Vasectomy side effects..Or not...

Time to time I come across articles that bash vasectomies. Here is one example:

http://www.pop.org/content/problems-with-quick-fix-1684 Problems with Quick Fix

I was actually curious enough to read the article, but after seeing an anti-abortion ad banner on this site (which links to Anti-Choice Propaganda ), I got really skeptical about the information posted:

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.Org Site
...If that’s not enough, how about other reports of vasectomy resulting in increased incidences of recurrent serious infections, atherosclerosis, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and several other forms of cancer, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, migraine and other forms of headaches, liver dysfunction, generalized lymph node enlargement, and adrenal gland malfunction. According to H. J. Roberts, MD, who has done extensive research on the subject for more than 25 years, “no other operation performed on humans even approaches the degree and duration of multiple immunologic responses that occur in the post-vasectomy state.”

...A few men will demonstrate immediate and significant responses to the presence of antibodies that form following vasectomy. This was my experience. Many other men will take months or years to manifest symptoms, which is why many doctors don’t look for the connection between vasectomy, the antibodies that result, and the diseases that occur later. Even in the case of chronic testicular pain that develops months or years following vasectomy, many doctors will diagnose what appears to them to be epididymitis, which is often from the congestive effects of the procedure.

So, I looked around and found the other site which basically debunks what is being mentioned on this .org source.

http://www.healthcentral.com/ency/408/guides/000037_7_4.html Healthcentral.com

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HealthCentral
Anti-sperm Antibodies. Sperm continue to be produced after vasectomy but are disposed of in the body. In some men the immune system mistakes these sperm as foreign proteins (antigens) and produces anti-sperm antibodies that are designed to target and interfere with sperm's motility (ability to move). Up to two thirds of vasectomized men develop such anti-sperm antibodies. Infections in the genital tract, such as orchitis or sexually transmitted diseases, increase the risk for anti-sperm antibodies. The anti-sperm response itself appears to be a problem only if a man wishes to reverse the vasectomy.

Heart Disease and Other Changes. Some experts are concerned that changes in the immune system might cause damage in other parts of the body, including contributing to heart disease. Animal research has suggested that heart disease accelerates after vasectomy. However, a large 2002 follow-up study of men who had vasectomies found no increase in risk for heart disease, stroke, or peripheral artery disease, even after more than 20 years. Nor did researchers find any evidence of greater risk for hardening of the arteries (atherosclerosis) or inflammation, which play a role in cardiovascular disease.

First thing that is worth noticing is in red. Many guys who are fixed and are not in a long term relationship, to say the least, they are not a very dedicated user of condoms. Is it possible that STDs are partially responsible for some of the issues.

In the second paragraph, highlighted in green, they basically tell the opposite of everything that a .org site claims.

I do wonder, are religious, anti-birth control folks so dedicated to their cause that they will attack anything that suggests birth control? What exactly are they getting out of it?

Those first findings are horse shit. Why would the simple severing of a non-vital tube increase the risks of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, MS, and so forth? What does fertile semen have to do with any of those? If that were the case, would that not mean that guys with a naturally low or non-existent sperm count would be at risk for all these things right alongside their sterilized peers? Oh but it's okay if you're naturally infertile. It's only bad if you're intentionally sterile.

And you could be right, Techie. If a dood gets snipped and has the official green light to fuck everything in sight, he could easily pick up a disease or two from skanky women or men. And who is to say that they don't just develop other issues on their own that are not caused by any sexual activity? Just because a guy who is snipped develops migraines or liver disease doesn't mean the vasectomy is directly responsible for the other problems. If you did a study of non-snipped men over the course of two decades, you could claim that NOT getting a vas causes whatever illnesses all the participants happen to get. Funny how you never hear any actual stories from guys who have all these alleged post-vas issues.

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BS
“no other operation performed on humans even approaches the degree and duration of multiple immunologic responses that occur in the post-vasectomy state.”

Orly? So more problems arise following a vasectomy than, say, transplant surgery? Last time I checked, your life expectancy doesn't decrease from a vas and you don't have to take special drugs for however long you live to prevent rejection and subsequent organ failure.

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Techie
I do wonder, are religious, anti-birth control folks so dedicated to their cause that they will attack anything that suggests birth control?

Why yes, yes they are.

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Techie
What exactly are they getting out of it?

A First-Class ticket to heaven.

Actually, it's just that they're not having any fun, and they don't want anyone else to have any fun, either.

What a huge, raging crock of shit. I can't believe this idiot has had over 30 surgeries and taken 90 medicines for issues related to his precious man parts. Nerve damage is a result of poor surgical technique or just having the bad luck to be one of the few who has a bad reaction to a surgical procedure.

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Cambion
Those first findings are horse shit. Why would the simple severing of a non-vital tube increase the risks of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, MS, and so forth? What does fertile semen have to do with any of those? If that were the case, would that not mean that guys with a naturally low or non-existent sperm count would be at risk for all these things right alongside their sterilized peers? Oh but it's okay if you're naturally infertile. It's only bad if you're intentionally sterile.

And you could be right, Techie. If a dood gets snipped and has the official green light to fuck everything in sight, he could easily pick up a disease or two from skanky women or men. And who is to say that they don't just develop other issues on their own that are not caused by any sexual activity? Just because a guy who is snipped develops migraines or liver disease doesn't mean the vasectomy is directly responsible for the other problems. If you did a study of non-snipped men over the course of two decades, you could claim that NOT getting a vas causes whatever illnesses all the participants happen to get. Funny how you never hear any actual stories from guys who have all these alleged post-vas issues.

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BS
“no other operation performed on humans even approaches the degree and duration of multiple immunologic responses that occur in the post-vasectomy state.”

Orly? So more problems arise following a vasectomy than, say, transplant surgery? Last time I checked, your life expectancy doesn't decrease from a vas and you don't have to take special drugs for however long you live to prevent rejection and subsequent organ failure.

Some people claim that that around 70% of fixed men have presence of sperm anti-bodies in their blood stream. Medical community claims that such anti-bodies have no effect on immune system. Some people claim that such anti-bodies cause immune system to self attack. There is another thing that I read that some men have sperm anti-bodies before a vasectomy and that certain STDs can cause such anti-bodies.

I know a number of guys who are fixed and those who are not in LTR, they toy around and they are very open about not using any protection. I also know that STDs can cause internal organ damage and that is confirmed by reputable medical research. Another study out there says that men who are fixed are most likely to have STDs - I doubt a research is needed for that.

What are they getting out of it? Simple.

They hate the idea that anyone gets to be free of the shit they've let control their lives. They resent the idea that those of us who are fixed can have sex without the black cloud of unwanted reproduction hanging over our heads.

Vasectomies (and tubals) have risks like any surgery, but they are really quite minor and mostly avoided by just going to a competent surgeon. The sperm anti-bodies thing can actually happen, but only as pertains to "reversible" vasectomies, which are still considered experimental, and only if the surgeon fucks up and doesn't completely close off the tube. It is nowhere near 70%, in any case, and even if it were, it's not really a big deal.

It's a perfect example of taking an exceptional case and inflating it beyond any recognition.

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lilin_unite
What are they getting out of it? Simple.

They hate the idea that anyone gets to be free of the shit they've let control their lives. They resent the idea that those of us who are fixed can have sex without the black cloud of unwanted reproduction hanging over our heads.

Vasectomies (and tubals) have risks like any surgery, but they are really quite minor and mostly avoided by just going to a competent surgeon. The sperm anti-bodies thing can actually happen, but only as pertains to "reversible" vasectomies, which are still considered experimental, and only if the surgeon fucks up and doesn't completely close off the tube. It is nowhere near 70%, in any case, and even if it were, it's not really a big deal.

It's a perfect example of taking an exceptional case and inflating it beyond any recognition.

You have a very good point there. From what I read, anti-sperm bodies occur then "natural sperm to blood barrier is broken". That makes sense, if something like a tied end does come loose, sperm may leak into blood stream.

While non-mainstream research sees a problem with it, medical science says otherwise. In New Zealand, where vasectomy is very common, men don't just appear to be more sick than in other places. Then, there is also "research" that claim that men who are not fathers are likely to suffer from mental issues due to the lack of "mental stimulation that only kyds can bring." Once I figured out that a religious institution was behind the "research", I have completely dismissed that malarkey.

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Cambion
Those first findings are horse shit. Why would the simple severing of a non-vital tube increase the risks of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, MS, and so forth? What does fertile semen have to do with any of those? If that were the case, would that not mean that guys with a naturally low or non-existent sperm count would be at risk for all these things right alongside their sterilized peers? Oh but it's okay if you're naturally infertile. It's only bad if you're intentionally sterile.

It would be an interesting study, that might be used in comparison, to look at men who've had genital surgery *for other reasons* and see what their incidence of various diseases are.

Correlation =/= causation. I do not know of bio research, I did study Phys. and Eng. in school so I can read sci papers and IMO many of these 'studies' not to mention their 'findings' are very poorly done and biased. The idea of 'back engineering' (not same as 'reverse engineering') - this has to do with - you solve one problem at a time. So you find the issue. Is it system A, B, or C? Fix all of them at once and you won't know the orig. issue. You have to work one thing at a time. The commercial end of applied sci follows this, all industry does (else money may be wasted) - you'd think 'serious research' would do the same. IMO - if it looks sloppy - it's probably BS.

Consider this - what if it seems as if urban men get divorced more and get more vasectomies? And also showed higher illness rates? Well, it could be *other factors* such as higher pollution or insane commute times which would make anyone want to mutilate their own genitals - right there in the car.

You could poll 100 of such men and see that 50 are fixed and also have cancer. Is the Snip the cause? Probably not. A great lot might have 'road rage' tickets also - so does that mean spending a few hours in lock up - is that where they got the cancer? Probably not.

I have to do modeling or forecasting for work purposes. It's tricky stuff. There are multiple variables. Well, in my case things are not too bad, it could be worse - I should think weather forecasting is worse / more variables, which can change rapidly ~

I'm not really sure how these "Social Scientists" set up their experiments or models - but from what I read, it seems like they're not isolating variables / ignoring many, and then making some far fetched conclusion between a pre determined two. Most of this stuff seems very sloppy to me. And it's clear that many have made up their minds ahead of time / are paid to agree with their financial backers.

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lilin_unite
What are they getting out of it? Simple.

They hate the idea that anyone gets to be free of the shit they've let control their lives. They resent the idea that those of us who are fixed can have sex without the black cloud of unwanted reproduction hanging over our heads.

Ding ding ding!

They hate the fact that people are "getting away with it". They willfully deny the fact that recreational sex is actually good for a couple, and that humans have sex for many reasons: stress release, expression of love/affection, affirming pair bonds, to enhance sleep, and because it's fun and feels good. Procreation is only one function of sex. And considering the evidence of various contraceptive-type remedies throughout various cultures and history, it's safe to say that people have been trying to dodge (or at least control) the procreative aspect of sex for a long, long time! Nothin' new under the sun.

Yep, there are chances of bad reactions post-vasectomy, just like there are with any medical procedure. And as lilin_unite pointed out, a good surgeon will do all s/he can to mitigate those risks. I'm sure the author of that "article" wouldn't be happy if I pointed out the nasty after-effects of childbirth or caeserian section though!

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Techie

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lilin_unite
What are they getting out of it? Simple.

They hate the idea that anyone gets to be free of the shit they've let control their lives. They resent the idea that those of us who are fixed can have sex without the black cloud of unwanted reproduction hanging over our heads.

Vasectomies (and tubals) have risks like any surgery, but they are really quite minor and mostly avoided by just going to a competent surgeon. The sperm anti-bodies thing can actually happen, but only as pertains to "reversible" vasectomies, which are still considered experimental, and only if the surgeon fucks up and doesn't completely close off the tube. It is nowhere near 70%, in any case, and even if it were, it's not really a big deal.

It's a perfect example of taking an exceptional case and inflating it beyond any recognition.

You have a very good point there. From what I read, anti-sperm bodies occur then "natural sperm to blood barrier is broken". That makes sense, if something like a tied end does come loose, sperm may leak into blood stream.

While non-mainstream research sees a problem with it, medical science says otherwise. In New Zealand, where vasectomy is very common, men don't just appear to be more sick than in other places. Then, there is also "research" that claim that men who are not fathers are likely to suffer from mental issues due to the lack of "mental stimulation that only kyds can bring." Once I figured out that a religious institution was behind the "research", I have completely dismissed that malarkey.

Yeah, that's the thing. As far as I'm aware, developing sperm anti-bodies doesn't do anything except make the vasectomy more effective. Uh, sounds good to me.

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randomcfchick

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lilin_unite
What are they getting out of it? Simple.

They hate the idea that anyone gets to be free of the shit they've let control their lives. They resent the idea that those of us who are fixed can have sex without the black cloud of unwanted reproduction hanging over our heads.

Ding ding ding!

They hate the fact that people are "getting away with it". They willfully deny the fact that recreational sex is actually good for a couple, and that humans have sex for many reasons: stress release, expression of love/affection, affirming pair bonds, to enhance sleep, and because it's fun and feels good. Procreation is only one function of sex. And considering the evidence of various contraceptive-type remedies throughout various cultures and history, it's safe to say that people have been trying to dodge (or at least control) the procreative aspect of sex for a long, long time! Nothin' new under the sun.

Yep, there are chances of bad reactions post-vasectomy, just like there are with any medical procedure. And as lilin_unite pointed out, a good surgeon will do all s/he can to mitigate those risks. I'm sure the author of that "article" wouldn't be happy if I pointed out the nasty after-effects of childbirth or caeserian section though!

I am always interested in research of medical issues and their solution, but the issue that concerns me is that many sites that speak out against vasectomy seem to offer no alternatives. Some of such sites are also linked to anti-abortion propaganda. Call me closed minded, but when someone begins to attack a form of birth control and they also speak out against women's rights to choose, I have a very difficult time reading anything from such site.

You are making a very good point about after-effects of child birth. There are women who live in permanent, lifelong state of pain that has appeared after child birth. I personally think that risks from child birth are way greater than risks from a sterilization surgery.

They don't offer alternatives because they don't want anybody to be able to have sex without "consequences."
Their solution is natural family planning, breeding or all the sluts keeping their legs closed.

They offer no alternatives because they don't want people having recreational sex. The end.

There is this one other site, I personally do not see why it would misrepresent sterilization. While vasectomy is one of the services that they offer, they do many more breeder oriented procedures. I think that if anyone was going to attack vasectomy, it would be a male fertility clinic, after all, their point is to promote breeding. Here is a link:

theturekclinic.com/services/vasectomy/post-vasectomy-vasectomies-pain-risks-and-complications-side-effects/

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...The literature suggests that approximately 20% of men will have “chronic pain” (pain 3 months or more after the procedure) following vasectomy. This surprised Dr. Turek and led him to undertake an extensive survey of hundreds of his patients to examine the issue of chronic pain in his practice...

...Overall, 7% of respondents said they had pain, much lower than the well-recognized and commonly published rate. In addition, no man in the survey was self-medicating for pain. But the survey investigated the pain even further. From this, Dr. Turek learned that the pain his patients were having was not only found in the scrotum, but was also occurring elsewhere in the body...

...To further examine this issue, Dr. Turek also surveyed healthy medical students who had not had a vasectomy and found almost identical findings: 5% had chronic pain, sometimes in the scrotum, but often elsewhere – and without a vasectomy! ...

The lesson learned from this research was that:

1) normal, healthy men occasionally have scrotal and other kinds of pain, making the scrotum a “hot spot” for men,

2) the prevalence of this pain in Dr. Turek’s vasectomy patients is no different from that found in healthy men without vasectomies, and

3) the men at highest risk for having pain after vasectomy are men with pain in the scrotum or even elsewhere before the vasectomy. Overall, this has been reassuring information for Dr. Turek’s patients to know.

Another thing. Many websites that attack vasectomy mention that they obtained information from some kind of a doctor. More often than not, credentials are not mentioned. Here are some credentials for Dr. Turek (very impressive in my opinion):

theturekclinic.com/about/about-dr-paul-turek-male-mens-fertility-doctors-clinics-san-francisco-los-angeles-beverly-hills-best-top-urologist/

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Dr. Paul Turek has been recognized as one of America’s Best Doctors by seven accrediting organizations (US News and World Report Top Doctors, Marquis Who’s Who, Best Doctors, Patient’s Choice.org, Top MD-Consumer’s Checkbook, SuperDoctors and Castle-Connolly, Inc.). Dr. Turek graduated from Yale College with highest honors (summa cum laude), Phi Beta Kappa, and then attended medical school at Stanford University, where he also took top research honors. He completed his residency in urology at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, the nation’s first medical school, founded by Benjamin Franklin.

When there is a doctor who is out in the open, who has disclosed his credentials and has backed his statements with research, I tend to believe him.

When certain .org sites start showing some credentials, education and research, they may gain some ground to stand on. But, at this point, I have a suspicion that they there may not be any ground to their statements to begin with.