At least some honesty

Here is an article that popped up in my Yahoo news feed about a woman who touches the subject of what pregnancy can do to your body. It is refreshing to hear some honest facts after the whole bullshit i've been fed lately. I think i never heard so many lies in my life when in comes to pregnancy and childbirth especially if you are CF or at least if you don't have kids.

My mom refuses flat out to tell me how her births were and changes the subject if i ask. She told me i am a coward and immature with an irrational fear of smth. that is natural. Then trying to convince me is not that bad told me that medicine has advanced and i won't feel a thing. She denies when i told her exactly what happens when you are pregnant and give birth. I'm not stupid. I read a lot and inform myself. Besides ALL women in my family got very fat after giving birth and never lost the weight completely which for most led to heart complications and high blood pressure.

About the stretchmarks part...i also have those on my thighs and knees as a result of growing during puberty. I'm not even fat but my skin was so sensitive to these modifications that i got them so easily. I don't even want to imagine what would happen to my belly. And besides it seems that my relatives who are so eager to get a granchyyld ignore the fact that i have PCOS, had nasty problems with my back and one knee that would send me straight in a wheelchair if i got knocked up and lately my thyroid has been acting strange. Do these people really not care?

But as i see i'm not the only one with insensitive parents, here is a comment:
The ill effects of pregnancy and birth never go away. As we age, the skin around the abdomen sags along with the breasts. The stretch marks just look that much worse then. I suffered nerve damage to my bladder during the birth of my first baby and have had incontinence problems since age 24 . That put an end to all of my sports activities immediately. And, if it's not treated, it just gets worse. I debate whether to "educate" my two daughters on the real facts of how damaging a pregnancy can be physiologically, esthetically, and psychologically or let them discover it on their own. I'd like to tell them to just adopt and spare your body. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't.

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blackpearl
Here is an article that popped up in my Yahoo news feed about a woman who touches the subject of what pregnancy can do to your body. It is refreshing to hear some honest facts after the whole bullshit i've been fed lately. I think i never heard so many lies in my life when in comes to pregnancy and childbirth especially if you are CF or at least if you don't have kids.

My mother was very honest with my sister and I about her birth and miscarriage experiences. My sister, who was a surprise baby, was a forceps delivery. Another surprise baby was miscarried late in pregnancy. The miscarriage nearly killed her. (This was in the days when birth control was both hard to get and problematic, 1962.) After this, she went out and adopted me, a sped toadler.

+++++++++++++

Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!

Being honest about this issue with your own kids is the best. Let them decide if they want to go through that or not.

I'm glad that my mom at least never ever bingoed me. I've been very vocal about not wanting children from a very early age on and my mom never said much. When I grew up and started dating she just told me that whatever I did, the one thing she did not want me to do was to get pregnant. Since there never was a chance of that happening, the discussion ended there.

My father, on the other hand, is a completely different case....

Of course people should be honest with their kids. I also think that when it comes to sex ed in schools, the focus should be on the whole truth about pregnancy and all that crap. Learning about STDs is all well and good, but it should be about more than that.

Although I am a guy, my mother was certain to take her time to explain to me the damages that pregnancy does to a woman's body. She instilled it in me from very early on that pregnancy is strictly a woman's choice and that no man has a right to demand that a woman does that to her body.

To this day I find it extremely difficult to absorb that ANY man would demand that a woman has a kid for him. To me, that is extremely fucked up and I see that being as bad as physical abuse. It is one thing if a woman wants a kid - it is her body. But to demand that a woman has a child when she is reluctant to do it - can we legalize castration?

My mom told me that pregnancy with me was horrible. I gave her a rash and even though she had a spinal labor and delivery hurt like crazy. She said it was worth it to her but not everybody. She was in for one more on the grounds my dad get snipped the week after my sister was born. My dad kept chanting "you never have to do this again" during her hatching process. My mom and dad both tell me I am smart for not having kyds I didn't want. Some women have easy births, some don't. I want no births. Doesn't get any easier than that.

My mum told me several times how bad the birth was and how fucked up she was physically after it. But it's all worth it apparently......

So much so that my mum shut the baybee shop and refused to have any more.

Blackpearl I get the same shit about being immature etc, it's natcheral, yada yada. Natural doesn't always mean it's good, and we find plenty of ways to thwart the ugly side of nature every day - unfortunately they haven't yet found a way of producing children without the need for someone to incubate them. You bet your ass all these,preachy moos would be queuing up for an in vitro incubated loaf that they didn't have to carry and shit out. Because everybody knows pregnancy and birth are shit!

I simply do not tolerate any breeder bingos about any aspect of childbirth from anyone, family or not.

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cassia
I simply do not tolerate any breeder bingos about any aspect of childbirth from anyone, family or not.

Same here wink

They can all

_________________________________________________________

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"She, and all other rabid breeders, are like crabs in a bucket headed to Red Lobster. When they see a smarter crab escaping, they try to pull it back in." - Miss Hannigan

"Yeah, that's what family is about - guilt tripping people into cleaning up someone else's mess." - mrs. chinaski

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yummynotmummy
Because everybody knows pregnancy and birth are shit!

Everybody know but breeders pretend that we don't know so they keep lying. I don't want to sound lika a biatch but i think if your own moo keeps the facts of pregnancy and childbirth for you and pictures it with rosy glasses it might have been horrible for her and wants you to go through the same shit.

My mom also lied to me about pap smears before i had one. She told me they do not hurt at all and women complaining on the internet are exaggerating. It actually hurt like a shit, i bled for 2 days, had pain when peeing and it was also painful when i sat down. After i complained about it my mom said: "Well, yeah they are uncomfortable but i couldn't tell you that because you wouln't have had one. Women have to endure certain stuff sometimes." Thanks god i checked on the internet and the whole thing didn't come out as a shock.

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blackpearl
Everybody knows but breeders pretend that we don't know so they keep lying.

Sooner or later a breeder will want some attention and they will begin to whine about "how hard it is to have a chyld". That is where you would say: "See, that is why I chose not to do it". Watch them back pedal faster than lighting and begin to spew out bingos and "it is not so bad" hogwash and pisswater.

I got a story on that. I know a woman who was originally from Eastern Europe. She came here (USA) to study. This woman was "CF" and back then said that she would never have kids. Well, she met her man, married him and her now husband talked her into having a kid. Throughout her entire pregnancy and childbirth and to this day she complains about all the difficult things that she has to deal with. Yet, every time she sees me, she begins to vomit this crap that I should just have a bay-bee - no thanks. I have been playing this woman like a yoyo toy, because she will say how "great things are" and I will tell her how much whining she does. It goes back and forth. One minute her life is hell another minute things are just peachy - dumb bitch. One minute she is not having more kids, but as soon as her husband walks into the room then "maybe another kid" they are having - idiot. I think she hates the trap that her dickhead husband got her into and she sees me walking free and she does not like it, because it could have and would have been her if only she divorced the breeder when he demanded to breed.

Also, take a look who wants to breed the most - very poor and very rich.

Here's a tidbit I seriously have not heard from any other breeder anywhere about a possible consequence of childbirth...
My mom's belly skin isn't really skin any more. She blames it on my younger sister for "laying head forward" all the time, but I don't think that's it.
Her skin is this weird crinkly texture like plastic that has been crumpled and then laid flat and then crumpled some more and mostly laid flat. Seriously, it has ridges and everything.
I've only touched it once since I was old enough to remember, when I was 16 I accidentally got close enough reaching over her and her shirts rode up somehow, and it was a bizarre feeling and made a noise under my finger.
I think it's not entirely childbirth to blame as she's spent her entire life in those magic mormon undies(includes the shirt) and so I suspect this has done something weird to her skin.

So glad I'll never give birth! It's bad enough that I've been fat a few times, thanks for the shitty genes in several ways, mom! Food intolerances that the family was too embarrassed to tell me about made me blow up like a beached whale.
And so I've got the lovely vertical stretch marks kind of approaching moo-belly. I like to think it's not quite as bad as some, but I'm sure those with great skin genes have given birth and have fewer stretch marks than I do. Sadly.
At least I don't have the fucked up skin my mom does though.

Never. Never ever.

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Presto
Here's a tidbit I seriously have not heard from any other breeder anywhere about a possible consequence of childbirth...
My mom's belly skin isn't really skin any more. She blames it on my younger sister for "laying head forward" all the time, but I don't think that's it.
Her skin is this weird crinkly texture like plastic that has been crumpled and then laid flat and then crumpled some more and mostly laid flat. Seriously, it has ridges and everything.
I've only touched it once since I was old enough to remember, when I was 16 I accidentally got close enough reaching over her and her shirts rode up somehow, and it was a bizarre feeling and made a noise under my finger.
I think it's not entirely childbirth to blame as she's spent her entire life in those magic mormon undies(includes the shirt) and so I suspect this has done something weird to her skin.

You can see pictures of that kind of skin on some of those women who are proud of their moo shape and who post pictures naked or in bikinis. It looks absolutely horrific.

I overheard 2 older ladies talking today and one of the ladies was talking about her daughter giving birth. I cannot remember all of the terminology, but her daughter could not walk for like 4 months after giving birth. Something about some serious nerve damage (that had to hurt - if there is a word to describe it). She basically had to re-learn walking and does not walk like she used to. To this day her daughter cannot feel the fronts of her legs.

It always makes me wonder, all those men who push women into having bay-bees, are these men aware what they are asking? It's one thing if she wants to do it, but if she does not, let it be.

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Techie
I overheard 2 older ladies talking today and one of the ladies was talking about her daughter giving birth. I cannot remember all of the terminology, but her daughter could not walk for like 4 months after giving birth. Something about some serious nerve damage (that had to hurt - if there is a word to describe it). She basically had to re-learn walking and does not walk like she used to. To this day her daughter cannot feel the fronts of her legs.

It always makes me wonder, all those men who push women into having bay-bees, are these men aware what they are asking? It's one thing if she wants to do it, but if she does not, let it be.

On a similar note, I was reading something the other day and a moo was talking about another moo whose stomach muscle had separated or detached (not sure from what - perhaps some medical person here can explain) and the woman now looks PERMANENTLY 5 mo. inpig!!:hs Oh fuck no. :crz

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Techie
It always makes me wonder, all those men who push women into having bay-bees, are these men aware what they are asking? It's one thing if she wants to do it, but if she does not, let it be.

Those men simply do not care. I recently joined a Finnish CF group on FB and there were lots of women who had to end relationships and even 10 year marriages because the guy caught rabies. They also tried to talk to these guys about pregancy and childbirth and the answers these women got were along the lines of "it's not that bad, all women do it, women are built for birth, get over it". As a guy you should be pretty darn insensitive to say that.

But on another note men might not even know what the whole process implies or have a very vague idea. DH was completely oblivious about it, too because nobody told him and he wasn't interested in it thinking it's a woman's business. I also think that men should be made more aware of it and yes, i agree, if a woman really wants to birth...fine but pushing her to do it against her will...big NO.

I'm very pressured at the moment by my family and my mom just told me a while ago while being at the beach: "Look at all these women with kids, they are so in shape, you're just irrational and immature by being afraid to destroy your body." Nevermind that ALL women in my family got fat like whales after giving birth. My mom was 55kg before me and got to almost 90 after having me.

And besides, no, i'm not afraid of the strechmarks like my mom likes to think but of the permanent damage that might leave me with disabilities and chronic pain (the horrible cases you all mentioned above). Did i mention i have been having chronic backpain for 9 years now? And besides the whole birth process is disgusting, painful and humiliating. Losing control over my body and being treated like a piece of meat would be the last thing to send me back into anxiety and depression.

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blackpearl
Those men simply do not care. I recently joined a Finnish CF group on FB and there were lots of women who had to end relationships and even 10 year marriages because the guy caught rabies. They also tried to talk to these guys about pregancy and childbirth and the answers these women got were along the lines of "it's not that bad, all women do it, women are built for birth, get over it". As a guy you should be pretty darn insensitive to say that.

It happens here as well. There is a local CF group near where I live and every now and then I will see some long time members disappear. Majority of group activities are for couples so I don't participate in many get togethers designed for couples, but the times when it is a singles night out, I go. Stories that I hear are similar - partner was ok without kids then something just snapped. Most cases are followed by messy divorces. Some, I suspect, people give into breeding. I would say that something like a 10 year old relationship would come apart before someone changes and breeds. But newer ones, like 2-3 year relationships, those people disappear as a couple - I assume they breed and want nothing to do with a CF group. This CF group does not provisions for "used to be CF".

Both men and women get similar pressure to breed. I think a CF man, under pressure, is more likely to crack. I personally have been messed with and manipulated in many ways - I have the experience. CF women, I think they are less likely to give in and will fight a lot harder and much longer, that is why I think most CF blogs are predominantly ran by women. Guys either get a CF partner and enjoy life or many just crack under pressure and breed. I have been called all kinds of terrible names for not wanting to breed and for "denying a woman her most basic human right", some of that shit actually got to my head. I am still having some unpleasant recollections of those "conversations" and being a guy, good luck finding support, because you know, "all men make good fathers". But, some guys will fight - I know I did. Still standing

In my case i'm the one under pressure and from my family. DH's family hasn't said anything about it or at least not yet. I also heard the same awful things like you but usually from my mom that no man will want me because all men want kids (so, yeah, exactly the other way round). Also she told me that i'm denying DH kids and i should leave him be with a normal woman because i'm the one who "poisoned" him. I never "poisoned" anyone, i was just honest from the beginning of relationship...if you agree stay, if you don't go. Then my mom told me that DH will leave me because he will want kids someday.

These things hurt me a lot and even if she didn't say them recently they still haunt me and sometimes cause me anxiety attacks. I've also been put under a lot of guilt recently and made me wonder more and more if i'm not wrong and exaggerating about being CF. It has been a hell of a summer until now and not because of the heat. And all people/friends breeding around doesn't make it easier at all.

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blackpearl
I'm very pressured at the moment by my family and my mom just told me a while ago while being at the beach: "Look at all these women with kids, they are so in shape, you're just irrational and immature by being afraid to destroy your body." Nevermind that ALL women in my family got fat like whales after giving birth. My mom was 55kg before me and got to almost 90 after having me.

Whatever you do, stand your ground. Fight with all that you got. Get help from other CF people if needed. Telling a perent to get lost is way easier than telling a spouse to get lost, but both are possible. If you don't want to breed, don't do it. In fact, unless you are 1000% positive that you want to breed, only then do it.

Sometimes, people who love us the most are the same people who want the worst for us. Your mom wanting a grand kid is not a desire that would make YOU happy. It is rather something that would make HER happy. You, having a kid, it just promotes her agenda, it ensures that you will be forced to be around HER more often. This is the same reason that parents tell their kids that money is not important. If kids go out and pursue life goals, such kids may leave and keep little to no contact with parents. Parents don't want any of that. They want you to stay in their home town, raise grand kids and be with them forever. People are habitual creatures, they want a guarantee of no change.

Genetics are very difficult to beat. There are exceptions, but not many. If your mom's body did what it did, yours would likely too. It has been programmed to do that. Stretch marks and being big is not even that huge of a deal. Having a kid that you do not want is the worst thing that can happen - stretch marks or not. I see plenty of single moos at a gym and they have nice and tight bodies. They are still single. They can keep working out and do whatever they want. You know why? Nobody cares about the looks if she is a moo with baggage in tow. No man that makes OK living wants ANYTHING to do with that.

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blackpearl
In my case i'm the one under pressure and from my family. DH's family hasn't said anything about it or at least not yet. I also heard the same awful things like you but usually from my mom that no man will want me because all men want kids (so, yeah, exactly the other way round). Also she told me that i'm denying DH kids and i should leave him be with a normal woman because i'm the one who "poisoned" him. I never "poisoned" anyone, i was just honest from the beginning of relationship...if you agree stay, if you don't go. Then my mom told me that DH will leave me because he will want kids someday.

These things hurt me a lot and even if she didn't say them recently they still haunt me and sometimes cause me anxiety attacks. I've also been put under a lot of guilt recently and made me wonder more and more if i'm not wrong and exaggerating about being CF. It has been a hell of a summer until now and not because of the heat. And all people/friends breeding around doesn't make it easier at all.

I too still at times get remnants of anxiety, cold sweat, no desire to sleep, lack of appetite, or just simple depression. Some people are affected by personal life more than others. It did many tricks to me. At times I have flashbacks when I hear about people getting harassed like I used to be. I too am reminded by certain family members that the reason I am still single is because I refused to breed. I used to argue with them but now I just say: "yeah, ok, you win, now what?"

Now, the comment from your mom, about how your man can leave you to go breeding. Please take no offense, but your mom is either clueless about how 50% of modern men think or she is withholding the information because she has her own agenda - such as grand bay-bees. 50% of men don't really think if they want to breed or not. They think with their dicks and the only thing they care about is where to stick it next. If such guy has been with his woman for a long time and he is getting bored with her, he will find a "newer model, with fewer miles and shiny paint". That's right. He will use any excuse that he can find to scrap the old model and get a new one, with fresh scent, tight body, head turning looks. Being that breeding is the part of the "buyer's agreement"of this fancy new model, he will agree to breed without thinking. How convenient that breeding is also a sanctioned practice, so he will not catch hell from anyone - all he has to say was that his mean old nasty wife did not want children. His newer, hotter and tighter bodied "replacement" who, by "accident" is much younger than the "old model" is just so kind and pleasant that she wants to make baybees NOW. That is how 50% of men think. If the hole where they stick their dicks wants to pop out baybees - they will let their dick decide.

Your man is not just going to leave for breeding. How many men do you know that wanted to breed and they just got divorced, got their own place and THEN the started looking. Not many. Most find a younger hottie first, usually 25 and under and then they divorce. If your man loves you - nothing else matters.

There is another 50% of men who would not trade their partner for anything. If your man is one of them, you guys can survive just about anything. Your mom's logic is flawed in this case too. Your one good comeback is that you have your own job and your own money and that your man is your partner and not your wallet.

Look at it this way. If your man is going to bail, he will bail. Giving him a kid will not stop him. It will make your situation worse, yes, but the idea that your mom has about keeping a man by giving a kid is very flawed. Single moos and duhs are everywhere - kids don't hold anyone together.

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Techie
I too still at times get remnants of anxiety, cold sweat, no desire to sleep, lack of appetite, or just simple depression. Some people are affected by personal life more than others. It did many tricks to me. At times I have flashbacks when I hear about people getting harassed like I used to be. I too am reminded by certain family members that the reason I am still single is because I refused to breed. I used to argue with them but now I just say: "yeah, ok, you win, now what?"

I also get that and it actually turned into anxiety disorder. I took for a while medication but then it calmed down. It usually starts with people making me feel guilty. I mean a small bingo now and then from strangers doesn't really affect me. But when it comes down to insults, pressure and guilt it can be really disturbing.

The whole thing confused me because my mom also told how some of her neighbours are doing (i also know them).

1. Neighbour 1. marries and his wife is ambivalent about kids leaning towards CF. He wants a kid and she gives in because she loves him. Kid comes everything seems ok until the guy starts cheating on her and almost leaves her. She gets pregnant with the second because that's what she saw on TV to keep your man. The guy is still with her but once he did the deed what would make him stop from doing it again? Rememeber he wanted kids in the first place.

2. Neighbour 2. a very nice lady, has a great relationship with her school sweetheart. They have a kid. He dumps her for another woman. She remarries and has two more kids. Now they are fighting because she caught her present husband cheating.

In case no. 1 i was quite shocked because i know the guy and he has always been a family man-type and they both seemed so happy.

My ex told people that he left me because I wouldn't breed for him. (I'd had a tubal ligation prior to marriage.) Actually, I dumped him like a hot potato because he was cheating and pressuring me to have a kid, all at the same time. Funny, he neglected to tell our Church friends that part of the story.

Some people just aren't suited for long-term relationships. They can't communicate; they don't know what they want and when they get it, they are still disastisfied. My ex is certainly a prime example of this. We both made good money and had a decent life. I've always thought it was better for a marriage for both people to work, but he decided he wanted a subservient woman who did what he said. (Or so he thought.) Some men want children, but some men want their wives to have children because they think that will make the wife less likely to leave him and he'll get to rule the roost.

Incidentally, he didn't end up with his affair partner. She went back to her husband, and he promptly told our mutual friends that he "didn't know why I left." This included the time he BROKE DOWN, SOBBING, IN BEST BUY when talking to a mutual friend. (This was three years after our divorce. What a tool.)

I heard about 4-5 years ago that he married a younger, "rescue me" type with little kids. (Two or three, I can't remember which.) I feel sorry for the kids, I really do. I don't know if they've had One of Our Own^TM yet. (Keep in mind, this dude is 55 years old and has the patience of a gnat.) The kids moved into his house, a house that I dumped money into, and last I heard she was homeskooling the brats. I recently heard from a mutual acquaintance that he's stopped talking about her and looks miserable. And YES, AS A MATTER OF FACT, the Schadenfreude is delicious.


Anyway, that's a long, drifty story that illustrates that some men will badger a woman for kids one week, and leave her not long after. Just because someone wants kids, it doesn't mean he's going to stick around.
And Jeebus, any sane person can look around and see that kids do not glue people together--if anything, they cause a bad marriage to fly apart faster.

Black pearl, your mom is misguided. It sounds as if she's throwing out any nasty barb she can think of to get what she wants, regardless if you want it. Frankly, she sounds like a nasty piece of work.

Hell pushing out a large turd the morning after a cheesy pizza binge has left me in the fetal position on the bathroom floor. Can't imagine dropping a loaf...

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bell_flower
My ex told people that he left me because I wouldn't breed for him. (I'd had a tubal ligation prior to marriage.) Actually, I dumped him like a hot potato because he was cheating and pressuring me to have a kid, all at the same time. Funny, he neglected to tell our Church friends that part of the story.

This is very typical. What he really wanted was someone else. Using a desire to breed is just a ticket out of looking like a loser. Works in our society.

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bell_flower
Some people just aren't suited for long-term relationships. They can't communicate; they don't know what they want and when they get it, they are still dissatisfied.

Based on the divorce statistic, 50% of marriages fail. I am guessing that 50% of people out there are not into any kind of long term relationship. Problem is that people like your ex will try to have a relationship with a person like yourself - who was right for a long term relationship. I have no problem with people who just want to hook up, it is just such people at times attempt to have it both ways. Unfortunately, people who care the most, they lose the most.

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bell_flower
I heard about 4-5 years ago that he married a younger, "rescue me" type with little kids.

People like him usually do go after women like that. They simply follow physical attraction. She needed money, he wanted her appearance. Sooner or later he will get tired of her too, but at that point he may be too old to jump around.

I feel like the bingos in my life haven't really started yet.
Although I have heard "I want grandchildren" hints, I haven't heard anything so psychologically damaging as what you guys are telling.
Everytime I ask myself if a child would make me happy (when people around me talk about childrearing), I get chills and my face automatically frowns. This is my mind, which I trust 99.99% of the time, telling me I will NOT be happy. I rather be isolated and seen as weird or whatever.
Next time I hear a hint for grandbrats I'll ask my mother if she truly wants me to be happy. I have to see if guilt tripping works both ways.

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"Don't you know how to deal with children?!"
"I don't like animals who act on instinct."
I think you're on to something Akihiko.