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Universal basic income...

Posted by cfdavep 
Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-just-made-4-223017497.html

....in a horribly overpopulated world. I wonder if this could be the future and what to do with endless people getting a free survival wage with no way to have meaning though work or avocation. How will it be paid for? Interesting
Re: Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
Quote
cfdavep
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-just-made-4-223017497.html

....in a horribly overpopulated world. I wonder if this could be the future and what to do with endless people getting a free survival wage with no way to have meaning though work or avocation. How will it be paid for? Interesting



Where will the money for the UBI come from?

Will the top 1% just hand it over to the hoards of masses? So they can breed millions more unneeded workers?
Re: Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
Quote
StudioFiftyFour
Quote
cfdavep
https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-just-made-4-223017497.html

....in a horribly overpopulated world. I wonder if this could be the future and what to do with endless people getting a free survival wage with no way to have meaning though work or avocation. How will it be paid for? Interesting



Where will the money for the UBI come from?

Will the top 1% just hand it over to the hoards of masses? So they can breed millions more unneeded workers?

Maybe cutting from the budget of the Wehrmacht and the Military Industrial Complex?

It's funny that whenever it comes to doing things to help the lives of regular people, the response is always "Where are we going to get the money from?" But when it comes to corporate welfare and warmongering, it's always "Approved! Next!"
Re: Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
I remember the promise of automation was that we would all just work a couple hours a day and that all that leisure time would mean that art and literature and philosophy would be our main pursuits. Currently, eight billionaires are as rich as the poorest half of world population, so where to get the money is no problem - they won't even notice it's gone. But UBI won't fix it, because people without meaningful work don't pursue art, they breed. And breed. And breed.

Also, billionaires who are willing to make their money using suicidal Taiwanese slave labor or by raping the environment aren't going to give it up to anyone but lobbyists and politicians to make sure that the unwashed masses don't get their grubby hands on it. If you want money, you should inherit it yourself.
Re: Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
Quote
keeper of traken

Maybe cutting from the budget of the Wehrmacht and the Military Industrial Complex?

It's funny that whenever it comes to doing things to help the lives of regular people, the response is always "Where are we going to get the money from?" But when it comes to corporate welfare and warmongering, it's always "Approved! Next!"



Regular people should be helping themselves. While I'm completely opposed to corporate welfare, and do want a limited military, I think you've got to look at this future scenario with lenses that are adequately coated in reality rather than utopian fantasy.

The ultra rich will not (and likely can not) be willing to support LITERALLY hundreds of millions of people in the US, and billions of people worldwide with a "Universal Basic Income."

Some techno-narcissists predict utopian visions of a happy world where robots/AIs/automated devices do all of the work, and in the meantime the ultra-rich elites who own the robots are all too happy to pay out the majority of their income in taxes so the peons can enjoy a "Universal Basic Income" and breed a brand new generation of other peons. This kind of thinking has transcended an entirely new realm of stupidity and delusion. Never before in human history have the elites simply given up their wealth for no good reason. These UBI dreamers are in some kind of alternative universe of reality denial. Or they are on some serious psychotropic drugs. One or the other.

Massive unemployment, for the vast majority of the population, will not lead to hoards of masses learning new languages, producing artwork, or studying classical music. Studies of long-term unemployment reveal that those who are victims of it turn to watching TV, alcohol, drugs, and crime.

I can't predict exactly what will happen, but it's safe to say what won't happen. The future is going to be f'ed up and I'm sure as hell glad I'm not bringing any children into it.
Re: Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
I would say we need a national health care system before a free income. So that people can afford birth control, operations, and even abortions if need be. Hopefully, if there is a universal income, it will not go up as people have kids, it would just be for one person.

While it is true people need something to do, I think a lot of corporate welfare is "because people need a job or there will be riots!" For example, the government did not bail out General Motors because people thought their cars were wonderful (most of them are not) but because GM exists to give people jobs. They only make cars to finance their salaries, insurance, benefits, etc.

Something like this happened with Chrysler in 1979 when a writer said that all Chrysler did for humanity was build unreliable gas guzzlers. But we have to have the jobs, that's more important!
Re: Universal basic income...
February 15, 2017
Quote
mr. neptune
I would say we need a national health care system before a free income. So that people can afford birth control, operations, and even abortions if need be. Hopefully, if there is a universal income, it will not go up as people have kids, it would just be for one person.

While it is true people need something to do, I think a lot of corporate welfare is "because people need a job or there will be riots!" For example, the government did not bail out General Motors because people thought their cars were wonderful (most of them are not) but because GM exists to give people jobs. They only make cars to finance their salaries, insurance, benefits, etc.

Something like this happened with Chrysler in 1979 when a writer said that all Chrysler did for humanity was build unreliable gas guzzlers. But we have to have the jobs, that's more important!




UBI would only come about if there were riots and we were disintegrating into a dystopia. If that happened, I'd expect the opposite to happen with the health care system, ie., UBI would only be available to those who agreed to sterilization.

The ultra-rich elites are going to get something for their "investment" into UBI, and that something would be twofold--1. no riots, and 2. the promise that the next generation would not have to deal with masses of unemployed people and future UBI.
Re: Universal basic income...
February 20, 2017
If this were to happen, then my dreams come true as being a recluse with a kindle addiction, but I would begin to hate it within the first week of not having a job. I already have a lot of time on my hands while working full time (for now) until I start online summer school. The only time I would leave home, would be to go to the lake then go shopping. I love to dovetail my errands. But then again, I'm not apart of the unwashed masses.

I hate it when people say there's nothing to do. hitting head against a brick wall There's all of these kindle books that I downloaded/got for free that I haven't read yet, and my wishlist is about over 100. They aren't going to read themselves, you know.I think I have 170 kindle books, all most all of them are non-fiction except for my umpteen Water Margin translations.

I doubt robot or computers or computers would take the jobs of medical lab technicians. If my SPD worsens along with my wanderlust, I can take up long distance truck driving. On my plus side, I can listen to my kindle books on my ipad all day and never socialize with people.

There is underwater welding and commercial scuba diving that I can take up if computers and robots take my other professions, but then again computers and robots would take over those (underwater careers) too.

If all else fails, I can always write kindle books. Computers and robots hopeful won't be able to write original content.

TL;DR: I hope robots and computers don't take our jobs.
Re: Universal basic income...
February 21, 2017
Quote
shy lurker
I doubt robot or computers or computers would take the jobs of medical lab technicians. If my SPD worsens along with my wanderlust, I can take up long distance truck driving. On my plus side, I can listen to my kindle books on my ipad all day and never socialize with people.

Long-distance truck driving is certainly on the way out with self-driving vehicles. It's certainly not a job safe from automation.

Anyhow, I agree there is plenty to do without work. I admit I'd probably lounge around much of the day reading books, but I'd probably also write stories, cook food for other people, write code for fun, and so on...all things I did when I had a year-long spell of unemployment.

I don't think there would be an outpouring of creativity if universal basic income were implemented, however. I suspect many people would be content to just sit back and watch TV and play FB games.
Re: Universal basic income...
February 21, 2017
Quote
yurble

I don't think there would be an outpouring of creativity if universal basic income were implemented, however. I suspect many people would be content to just sit back and watch TV and play FB games.

Our future:



_______________________________________________
A poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale - told by an idiot - full of sound and Fury! Signifying nothing.
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