Lost a Friend to Baby

I have to lament, people. Hope you don't mind.

I just lost my friend, Ray, to her baby. I guess. I'm not sure.

I met Ray ten years ago in bible school. For some odd reason, we became really close friends. I don't know what drew me to her, but she liked my rebellious I-don't-care attitude. She also loved DW. Ray and DW are both Irish redheads. Ray came over to our apartment quite a bit.

A few years ago, Ray went through some hard times, and tried to kill herself. The night she tried to commit suicide, she texted me and I sat up until sunrise talking her down. She always credited me with saving her life.

That ended last week.

A year and a half ago, Ray got married. I was happy for her. But almost out of the honeymoon suite, she said "The greatest gift I can give my husband is his child." I thought, oh no. Until then, Ray hated the idea of being a mother.

A year ago, we had an argument over politics on Facebook and decided it was best if we avoided Facebook. She shut down her page. But we remained in touch on other blogs and via text.

About the time we had our argument, apparently her husband's condom broke. She was oopsed, but decided to keep the child. She gave birth around late August.

A few days ago, I texted her, asking her for her address so I could send her a Christmas card. She ripped me five new anuses! She accused me of not supporting her decision, attacking her family, snubbing her child, etc. All I could figure out is that she read a Facebook conversation I had with another friend who is trying to decide whether or not to have children. I told that friend that children ruin marriages. Somehow, Ray took it as a direct attack on her. I swear, I thought she was off Facebook. When I told her that, she accused me of starting up a new Facebook account just so I could stalk her.

Anyway, she hates me now, apparently. All because of her kid. At least, that's what it looks like. Because I didn't coo over her child, and actually recommended to someone that she remain CF, I'm the spawn of Satan. I've never had so many insults and perjoratives hurled at me as she did in those five text messages.

I'm sure there's more to it. It does seem that she's reverted to the old evangelical way of thinking, a way of thought that we both left in 2008. I guess it was more deeply embedded in her than me. She also accused me of being an atheist.

I have since found out that Ray has dropped out of the University of Texas (being a Longhorn was her dream) after fighting so hard to get in, and has abandoned her goal of being a journalist. Her reason? To be a SAHM!

I have a feeling that when she's 30, Ray will be one miserable woman.

Sorry for all the woe. Just had to get it off my chest.

You say she was oopsed, and that she's on the fundie side, and that she is giving up all her goals to become a SAHM...is she suddenly going to start being a submissive helpmeet too? Do you think there's some sexism and gender role pressuring going on in her marriage? Idk, that's kind of the vibe I got.

Sucks...but when the honeymoon phase wears off and she finds herself feeling lonely for her old friendships, she might come back and apologize.

Quote
thundergirl85 NLI
You say she was oopsed, and that she's on the fundie side, and that she is giving up all her goals to become a SAHM...is she suddenly going to start being a submissive helpmeet too? Do you think there's some sexism and gender role pressuring going on in her marriage? Idk, that's kind of the vibe I got.

Sucks...but when the honeymoon phase wears off and she finds herself feeling lonely for her old friendships, she might come back and apologize.

I have a feeling that there is. Have you ever heard of Kenneth Copeland? That was the preacher we both studied under. She believed him more than I did. He is a sexist and believes women should remain at home and just have babies and bake cookies. She was born into that. I got into it at 30. So, it is very possible that she was bombarded by it from her family and gave in to the pressure, perhaps without realizing it.

Quote
thundergirl85 NLI
You say she was oopsed, and that she's on the fundie side, and that she is giving up all her goals to become a SAHM...is she suddenly going to start being a submissive helpmeet too? Do you think there's some sexism and gender role pressuring going on in her marriage? Idk, that's kind of the vibe I got.

Sucks...but when the honeymoon phase wears off and she finds herself feeling lonely for her old friendships, she might come back and apologize.

That's the kind of feeling I got from this, too. It's sad really. Once someone shits a loaf, it's like they completely lose their identity as a human being. Now it's baybee this, baybee that. An old friend of mine is about to shit her first loaf. Thankfully I haven't talked to her in a while, so dropping her will be easy. Sad thing is she spent four years in university and all that will be for nothing since she'll likely end up a SAH moo.

Quote
nathanomir

Quote
thundergirl85 NLI
You say she was oopsed, and that she's on the fundie side, and that she is giving up all her goals to become a SAHM...is she suddenly going to start being a submissive helpmeet too? Do you think there's some sexism and gender role pressuring going on in her marriage? Idk, that's kind of the vibe I got.

Sucks...but when the honeymoon phase wears off and she finds herself feeling lonely for her old friendships, she might come back and apologize.

I have a feeling that there is. Have you ever heard of Kenneth Copeland? That was the preacher we both studied under. She believed him more than I did. He is a sexist and believes women should remain at home and just have babies and bake cookies. She was born into that. I got into it at 30. So, it is very possible that she was bombarded by it from her family and gave in to the pressure, perhaps without realizing it.

Sadly, I have heard of that preacher. I never studied under him but I was getting some creep and sexist vibes from him by looking at him on TV (before I quickly change the channel). And I also think he's a con-artist too.

Sorry about your friend. I have already lost a former friend to a loaf, but we were drifting apart anyway because of different goals and values.

I could tell you blood curdling tales about Kenneth Copeland.

Here is an example. DW worked for him in the office that handled outside ministries. She was fired in November, 2007. Her crime? Dressing like the Teen Titan Raven for Halloween and posting a picture on Xanga.

Have you ever heard of Kenneth Copeland?

That whackjob. Psychopathic twin of Jerry Falwell.

I'm sorry about your friend. It really hurts when they lose the plot so completely. Her extreme reaction, though, might indicate that she's somewhat ambivalent about the direction her life has taken. If there isn't some insecurity there, why is she so defensive and angry?

Some people can make it work, but my personal experience is that it's just about nigh impossible to be friends with parents. My way of life and theirs has diverged so much that it's hard to find any common ground.

Quote
Snark Shark
"The greatest gift I can give my husband is his child."

"What's your store's gift exchange policy on chyldren?? No refund, but can exchange for a same-or-similarly valued item? Great, I'd like to look at your TVs..."

". I told that friend that children ruin marriages"

merely the truth!

"DW worked for him in the office that handled outside ministries. She was fired in November, 2007. Her crime? Dressing like the Teen Titan Raven for Halloween and posting a picture on Xanga."

1) he's an ASSHOLE!!!

2) Raven- awesome!!! had to make the costume? That's one you probably can't buy at a store.

YOU ROCK!

Yep, it was DIY. If I can find the picture, I'll post it. But be forewarned, she is an Irish redhead. Drooling will ensue.

Quote
barbur
Have you ever heard of Kenneth Copeland?

That whackjob. Psychopathic twin of Jerry Falwell.

.

You're being kind.

Get this. Ray used to sit in the parking lot after bible school, praying as to which way to go home. There were three roads out. If she didn't "hear the holy spirit" tell her which way to go, she sat there and actually cried. That is how abusive this cult was. You had to pray for God's direction on everything, from what car to drive to what underwear to wear that day. I guess she heard God tell her to become a mother, abandon her dreams, drop out of college and tell her different friends to fuck off.

I'm 30 and have lost dozens of friends to their nasty little spawn, and the count's only going to increase. There are a couple that I still see, and share a tea or lunch with, but we can't have a conversation because we're interrupted by screeching and demanding at random, frequent intervals, like a demented alarm clock.

Occasionally a night out is arranged but they always cancel either from being too tired from looking after bratleigh, or because the duh "forgot" they'd arranged a night out and is going out drinking with his friends instead. So essentially, though I still see them, they're no longer friends as I don't have any kind of meaningful interaction with them.

The saddest cases are girls I was really close too at school, we were always laughing and joking, as we got older we spent hours on the phone to each other. Then suddenly they drop a sprog and there is radio silence for years. They won't even answer an email or Facebook message, and the only contact I have with them is to see their status updates featuring their vile brats. Their Facebook avatar changes to one of their chyuld, as their identity gets completely subsumed by the horrible creature.

Thing is as well, I'm not vocally anti-breeder or chyuld with just about anyone. They know I'm childfree by choice but it's not like I've ever said anything to them that would come across as offensive and make them avoid contact with me once they had a kid. So the only thing I can put it down to is the fact that they lose themselves, and in the process, I'm losing the majority of my female friends.

Sounds like Ray was never a friend in the first place. I have a "friend" like that too. Except I lost my "friend" to a troublemaking bitch of a girlfriend who became his wife. It's a long story but how I see it is you can't lose what you never had.


jbs

I'm 26, and a dear friend of mine since high school has just announced her first pregnancy (she's a few months younger than me). This thread has actually got me really scared about if/how she'll change after she has her baby. I'd like to THINK she'll become a PNB, as she's always been very practical and logical, but...what if she doesn't? That would suck hard.

I honestly think its easier being CF when none of your friends have started sprogging yet. Makes it easier to feel "normal", I guess. Less pressure to conform. Anybody have any positive experiences to share about friends giving birth? I'm really sorry about your friend too, Nathanomir. It sucks that she couldn't be more honest with herself and got trapped into a life she'll likely hate.

I have some friends with kids, but I either met them when they already had kids, or we lost contact for about five years and then re-established the connection once the infant/toddler stage was done. I have some other friends who have recently spawned and we're at the phone calls once a year stage; maybe I'll see them again in half a decade. A PNB can manage to maintain adult relationships once the sprog is a little bit older, but I have yet to see someone who wasn't sucked into diaper-land for a few years.

But it's a bad sign when they get upset about you not liking kids or start suggesting that you should have children, too. That's a symptom of baby rabies taking over the brain. My friends know I'm not keen on kids, and don't take it personally. They maintain their own identities and are even capable of hearing criticism about their children (which no breeder can stand).

Nathanomir, that's really sad. I'm sorry to hear about it. It's amazing how a great many years of friendship can just get dashed over the smallest, lamest things. I have always accepted (though certainly never liked) that my baby-wanting pals were going to vanish... and with only a couple of remarkable exceptions, they have. I wish them well, they still like me, too... but it's done.

Your situation just plain sucks. How does your DW feel about it?

-------------------------
"They will say that you are on the wrong road, if it is your own." ~Antonio Porchia

I think it is a matter of hormones and a desperate needs for validation. When the chyldren are baby-toddlers, you need to feel validated because your life consist in, quite litterally, shit. Ok, the shit-making machine is kind of cute, but nothing can be cute when dripping dhiarrea.
EVERYTHING that could make them lose what little rope on reality they have is to be fought tooth and nail.

So maybe she will come around later... and will understand how much she fucked up everything I fear

I am sorry for you loss, Nath.

_______________________

“I was talking about children that have not been properly house-trained. Left to their own impulses and indulged by doting or careless parents almost all children are yahoos. Loud, selfish, cruel, unaffectionate, jealous, perpetually striving for attention, empty-headed, for ever prating or if words fail them simply bawling, their voices grown huge from daily practice: the very worst company in the world. But what I dislike even more than the natural child is the affected child, the hulking oaf of seven or eight that skips heavily about with her hands dangling in front of her -- a little squirrel or bunny-rabbit -- and prattling away in a baby's voice.”


― Patrick O'Brian, The Truelove


lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

Wow. How incredibly sad. I can't imagine what sort of psychological torment has gotten her here, but from the way your describe that guy, it must be bad.

I'm sorry she attacked you. She's probably so stuck in her own hell she doesn't realize what she's doing. Not that it's any excuse, but I have more pity for people like that than anything.

I'm still young enough that none of my close friends have spawned. I'm actually kinda surprised. My friend group is into their mid 20's now, so I suppose it'll be any day now.

I like to think none of them will lose their identity and get turned into gibbering diaper sniffers, but I know that there will probably be some who do.

Hell, a couple years ago, I almost lost a friend to SOMEONE ELSE'S baby. It's a long story, but it weirded me out the way it can affect people.

As soon as the stick turns pink womben lose all concious thought. All of a sudden the only thing they can understand is babby.

I can only speculate about Ray but I would bet my piggy bank she's been brainwashed by the fundy crowd. I'm wondering if she was told to cut ties to the friends she made while she was out of their reach and this is how she did it. For the sake of the loaf I hope she gets therapy that doesn't involve screaming "Sinner" and making her "repent." If that doesn't happen the loaf is in for one hell of a fucked up life.

That is if the loaf lives long enough. Andrea Yates married a fundy and we all know what happened with her.

Sorry about that nathanomir:

It really sucks when people dump you for really stupid things. But a baby? Yeah, that happens to me all the time. People I grew up with and knew for years suddenly disappear into the void when they have children. They just don't have time for us anymore. It's so sad, but what can you do?

Breeder Cartoon

Hate to resurrect an old thread, but it just got worse!

Ray pissed off two of her best friends. She became really snarky with them ... over kids. They both unfriended her on Faceslap, and they have all been friends since middle school.

Ray also bingoed a good of DW and me who is struggling with the idea of having children or not. She's a fencesitter. Ray pretty much pulled all the bingoes on her. DW waded in with her views, in an effort to bait Ray as well as to give our friend the minority report. Don't piss off my wife, she's Irish. And she's pissed off!

I have to agree with johnnybsterile (she was not a friend to you) and add that you were a good friend to her. You have nothing to apologize for.

In fact she has some fucking nerve accusing you of cyber stalking. That's a serious accusation.

The whole 'sitting in her car praying to Gawd to show her the way home' and cries if she doesn't get an answer?! She sounds like an overly attached, over the top emotional girlfriend!

I can't tell if she likes drama and likes to create it or what. Either way, best to cut ties.

Sounds like a drama llama to me. Making up shit just to get attention. I know people like that, and they are the most pathetic bunch I have ever encountered. And they're all breeders too. Imagine that.

Quote
Snark Shark

Quote
gwdzee
The whole 'sitting in her car praying to Gawd to show her the way home' and cries if she doesn't get an answer?! She sounds like an overly attached, over the top emotional girlfriend!

I'd say she sounds like a fucking lunatic!

I think you just hit it on the head, sir.

Quote
gwdzee
I have to agree with johnnybsterile (she was not a friend to you) and add that you were a good friend to her. You have nothing to apologize for.

In fact she has some fucking nerve accusing you of cyber stalking. That's a serious accusation.

The whole 'sitting in her car praying to Gawd to show her the way home' and cries if she doesn't get an answer?! She sounds like an overly attached, over the top emotional girlfriend!

I can't tell if she likes drama and likes to create it or what. Either way, best to cut ties.

_______________________________________________
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

Quote
thom_c

Quote
gwdzee
I have to agree with johnnybsterile (she was not a friend to you) and add that you were a good friend to her. You have nothing to apologize for.

In fact she has some fucking nerve accusing you of cyber stalking. That's a serious accusation.

The whole 'sitting in her car praying to Gawd to show her the way home' and cries if she doesn't get an answer?! She sounds like an overly attached, over the top emotional girlfriend!

I can't tell if she likes drama and likes to create it or what. Either way, best to cut ties.

Dude ... that ... actually ... looks ... like ... Ray! Seriously!