Pronatalist walking womb bullshit in neuroscience:mad2 class

So, watching my lecture this evening and everything is going smoothly until she starts talking about the development of the central nervous system. The prof starts talking about how the neural tube is formed at 22 days and that folic acid is important for development. Fair play. THEN she starts spewing shit about how ALL women should take folic acid if they are of child bearing years ESPECIALLY if they are on the birth control pill (it depletes folic acid), because PREGNANCIES JUST HAPPEN!!! FUCK YOU BITCH! If I were physically at the lecture I would have stood up, told her that I'm offended, point out to her that I'm Childfree and not a walking womb! If I were on the birth control pill, it's because I. DON'T. WANT. TO. BE. PREGNANT! Honestly, what do you think would happen if I were to get pregnant, you stupid bitch? *sigh* What has academia come to? Thanks for reading my rant.

Wow. She's either unaware of or forgot about the fact that:

1. Not everyone has sex. (Me)

2. Not everyone has penile-vaginal sex.

3. Not everyone has sex with men.

4. The morning after pill and abortion exist and are legal.

5. Suicide is always an option as a last resort.

Not only an insult to women who know what they want out of life (i.e. not going to mindlessly "fall" pregnant), but a full-on professional . Sorry you had to deal with that nonsense while trying to get an education.

*sigh*

I had a similar experience in my pathophysiology class about a year ago. The only difference was that it was the students telling these "life" stories about how pregnancy can just happen, even if you don't want kids.

I'm starting to think that the universities are starting to cater to the breeder crowded since they have lowered their academic qualities.

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empresskitty
*sigh*

I had a similar experience in my pathophysiology class about a year ago. The only difference was that it was the students telling these "life" stories about how pregnancy can just happen, even if you don't want kids.

I'm starting to think that the universities are starting to cater to the breeder crowded since they have lowered their academic qualities.

This is in an advanced university class? Where are all the smart people?!

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empresskitty
*sigh*

I had a similar experience in my pathophysiology class about a year ago. The only difference was that it was the students telling these "life" stories about how pregnancy can just happen, even if you don't want kids.

I'm starting to think that the universities are starting to cater to the breeder crowded since they have lowered their academic qualities.

If pregnancy can 'just happen' then they weren't trying hard enough. It irritates me when people say they don't want kids, yet fail to take adequate measures to prevent it. Then we get stuck hearing about how they 'once thought as we did' once they fall in love with their baking loaf.

Colleges and universities really are lowering their standards. Professors are the last people who should be promoting the asinine idea babies "just happen".

And why do married couples feel compelled to keep an "unexpected surprise" neither of them wants just because they are married couples? Don't announce the pregnasty to anyone and quietly get an abortion. It's not rocket science.

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nightfire

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empresskitty
*sigh*

I had a similar experience in my pathophysiology class about a year ago. The only difference was that it was the students telling these "life" stories about how pregnancy can just happen, even if you don't want kids.

I'm starting to think that the universities are starting to cater to the breeder crowded since they have lowered their academic qualities.

If pregnancy can 'just happen' then they weren't trying hard enough. It irritates me when people say they don't want kids, yet fail to take adequate measures to prevent it. Then we get stuck hearing about how they 'once thought as we did' once they fall in love with their baking loaf.

Ahem. Happened to me, despite contraception AND Plan B AND low fertility. Yeah, it can "just happen," even if you're really careful. It's rare, but it does.

I get kind of sick of this from CF'ers. I've always been *perfect* about contraception. I've never slipped up once, in 8 years (sperm poisoning was due to a manufacturing defect, not user error). Don't act like I'm an idiot because I'm straight, like sex, and have a uterus. I was doing everything I could, and I'm not a fucking moron. I know more about contraception than 99% of the population -- even a lot of CF'ers. I can go toe-to-toe with my friend who works at PP.

I get tired of this bullshit. Chances are, you're not impervious, or at least you weren't born that way. Even sterilization fails sometimes. You could wind up being (dog forbid), or could have been one of those supposed idiots. So don't talk down to me. Because that comment is directed at ME, and every woman who's ever been in my situation (and there are many of them even on this forum).

The part they -- and you -- fail to mention is that you can get an ABORTION. And that's what I did, as soon as humanly possible.

They act like sperm poisoning is an untreatable disease. Like you're just stuck with it. Unless you abort, but they don't talk about that, despite the fact that nearly half the women in the US will abort at some point in their lives, because abortion is for evil murderers according to society.

But I couldn't honestly care any less how I'm seen by idiot breeders, or people who think of women as nothing but baby machines. I control this machine, thanks very much. I have it set to "monthly cleanse," with the option to reset in the event of sperm infection.

I am with Lili. Pregnancies happen, babies don't. Big difference.

If I am thinking to abort, it doesn't matter at all how much folic acid I'll take or not

_______________________

“I was talking about children that have not been properly house-trained. Left to their own impulses and indulged by doting or careless parents almost all children are yahoos. Loud, selfish, cruel, unaffectionate, jealous, perpetually striving for attention, empty-headed, for ever prating or if words fail them simply bawling, their voices grown huge from daily practice: the very worst company in the world. But what I dislike even more than the natural child is the affected child, the hulking oaf of seven or eight that skips heavily about with her hands dangling in front of her -- a little squirrel or bunny-rabbit -- and prattling away in a baby's voice.”


― Patrick O'Brian, The Truelove


lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

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t.
I am with Lili. Pregnancies happen, babies don't. Big difference.

If I am thinking to abort, it doesn't matter at all how much folic acid I'll take or not

Exactly. If anything, they should consider me "pre-abortion" and prescribe iron pills.

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lilin_unite

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nightfire

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empresskitty
*sigh*

I had a similar experience in my pathophysiology class about a year ago. The only difference was that it was the students telling these "life" stories about how pregnancy can just happen, even if you don't want kids.

I'm starting to think that the universities are starting to cater to the breeder crowded since they have lowered their academic qualities.

If pregnancy can 'just happen' then they weren't trying hard enough. It irritates me when people say they don't want kids, yet fail to take adequate measures to prevent it. Then we get stuck hearing about how they 'once thought as we did' once they fall in love with their baking loaf.

Ahem. Happened to me, despite contraception AND Plan B AND low fertility. Yeah, it can "just happen," even if you're really careful. It's rare, but it does.

I get kind of sick of this from CF'ers. I've always been *perfect* about contraception. I've never slipped up once, in 8 years (sperm poisoning was due to a manufacturing defect, not user error). Don't act like I'm an idiot because I'm straight, like sex, and have a uterus. I was doing everything I could, and I'm not a fucking moron. I know more about contraception than 99% of the population -- even a lot of CF'ers. I can go toe-to-toe with my friend who works at PP.

I get tired of this bullshit. Unless you've had all of your reproductive organs remove, you're not impervious. Even sterilization fails sometimes. So don't talk down to me. Because that comment is directed at ME, and every woman who's ever been in my situation (and there are many of them even on this forum).

The part they -- and you -- fail to mention is that you can get an ABORTION. And that's what I did, as soon as humanly possible.

They act like sperm poisoning is an untreatable disease. Like you're just stuck with it. Unless you abort, but they don't talk about that, despite the fact that nearly half the women in the US will abort at some point in their lives, because abortion is for evil murderers according to society.

But I couldn't honestly care any less how I'm seen by idiot breeders, or people who think of women as nothing but baby machines. I control this machine, thanks very much. I have it set to "monthly cleanse," with the option to reset in the event of sperm infection.

I'm not quite sure the comment was aimed at you.
I honestly doubt anyone had known about this prior unless you mentioned it and if you have, sorry but I don't keep up religiously with this board and its users as I used to.
Point is, of course there's always abortion. I do believe Empresskitty and nightfire over here was just referring to the fact that it's a common tendency of people who are on the fence that get knocked up and say fuck it I'll just have the baby and "fall in love with it."
And no one's doubting your ability to keep up with birth control, don't take it personally when it isn't aimed at you. Accidents CAN happen, there's no mistaking that.
This is a childfree board, abortion is always an option here. It shouldn't have to be said.
No need to go off on someone for making a rant clearly aimed towards fencers.
And sorry if this offends you but I don't honestly believe your rant was necessary, and while I do agree with you to some extent, there was no need to spew vitriol at someone probably not asking for it.

“I don’t have pet peeves, I have major, psychotic fucking hatreds.”
— George Carlin

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frenzy
I'm not quite sure the comment was aimed at you.
I honestly doubt anyone had known about this prior unless you mentioned it and if you have, sorry but I don't keep up religiously with this board and its users as I used to.
Point is, of course there's always abortion. I do believe Empresskitty and nightfire over here was just referring to the fact that it's a common tendency of people who are on the fence that get knocked up and say fuck it I'll just have the baby and "fall in love with it."
And no one's doubting your ability to keep up with birth control, don't take it personally when it isn't aimed at you. Accidents CAN happen, there's no mistaking that.
This is a childfree board, abortion is always an option here. It shouldn't have to be said.
No need to go off on someone for making a rant clearly aimed towards fencers.
And sorry if this offends you but I don't honestly believe your rant was necessary, and while I do agree with you to some extent, there was no need to spew vitriol at someone probably not asking for it.

She said if it "just happens," then you aren't trying hard enough. That is literally what she said.

I'm pointing out she is certainly wrong. No contraception carries an effectiveness rate of 100%. None. Not even the sterilization so many of us fight for (and I have since gotten).

Rants are never necessary. However, I think a rant forum is a great place for one.

It's not like I called her names. I told her not to imply that I, and women CF or otherwise with similar stories, are just irresponsible or stupid, which she did.

I get tired of this sort of language from CF'ers who have simply been lucky enough not to buy a bad box of condoms, or have their IUD twist, or have their tubes re-open. It's the same kind of language I hear from anti-choicers.

In a group that spends so much time going after misogynistic anti-choicers for being misogynist, I don't appreciate misogyny from the same group towards those who are simply unlucky.

This is not a case of butthurt. I enjoy the freedom of speech here, and I am as likely to criticize what I'm part of as I am what I'm not. No one has to give a fuck about my feelings, and that bothers me not the slightest.

However, in a group so focused on social commentary, and so inclined towards a strong style, I feel like mine is appropriate and necessary fodder.

I would talk personally with the teacher and told her that it offended me. I also had a class and the male teacher said at one point that pregnancy is unavoidable and all women go through that. I went to him after the lecture and i pointed that out. I said in a polite manner that it offends me because not all women can or want to have children. It was so weird because our university has already 3 papers on the childfree by choice from education and sociology department. That affirmation was so 19th century.

It's true that universities started to cater more to breeders because i noticed the increased number of women with kids in the campus. Student restaurants and cafeterias have kid chairs, they come with few months old baybees in the library reading rooms, they titfeed in the library cafeterias, they have special programmes from uni so they can study and take care of kids at the same time etc. Ok, fine bend to them as usually, but don't start telling me at the lecture that pignancy is unavoidable for fuck sake!

Accidents do happen because no method is 100% reliable but most of them do happen because people are actually careless about it. Those who really take care and have accidents are very few. But these people insist that "it happens" in such an obsessive way, you might think that it's actually 99% of the times.

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blackpearl
Accidents do happen because no method is 100% reliable but most of them do happen because people are actually careless about it. Those who really take care and have accidents are very few. But these people insist that "it happens" in such an obsessive way, you might think that it's actually 99% of the times.

Depends what you mean by "taking care."

You're right -- the overwhelming majority of accidents are the result of poor contraceptive practice.

But a large percentage of those people BELIEVE they're doing it right. It's startling how ignorant most people are about contraception and what's risky and what isn't.

This is why we need some proper goddamn sex ed in this country. If everyone was ACTUALLY doing it right, we could cut unwanted inpignancy by 95%. Being realistic about humans, still, 80% I bet.

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lilin_unite

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frenzy
I'm not quite sure the comment was aimed at you.
I honestly doubt anyone had known about this prior unless you mentioned it and if you have, sorry but I don't keep up religiously with this board and its users as I used to.
Point is, of course there's always abortion. I do believe Empresskitty and nightfire over here was just referring to the fact that it's a common tendency of people who are on the fence that get knocked up and say fuck it I'll just have the baby and "fall in love with it."
And no one's doubting your ability to keep up with birth control, don't take it personally when it isn't aimed at you. Accidents CAN happen, there's no mistaking that.
This is a childfree board, abortion is always an option here. It shouldn't have to be said.
No need to go off on someone for making a rant clearly aimed towards fencers.
And sorry if this offends you but I don't honestly believe your rant was necessary, and while I do agree with you to some extent, there was no need to spew vitriol at someone probably not asking for it.

She said if it "just happens," then you aren't trying hard enough. That is literally what she said.

I'm pointing out she is certainly wrong. No contraception carries an effectiveness rate of 100%. None. Not even the sterilization so many of us fight for (and I have since gotten).

Rants are never necessary. However, I think a rant forum is a great place for one.

It's not like I called her names. I told her not to imply that I, and women CF or otherwise with similar stories, are just irresponsible or stupid, which she did.

I get tired of this sort of language from CF'ers who have simply been lucky enough not to buy a bad box of condoms, or have their IUD twist, or have their tubes re-open. It's the same kind of language I hear from anti-choicers.

In a group that spends so much time going after misogynistic anti-choicers for being misogynist, I don't appreciate misogyny from the same group towards those who are simply unlucky.

This is not a case of butthurt. I enjoy the freedom of speech here, and I am as likely to criticize what I'm part of as I am what I'm not. No one has to give a fuck about my feelings, and that bothers me not the slightest.

However, in a group so focused on social commentary, and so inclined towards a strong style, I feel like mine is appropriate and necessary fodder.

Darlin', all I'm saying is that it wasn't an attack on you, and if you honestly take things that seriously on the internet, there's no need to be here.
And if you're implying I'm anti-choice, them's fightin' words and I don't appreciate it as much as you don't appreciate being called out it seems.
I don't like provoking conflict, but I do like to rant.
And I also don't appreciate rants on other members who really did nothing to you and I don't understand your logic for getting so worked up over it when it CLEARLY was NOT aimed at you in ANY WAY.
Sorry.

“I don’t have pet peeves, I have major, psychotic fucking hatreds.”
— George Carlin

Well, my friend's SIL was pulling the "it just happened" with her 3rd child just to find out it was a forgotten pill. One of my ex-colleagues had a broken condom but didn't do anything about it and it just "let it be" and the third one was bragging how she got drunk and ended in some bushes with a stranger, no protection. My problem is that these people are acting like that "omg it totally happens so shut up!" I know that they believe they are doing it right because my friend's SIL was like... but one forgotten pill cannot be that bad! And again they do realize they've screwed it but don't do anything about it and just "let it be".

Where i live BC is available with a doctor's prescription, condoms are sold in shops and pharmacies and they are also given for free, morning after pill is over the counter, abortions are available, sterilization is available after 30 years old. It doesn't just happen.

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frenzy
Darlin', all I'm saying is that it wasn't an attack on you, and if you honestly take things that seriously on the internet, there's no need to be here.
And if you're implying I'm anti-choice, them's fightin' words and I don't appreciate it as much as you don't appreciate being called out it seems.
I don't like provoking conflict, but I do like to rant.
And I also don't appreciate rants on other members who really did nothing to you and I don't understand your logic for getting so worked up over it when it CLEARLY was NOT aimed at you in ANY WAY.
Sorry.

I'm taking it about as srsly as you are. You're responding, aren't you?

My rant wasn't *about* her. It was *about* her post. Please point me to a personal comment I made about her.

Her post does not say what you are claiming it does. If that is what she meant, that is what she should have said, rather than making a blanket statement that all accidents are a result of incompetence or negligence.

I'm not implying you or her are anti-choice. I'm out-rightly stating that her language is in bed with the same strain of misogyny, which makes it ironic and something any pro-choicer should strive to avoid. I said EXACTLY what I meant.

On second thought, I think you take this much more srsly than I do.

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lilin_unite

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frenzy
Darlin', all I'm saying is that it wasn't an attack on you, and if you honestly take things that seriously on the internet, there's no need to be here.
And if you're implying I'm anti-choice, them's fightin' words and I don't appreciate it as much as you don't appreciate being called out it seems.
I don't like provoking conflict, but I do like to rant.
And I also don't appreciate rants on other members who really did nothing to you and I don't understand your logic for getting so worked up over it when it CLEARLY was NOT aimed at you in ANY WAY.
Sorry.

I'm taking it about as srsly as you are. You're responding, aren't you?

My rant wasn't *about* her. It was *about* her post. Please point me to a personal comment I made about her.

Her post does not say what you are claiming it does. If that is what she meant, that is what she should have said, rather than making a blanket statement that all accidents are a result of incompetence or negligence.

I'm not implying you or her are anti-choice. I'm out-rightly stating that her language is in bed with the same strain of misogyny, which makes it ironic and something any pro-choicer should strive to avoid. I said EXACTLY what I meant.

On second thought, I think you take this much more srsly than I do.

I'm not going to start a fight with you, especially when you feel it necessary to demean me in some way by using "srsly" as if you were a teen below even my age.
You can push this fight all you like, but I see an unnecessary commentary made above, and I know what I saw, it really wasn't right, and I don't appreciate it.
Further it all you want, but honestly, engaging you in back and forth in your attempts to start any sort of argument is not normally how I roll.

The fact you replied when I fully intended to end that conversation with my previous post tells me you're insecure about a few things actually.
You feel the need to have the last word, redeem yourself so that you don't look like a villain with all the flaws in your logic I've pointed out, turn the tables against me, and make a comment to nightfire's post in the first place because for some reason you feel the need to advertise the fact you had an abortion because BC isn't always sniper rifle accurate (which nothing ever is unless it's a robot, and even then there can be mistakes) shows me you may be a little insecure about having that abortion in the first place.
It's no big deal, you're supposedly among friends, why take offense?
Another thing, I truly truly fail to see how nightfire's comment falls into any "strain of misogyny".
It looks as if she's ranting about fencers who get knocked up and keep the baby because oh well.

I'm civil enough to keep my tone polite, because I have no intention of giving a fuck past 3 AM, but there are worse people to pick a fight with and you should learn when to back down before you end up looking like you need to have the end all comment.
The things I pointed out above may seem harsh, as if it's a personal attack, but I've seen this song and dance a few hundred times in the various pits of the internet I've been to and I'm getting just as sick and tired of it as you're getting tired of misogyny, which, I see none of in nightfire's comment.
Keep this going if you wish, I have all night, and if you're really that desperate in continuing your defense, please go right on ahead, but I can't promise a reply.

“I don’t have pet peeves, I have major, psychotic fucking hatreds.”
— George Carlin

So if I'm all those nasty things for replying to posts directed at me, what does that make you for doing the same?

I'm about as insecure about my abortion as I am about being CF. I actually wrote it up pretty and published it shortly after, since it was so different from the boogie man society presents it as.

But of course, reality wouldn't matter to you and your stubborn desire to have a huff. I mean, really. You're flouncing in a forum?

I stuck to the actual words of the post I first responded to. You tried to make up entirely new words that she never said. I think the facts are pretty obviously in my favor. Again, if that's not what she meant, she should have said what she meant.

I think you're the one with the problem. Seriously, who shit in your panties? I never made this personal about anyone. You are not civil in the least, and you're also not a very good psychologist.

P.S. I know you're reading.

lilin- I would suggest that you stop your little tirade right now before a mod decides to "argue" with you. I guarantee that you will not get in the last word if that happens.

~~~~~~~~~~~
I miss my little feather baby.

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drake
lilin- I would suggest that you stop your little tirade right now before a mod decides to "argue" with you. I guarantee that you will not get in the last word if that happens.

Whose tirade? I'm addressing a post at a volume tens of decibels lower than the average post here, and being personally called out in response. The only difference I can think of is that it's aimed at a mindset within the CF, rather than within breeders.

I wasn't aware that critiquing the CF was a ban-able offence. If it is, then smite me O might mod, because I have obviously signed up for the wrong forum.

I don't particularly want any words regardless of order, if that's the case. Fear of introspection turns me off.

When breeders make the comment that sometimes pregnancy just happens, it seems what they are really implying is that sometimes babies just happen. As far as they're concerned they believe that once the fetus is in there there is only one possible outcome.

Techpriestess, is there any forum for redress with this lecturer? Anyway to give her feedback on the content of her lecture and the assumptions she erroneously made?

I agree that, despite best efforts and good knowledge of contraception, pregnancy can occur. It is also true that in the case of the vast majority of unplanned pregnancies, incorrect/inconsistent use of contraceptives (or lack of contraceptives) can be blamed. Also, in countries where abortion is legal and available, pregnancy may not always be prevented, but having a baby can be.

I don't believe that there is actually disagreement on any of these points.

I think when someone expresses the view that unplanned pregnancies are the result of poor planning, there's an unspoken "in the vast majority of cases" behind it. At least, that is how I read it. But I can understand why that lack of qualification would be offensive to someone who has been in the position of being in that small percentage of unlucky people who were using contraceptives and still got pregnant. I think we have two people on this board in that situation.

Nobody has to shut up, but if this particular topic gets too heated it might get moved to the rest room, which lets people who prefer to avoid conflict overlook the thread. My personal preference would be if we continued the discussion politely and abstractly, but board rules don't require it.

I've heard this idea of all womben of chyldbearing age being advised to take folic acid from the medical community. The sheeply lecturer is parroting crap she hears/reads from breederific doctors and medical researchers. I would give her some feedback if possible even though it will probably do no good.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. And lilin_unite, I'm REALLY sorry you had to go through that. Even having a tubal and using Depo as my two birth control choices, I'm still scared shitless of a birth control failure.

I'm going to try and pull her aside, and tell her. I have my exam tomorrow, and (dog forbid) if a question pertaining to women taking folic acid is on there, I'm going to give her a piece of my mind. Canadian universities seem to get mighty nervous when the word "discrimination" is directed at them, and what my prof said was both discrimination against the Childfree and against women. Thanks again everyone.