Have a living will? Forget it if you're pregnant.

Apparently in 35 states, if a woman has a living will that includes a Do Not Resuscitate order, the paper becomes null and void if the woman is pregnant. Not even her agent can challenge it. Hey ladies, you're nothing but an incubator for the state and it's even easier to control you if you're comatose!

http://bakka111.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/autonomy-and-pregnancy/

I'm thinking of asking my husband to smother me in the event this ever happens.

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"[GFG's pregnancy is] kind of like at the stables where that one dumb, ugly-ass mare broke out of her corral one day and got herself screwed by the equally fugly colt that was due to be gelded the same afternoon."- Shiny

We are apparently nothing but broodmares for the most holy loaf. This sickens me on so many levels that I wouldn't even know where to start with my bitchfest.

~~~~~~~~~~~
I miss my little feather baby.

Oh that bites it! I so to god wish all those "Pro Life" bastards could be forced to get pregnant and then get every complication a pregnancy can offer! Including a torn open pelvic floor.



+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

That is really quite horrific. Thank you for posting this. I'd be interested to find the laws here in Australia (I know a few women with DNR orders).

Here's another thread on the topic. I find it absolutely disgusting that a woman's choice isn't allowed to govern her body when she took the time to make her feelings clear.

Damn, I missed that the first time. Feel free to merge threads, mods.

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"[GFG's pregnancy is] kind of like at the stables where that one dumb, ugly-ass mare broke out of her corral one day and got herself screwed by the equally fugly colt that was due to be gelded the same afternoon."- Shiny

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/311-00/625.PDF

In the state of Kentucky

"...If I have been diagnosed as pregnant and that diagnosis is known to my attending
physician, this directive shall have no force or effect during the course of my pregnancy..."



I recently updated my last will and testament as well as my living will for my attorney to review today. The last living will was just a standard print out I had found on some do gooder site that offered free downloads for health care directives, but my attorney suggested I print out one that included all of out state statutes and THIS is what it says! So, on the part where it says you do not WISH treatment to prolong your life, such as when you are in a persistent vegetative state, for example, that is NULL AND VOID if it's determined you are inpig!

***MY**** rights and own fucking DEATH BED wishes won't be allowed and can't be legally honored NOR can my husband or contingent powers of attorneys exercise their LEGAL RIGHT to oversee and make decisions regarding my medical care if I HAPPEN to be incubating a loaf at the time I am rendered brain dead or DESIRE to NOT continue to exist on a ventilator, for what EVER personal reason!!!!! Don't want to be "revived" over and over and over..? TOUGH SHIT if you are inpig. Have your arms and legs ripped off in an accident, paralyzed from the neck down, brain damaged, etc...... and DO NOT want a ventilator and to continue to "live"? You have NO say so in it IF you are roasting a little loaf-pig in your baybee oven. Not that this will happen to me because I am so damned old now and the likelihood of a baking loaf is remote, just the thought of it chaps my ass!:sbx

Is it like this everywhere? My attorney said EVEN IF you leave that part out of the living will, NO DOCTOR will pull the fucking plug OR discontinue treatment without a court order IF the crumpled, lifeless, vegetable has a shitsack in the oven.:smn

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

You are lucky to have living will, friend :/ no such luck around here.

I plan to put money in a special bank account for a possible future travel to Switzerland (it is close) if I happen to be in a state in wich I won't want to live.

Well, one more point on the "preggos are just livestock" account. It's even legally indicated! that's just another reason I won't be breeding. Being nothing but an incubator doesn't sit well with me.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So.. We know that food and water are running out, with overpopulation and all... Yet people keep on poppin' out those babies! I guess they want to have their baby and eat it too...

My top reason is that parenting gives you a free license to be selfish based purely on the fact that you're being selfish for an emanation of your own self. The illusion that what you do to benefit your children benefits them solely is a fallacy. Every parent benefits from the benefits that their children receive. Henceforth, it gives one a license to perpetuate a dog-eat-dog mentality that I perceive to be amoral. Parents say that their children are their greatest loves, what they forget to add is that they are their ONLY loves and only because their children are a reflection of themselves. I prefer to be able to love multiple people and have lasting relationships of many types and possess the essential core value of empathy for all than to restrict myself to an echo chamber of ego-masturbation and self-serving chicanery.

In short: Not parenting makes you a better person.

This is why I will never get married again.

Under no circumstances, will I allow another person to make any health related decisions for me. I know my wishes will not be respected, especially since forced gyn exams are the norm in the US. My BF would never advocate for me, because he actually respects doctors. I do not. If I'm clinically dead, a fucking gyn exam is not going to bring me back. Let me die with my dignity intact, thank you.

I read a little more on it and there are only two states in the US that specifically have clauses where the woman can CHOOSE to reject medical care if she's inpig, New Jersey and Arizona. 23 states specifically DENY health care directives for the inpig and most of the rest are wishy washy with varying "rules" having to do with length of gestation, some don't have living wills anyway, and some requiring court orders. So, nearly half of the states will invalidate a living will if the patient is inpig for ANY length of time. The general consensus of the pro-lifer set is basically, 'We aren't saying deny a woman's health care directive wishes, but to SAVE THE BAYBEE first and then honor her final wishes" In other words, let her be an incubator against her will.:headbrick

There's also a ton of commentary on the subject out there I will post later when I am not too busy that in a nutshell, says a bunch of shit like, "MOST women would WANT for their loaf to live, so what's the problem?", or, "What abut the husband's rights? Having a baby could make something beautiful out of a tragedy". Still another one I remember was, "WHY should the child's life have to end just because the mother is going to die?" Oh, one infuriating camp on it are the ones who are spewing forth a bunch of "what if" stories about women who had living wills drawn up before becoming inpig, then they are GIDDY with excitement, 8 months inpig, etc.........", "Should we pull the plug and kill THEIR baybies TOO"? GOD, at the idiocy because THOSE scenarios are apples to oranges compared to someone like me who could ONLY possibly be 3 weeks along and not be aware of it yet.

It's pretty clear to anyone with a brain the Moo 8 months along would have wanted the loaf salvaged, but a childfree person or an older person who would likely have shat a tard loaf and would have dialed Planned Parenthood the MINUTE the second line started to materialize on the inpig stick? BIG difference and obviously not even worth mentioning for the purposes of the discussion at hand.:BS

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

I swear if I still had my uterus, I'd be cutting if out about now.

The U.S. has gone completely pronatalist, batshit insane.

IF (big fat, double bold IF) I found myself the host to a parasite and in a coma, I will see to it that my hospital bed "accidentally" be wheeled down an empty elevator shaft.

When I discussed this with my husband he said, "Maybe I'll just exercise my power of attorney and haul you down to the abortion clinic!". That's just it, HE would lose his rights as my medical surrogate too. The medical staff would have ONE legal priority and that's to do everything possible, or not, to my body so the loaf would have it's best chance to hatch.:smn I wonder who would take care of it once it hatched because I can promise you HE wouldn't take it home in a pink or blue blanket. They'd probably say he HAD to take care of it until I died because there's probably some legal loophole about the Moo not "giving up her rights" to the loaf while in a coma or some other such bullshit.:headbrick

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Can you put that in your will with a big, bold "NOT" thrown in to the appropriate location? Maybe even write in abortion instructions? It might not be legally respected, but it's a good way to stick it to the system.

It would seem that the South is turning into Romania.

I've never live in Romania.
I won't be liing in the South, either.

Quote
juliewashere88
Can you put that in your will with a big, bold "NOT" thrown in to the appropriate location? Maybe even write in abortion instructions? It might not be legally respected, but it's a good way to stick it to the system.

Here's a copy of my living will and you can see how this inpig clause thing is contradictory to my wishes. Yeah, you could put what ever you want, but it wouldn't do any good, would have no legal standing without a court order to back it, and I seriously doubt it would arouse much attention and be generally dismissed and ignored by the medical staff, the judges, and "the system" in general. We are talking about Kentucky, where politicians and the majority are still going to court over The Ten Commandments hanging in the courthouses and the no prayer in publc schools law being PROUDLY IGNORED.:headbrick


KidlessKim's Living Will


311.625 Form of living will directive.
(1) A living will directive made pursuant to KRS 311.623 shall be substantially in the
following form, and may include other specific directions which are in accordance
with accepted medical practice and not specifically prohibited by any other statute.
If any other specific directions are held by a court of appropriate jurisdiction to be
invalid, that invalidity shall not affect the directive.



Living Will Directive
(Addendum with specific instructions attached)

My wishes regarding life-prolonging treatment and artificially provided nutrition and
hydration to be provided to me if I no longer have decisional capacity, have a terminal
condition, or become permanently unconscious have been indicated by checking and
initialing the appropriate lines below. By checking and initialing the appropriate lines, I, KidlessKim, specifically:


Designate Mr. KidlessKim (husband) as my health care surrogate(s) to make health care decisions
for me in accordance with this directive when I no longer have decisional capacity. If Mr. KidlessKim refuses or is not able to act for me, I designate *****(sisters)****** and ****father***** jointly, as my health care surrogate(s). Any prior designation is revoked. If I do not designate a surrogate, the following are my directions to my attending physician. If I have designated a surrogate, my surrogate shall comply with my wishes as indicated below:


..X.. Direct that treatment be withheld or withdrawn, and that I be permitted to die naturally
with only the administration of medication or the performance of any medical treatment
deemed necessary to alleviate pain.

.... DO NOT authorize that life-prolonging treatment be withheld or withdrawn.

.... Authorize the withholding or withdrawal of artificially provided food, water, or other
artificially provided nourishment or fluids.

..X.. DO NOT authorize the withholding or withdrawal of artificially provided food, water,
or other artificially provided nourishment or fluids.

.... Authorize my surrogate, designated above, to withhold or withdraw artificially
provided nourishment or fluids, or other treatment if the surrogate determines that
withholding or withdrawing is in my best interest; but I do not mandate that withholding
or withdrawing.

.... Authorize the giving of all or any part of my body upon death for any purpose
specified in KRS 311.1929.


_X__DO NOT authorize the giving of all or any part of my body upon death.

In the absence of my ability to give directions regarding the use of life-prolonging
treatment and artificially provided nutrition and hydration, it is my intention that this
directive shall be honored by my attending physician, my family, and any surrogate
designated pursuant to this directive as the final expression of my legal right to refuse
medical or surgical treatment and I accept the consequences of the refusal.

If I have been diagnosed as pregnant and that diagnosis is known to my attending
physician, this directive shall have no force or effect during the course of my pregnancy. I understand the full import of this directive and I am emotionally and mentally
competent to make this directive.

Signed this 28th day of June, 2012


______________________________
KidlessKim
Hillbilly Town, KY



In our joint presence, the grantor, who is of sound mind and eighteen (18) years of age, or
older, voluntarily dated and signed this writing or directed it to be dated and signed for
the grantor.



_______________________________ _________________________________
Witness Witness

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

I'm curious about how healthy the baby would be, being born to a dead woman. What if the pregnancy was only a few weeks along? The state would keep her alive for nine months?

Quote
chevygirl54
I'm curious about how healthy the baby would be, being born to a dead woman. What if the pregnancy was only a few weeks along? The state would keep her alive for nine months?

In 23 states, the answer is YES.:headbrick

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Quote
kidlesskim

Quote
chevygirl54
I'm curious about how healthy the baby would be, being born to a dead woman. What if the pregnancy was only a few weeks along? The state would keep her alive for nine months?

In 23 states, the answer is YES.:headbrick

Jesus wept.

Bloody damn nuts. I'm a law clerk and now I'm very curious to know if that is the case here in Canada. I smell some case law research in my future...

That is ridiculous. Why would someone bother to create a living will except if she had strong feelings about how she is treated if she is unable to express her choice?

When the state starts saying that the person's feelings can be overridden, that's a very slippery slope. If we're going to make someone carry a baby to term on the grounds that her opinion is invalid because she can't express it, we shouldn't be outraged at--for instance--hospital staff engaging in sexual relations with coma patients.

Quote
yurble
That is ridiculous. Why would someone bother to create a living will except if she had strong feelings about how she is treated if she is unable to express her choice?

When the state starts saying that the person's feelings can be overridden, that's a very slippery slope. If we're going to make someone carry a baby to term on the grounds that her opinion is invalid because she can't express it, we shouldn't be outraged at--for instance--hospital staff engaging in sexual relations with coma patients.

I agree and I think the following part of the Kentucky statute is MORE disturbing than the part at the bottom where it says the inpiigness invalidates my wishes:

311.625 Form of living will directive.
(1) A living will directive made pursuant to KRS 311.623 shall be substantially in the
following form, and may include other specific directions which are in accordance
with accepted medical practice and not specifically prohibited by any other statute.
If any other specific directions are held by a court of appropriate jurisdiction to be
invalid, that invalidity shall not affect the directive.


In other words, a judge could grant my husband's request for a court order to let me die naturally by withholding treatment like I have directed, it could go to appellate court if ANY pro lifer involved files an appeal, INCLUDING a politician looking for votes, a nurse's assistant, or even the fucking intake receptionist at the front desk, and if an appellate fundie judge, and WE HAVE MANY, vetoed the original court order, the living will would still be invalidated. The other part of it I don't like is, "which are in accordance with accepted medical practice...",which in MY area is to save the loaf at all costs.:headbrick

------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

That found for the trip in Switzerland is becoming more and more important by the moment.

Noone can stop me from travelling to Switzerland :satan

Quote
t.
That found for the trip in Switzerland is becoming more and more important by the moment.

Noone can stop me from travelling to Switzerland :satan

"The Suicide Tourist" Documentary-Traveling to Switzerland for Legal Assisted Suicide
If anyone hasn't already, I suggest watching the documentary, 'The Suicide Tourist". It's pretty much what it sounds like in that a man from the United States, after suffering from the near end stages of ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) traveled to Switzerland and ended his life via a legal assisted suicide. It is impossible to watch without becoming emotional as it is very touching mainly because he did NOT really want to die and had such a good life. Out of curiosity, after that I looked up some additional info and prices. I am sure the prices differ depending on where you live, but it would cost me about 7k for a plane ticket, ONE WAY for just me, so 15k for me to take someone with me which I can't imagine NOT doing because you are there for several days and have several mandatory things to do like see their doctor, get educated-counseled about the procedure, and some legal loose ends have to be tied up too.

Then, the company assisting the suicide seems to cost about 5k, although I couldn't find a specific price, and then there's the flight back for your remains, which even if they are cremated there are still fees involved which the best I could tell would be about 2k for an urn and double that for a coffin. Then there's the flight back for your loved one, another 7k or so. Then there are the expenses while there like the hotel and food, which the company isn't legally allowed to have anything to do with your "arrangements" or your stay while there. I think he and his wife were there two weeks and I can't imagine visiting anther country could cost LESS than 2-3k a week. So, my estimate of the cost is in the 30-40k range and we KNOW it would have to be paid in cash.

MOST people couldn't afford this without covertly borrowing it or spending a huge amount of life savings. No fund raisers or donations cans for anything like this would be tolerated, of THAT I am certain. Another thing they didn't discuss was the effect this would have on life insurance. I suppose if your policy was in the uncontested period you'd be okay, in my state it's two years after the effective date, but that would have to be investigated. You can count on it many policies wouldn't cover it and you can forget buying policies after this choice had been made even IF two years elapsed until you did it. It angers me that voluntary euthanasia or assisted suicide isn't legal and free underr some circumstances everywhere and for everyone.

IMPORTANT Rule about the Swiss Assisted Suicide
You are REQUIRED BY LAW to be able to drink the suicide cocktail yourself. So, you'd have to have a minimal type of mobility and be able still to swallow and keep the mixture down. There aren't any "injections", IV, or feeding tubes allowed to administer the suicide drink. You ALSO still have to be able to communicate your wishes at the time they assist you. So, no one in a persistent vegetative state or coma could use these services regardless of what any living will or health care directive said.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!