vets won't talk about their service.

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juniper jupiter
I never really had respect for a braggart. Kyle always came across as that.

Don't SEALs normally keep their history under their hat? Hell, WWII vets won't talk about their service.

It's certainly the case most of the time. I've met a few SEALs when I was still in the Navy, but none of them ever talked about what they did or where they went. The same can be said of almost every military member that's been in a combat situation...if they've been in the shit, they don't talk about it. We had a family friend who was in Vietnam; I once asked him about it, and he said he didn't really want to talk about it...which I totally understood. Those who talk about it a lot are usually full of shit.

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I was once told that the guy bragging about being a SEAL is almost always a fraud. Too bad this is not the case anymore.

Her whole plan of attack was to say JV was stealing money she needs to raise her kids. She does not work. She is a SAHM who planned to homeskool.

Both had the chance to settle for zero dollars. Both said fuck you, we're going to trial. She gambled and lost.

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

And because moos are a special kind of stupid, she decided to petition for a retrial!

In filings Thursday, Taya Kyle's attorneys say the applicable laws and the trial evidence don't support the jury's award of $1.8 million for defamation and unjust enrichment.

Former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle wrote that he decked Ventura at a bar in 2006 after Ventura made offensive comments about SEALs. Ventura says the confrontation never happened.

Kyle's considered the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history. He was killed in Texas last year.

Taya Kyle's attorneys say Ventura didn't meet his burden of proving the story was false, and that Kyle knew it was false or probably false.

Unfortunately, her dead husband and his publishers long ago admitted the book was not selling (only 3400 copies had been ordered nationwide) until he started dropping JV's name in TV and radio interviews. And the publicists told him to keep using his name as a marketing tool...hence the unjust enrichment.

One juror has spoken up and said that Kyle's own witnesses, combined with JV showing no signs of a fight in photographs taken that night and the next day, are what won the case. Apparently the defense timeline helped 80 percent of the jurors find for the plaintiff.

My take: Her lawyers should tell her that "it did not go my way" is not grounds for an appeal, much less a retrial.

And this time, it is unlikely the publishers will pay for it so it will cost her huge. She already gambled and lost once. What makes her so sure she will win again?

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

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My take: Her lawyers should tell her that "it did not go my way" is not grounds for an appeal, much less a retrial.

That's not going to pay their fee.

Bob McDonnell, the former governor of Virginia, turned down a deal where he would have pled guilty to ONE count and charges against his wife would have been dropped. His law team convinced him he could win and he was convicted of 11 counts. His wife got 9 counts. They are both going to prison for a while.

Link

Moral of the story: don't believe everything lawyers tell you, especially when the course of action means more money for them.

ETA: I think what swayed the stories for me was that Ventura was on blood thinners. Taking a punch like that would have caused all kinds of issues and by all accounts, Ventura's face was pristine during the alleged incident.

WOW...I would have pled...

The pics of JV were a huge part. The witnesses claim he was drinking heavily (not on coumadin he wasn't) and that he went down. Never happened.

However Kyle's side devised a timeline, where witnesses claim things went down. Several claimed that the fight happened and JV produced a receipt from the airport car rental place that showed he was not there yet.

Do I think CK got in a fight and did a punch and run? Yep. He strikes me as the kind to do it. But it was not JV who was the recipient.

I would feel bad for the widow as I think her lawyers are leading her down the road of false expectation. However, she knew about the lie and even encouraged her husband so I don't feel bad at all.

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

I don't know anything about this case, however this thought -

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I really don't like the way our country is going. If you wear a socially acceptable label, you can do no wrong

popped out at me and reminded me of something I saw earlier -

It was an ad for some vacay spot (Universal ? don't remember) - it was wall to wall kids, everything was focused on the kids, even the adults 'partying' included the kids and I remember thinking - it's almost like adults don't matter at all anymore, like they've written us all off and now ONLY kids matter.

Zzelda, your quote sums up this case nicely.

JV is seen as nuttier than squirrel shit. He does not belong to the Big Two political parties and does tinfoil hat stories (though he was right about the NSA.) Because of this, he is an unacceptable label.

The Kyles are friends with the Palins, so they are patriots. Wave those flags. Don't forget your made in China yellow ribbon. Rah Rah, he killed lots of bad people.

Him being dead (IMO a product of his own non-thinking; take the guy with PTSD and psychotic episodes fishing, not shooting) just adds to things.

The poor widow. The fatherless kids. HIs kids will have to eat dirt and old shoes because Jesse Ventura sued them. Forget the fact that CK used him as a marketing tool, and that the book with little interest before that is now a NYT bestseller and going to be a Clint Eastwood movie.

At the end of the day, I don't see grounds for an appeal, much less a retrial. "I didn't win" is not grounds for one. The paperwork states he cannot collect unjust enrichment based on defamation. Who says they did...he was used as a marketing tool and is due compensation as such. And they are still pushing their witnesses, which were found sorely lacking by they jury.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."