GER: man gave his gf an abortion-pudding

I would like to “report” an interesting case in GER.
http://www.nordbayern.de/region/nuernberg/nurnberg-freund-mischte-schwangerer-abtreibungsmittel-unter-1.5115480
http://www.focus.de/regional/nuernberg/weil-er-das-kind-nicht-wollte-mann-soll-schwanger-mit-pudding-vergiftet-haben-sie-verlor-das-baby_id_5422404.html

A 23yo man started dating a 28yo woman.
They were together only for a couple of weeks.
Condom broke during sex, the woman took the morning-after pill.
The pill didn’t work, she became pregnant and decided to keep it.
(-> That’s what she told the court.)
The guy was against it, he wanted her to get an abortion, she refused.

He pretended to agree with her and stayed with her.
He bought RU-486 * online
*”Mifepristone, also known as RU-486, is a medication typically used with misoprostol
to bring about an abortion. This combination is more than 95% effective during the first
50 days of pregnancy. It is also effective in the second trimester of pregnancy.”

He made her a pudding with it. After she ate the pudding, she started bleeding.
She had to be taken to hospital. She lost the fetus at 15th week and had to have a surgery.
He is charged with unlawful termination of pregnancy and grievous bodily harm.
He faces up to three years in prison.

To sum it up - two wrongs don't make a right.

The language in the articles is interesting. Terms like baybee and chyld are being used
to describe a fetus at 15th week.

Huh. Should've wrapped it up if he didn't want a kid.


eta: he did, what a mess. We really need a male birth control pill.

______________________________________________________
Someday we'll look back on this moment and plow into a parked car.

Evan Davis

The condom broke though. Ugh, when the fertile do it with strangers. Eeeek

Vasectomy is more effective than condoms. Just sayin'.

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kittehpeoples
Vasectomy is more effective than condoms. Just sayin'.

This is exactly what I was thinking. He should've had it snipped.

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mumofsixbirds

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kittehpeoples
Vasectomy is more effective than condoms. Just sayin'.

This is exactly what I was thinking. He should've had it snipped.

I think I've mentioned my best friend, a PNB, and her well-raised, smart, well-behaved daughter. Daughter has recently said she doesn't think she wants kids. My friend is totally supportive of her decision, and I've told her she'll take a lot of flak but that I and Mr. kittehpeoples will always be there to support her. Part of our support included Mr. kp telling her about how easy his vasectomy was and how he chatted with the doctor during the procedure. She was pretty amazed that it was painless, quick, and easy, and hopefully it really assured her that any guy who refuses to get one on the grounds that it'll hurt or be physically traumatic is full of bullshit.

Vasectomies all around!

I bet he is one of those early twenty somethings who would balk at getting snipped, saying he may change his mind in ten years. Men want to screw around when they are really young, escape any offspring, and then have "legitimate kids" when they marry.

I don't think men should be forced to get vasectomies to avoid parenthood when women have non-permanent options. We need more male contraceptive options.

I hope this doesn't lead to the prosecution of websites like womenonweb, which provides this pill to countries where it's not available...

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tea princess
I hope this doesn't lead to the prosecution of websites like womenonweb, which provides this pill to countries where it's not available...

That depends on where the website is located and the national laws of that country. If I had a website like that, I'd look for the most pro-abortion country I could find, and register it there.

As a pro-choice woman, I am appalled. The man is definitely in the wrong and should be prosecuted.
He basically contaminated her food. That's wrong on many levels.
If she wants the child that's fine, but he has no right to act as though he's cool with it and then sabotage her food.

Guess I see two sides to this...
One, they agree beforehand what happens in the case of a pregnasty. Then if it happens they follow through with what was decided.
Problem with this is I know of men who've had to drag women to the abortion clinic because the women changed their mind after the fact.
And plenty of women who agree with their target on everything he says to oops him. Same thing men often do to get laid, agree with everything a woman says. That isn't fair to the agreement. Then again, did he wrap it up? Because if he didn't then dragging a woman to the clinic is taking away choice.

Two, this situation does sound appalling. But we don't know what really happened. It is possible she willingly took the RU-486 and then had remorse later? Also, she already had taken the morning after pill and when that didn't work she decided to keep it? Sounds suspicious.

Way too many people put themselves in this situation, treat it casually and then see the end-result clearly and panic. Sure hope he gets a vasectomy!

I think the term casual sex is a contradiction except in the case of a sex professional. A person can't have casual sex and know what is going to happen in the case of pregnancy or STDs without lots of trust. There is always a danger of one or both. Condoms break. People lie about sterilization. I know people who've had famblee members poke holes in their condoms and have had vasectomy baybeez. This requires a more than casual conversation as well. And if you have lots of trust for the other person it isn't casual sex in the first place. And I'd bet there is more than one sex professional who has wanted a baybee, seen a target she perceives as perfect and decided to accidentally get pregnant.

Or maybe I just have trust issues. But at least I've never had a disease or a walking 'miracul!!!!!!' nightmare to deal with for 18 plus years.

How much you wanna bet this guy whined bout using condoms cuz they "don't feel as good", fucking moron

Why so much speculation on his lack of responsibility and not wearing a condom? It says right in the original post that he did, and it broke.

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mrs. chinaski
Condom broke during sex, the woman took the morning-after pill.

You don't even have to follow the link to get that information. This is a man who was trying to prevent pregnancy using the only non-permanent option available to him (short of abstinance).

I don't understand one thing:
She said she took the morning-after pill and it didn't work (success rate of the pill is 95-97%).
However, when HE gave her a pill, it did work 100% even when it was so late in the pignasty (15 weeks).

She gave an interview to the biggest newspaper in GER. The title was
"My ex boyfriend killed our baybee"

The facts are: he knew her only couple of weeks, he used condom and they agreed on no baybee policy.
I don't understand why she was so eager to become a single moo.

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mrs. chinaski
The facts are: he knew her only couple of weeks, he used condom and they agreed on no baybee policy.
I don't understand why she was so eager to become a single moo.

She was probably out to stick him with a kid from the start as a brilliant scheme to make him stay with her. Because we all know how well that works.

If she was serious about not getting knocked up, she would have been on the pill.

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yurble
Why so much speculation on his lack of responsibility and not wearing a condom? It says right in the original post that he did, and it broke.

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mrs. chinaski
Condom broke during sex, the woman took the morning-after pill.

You don't even have to follow the link to get that information. This is a man who was trying to prevent pregnancy using the only non-permanent option available to him (short of abstinance).

Yes, this. Jesus Christ, the post wasn't even that long so it's kind of hard to miss the part where it said the condom broke. I don't always agree to the sentiments that he should just get a vasectomy because that's intended to be a permanent option and I don't know about countries with a variation on NHS, but reversals aren't covered by insurance in the USA.

This case is less of the man wanting to fuck irresponsibly sans consequences and more of an illustration why there needs to be more non-permanent BC options for men. As appalling as his actions were, he was about to be saddled with a child he didn't want at 23 and he did the only part he could have in preventing pregnancy (wearing the condom). The entire course of his life was being held at the whims of somebody changing their mind from the previous agreement.

He definitely deserves some prison time because from what I understand, taking RU-486 isn't a cakewalk and is actually pretty painful.

------------------------------------------------------------
"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

I was being somewhat facetious with my "vasectomy is more effective than condoms" comment. The guy's willing to deceptively assault somebody. He shouldn't be breeding. And imo, MOST people who breed shouldn't be breeding. So yes, in most cases, I would advocate vasectomy over condoms.

That said, though, yes, it's a nightmare for guys who do everything they can to prevent pregnancy and it fails. What he did is obviously not the answer, and I'm guessing/hoping he'll be paying for that. But I agree that men need more recourse in these situations, at least in the US-- I'm not sure what options men have elsewhere. I do know guys are pretty legally screwed in the US if he doesn't want the baby and she does. He's on the hook whether he wanted to be there or not, whether he tried to prevent the pregnancy or not. And callous as this may sound, I really understand why there are so many "deadbeat dads."

But shit like this? Secretly drugging her? This guy's an asshole.

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mrs. chinaski
I don't understand one thing:
She said she took the morning-after pill and it didn't work (success rate of the pill is 95-97%).
However, when HE gave her a pill, it did work 100% even when it was so late in the pignasty (15 weeks).

Given her attitude, I have my doubts that she took the morning after pill. However, the morning after pill does not induce abortion, it prevents ovulation. If the woman has already ovulated, the morning after pill doesn't really help.

He gave her a medical abortion pill, which is used to induce abortion. They are two very different medicines, which work in different ways and are effective for different things. So it is quite plausible that the morning after pill would not work but the medical abortion pill would.

I must have translated it wrong. She took what she was supposed to take (so she says...).
She had to buy the pill in pharmacy and they advise you what to take.

I found a new info: He offered her 11k EUR for an abortion. She declined.

He broke up with her via phone message in the same night she came to hospital.
Her mother found it weird, she advised the daughter to go to police.
Police secured the blood samples and an analysis revealed traces of RU-486 in the blood.

Sounds like a crappy situation all around. The guy used a condom and when that failed, the woman used plan B and that failed too. Obviously neither of them wanted a loaf, so WHY did she want to keep it? I will never understand these women who will do various things (preventive and otherwise) to keep from getting pregnant and then decide to stay pregnant when everything fucking fails. If you're on the pill, use condoms and the morning-after pill, it seems pretty clear you're trying to not get pregnant. For some extreme examples of such shit, check out abortion survivor stories (people who survived saline abortions and their mothers decided to give birth because surviving the abortion was a "miracle").

What the guy did was wrong. Forcing abortion on someone is as bad as forcing birth on them because you're taking their choice away in either case, but I also realize it was an act of desperation. You know plenty of men out there have at least entertained the thought of doing this very thing when their girlfriends presented them with an unplanned, unwanted positive piss test. I do feel bad for the guy because he was responsible about sex (which is more than what most men do) and still got fucked over, but that's not a reason to endanger the woman's life. Some men refuse to become fathers (and use varying degrees of protection, from none at all to condoms) and will run for the hills while a small handful will take matters into their own hands by sneaking their girlfriends RU-486, beating the fetus out of them or murdering them in very extreme cases. This is why this shit has to be discussed before conception occurs, not after.

I did a little reading because I always thought RU-486 could only be used up to 8 weeks gestation. I was mistaken. Turns out it can be used all the way up to 20 weeks (and even later if the clump is dead and has to come out). I guess it's just that after that 8-week mark, the risk of complications increases, and according to info from Women on Waves, using RU-486 at 15 weeks or more carries a particularly high risk because the abortion becomes similar to inducing birth due to how far along the woman is.

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mrs. chinaski
I must have translated it wrong. She took what she was supposed to take (so she says...).
She had to buy the pill in pharmacy and they advise you what to take.

I found a new info: He offered her 11k EUR for an abortion. She declined.

He broke up with her via phone message in the same night she came to hospital.
Her mother found it weird, she advised the daughter to go to police.
Police secured the blood samples and an analysis revealed traces of RU-486 in the blood.

I did not read the original article, but this still doesn't show any inconsistency. The morning after pill is levonorgestrel and it works by preventing ovulation. Mifepristone/RU-486 is used after pregnacy to induce a miscarriage.

It's possible that she may have lied about taking the morning after pill, but it's not medically implausible that she told the truth.

The common after-pills in GER are:
PiDaNa®“ - active substance Levonorgestrel
„ellaOne®“ - active substance Ulipristalacetet

I looked into it and you are right.
The after pill doesn't work 1. shortly before ovulation
2. when ovulation already occured.
I didn't know that.

That being said, I took the after-pill several times and I never got inpig.
I used to know other women who took the after-pill, I've never
heard of anyone who would become inpig. Not even "friend of the friend".

It looks like the RU-486 is the most reliable "after-pill" ever.

Nobody takes RU 486 just because a condom breaks. That's going a little far with the hyperbole.
The morning after pill is a large dose of normal birth control hormones, there may be a touch of nausea, and possibly irregular menstrual timing because of it.
RU 486 will make you sick and in pain and your uterus will turn itself inside out(that's my hyperbole) expelling anything in there. Don't take it lightly, I'm still not sure the difference is apparent...
And with potentially increased troll traffic due to idiots postnatally aborting living children, I think everyone should be clear on the difference.

Update:
http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article156920232/Wenn-im-Dessert-die-Abtreibung-versteckt-ist.html

He was sentenced to 3 years and 3 months imprisonment.