Parental woes - mother addition!

My relationship with my mother has come to a point I want to limit contact and interaction because of her behavior and seeming inability to change it. I own my wrongs, but she doesn't "remember" hers in past attempts on my part to try and amend the dysfunction, so attempting to do so again is not a viable option for me at this time because it wouldn't be productive. She's being an absolute pill lately and ruining special things for others. Illness is partially a factor but it's always been a little bit like this, just worse lately. I'm getting fed up and need to vent a little. I chose Bratfree as a safe space to share because it's not populated with all the breeder-pleasers and humpers I'd likely encounter elsewhere on the interwebz who would tell me I'm a horrible monster for not worshipping my mother and placing her on a pedestal for simply being my mother, accuse me of being "ungrateful" and also because this is a favorite community of mine and I've been posting on and off for years now and know that the people here are awesome and understanding.

She ruined a special event for my husband recently because she wanted to go do something all together afterwards, something really specific, that hadn't been planned in advance, and when we said we weren't really interested in that but would happily walk around the city together while her and my stepdad did the thing and meet them for dinner later, she said that if we didn't go do the thing with her she just wanted to go home. Knowing her games and how she'd pout later and blame us for depriving her of an experience she wanted because we didn't go, we capitulated. I feel terrible about that because my husband wanted to just explore the city we were in for the event - he'd never really been there before and wanted to check it out. That really put a damper on the day and made it terribly unpleasant. She made something for my husband all about her.

There's a lot of detail and there are several examples from the past when she's been like this, and I'm starting to get so fed up with her that I like her less than I used to, and find I want to spend less and less time around her. She's also been a chronic complainer. Like nothing is ever OK. Everything about every situation sucks and she'll just sit and whine about everything. The food at the restaurant sucks, the service sucks, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's snowing, it's not snowing, people are bad drivers, there's nothing on TV, the dog shit on the carpet, the neighbors were using their leaf blower for a couple of hours while she was trying to take a nap, work sucks, you name it, she complains. It's exhausting.

She never asks me or my husband how we're doing or what's going on in our lives. It's just a tirade of her complaining about her life and other bullshit. She's been snapping at my stepdad and treating him like shit lately as well. I'm getting so utterly tired of her shit. We usually meet up once a week for dinner but I'm starting to think something like once or twice a month will be enough. I live in the same city because I happened to be born in a city I like. I have a good job and friends here, so moving several thousand miles away just to avoid her isn't something I plan. But I can visit less frequently. Nobody is holding a gun to my head to visit my parents every single week.

What is it with Mothers?

Sounds like shades of my Mom, plus several other members here will tell you similar tales.

Bottom line? She's a manipulator.

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I own my wrongs, but she doesn't "remember" hers

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she said that if we didn't go do the thing with her she just wanted to go home.

This is clear cut emotional manipulation.

My Mom is the same way.

What I have done to deal with this -

For a long time I beat my head against the wall trying to make her (and other relatives) 'see my point of view' so to say, or to even see simple logic. They STILL wouldn't listen and just stepped up the manipulation and blame.

You have to stand your ground and know that you are right - for what's best for you. And for simple common courtesy too - if you make plans with anyone - you follow through. Everyone knows 'that's right', you don't act like an ass and try to manipulate, try that with friends or work assoc's and see how fast you become friendless and unemployed. So you know you're in the right. THEY know too - which is why they bank on the 'guilt' factor.

Ima tell you one tale about my Mom, from recently -

I could write a book about what an ASSHOLE she is - here's a recent excerpt ~

A few years ago I was badly injured, got sick (injury got infected), and nearly died. What happened was - I was just 'out walking' - to get some exercise - and I fell into polluted water. Not even 'water' per se - just 'wet grass' really. But I did rip up my leg pretty bad. There must've been rocks, right below my right knee - I tore a big hole in the flesh there, it was a really gruesome injury, I got a good look at my skeleton, eeeeek. I'm 'slim to average' and there's not much meat on those bones there for anyone, it took over 20 stitches to close this gash.

And then it got infected ~

Back to the Hospital I went. But a diff one because a new neighbor there, that I barely knew, told me I should go to a Hospital in Chi because 'something is really wrong' - you better go to a bigger / better Hospital etc. And so I did.

And because I was *so sick* by this point - like into hallucinating and passing out range - I called my Mom and begged her to take me.

So I called my Mom, again - she lives right over here in SW Lower MI, and - at the time - she was 'here' in the W. Burbs visiting other relatives - so even closer. I had to beg her to take me, she said - 'There's nothing wrong with you'. I finally convinced her and she came and took me to Loyola Hospital in Chi.

They took one look at me - and booked me right in. In fact - they started operating on my leg - right there in the ER! And because they would let someone come in with you, my Mom was allowed into this ER area and saw the injury. Which was by then a HUGE INFECTED MESS - to the point they were threatening me with amputation if I didn't stay. And or possible DEATH ~

So anyway, she did see 'it' - and says to the Docs, Nurses, and Techs (there were like EIGHT PEOPLE working on me) - "Couldn't she have just put Peroxide on that"?

And that is when they THREW HER OUT. Eyerolls all around and they literally dragged her out to the waiting area.

THIS is my Mother. She's an uncaring ASSHOLE. And always has been.

I'm nearly DYING - I'm *thisclose* to amputation - THIS is what she says? Blames me, yet again?

Oh, it's nothing. Just like anything else I say or encounter. Just put Peroxide on it. I nearly died from this. They caught it just in time. And you know things are bad when they take one look at you and immediately hustle you in and begin work on you right away. Bad. Very bad. It was infected with e.coli - which can kill you.

THEY saved my life! She would've ignored it. As she always did, with everything. My thoughts and feelings NEVER mattered. Not even gross injury that anyone *can see* that there is something horribly WRONG here ~

Just put Peroxide on it.

That was THE BEST PART! of the Hospital stay (and I was in there over a week and had additional surgeries on the leg) - the best part was when they literally THREW HER OUT!

Others saw her for what she is. She too keeps up a front like she's a 'nice person'.

She isn't.

How to deal with these types?

You have to 'stand your ground' on your own plans / own personality and not let them 'get to you'. I know, it isn't easy. The best thing for me is knowing / telling myself - I know I'm right / I know what's best *for me*. And you have to be strong and 'tune it out'. And not 'fall for it'.

There's a wealth of jerk parents and relatives among us BFers here - I'm sure they'll have some good stories and tips for you too.

Hang in there
We know 'how it is' and we are here for you

If anybody's on reddit, there is a subreddilt, raisedbynarcissists that is full of tales of people with toxic mothers(parents). It is notoriously hard to get a true narcissist diagnosed, so everybody who experienced toxic parenting is allowed, you don't need a formal diagnosis for the parent.

I like that sub because all of a sudden the pattern of my childhood is not unique and unusual. EVERYBODY there has parts of my story with different details. It's like toxic people are given a handbook on emotional(etc) abuse when they have children and they ALL use it.

It really helped me see how everything my mom told me I am is her projecting onto me. I'm the scapegat, I am the receptacle of everything she hates about herself, her ego is much too fragile to bear that side of her, so I must.
I am not a liar, I was not sexually active at age 8, I am not evil personified. These are all her. She lies whenever it suits her and makes shit up wholesale, she was covertly incestuous and her church told her all sexual feelings are sins so I must be the one feeling perverted, not her, she herself has such shallow and horrible motivations for what she does that it manifests as passive aggressive manipulation, ie evil.

I was so confused by her parenting that I am functionally socially retarded. Turns out it is "just" PTSD, so many normal things got me in so much trouble I have rewired my brain to deal with her and my father's abuse that it will take a lot of work to evict what she and my dad did from my brain.

Zelda and Presto - many, many *HUGS* sent your way! It sucks that our parents suck, but we are awesome and that's what matters! You guys both had to endure much fuckery from your mothers.

I'm reluctant to call my mother a total narcissist. When I was a kid she took care of us and our medical/personal needs, made sure the school did something about bullies on our behalf, etc. She didn't scapegoat or golden-child either of us. But she has always been really emotionally hungry as well as petulant and self centered in a childish way. Some of her behavior has been emotionally abusive (getting drunk every night in my teens and regularly waking me up on school nights to scold me about shit I'd done months or years prior, then getting upset that I didn't get awesome grades during that period of time, as an example - lucky stepdad threatened leaving her once he got to know how chronic her drinking was getting and that shaped her up in that regard), and she is a guilt-oriented manipulator. I chalk her up to being extremely emotionally immature. Her development re: emotional intelligence halted somewhere around the age of 13.

Even if she wasn't the most abusive parent I've heard of, nor did she neglect any pressing medical needs of my sister and I, she was always obnoxious and a guilt-manipulator. I do think she genuinely feels empathy for people when she learns something is wrong with someone, but she doesn't take initiative herself to check in with people or ask them how they feel about something or how they've been doing. You have to bring it up yourself, and she seems only interested for a few moments before her attention span peters out and she'll switch topics to something her-related.

The narcissistic abuse I endured that left the greatest mark on my life was with my ex whom I spent 6 years on and off with. I found that the reddit sub lifeafternarcissism helped me the most with that, and the sub that I like the most for dysfunctional mother issues is justnomil - primarily about mother in laws, but crazy mom stories of any kind are welcome there. I came really close to sharing a more detailed version of my story in that sub but I chickened out. I'm really guarded about my online privacy and the internet never forgets, so I wanted to try and doctor up the story so that it wouldn't sound "too familiar" to anyone who may know me or my relatives in real life.

I do often wonder if the fact that my mom is very emotionally manipulative by means of guilt kind of groomed me to be the perfect source of narcissistic supply for my ex. To say nay against my mother or disagree with her would bring great, obvious disappointment to her and thus I grew up afraid to be "selfish" in any way, and I think such a "selfless" person is easy prey for narcissists.

So now I'm getting older and I'm more of the mindset of wanting to give zero fucks and do my thing, and visit my mother far, far less! If she gets mad about something unreasonable again, I'm still going to do what's best for me and my partner. If she doesn't like it I'm going to just let her be mad. It can't hurt me if she's mad. I don't depend on her for anything.

My only advice is do what's best for you. I have encountered emotionally needy people, and the only thing you can do is just distance yourself from them. Like you said, if she gets mad, let her be mad. You're not responsible for her happiness just because she happened to give birth to you. One day her behaviour is going to push everyone away, and that'll be her loss.
My mother is nowhere near as bad as that, but she does have her moments.

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Zzelda

They took one look at me - and booked me right in. In fact - they started operating on my leg - right there in the ER! And because they would let someone come in with you, my Mom was allowed into this ER area and saw the injury. Which was by then a HUGE INFECTED MESS - to the point they were threatening me with amputation if I didn't stay. And or possible DEATH ~

So anyway, she did see 'it' - and says to the Docs, Nurses, and Techs (there were like EIGHT PEOPLE working on me) - "Couldn't she have just put Peroxide on that"?

And that is when they THREW HER OUT. Eyerolls all around and they literally dragged her out to the waiting area.

THIS is my Mother. She's an uncaring ASSHOLE. And always has been.

I'm nearly DYING - I'm *thisclose* to amputation - THIS is what she says? Blames me, yet again?

This almost brought me to tears. I'd treat a stranger with this condition with more respect than she gave you!
It isn't you, it is her. Remember that.

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Presto
If anybody's on reddit, there is a subreddilt, raisedbynarcissists that is full of tales of people with toxic mothers(parents). It is notoriously hard to get a true narcissist diagnosed, so everybody who experienced toxic parenting is allowed, you don't need a formal diagnosis for the parent.

I like that sub because all of a sudden the pattern of my childhood is not unique and unusual. EVERYBODY there has parts of my story with different details. It's like toxic people are given a handbook on emotional(etc) abuse when they have children and they ALL use it.

Thanks for this. Was shocked at how familiar most of the stories were and had no idea about the term 'narcissist.'

Of all the self-help books I've read, the one that spoke most clearly to me was Victoria Secunda's _When You and Your Mother Can't Be Friends_ (1990; it may be out of print now, but Bookfinder.com can find anything).

The book lists five types of toxic mothers: the Doormat, the Critic, the Smotherer, the Avenger, the Deserter. It also lists five types of roles that children of toxic mothers often choose to play: the Angel, the Superachiever, the Cipher, the Troublemaker, and the Defector (I'm a Defector and I suspect a majority of the people on this board are as well).

I can't say enough good things about this book: you'll say "Yes!" on every page, you'll find strength you could not believe possible, and--most important--you'll learn You Are Not Alone.

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cosmictraveler
I live in the same city because I happened to be born in a city I like. I have a good job and friends here, so moving several thousand miles away just to avoid her isn't something I plan. But I can visit less frequently. Nobody is holding a gun to my head to visit my parents every single week.

I'd definitely suggest visiting less frequently, make up any excuse. Your mental health is so worth it!

Moved away from the family years ago and it wasn't until this happened that I grasped the full perspective on how dysfunctional they are. The light eventually dawned on me and I realized that unlike them I can choose to be happy or miserable and limit the company I keep accordingly. Everyday is a blessing now because I live thousands of miles away.

When I complimented/thanked my mom for her holiday gift last year her reply was "I like it too and should have kept it for myself" so I quickly ended the call because she was blatantly rude. If I would have said that to her she would have had a huge melt down.

She sits around moody and ruins everyone else's holiday unless things go perfectly for her according to some grand idealistic fantasy plan in her head, which they never do. Total holidayzilla if one ever existed and if not I'm coining the term because it fits her to a T. Could tell at the beginning of the call she was pissy already by the tone of her voice and the fact that I didn't acknowledge it and fall for her manipulation made it worse. If I don't call within a very specific window of time all hell breaks loose. She chooses to base her happiness on a huge amount of factors she can't control and makes everyone else stuck in the same house with her miserable when things don't go 100% according to her plan. Never once has she decided to enjoy the holiday despite everything not going according to her plan. The meltdowns...complete with: associated guilt trips, pissy moods, sulking, whining, etc. is how she controls other people. And if any friend, neighbor, etc. dare not give her a thank you or make her feel appreciated enough she will rage on for 30 minutes about it to her family. Next comes the lecture about how we'd better always say thank you, despite the fact that we are all grown adults and she has grandkids which are teenagers who'd probably rather stab an icepick in their ears than hear it again. And if you're late to holiday dinner everyone else will be sitting there hangry and waiting on you forbidden to eat while the food either burns, dries out or becomes cold even if it is hours late due to circumstances out of your control. Another meltdown evoked. I've become sick more than once from not eating due to lunch being delayed until 4 pm or later.

And she will engage in all of this behavior if I don't agree to go to church with her IMMEDIATELY when visiting. She'll insert it in the conversation within the first five minutes because, you know, appearances and all. She is a total asshole until I agree to attend. And she is like this with pretty much everything, nothing is too petty. She doesn't pick her battles, she makes everything a battle. In 2012 I was in my car when she called me while driving and my Bluetooth stopped working, she has refused to call me one time since then and decided to hold a grudge
against me for Bluetooth failure. There are probably 1000 other petty little grudges she holds against me due to my being a human but I refuse to engage her on any of this. Still very bitter and angry that I don't live nearby.

As a child I had no choice but to put up with this crap. As an adult I greatly limit visits and end unproductive conversations. Other people have family members dying, divorce, job loss, addiction, etc. and handle their circumstances with much more grace than holidayzilla. I've spent the holidays with friends and I have to tell you it was 1000 times more relaxing, fun, no controlling or guilt trips, no 10000000 rules and obligations, no lectures. Just fun and celebration. Until my friends had to take a call from their mothers that is.

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Knowing her games and how she'd pout later and blame us for depriving her of an experience she wanted because we didn't go, we capitulated. I feel terrible about that because my husband wanted to just explore the city we were in for the event - he'd never really been there before and wanted to check it out. That really put a damper on the day and made it terribly unpleasant. She made something for my husband all about her.
...
She never asks me or my husband how we're doing or what's going on in our lives. It's just a tirade of her complaining about her life and other bullshit.
.....
So now I'm getting older and I'm more of the mindset of wanting to give zero fucks and do my thing, and visit my mother far, far less! If she gets mad about something unreasonable again, I'm still going to do what's best for me and my partner. If she doesn't like it I'm going to just let her be mad. It can't hurt me if she's mad. I don't depend on her for anything.

That last part is the correct attitude, IMO. You have a mate, he comes first. Having allowed your mother to spoil his day, keep the memory of that around so that whenever she pulls that kind of crap again, you'll be able to balance how he was disappointed against her entitled expectations and decide what is more important.

I've been there myself with my grandmother. She was an expert manipulator. I swear, it has to be innate to people with a certain kind of personality because I could never figure out the first step to getting my own way like she did, but she was an expert.

I coddled her when I was young and unattached, giving her one of my days off each freaking week. I blush for myself in being such a pansy, back then. When I began dating my now-Dh, that frequency dropped. And, somehow, I found the resolve to not give in to her tantrums. I wouldn't even introduce him to her until we were engaged. I guess it was because this weird feeling happened when I started seeing future-Dh - I was happy. Really, truly buoyant and happy. Never felt that way before; I didn't want to mess things up.

My grandmother saw that as a threat, which made me cut down on seeing her even more. It wasn't until after I was married that she pulled out the big guns, declaring Dh to be an undesirable and not wanting him around. She lost big time when she tried a bluff, telling me "YOU can come around, but HE can't." This was after some small disagreement they had about a not-important issue - which he apologized for stating. When I told her that if Dh wasn't welcome, then I wasn't either, she said "fine." Despite the flying monkeys she sent after me, in the form of other relatives (who didn't want to take on the chores I did for her), I stood my ground and stated that she would respect my mate's position to me (#1 forever after) or I would never see her again. And I didn't.

Those self-absorbed women ... they won't adapt to or accept any position that brings them less attention than what they've enjoyed before. You just have to drop the rope with them and become detached. They won't change.

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Dorisan

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Knowing her games and how she'd pout later and blame us for depriving her of an experience she wanted because we didn't go, we capitulated. I feel terrible about that because my husband wanted to just explore the city we were in for the event - he'd never really been there before and wanted to check it out. That really put a damper on the day and made it terribly unpleasant. She made something for my husband all about her.
...
She never asks me or my husband how we're doing or what's going on in our lives. It's just a tirade of her complaining about her life and other bullshit.
.....
So now I'm getting older and I'm more of the mindset of wanting to give zero fucks and do my thing, and visit my mother far, far less! If she gets mad about something unreasonable again, I'm still going to do what's best for me and my partner. If she doesn't like it I'm going to just let her be mad. It can't hurt me if she's mad. I don't depend on her for anything.

That last part is the correct attitude, IMO. You have a mate, he comes first. Having allowed your mother to spoil his day, keep the memory of that around so that whenever she pulls that kind of crap again, you'll be able to balance how he was disappointed against her entitled expectations and decide what is more important.

I've been there myself with my grandmother. She was an expert manipulator. I swear, it has to be innate to people with a certain kind of personality because I could never figure out the first step to getting my own way like she did, but she was an expert.

I coddled her when I was young and unattached, giving her one of my days off each freaking week. I blush for myself in being such a pansy, back then. When I began dating my now-Dh, that frequency dropped. And, somehow, I found the resolve to not give in to her tantrums. I wouldn't even introduce him to her until we were engaged. I guess it was because this weird feeling happened when I started seeing future-Dh - I was happy. Really, truly buoyant and happy. Never felt that way before; I didn't want to mess things up.

My grandmother saw that as a threat, which made me cut down on seeing her even more. It wasn't until after I was married that she pulled out the big guns, declaring Dh to be an undesirable and not wanting him around. She lost big time when she tried a bluff, telling me "YOU can come around, but HE can't." This was after some small disagreement they had about a not-important issue - which he apologized for stating. When I told her that if Dh wasn't welcome, then I wasn't either, she said "fine." Despite the flying monkeys she sent after me, in the form of other relatives (who didn't want to take on the chores I did for her), I stood my ground and stated that she would respect my mate's position to me (#1 forever after) or I would never see her again. And I didn't.

Those self-absorbed women ... they won't adapt to or accept any position that brings them less attention than what they've enjoyed before. You just have to drop the rope with them and become detached. They won't change.

THIS! I still feel terrible about how the day was pretty much shot for my husband. He maintains that it wasn't the huge deal I think it is, but on principle, I do think it's a big deal. It's a lesson learned in having a backbone.

What's such a mindfuck to me is that it's such a Jeckyl and Hyde situation. She's done a lot for me, including coming to pick me up shit-ass wasted from a party I got stranded at when I was younger, and not yelling at me or even criticizing me for it, saying she was happy to do it and would do it again, or being cool about it and even having a sense of humor about it when I needed to call her in the middle of the night because I locked myself out of my apartment and she had a spare key. She'll often give little gifts just because and things like this too. Then she'll turn around and pull shit like this. It's emotionally confusing.

I have been a total enabler in the past, because some primal part of me fears her being disappointed in me, which makes me feel like a total pussy as well. It's too stupid. I really want to give zero fucks. We lost my FIL recently - he had been ill for quite some time, and she knew about it, and never once did she ask how he was doing or anything. When he died, she gave my husband some condolences on Fakebooger, but when we met up for dinner IRL some days after the funeral, she didn't say one thing to him about it, she didn't even ask him how he was doing, but rather bitched and bemoaned the entire dinner about how haaaard life has been for her lately. It's so hard for me to emotionally reconcile these two sides of my mother's personality that I really, as the kids say these days, "just can't even" anymore. My give a damn is slowly, but surely, breaking.

Your highest priority is to protect yourself (and your husband) from your mother, and if that means avoiding her, then that's what you should do. I know you've already gotten good advice and support here, but I just wanted to add mine and say I've got the same Jeckyl and Hyde situation with my upbringing, and I really feel for you. It is NOT easy.