Breeders...why so many now?

The thread "About discipline and children's disorders" got me thinking about my theories that the rise in "children's" disorders, and my firm belief that the root cause is the people who breed these children, as opposed to any environmental factors.
I think most of us who are in our 30's and up remember parents doing, you know, parenting...correcting and disciplining and educating their children; allowing them to roam freely outdoors and experience the direct results of dumassery; teaching them that they live in a society and have to work cooperatively within that; making sure they contribute around the house (chores); and letting them face the consequences of their actions. Perhaps they'd consult previous generations for advice, or even consult and work with their kid's teachers. Maybe they complained, but mostly it just seemed like they sucked it up and did what they needed to do to make us the relatively productive people we are today.
Now days it seems like very few people who produce children are willing to do ANY of this work...thusly the term Breeders and the idiotic concept that "it takes a village to raise a child". Television is a babysitter, learning tool and reward; they never correct misbehavior; they give in to their children's demands; bully and harass teachers, police and supervisors who are in a position to dole out consequences for bad actions or inaction; and expect that everyone and their uncle is going to bend over backwards to make their lives easier simply because they created more humans...etc. etc. On top of that they act like they're the very first people in the world to ever do this. You get the picture....

Anyway, my questions are....why the change? Why is it that nearly everyone who spawns becomes (is?) a breeder? What has changed to make this socially acceptable? What happened to all the parents?



(Yes, I know there have been crappy breeders throughout time, it seems to me that there are way more now...but maybe I'm just more aware than I was and it's my perceptions that have changed. Considering the poor quality of humans these people are churning out, I'm pretty sure it's not just me.)

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

its a sense of entitlement, at least thats what i see from the male view, theres a feeling to men, (right or wrong), that women seem to want to be more than equal, in work, home, and children. then they get told having a child is the most important job in the world. so they have a sense of superiority over everyone else. (i dont count the cf or some of the parents just i use women to denote everyone but the exceptions)

parents know and knew it was hard work bringing up children they had to scrimp and save, whereas today a lot of breeders get given everything by the governments. Governments give these people money, houses jobs, because quite frequently they are the only ones to vote. so in essence its a bribe to keep them in power.

which makes a feedback loop into their superiority.this sense of superiority that they know it best, they are better because they have a child, is now deeply engrained into society. and because they feel superior and the government gives them what they want, they act it. which reinforces the sense that they are better..

at least thats my feeling.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I've noticed just as many men have the same sense of entitlement as a lot of women do. They express it differently, is all. A lot of men seem to believe that they are entitled to better pay, lower interest rates on cars, mortgages, and they expect to inherit more from their parents.

On the subject of breeders, there isn't really a difference. They all expect some sort of perks from absolutely EVERYONE! I think there's many factors that go into this. Lets take the media, for example. It's all about baby bump watches, paparrazzi scrambling to take the first picture of some celebrity's baby, etc. And then there's all these "experts" that the sheeple flock to for the latest trends in child rearing. Since common sense flew out the window in favor of political correctness, every child has to be exalted and revered, or else their precious self esteem will suffer.

Breeders are also hell- bent on giving their spawn everything they didn't have, and that mentality will guarantee that their kids will turn out shitty. Modern day children have enormous egos. I guess I would, too, if everyone from teachers to cops were telling me how wonderful I was all the time.

One explanation I've seen that at least makes a modicum of sense, though it doesn't explain everything to my satisfaction, is a combination of the tumult of the 20th century, the rise of the middle class and DUN DUN DUNNNNN the baby boomers.

First, the tumult of the past century - a world wide recession/depression, two world wars, the very real possibility of nuclear warfare/devastation, communism, etc etc. Gotta admit, it was an 'interesting' time, to use that old Chinese curse.

The middle class (as we know it) grew out of the Great Depression and the second World War, the 'Greatest Generation' as it is called. A childhood of lean, a young adulthood of terror and a middle age of plenty.

In an effort to give their children the very things they had lacked themselves as children - security, plenty, happiness, etc - the middle class concentrated on possessions and things, in lieu of heavy, weighted concepts that admittedly, were barbed edges after what had happened. Like a veteren who does not want to talk about the war, even though the lack of knowledge could very well lead another into the exact same situation.

And then there were the boomers. ~ My folks are boomers and I tease them about it.~

Raised with everything they could ever want, in a world that teetered on the edge of nuclear winter, the entire generation was raised with a pronounced 'now, today, this moment' world view, as opposed to 'tomorrow, think ahead, be prepared' that was more common fifty years before.

Then the boomers had children - that would be us: Gen X, Gen Y, whatever trendy name they have come up with now to call the people born in the last 30 odd years of the 20th century. Raised in an increasingly permissive, anything goes for tomorrow we all may die society that focused only on the moment, not on the future and definitely not on the past. Immature, lazy, computer and video game obsessed, sweltering like hot house orchids in the rigors of the 'real world' we were never prepared for. *snerk*

But back to the boomers. Children were seen as accessories, validation and yet another way to show off one's accomplishments and one-up the Joneses. When the child cried, the spoiled boomer remembered being punished as a child and 'knew' deep in their spoiled heart of hearts that it was 'wrong' and so did nothing. When the child failed at anything, the boomer remembered the embarrassment of not winning that spelling bee in the second grade and knew it was 'wrong' that their pwecious ever have to go through such a thing and decided that 'everyone wins, it's not fair otherwise' and so snotley never had to deal with disappointment.

Eventually the children grew up, and since they grew up in a world with no consequences and often ignorant of the results of 'teh sex', they had children. Scary isn't it? A generation of spoiled children giving birth to the next generation of spoiled children. Never disciplining the little brats because they themselves were never disciplined and never knowing how to cope with their children, because the one thing the spoiled children never learned how to do was cope with life's little inequities.

So, basically, the answer is: we did it to ourselves. Like the Matrix and 1984 and every pseudo 'this is how the world ends, not with a bang, but with a whimper' end of the world novel and movie. All the spoiled crotch dropplings and entitled breeders and ignorant flaming conserva-pricks...we, as a society, did it to ourselves. Cheerful, hey?

~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I know these are sweeping generalizations and some of them quite unfair, but beneath the exaggeration (because I'm in a mood tonight) is the truth. Aliens didn't make us do it. We did it to ourselves and we have no one else to blame.

My mom was not terribly consistent. The way she was raised seemed to favor impulsive action based on the feelings of the moment instead of reasoned thought about the future consequences of said actions.

Punishment, reward, disappointment, effort, delayed gratification, and all the other things that should make systematic sense when you're a kid really didn't. The boundaries were ill-defined based on how she was feeling at the moment. She'd make promises to do things that she didn't keep. She'd impulsively do grandiose things that jeopardized us. I'd get nary a peep out of her for some pretty bad behaviors, but some of the smallest things I did (like directly question her) would result in silent treatment and guilt trips and strong emotional punishment. I didn't have curfews or any other limits placed on my freedom. I was given too much "trust" and flexibility. She treated me like her best friend -- the kind of best friend you're occasionally not on speaking terms with in a passive-aggressive way.

Essentially, I grew up without a sense of what normal people's boundaries and expectations are like. All the ways I learned to deal with my mother were self-sabotage in the real world.

That's all I wanted to add to your portrait of Gen X/Y.

my dad was a strong person, he was my hero, but she was very ill for most of my life, my mum was strong. plus my grannies were all tough as nails women.

everyone knows about terrible 2 tantrums, well i was at my grandma's she had put on a big pan of water to do some potatoes, she put ice cold water in with some salt.. and was preparing them.

then she saw my eyes go my face turn up in a tantrum.. and she said to mum and me, she remembered how my brother was, and she wasnt going to have that then she grabbed the pan of water (which was still cold) ans she poured it all over me.

the shock stopped me from every having tantrums again. tough women in my family the women were the ones really in charge, the men they went out and provided, in my entier family the women were the bosses over the men. and some of them were strong, no one crossed the grannies. (this was the same person who said if the germans invaded, she would find a place for her kids and put them safe, then go out killing nazi's.. and she would have done. a 4 foot 7 woman, doing it. tough... ) but thats the point women today are not tough, they get everything handed to them, they never had to suffer, they never had to survive. and so the kids have a sense of entitlement, which is passed down to the next gen and so on.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I agree with you merc. Women today are pandered-to, wimped up, weaklings who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and have the emotional strength of a 5 year old girl. My grannies were the same way as yours.

I remember the day my dad's mother stood in her kitchen with me and my same-aged cousin (her daughter's daughter). She was brandishing a cast iron frying pan, waiving it and said to us, "Girls, any man ever hits you, you take one of these to his head while he sleeps."

Talk about tough grannies... my great-gran was in the Partisans during WW2, and the natzis caught her once. Theyn were going to shoot her in the morning, but she sneak out of the loo window.
She's got a medal for valour in the war.
Just an old family story...

wow a world of typos... apologies.

"I agree with you merc. Women today are pandered-to, wimped up, weaklings who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and have the emotional strength of a 5 year old girl. My grannies were the same way as yours."
Uhhhh....Feel free to speak for yourselves on that one, I know I could comfortably fight my way out of even the dampest of paper bags without becoming an emotional wreck....as well as about 95% of the women I know.
Some of our grandmothers were tough in ways that we aren't now, correct. Some weren't. But you know what? This thread isn't about how women are weak, hot house flowers who need a constant supply of diamonds and manicures to survive...so please, stop with that already.

This thread is about discussing the reasons why it seems as though many parents today refuse to do the job of parenting. PARENTS! BOTH GENDERS! PLURAL! If you wanna go on about how much women these days can't do nothing but spend a man's hard earned money, feel free to start another thread.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

i was jsut saying a lot of the problems is that there are no Strong female role models, of today, or maybe not a lot. yes women need men, and men need women role models.

but there is an idea that is pervasive that women are the best ones to teach children everything. its wrong, but its there.

theres a difference between strong confident women of the past and the women of today. same with men.

there are no really strong familial links now, most of the 1940's generation has died out, the 60 generation because they never experienced a lot of things they are not as tough this goes for both sexes.. so each generation from then on became less able to cope with the realities of the world. that people do die, that there are horrific events happen. it prostrates them. and then to shelter their children they bubblewrap the world. and they bring the next generation in who are even less able to cope with the horrors of the world.

too much protection gives a sense of disassociation with reality or nature red in tooth and claw. and thats whats happening.. no strong role models, grannies or aunts or cousins, they have all fallen for the we are better because of this. and our children will save the world. so long as we can protect them.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I agree that it is society as a whole that has failed in the parenting department, but that's society...not any specific gender. Blaming women for not being strong enough role models is just as wrong as blaming men for being a bunch of mouth breathers who want to stick their dicks in as many holes as possible. It's not specific genders, but society as a whole that has failed.

As far as I can tell, there are no strong intelligent human role models, look at our mainstream culture and one only sees the glorification of stupidity and sameness. I don't know where you get the idea that there are no strong female role models, we've got a chick running for President here and our Secretary of State is one as well (not like I admire her, but some do I'm sure, she is scary smart). Most people I know who were raised in a single parent home were raised by their mothers or grandmothers, and have nothing but admiration for the work they've done. In fact, thinking about it, most people I know who were raised by both parents still admire their mothers. Now these ladies aren't in the news, so most don't know about them, but that doesn't discredit their importance.

We are disassociated from nature, and I believe in general that's a good thing. We don't have to fight badgers for food, nor do we have to figure out how to survive in -40 degree temps without the modern comforts of central heat, insulation and polar fleece. I doubt this is the fault of women only, nor do I believe it alone is the reason for the rise in breederism.

We are also disassociated from our extended families, but again that's a societal thing and not a woman only thing. It's a lot easier now to get away from them, and so we move away to where we don't have to deal with their b.s. 24-7.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I agree with you merc. Women today are
> pandered-to, wimped up, weaklings who couldn't
> fight their way out of a wet paper bag and have
> the emotional strength of a 5 year old girl. My
> grannies were the same way as yours."
> Uhhhh....Feel free to speak for yourselves on that
> one, I know I could comfortably fight my way out
> of even the dampest of paper bags without becoming
> an emotional wreck....as well as about 95% of the
> women I know.
> Some of our grandmothers were tough in ways that
> we aren't now, correct. Some weren't. But you
> know what? This thread isn't about how women are
> weak, hot house flowers who need a constant supply
> of diamonds and manicures to survive...so please,
> stop with that already.
>
> This thread is about discussing the reasons why it
> seems as though many parents today refuse to do
> the job of parenting. PARENTS! BOTH GENDERS!
> PLURAL! If you wanna go on about how much women
> these days can't do nothing but spend a man's hard
> earned money, feel free to start another thread.

Get a grip! What is it to you what is posted on this thread?

i mean strong as in not out for the fast buck. we had maggie thatcher and she was more male than most men, the queen is the queen she isnt really a woman she is just the queen.

i only put what i saw from the viewpoint of my gender. i know a lot fo male role models are footballers or sport stars.. no really strong people

i did say " was jsut saying a lot of the problems is that there are no Strong female role models, of today, or maybe not a lot. yes women need men, and men need women role models." notice or maybe not a lot. and the dissasociation from nature is the fact that some children dont know where food comes from apart from the supermarket. they see this and they dont realise food has to be grown, and so on.. even extinction of animals, its too distant a part of those peoples lives.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

WTF? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Get a grip! What is it to you what is posted on
> this thread?
Um. I started the thread with a very specific discussion in mind. As a result, I believe I have the authority to suggest that when people stop discussing the actual topic, they start their own threads. Duh.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i did say " was jsut saying a lot of the problems
> is that there are no Strong female role models, of
> today, or maybe not a lot. yes women need men, and
> men need women role models." notice or maybe not a
> lot. and the dissasociation from nature is the
> fact that some children dont know where food comes
> from apart from the supermarket. they see this
> and they dont realise food has to be grown, and so
> on.. even extinction of animals, its too distant
> a part of those peoples lives.

Well, again I'll just remind you that there aren't really any strong HUMAN role models in the popular culture.

It's entirely possible for a man OR a woman to teach their children where food comes from, but more importantly, that's the PARENTS job. When parents abdicate their responsibility and become mere breeders, there must be a cause to that beyond "women are weak" and "no one listens to men".

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTF? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Get a grip! What is it to you what is posted on
> > this thread?
> Um. I started the thread with a very specific
> discussion in mind. As a result, I believe I have
> the authority to suggest that when people stop
> discussing the actual topic, they start their own
> threads. Duh.

:bawl...

Live and let live. OK?

yes, thats what i mean, parents have in a lot of cases given up the role model role.. for sport stars for inappropriate people and let them bring children up. which teaches them the wrong message.

like spears, she was a role model to many young girls in particular, and now look at the self destruction. if she could be used as a cautionary tale. then ok.

its when parents in their 30's use such people, to show children how to be humans. thats when you get the big problems.

the rappers phenomena, in the UK we have had an explosion of gangs and rapper wanna be's since the idealogy of rapping came to the fore front. people who say hatred, who show and use guns, and have millions of pounds/ dollars. they are not good role models, but a lot of parents jsut see the money , same with footballers, same with sport stars.. they only teach acquisitions rather than the true nature of life. THAT IS NOT TO SAY some are good and decent and make good role models.

yes they could.. but they dont some dont know themselves. i know where my food comes from i butchered some in my past, but thats the point, they never had role models, so how can kids of today have role models when the majority of the people are just as useless.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Back to the topic: Feh, you bring up the disassociation with nature. It's cool I guess that we don't have to compete with badgers for food. But I think that this is also the reason for the "rise in breederism" coupled with the increased focus on acquiring material possessions. It's a focus on one's self to breed (what can one create without really trying too hard or making too much of an effort) but not too much focus because humans don't want to focus on the idea that the individual is ultimately alone is dealing with death. Breeding is a distraction from the "wheel of life" (a Buddhist idea that makes sense to me.)

But a relationship with nature could probably help humans make meaning in their lives and help them face their mortality. I think people have to make meaning not try to find it. But it's hard to "make" it so people try to find their purpose by having children. An allusion that they will go on in this world ...

"Yeah, that's what people do, they have children." With this idea they feel they are a part of something.

i see it as being in tune with life, not just human life but animal and plant life. the idea that people dont need to think about where food comes from, how it gets there. and as nour says the focus on acquistions. they dont see the cost of their life or the child, they expect the world to solve that problem.

they dont see the web of life, they just see i need i want, they think that they live in an immaculate world, that revolves around them. this idea of superiority is the reason why there are so many breeders.

the dont see where they are in life. and how life is. if they knew what it took to make those nappies, the food they eat and everything else. then maybe there wouldnt be the breederism there is. at least thats my thought.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTF? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Get a grip! What is it to you what is posted on
> > this thread?
> Um. I started the thread with a very specific
> discussion in mind. As a result, I believe I have
> the authority to suggest that when people stop
> discussing the actual topic, they start their own
> threads. Duh.

You stating you have authority makes you sound like a know-it-all because someone did not post to your specifications.

YES! Very good point. I was thinking the same thing. Being raised Pagan, we were in touch with nature every single day and learned how human interaction has to be such so as not to disrupt the balance. Unfortunately, that's a long forgotten concept for some. Breeders especially.

Nour Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back to the topic: Feh, you bring up the
> disassociation with nature. It's cool I guess that
> we don't have to compete with badgers for food.
> But I think that this is also the reason for the
> "rise in breederism" coupled with the increased
> focus on acquiring material possessions. It's a
> focus on one's self to breed (what can one create
> without really trying too hard or making too much
> of an effort) but not too much focus because
> humans don't want to focus on the idea that the
> individual is ultimately alone is dealing with
> death. Breeding is a distraction from the "wheel
> of life" (a Buddhist idea that makes sense to me.)
>
>
> But a relationship with nature could probably help
> humans make meaning in their lives and help them
> face their mortality. I think people have to make
> meaning not try to find it. But it's hard to
> "make" it so people try to find their purpose by
> having children. An allusion that they will go on
> in this world ...

actually, i said that they are divorced from nature, "too much protection gives a sense of disassociation with reality or nature red in tooth and claw" i quote me on page 2. its s small point, but from what i read feh was actually disagreeing with me.

fehs comment "We are disassociated from nature, and I believe in general that's a good thing"

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

In my opinion, and I don't mean to drift off-topic here - god forbid, but disassociating yourself with nature causes a plethora of serious issues for the animal kingdom.

No, you don't want to have to fight badgers for food or run from charging elephants in the streets, but a healthy, thorough understanding of nature and how everything intertwines is very important. I don't think kids today learn this concept.