#1801 -- The Risks

The religious right/pro-lifers love to go on about the risks of abortion to scare women into birthing those babies and for legislation to have more rules for abortion clinics, such as the size of doorways, so to keep them from doing business. However, it is far more risky to push that baby through the vaginal canal than to abort. Most women's bodies are never the same after pregnancy and childbirth. The health problems linger on for possibly a lifetime. Many women no longer want sex after having a baby. I could not imagine wanting sex after the damage pregnancy has done to my outer and inner body.

"Most are children whose brain damage was caused because hospital staff did not deliver them fast enough when the babies were suffering oxygen deprivation."

What I'd like to know is, WHY is this the hospital's fault? Maybe moo wasn't physically able to deliver a baybee? And I'd like to see the stats of how many of these "damaged" baybees were conceived through artificial means. Gee, maybe THAT could have something to do with it?

Many years ago, it was not unusual for women to die in childbirth.

I'm still a big fan of SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.

india_darshan Wrote:
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> The religious right/pro-lifers

Let's all stop calling them "pro-lifers". They are anti-abortion/anti-choicers.

I concur with CFScorpio - I think the pro-choicers are the real pro-lifers, because they respect both the rights of women and the quality of life of the fetus. What people call pro-lifers are anti-choice woman haters.

KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
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> "Most are children whose brain damage was caused
> because hospital staff did not deliver them fast
> enough when the babies were suffering oxygen
> deprivation."

What I'd like to know is, WHY is this the
> hospital's fault?
>
I've worked with many life-long OB nurses who tell me that THEY end up delivering the babies themselves b/c the doc doesn't show up until the last second or after the birth. I'm not blaming the nurses- I think the experienced ones know what they're doing. They know when it's an uneventful delivery & when to page a doc stat. The problem is that the OB docs are so busy & overscheduled that they can screw up alot. Or they rely too much on underexperienced OB nurses. And that's the docs or hospital's fault.

> Maybe moo wasn't physically able to deliver a baybee? And I'd like to see the stats of how many of these "damaged" baybees were
> conceived through artificial means. Gee, maybe
> THAT could have something to do with it?

I'd like to know those stats, too! But I think if some study DID show a connection, it would immediately be blamed on the woman's advanced maternal age since they are probably the ones mostly using the artificial means. The drug companies would be burying bodies in the desert before they'd let that info leak!

We allready know how goat cloning didn't exactly work out like they thought it would and goats become adults in only a year. So I guess in about 20 or 30 years we'll see if all these artificial conceptions, multiple litters, etc don't come with health issues later on...

> I'm still a big fan of SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.

Me too. I wonder what humans will be & look like in a thousand years after defying that basic rule for so long.
>
>
>

"anti-choice woman haters"

I would take it one step further to say that a lot of people who are against women's rights to abortion is because they view the women as evil for having engaged in sex in the first place, and they think that fitting punishment would be for them to have to birth and mother the product of their sinful ways. In other words, I think a lot of "pro-lifers" are misogynists who are being largely punitive in their desire to see the baby go to term and be born.

You're absolutely right, Guest. Anti-abortion attitudes are all about punishing the woman for having sex. Saddling a woman with an infant is the surest way to keep her in her place and to remind her of her "nasty" act on a daily basis.

india_darshan Wrote:
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> You're absolutely right, Guest. Anti-abortion
> attitudes are all about punishing the woman for
> having sex.

Who are these evil women having sex with? Themselves? Or (gasp!) MEN? Why are only the women being punished?

They taught us in catholic catechism class that pregnancy pain was a woman's "punishment" and having to support the kid was a man's "punishment". Funny how the man's is a helluva lot easier to get out of.

What the hell?! If it's only around 300 births a year, I don't see what the big freaking deal is. Now I don't know what the rate is like in England, but in the U.S. over 4million babies were born in 2002. If even 1000 of those kids were damaged due to oxygen deprivation, it still doesn't sound like it would be over an acceptable margin of error for such a common medical procedure. I am sure raising a kid with brain damage is a hassle, but you know what? That's the chance you take when you make another human being, sometimes they come out messed up and there's not much you can do except deal with it.

lv67 Wrote:
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> They taught us in catholic catechism class that
> pregnancy pain was a woman's "punishment" and
> having to support the kid was a man's
> "punishment". Funny how the man's is a helluva lot
> easier to get out of.

That is why the Catholic Church was very against any pain relief in the delivery room for a long, long time. The Church is very misogynistic. Men are next to God in the Catholic mind while a woman is nothing more than a breeder c*nt whose body is to be used up and abused with many pregnancies. Yeah...I still have much anger toward the Church...

I recently called up the local Foetus Fanatic prolife office and asked them what their hours are. They told me M-F, 10-3. I then asked her "If you love babies so much, why don't you do this FULL time?" She replied "THAT'S NOT FAIR!"

Now, recently the Abortion Mobiles with the horrendous pictures have been floating around town. The person who is head of it said that the more people complain, the LONGER they'll stay, and that it is a form of FREE SPEECH. Sure it is.

So when the woman told me that "That's Not Fair!", I said, "Free Speech is a bitch, ain't it?"

Just so you know, some old lady kept calling the cell phone that I used to call the center and leaving messages that they wanted to talk to my husband/boyfriend (they got the voice mail, which has DH's voice on it). I didn't tell DH about it, because he was pissed that I called to begin with. After all, those anti-choicers are NUTS, and they might do something to hurt us for the opinions we hold.

I notice in my area how the "pro-lifers" take a break from the clinics during the height of the hot summer or during the heavy rainy season. If these people felt that abortion was mass murder of those tiny babies, they would be outside rain or shine. The anti-choice people would not take a "vacation" from their cause to save tiny life.

what you need is some heavy duty biker types.. to patrol the clinic for protection, no one messes with bikers

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Feh Wrote:
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> What the hell?! If it's only around 300 births a
> year, I don't see what the big freaking deal is.
> Now I don't know what the rate is like in England,
> but in the U.S. over 4million babies were born in
> 2002. If even 1000 of those kids were damaged due
> to oxygen deprivation, it still doesn't sound like
> it would be over an acceptable margin of error for
> such a common medical procedure. I am sure
> raising a kid with brain damage is a hassle, but
> you know what? That's the chance you take when
> you make another human being, sometimes they come
> out messed up and there's not much you can do
> except deal with it.

A baby born due to oxygen deprivation is a baby/kid with mild to severe mental retardation. That would be yet indeed a very hard parenting job. When the brain doesn't get oxygen, it can't function.

india_darshan Wrote:
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> I notice in my area how the "pro-lifers" take a
> break from the clinics during the height of the
> hot summer or during the heavy rainy season. If
> these people felt that abortion was mass murder of
> those tiny babies, they would be outside rain or
> shine. The anti-choice people would not take a
> "vacation" from their cause to save tiny life.

Someone mentioned on a thread here that more women should admit to having had an abortion. I will admit that I have. I'm not proud of it, but it was my only option at the time.

One thing I noticed was how the protesters were there in the morning when I got there, but disappeared by 3 when I left. I guess they all had to run home to make dinner for daddy. It sure is easy to be judgmental of others when you can be a stay at home moo and have duddy pay for everything.

BTW, it was a very clean facility and the staff was wonderful. There was no pressure, unlike what the pro-anti-choicers want everyone to believe.

india_darshan Wrote:
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> lv67 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > That is why the Catholic Church was very against
> any pain relief in the delivery room for a long,
> long time. The Church is very misogynistic. Men
> are next to God in the Catholic mind while a woman
> is nothing more than a breeder c*nt whose body is
> to be used up and abused with many pregnancies.

This is a little out there, but I saw a show that said baby boys are traditionally dressed in light blue b/c blue was the color of heaven & boys were closer to god. (You usually see the virgin Mary in light blue b/c she was the only female with enough clout to wear that color).

Girls were dressed in pink/peach to signify that they were more carnal or of the flesh with their menstruation, birthing, etc. It morphed into pink = feminine & girly but it originally meant they were lower than boys. So remember that next time you buy your niece a pink dress!

I heard that girls were dressed in pink to differentiate them from boys in the heavenly/godly blue - they figure the demons would see that it was a girl by the color it was wearing, therefore, passing on taking a less-than-desirable girl.

Very interesting about the colour issues when dressing infants or children. Girls are always seen as lesser in the eyes of many parents. People often want the Almighty Boys when the wives announce pregnancies. Many men say they will keep trying with their wives until that son is born. Girls are viewed as temptresses to those poor teen boys. I had lunch with someone this weekend who was glad to put his 12/year-old son in a private school because he felt those 13 & 13 year old girls were too much of a temptation because of their mature outfits. It is all the fault of the girls rather than teach the son that sexuality should be off limits until both parties are mature enough to handle it.

Ugh. My SO's family has this problem. His sisters have both sprogged twice in an attempt to gain the everlovin' BOY the family is so greatly missing. The last pregnancies for both women were very difficult resulting in one preemie, and one case of diabetes, thusly there will be no more children from those women. As the current SO of the only breeding age male in the family, I greatly expect many bingos upon my next visit. Fortunately, roller derby and pregnancy don't mix, and they think I'm a friendly, yet irresponsible, drunk which should disqualify me for any potential parenthood status.

Feh, being a :beer drinker can backfire as many morons think that that bay-bee will "calm you down". Heck, I knew a girl who worked at an abortion clinic where I did volunteer work to try to shield the patients and staff from the antis. She was a 'party animal'. The doc did her first abortion. What does she do? Get pregnant, AGAIN!!! Her excuse was that this bay-bee was going to "straighten her out" and make her a responsible person. Please...

What a trainwreck of a woman! Yep, get your irresponsible, alcoholic, crazy self knocked up. Bring that child into the world just so YOU can straighten yourself out.

HOW SELFISH IS THAT??????

I have heard to many young single moos claim that the bay-bee would straighten them out. Sure...it may last for about three or four months until the novelty of a screaming infant wears off. Then...these young women are running the street again with their partying ways. The girls' parents or society is stuck footing the bill for the offspring who end up being problem children once they get to school. Yes, it IS very selfish! Yet, we childfree are the selfish ones????

...and if they even stick around long enough to raise the kid, there's still the possibility of the kid having things like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, withdrawal symptoms, learning disabilities, predisposition to alcoholism or another substance abuse, behavior problems, codependence...

I had a friend who was a heavy partier & got pregnant by a guy who already left a wife & 3 kids in CA & was ditching child support (another story).

The baby was born nervous, anxious, twitchy, never slept, & cried constantly. The baby died at 8 mos of weak lungs so I heard, but I'm sure he was a crack baby or at least in alcoholic withdrawal. When I found out, I was secretly glad the baby died to save it from the hell it's life would be.

Oh, I think I am old enough now that people figure nothing will "calm" me down. The roller derby thing helps. Only a few more years to 40, actually.