The former CEO of Amex wants to do away with the Dept. of Education.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903639404576516724218259688.html?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs%3Darticle

I wonder what parents would think of that? Poor Harvey is just so sick of paying taxes. :Violin

I am sick of paying taxes too. I am sick of hearing about someone who did not work a day (and thus have taxes removed from their pay) gets 5-10K in tax refunds for having too many babies. I am sick of having them skim 5 digits off of my checks all year then hit me up for even more on April 15.

I think flat tax may have something to it; for those who think corporations will "take all their jobs overseas" the corporations are not only not paying, they too are getting refunds...and their jobs are still going overseas! Engineering and manufacturing jobs are becoming more scarce because India pays less.

Flat tax will remedy this...and if you don't earn you don't pay. But you don't get bonuses in the form of refunds, either.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

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navi8orgirl
I am sick of paying taxes too. I am sick of hearing about someone who did not work a day (and thus have taxes removed from their pay) gets 5-10K in tax refunds for having too many babies. I am sick of having them skim 5 digits off of my checks all year then hit me up for even more on April 15.

I think flat tax may have something to it; for those who think corporations will "take all their jobs overseas" the corporations are not only not paying, they too are getting refunds...and their jobs are still going overseas! Engineering and manufacturing jobs are becoming more scarce because India pays less.

Flat tax will remedy this...and if you don't earn you don't pay. But you don't get bonuses in the form of refunds, either.

I can't believe that people are stupid enough to keep falling for the "but if we tax the rich, the rich people will close their businesses and take them overseas!"

Have these people ever called a customer service line from a major corporation? Do they not realize that India is picking up the phone and that China is making the product? It flummoxes me.

Then again, these are the same people who make $35,000/year and think that by "working hard" they can be millionaires.

If I don't have a shitsack, why the HELL would I have to pay a goddamned, motherfucking, shitty, asshloean skule tax?

I HATE WELFARE TRASH!!

Let the "tax refunds" go towards school taxes. They are paying for the services they use.

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

It works like this, whether or not you have kids, unless you want to live in a retirement village or a shithole neighborhood.

Taxes go to schools which make them better schools, and that in turn raises property values in your neighborhood, which in turn creates a nicer neighborhood and when you are ready to sell, you get more $$ because you live in a desirable area.

This is not rocket science people.

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surfinbird

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navi8orgirl
I am sick of paying taxes too. I am sick of hearing about someone who did not work a day (and thus have taxes removed from their pay) gets 5-10K in tax refunds for having too many babies. I am sick of having them skim 5 digits off of my checks all year then hit me up for even more on April 15.

I think flat tax may have something to it; for those who think corporations will "take all their jobs overseas" the corporations are not only not paying, they too are getting refunds...and their jobs are still going overseas! Engineering and manufacturing jobs are becoming more scarce because India pays less.

Flat tax will remedy this...and if you don't earn you don't pay. But you don't get bonuses in the form of refunds, either.

I can't believe that people are stupid enough to keep falling for the "but if we tax the rich, the rich people will close their businesses and take them overseas!"

Have these people ever called a customer service line from a major corporation? Do they not realize that India is picking up the phone and that China is making the product? It flummoxes me.

Then again, these are the same people who make $35,000/year and think that by "working hard" they can be millionaires.

You have to develop a schtick or scam to get rich. Working hard only guarantees more work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

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cew
It works like this, whether or not you have kids, unless you want to live in a retirement village or a shithole neighborhood.

Taxes go to schools which make them better schools, and that in turn raises property values in your neighborhood, which in turn creates a nicer neighborhood and when you are ready to sell, you get more $$ because you live in a desirable area.

This is not rocket science people.

Oh, really?

Have you tried to buy a house lately? People aren't fretting so much about top quality schools anymore, they are fretting about buying a home that they can afford. I can't even believe I am saying this - people aren't even moving real estate right now.

The top quality school districts where I live boast taxes of $15,000/year plus.

I live in a beautiful suburban neighborhood that's a few miles from the beach, and the schools here are fair at best, even though our taxes are on the higher side, around $10,000.

There are plenty of very nice neighborhoods that have schools that aren't top quality.

You make it sound like a neighborhood is an absolute GHETTO if it doesn't have an award winning public school. eyes2

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navi8orgirl

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surfinbird

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navi8orgirl
I am sick of paying taxes too. I am sick of hearing about someone who did not work a day (and thus have taxes removed from their pay) gets 5-10K in tax refunds for having too many babies. I am sick of having them skim 5 digits off of my checks all year then hit me up for even more on April 15.

I think flat tax may have something to it; for those who think corporations will "take all their jobs overseas" the corporations are not only not paying, they too are getting refunds...and their jobs are still going overseas! Engineering and manufacturing jobs are becoming more scarce because India pays less.

Flat tax will remedy this...and if you don't earn you don't pay. But you don't get bonuses in the form of refunds, either.

I can't believe that people are stupid enough to keep falling for the "but if we tax the rich, the rich people will close their businesses and take them overseas!"

Have these people ever called a customer service line from a major corporation? Do they not realize that India is picking up the phone and that China is making the product? It flummoxes me.

Then again, these are the same people who make $35,000/year and think that by "working hard" they can be millionaires.

You have to develop a schtick or scam to get rich. Working hard only guarantees more work.

We need to sell a video from the other thread - you know the one of Snark getting spanked. We'll be zillionaires!

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“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

You make it sound like a neighborhood is an absolute GHETTO if it doesn't have an award winning public school

I implied no such thing. I own a condo in a huge suburb of a major city. Said suburb is large enough that it has its issues w/gangs, crime, etc, but there are parts of this town that are nice and the schools are decent but not award winning. Sure, I could have bought in a less desirable neighborhood and probably pay lower property taxes, but I prefer to not hear gun shots, feel safe walking at night or having my car stolen. I'm not saying my neighborhood is crime free, but definitely less than the seedier parts of town.

Also, and I fully expect to be flamed for this, even though I don't have kids, never wanted them, I accept that they are part of our society. I would prefer them to be educated and have a future so that they don't make our society worse than it already is. Just my opinion. Oh, and my mother bitched that she had to pay taxes for education after we were out of school and working so it's not just the CF who are against it.

Like all other government "departments", The Department of Education has become a political cash cow with misdirected funding as well. I don't begrudge paying education related taxes, but I'd like to know the money is going where it's supposed to go. As it is now, teachers are having to buy supplies out of their own pockets, many schools can't assign homework because there aren't enough textbooks to go around, and most public schools hold more fund raisers throughout the year than the Christian Childrens' Fund does. WHERE is all of this education tax money going if the public schools are in such financial trouble?

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

NO flaming from me either, as I am with Kim. Where is my money going? Down in these parts a state of the art football stadium is ten times more important than a state of the art physics lab. Only a fraction of football players in college get drafted by the NFL so it is a waste IMO.

Having good schools these days is no guarantee of putting out half assed intelligent kids. I don't mind paying my share if I was getting my money's worth. I am not.

And sadly, the ghetto-fab charter school they have next to my neighborhood has not driven condo prices out of the half million dollar range so I am still renting. Apparently they don't affect housing that badly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

Quote
navi8orgirl
NO flaming from me either, as I am with Kim. Where is my money going? Down in these parts a state of the art football stadium is ten times more important than a state of the art physics lab. Only a fraction of football players in college get drafted by the NFL so it is a waste IMO.

Having good schools these days is no guarantee of putting out half assed intelligent kids. I don't mind paying my share if I was getting my money's worth. I am not.

And sadly, the ghetto-fab charter school they have next to my neighborhood has not driven condo prices out of the half million dollar range so I am still renting. Apparently they don't affect housing that badly.

THIS is one of the most worrisome aspects of the whole thing. When an external detriment, such as a ghetto school, no longer affect property values it's because it has become "typical for the area" and not thought to adversely affect market values of real estate. I saw this gradual trend during my ten years in the real estate appraisal business. In the beginning,(mid 90's) a shithole school or other thing considered "negative" like a junk yard close by, boarded up-vacant buildings, and gang related crime had a HUGE impact on property values in the vicinity and could be proved out by the decline of sales prices over a recent period of time. However, towards the end of my career in the real estate business, factors like this no longer seemed to have a negative effect on home values.

At one point the lenders REQUIRED these observations be mentioned, but later on we would get HUD memos declaring that anything 'gang" or drug related involving crime, crime stats in the area, ANYTHING even remotely considered a racial or "low income" issue such as ghetto schools or section 8 housing could NOT be addressed at all. In fact, they gave us an entire new list of verbiage-language to use such as, "The subject property is located in a diverse area", instead of, :There appears to be a lot of low-income renters and illegals moving into the area" and "The area appears to be undergoing gentrification", instead of "There are properties in the area that are in varying stages of disrepair", etc.........

I felt like I was committing fraud to not report EXACTLY what I saw and this was especially true when the buyers were NOT from the area. So, I made up for it with PICTURES included in my appraisals. I was often asked to NOT include many pictures after I had emailed the appraisals by the real estate agents AND the lenders. I told them it was on THEM to remove them because I felt a sense of obligation for the buyer to give him a fair representation of what he was moving into!

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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navi8orgirl
NO flaming from me either, as I am with Kim. Where is my money going? Down in these parts a state of the art football stadium is ten times more important than a state of the art physics lab. Only a fraction of football players in college get drafted by the NFL so it is a waste IMO.

That is where most of the problems lie, schools not putting academics at the top of the list. I've seen schools, both public and private, that have well funded sports programs, yet don't have enough books to go around. Something is wrong here.

Most schools promote a culture where being smart and earning top grades puts students at the bottom of the heap instead of the top. It has been that way for a long time and needs to change.

JD

Most schools are just little factories of conformity, teaching kids how to submit to authority and become good cogs in an industrial machine, cubicle, or service job. Our educational system is so horribly broken that privatization might be the only fix... I personally prefer alternatives like homeschooling, montessori schools or Waldorf schools, but these are all super-expensive... I also personally think that schooling costs should be entirely paid for by parents. I know, crazy idea, right?! Maybe the first kid could be free, but the second should cost you, and then the third costs more, etc.

My folks were very insistent that myself and my siblings get a good education, so we went to expensive, private, all-girls schools (at least my sisters did, I rebelled halfway through high school and chose to go to the public school). So many families get hit twice—you pay the taxes, but the schools are still so crappy that you have to fork over thousands for private school.

I agree with the out-of-pocket idea.

The parents would have more of an interest in their children's education, and private schools can kick a kid the fuck out, if they become too much of a behaviour problem. Then, the parents are stuck with homeschooling the kid. So, either way, the parent ends up being completely responsible for the kid's education, regardless. You bet your ass that they'd start disciplining the kid, because they'd be dead set against wasting their money, or having to take the extra time to homeschool.

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essuredly
Most schools are just little factories of conformity, teaching kids how to submit to authority and become good cogs in an industrial machine, cubicle, or service job. Our educational system is so horribly broken that privatization might be the only fix... I personally prefer alternatives like homeschooling, montessori schools or Waldorf schools, but these are all super-expensive... I also personally think that schooling costs should be entirely paid for by parents. I know, crazy idea, right?! Maybe the first kid could be free, but the second should cost you, and then the third costs more, etc.

My folks were very insistent that myself and my siblings get a good education, so we went to expensive, private, all-girls schools (at least my sisters did, I rebelled halfway through high school and chose to go to the public school). So many families get hit twice—you pay the taxes, but the schools are still so crappy that you have to fork over thousands for private school.

The wave of the future:

http://ccsdde.net/

_______________________________________________
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

The schools don't think that building state of the art sports arenas are a waste, the NCAA pulls down MILLION$ in ticket sales and sales of clothing and gear with NCAA teams on it - and the beauty of it is that they don't have to pay the players! The NCAA is a giant leech on academia - a Peewee version of the NFL, just another business like any other professional sport with the exception that it's legal to exploit students for their labor. The academic programs at big schools with popular sports teams pay the price. I am not sure why anyone would go to college at a football school.

High schools are catching onto the money game. Follow the cash!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2004-10-05-spending-cover_x.htm

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=13061712

http://www.wtva.com/news/local/story/High-school-football-finances/au11Kw0-G0Sw8DSjn03oMw.cspx

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kidlesskim

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navi8orgirl
NO flaming from me either, as I am with Kim. Where is my money going? Down in these parts a state of the art football stadium is ten times more important than a state of the art physics lab. Only a fraction of football players in college get drafted by the NFL so it is a waste IMO.

Having good schools these days is no guarantee of putting out half assed intelligent kids. I don't mind paying my share if I was getting my money's worth. I am not.

And sadly, the ghetto-fab charter school they have next to my neighborhood has not driven condo prices out of the half million dollar range so I am still renting. Apparently they don't affect housing that badly.

THIS is one of the most worrisome aspects of the whole thing. When an external detriment, such as a ghetto school, no longer affect property values it's because it has become "typical for the area" and not thought to adversely affect market values of real estate. I saw this gradual trend during my ten years in the real estate appraisal business. In the beginning,(mid 90's) a shithole school or other thing considered "negative" like a junk yard close by, boarded up-vacant buildings, and gang related crime had a HUGE impact on property values in the vicinity and could be proved out by the decline of sales prices over a recent period of time. However, towards the end of my career in the real estate business, factors like this no longer seemed to have a negative effect on home values.

At one point the lenders REQUIRED these observations be mentioned, but later on we would get HUD memos declaring that anything 'gang" or drug related involving crime, crime stats in the area, ANYTHING even remotely considered a racial or "low income" issue such as ghetto schools or section 8 housing could NOT be addressed at all. In fact, they gave us an entire new list of verbiage-language to use such as, "The subject property is located in a diverse area", instead of, :There appears to be a lot of low-income renters and illegals moving into the area" and "The area appears to be undergoing gentrification", instead of "There are properties in the area that are in varying stages of disrepair", etc.........

I felt like I was committing fraud to not report EXACTLY what I saw and this was especially true when the buyers were NOT from the area. So, I made up for it with PICTURES included in my appraisals. I was often asked to NOT include many pictures after I had emailed the appraisals by the real estate agents AND the lenders. I told them it was on THEM to remove them because I felt a sense of obligation for the buyer to give him a fair representation of what he was moving into!

The housing prices where I live are very high - it's actually ridiculous. And I would NEVER send my kids to the public school here if I had any. Why? Because they have an amazing sports program but the academics suck. You can go one town over where the housing prices are a little lower and it's the exact same bullshit. All of the tax money here goes to sports and paying our superintendents $200,000+ salaries, and then the salaries of their 5 assistants. The teachers here are amongst the best paid in the country, and all they do is complain - why? They live in the almost-unable-to-afford areas so that their kids can go to the better public schools on Long Island, so they always want more money. eyes2 Long Island teachers are an insult to the teaching profession.

I don't know if this dynamic is played out in other suburban areas, but it stinks here. We have some top notch districts, but you have to have a Wall Street or an anesthesiologist's salary to even think about being able to pay the taxes there. Everybody else gets a mediocre school where sports are king and academics takes a backburner to Friday Night Lights. There is always to choice of private school, but most tuition runs you the cost of a college education.

Even the schools in our low SES areas are worlds above NYC schools. The taxes in those areas are super low, but the money always gets mismanaged towards administration, so much so that the Department of Education had to come in and re-structure two schools. It was such a shame. So, not only are these kids growing up in a low SES area, the educators who are supposed to be helping them get a better life are fucking them up the ass with a red hot poker.

So, I am paying these school taxes but the neighborhood was nice to begin with and will always be nice because the breeders really don't care if the school is mediocre or not. They'll just throw money at Kaplan and tutors if Shitley needs extra help, but chances are the kids are going to be more interested in kickline and lacrosse, anyway.

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law1204
The schools don't think that building state of the art sports arenas are a waste, the NCAA pulls down MILLION$ in ticket sales and sales of clothing and gear with NCAA teams on it - and the beauty of it is that they don't have to pay the players! The NCAA is a giant leech on academia - a Peewee version of the NFL, just another business like any other professional sport with the exception that it's legal to exploit students for their labor. The academic programs at big schools with popular sports teams pay the price. I am not sure why anyone would go to college at a football school.

High schools are catching onto the money game. Follow the cash!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2004-10-05-spending-cover_x.htm

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=13061712

http://www.wtva.com/news/local/story/High-school-football-finances/au11Kw0-G0Sw8DSjn03oMw.cspx

YUP!

We have Hofstra University here, and I attempted to take some classes there and it was a total, overpriced shithole. They abandoned their football program for their NCAA Div I Lacrosse program, which is HUGE. The entire school revolves around lacrosse.

The professors do make some attempt at teaching, but the students who are attracted to a D1 school are athletes, not academics. Their brains are on the playing field, and I say this as someone who played college sports. However, back in the stone ages, you actually had to have a decent GPA to play sports, now all you have to do keep breathing and try not to get arrested for sexual assault.

I was completely shocked at the lack of intelligence of the students at Hofstra - and it is a huge university, complete with law and medical schools. down

I am hoping that online education catches on even more in the future. Hopefully this will finally snap the connection between institutions of learning and institutions of gladiating, which shouldn't in any way be related. Any further education I choose to do will likely be at an online college with no sports program whatsoever.

Now some pahrunts are having their high school students go to school online. up No doubt this format isn't for everyone but nothing but good can come of it. No school buses, no huge waste of space buildings with enormous overpriced sports arenas, no more school shootings, no hallway bullying, fewer teens getting knocked up.

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law1204
I am hoping that online education catches on even more in the future. Hopefully this will finally snap the connection between institutions of learning and institutions of gladiating, which shouldn't in any way be related. Any further education I choose to do will likely be at an online college with no sports program whatsoever.

Now some pahrunts are having their high school students go to school online. up No doubt this format isn't for everyone but nothing but good can come of it. No school buses, no huge waste of space buildings with enormous overpriced sports arenas, no more school shootings, no hallway bullying, fewer teens getting knocked up.

Nothing but up up up....

School buses, for some reason, don't have to be environmentally friendly and I am tired of them belching diesel.

Online education will force kids to become self-directed learners. BUT, it will require non-lazy parents who monitor their children's learning. Maybe it will be the start of a change away from the school as babysitter as well.

I am not sure why anyone would go to college at a football school.

Because the parties were epic.

In all honestly, I went to a "football" school that is also considered a "party" school, and I was hardly sucked into the date rape drama of the scene. From what I understand, the money that the big football team pulls in with ticket sales (which are totally out of hand, even for shitty games) pays for ALL of the other sports programs combined. And the coach of said team has put a lot of his own money into the libraries. But we're talking about MY school (integrity is a big part of the football program), not some of these other party/football schools with rockhead jocks.

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law1204
The schools don't think that building state of the art sports arenas are a waste, the NCAA pulls down MILLION$ in ticket sales and sales of clothing and gear with NCAA teams on it - and the beauty of it is that they don't have to pay the players!

Boo fucking hoo. These football "students" often don't graduate at the major programs, and go to college for FREE! I had to pay 100% of my own college expense. I don't begrudge them at all, but they should be thanking their lucky stars to have such a tremendous opportunity on two fronts: 1. If they go to the pros (which is unlikely) the minimum NFL salary is something like $400+K per year, well within the top 1% of income earners in the US. 2. If they don't go pro, they get an opportunity at a FREE bachelors degree! FREE!

If anybody wants to voluntarily give these guys some cash, feel free... but please leave us nerds alone. I have already paid tens of thousands in college tuition and the current students are paying more. The rest of us who go to college for, you know, the learning aspect of it are also the ones who foot the tuition bills.

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law1204
I am hoping that online education catches on even more in the future. Hopefully this will finally snap the connection between institutions of learning and institutions of gladiating, which shouldn't in any way be related. Any further education I choose to do will likely be at an online college with no sports program whatsoever.

Now some pahrunts are having their high school students go to school online. up No doubt this format isn't for everyone but nothing but good can come of it. No school buses, no huge waste of space buildings with enormous overpriced sports arenas, no more school shootings, no hallway bullying, fewer teens getting knocked up.

So do I. If I had the option, I would have wanted to go to an online high school. I'm just thinking of all the crap I dealt with in high school that I wouldn't have had to deal with if I could have studied on my own at home. High school for me was nothing more than 4 years of verbal, physical, and sexual harassment that I couldn't wait to get away from.

If I do take any additional college course or pursue another degree, which is unlikely for me at my age(43), I would probably do the online route there too.

JD